My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

[nataS@phnet.fi]

I just changed my tires to Moto-x 2,8" , great for tarmac driving. Air shocks sucks in winter, mine broke in sub zero temperatures. I replaced the seals and o-rings , it works but leaks air. Now my bike is again waiting for parts and is just sitting in living room as a collective art piece

Anyone know good (but cheap) coil shock for rear atleast for winter driving?

edit. Oh yeah, i also changed my handlebar to shorter riser bar, i could never get used to that wide bar. Still can´t get the front up to learn do manual but that must be just my lack of skills.

[hoojsn]

I just changed my tires to Moto-x 2,8" , great for tarmac driving. Air shocks sucks in winter, mine broke in sub zero temperatures. I replaced the seals and o-rings , it works but leaks air. Now my bike is again waiting for parts and is just sitting in living room as a collective art piece

Anyone know good (but cheap) coil shock for rear atleast for winter driving?

edit. Oh yeah, i also changed my handlebar to shorter riser bar, i could never get used to that wide bar. Still can´t get the front up to learn do manual but that must be just my lack of skills.

Probably you could find them on Ebay.

[trooper5707]

My opinion, since your use for street commuters, Hard tail plus a nice back rack is much suitable. Tyre Schwalbe Super Moto-X wheel size 27.5' 2.8'. This tyre was build for Ebike on speed 50km/h or 31miles/hr. It suitable for Road and Tarmac purpose.

+1. Unless you have extremely steep hills in your commute, the Ex1 might be overkill and is expensive. It is very well suited for off-road however.

Use a Shimano XT 11-42 (and set the dérailleur limit screw to forbid use of the largest aluminium sprocket) or SRAM 1150 fullpin (XD or the 1130 for Shimano splined freehub).

You might also want to change the stock steel 44T chainring by a 48 or more to reduce the use of the 11T sprocket which has a very hard time handling non-human power. I have several wolftooth barrow wide chainrings incoming (48, 50 and 52T) and will report frame clearance / compatibility asap.

Super moto X 2.8 do fit in the Am1000 (I have them on 35mm wide rims), and if you want a little bit more puncture resistance use their 2.4 variant.

Last, air shocks aren’t as good as spring ones for commute purposes. Their small bump sensitivity isn’t that great.

Thanks everyone for the help! I did go ahead and order last night, the EX-1 was just a few hundred more. As much as this purchase was, I'll go ahead and contact Ivy about spending the $$$ for the suspension upgrade too. I am FL based, so sub-zero temps are not a big issue normally, but may as well do it to the hilt.

I do want it to be a street commuter, I live beachfront in Florida, so quite flat, except for one good pull up a bridge to get to work. I am used to rolling in the 40's on my gas powered, holding 30 would be fine. I prob would have been better staying hard tail, but I also don't plan to carry a ton of cargo, rain gear and some basic tools. I pull a trailer with gear to the beach sometimes. I grew up in Washington state in the 80's, we were ripping fenders off old schwinns before mountain bikes were really a thing . I'd like to possibly get back into some trail riding with the e-bike, at 50 years old, I can't ride like I did in my 20's

reduce the use of the 11T sprocket which has a very hard time handling non-human power.

Exactly why the EX-1 is worth the upgrade IMHO - my understanding is it is designed to shift under power and built for power use. My ICE powered bike is a jackshaft setup, so also uses chain drive like a mid engine, and chain/derailer issues have been frequent.

[trooper5707]

Last, air shocks aren’t as good as spring ones for commute purposes. Their small bump sensitivity isn’t that great.

What forks are out there that are coil spring these days?

I found this for the rear:

https://www.sram.com/rockshox/family/super-deluxe-coil

But it seems most of the forks on the market these days are air based, although I did see a coil conversion kit is available.

I was pricing with:

ROCKSHOX RECON 150mm air suspension fork;

ROCKSHOX MONARCH rear suspension;

[Ivanovitch_k]

reduce the use of the 11T sprocket which has a very hard time handling non-human power.

Exactly why the EX-1 is worth the upgrade IMHO - my understanding is it is designed to shift under power and built for power use. My ICE powered bike is a jackshaft setup, so also uses chain drive like a mid engine, and chain/derailer issues have been frequent.

the EX1 has a 10T 11T small sprocket so it'll be even worse in that regard (accelerated wear + skipping under torque).

It's indeed designed to shift under power but with 250/350W 80Nm motors in mind, with the 160Nm of the ultra I would advise against it...

IMO, what the EX1 excels at is gear difference between speeds, 10-50T 11-48T and only 8 sprockets gets you a ~30% jump per cog which translates to less shifting than with a 11S cassette. Plus all sprockets are steel so there is no risk to bend them at peak torque (most likely off road). The chain is stronger too, but it's quite deceiving as the EX1 chain is not 8S but 10S reinforced.

For commuting and a little offroad, I think the PG 1150 is the most versatile, especially when paired with a 2-downshift / 3-4 upshift at once like the Shimano 11S XTR shifters. A tougher but less polyvalent solution would be the ultra cheap 9S shimano cassettes & KMC X9E ebike chains.

Anyhow, the EX1 is still a very good setup, but I fear the 50T 48T end will get very little use. It's good to know is that the lower 3 sprockets on the EX1 are available as a spare kit from sram for $30-40 (vs 300+ for the whole cassette).

Regarding good coil shocks I don't really know the SRAM offer as I got myself a Fox DHX2 on sale, that's probably way overkill for the task tho ! For the fork it doesn't matter as much and a good air one will do.

[trooper5707]

Hmm, I am reading it as 11/48 unless I am missing something?

https://ebike-mtb.com/en/sram-ex1-revie ... in-e-mtbs/


Thanks for all the great info!

[Ivanovitch_k]

Hmm, I am reading it as 11/48 unless I am missing something?

https://ebike-mtb.com/en/sram-ex1-revie ... in-e-mtbs/

snap, you're right, had eagle 12S range in my mind ! Edited the post.
But anyways, 11T is still very small even a bbs02 can make it skip in no time :'(

[garyal1]

About battery holder issue you mentioned, I think that's because this is really a big and heavy battery, and we think the battery holder design is not strong enough and perfect.
What we are doing try to make it more stable as following:
We found the lock core is not long enough to hold the battery. the original one is in golden, we customize a longer one to use now.
IMG_20180608_122249.jpg

And there is some slight gap between battery and the holder, we put one 2 piece of 3M gel to make it holder better and no move. it will be more stable then.
IMG_20180608_122240.jpg

If anyone need some help or support from us, please feel free ask.

I have a Frey Bike on Oder, should be ready to ship soon. I just wanted to thank you for responding to this issue of loose battery. It makes me confident to see Frey responding and I will try the gel tape if needed. I am a firm believer in this tape.

However, I just want to share with you, in an effort to contribute: I have three OTHER ebikes with this exact same battery system by Reention. I have 4 batteries I swap around between all three bikes, 11.4AH x1 20.4 AH x1 17.4 AH x2. None of these batteries are loose in any other of these three bikes that all run 75% off-road. This is also one reason I ordered the AM1000 with Ex-1 so all batteries I own fit all bikes. In my humble opinion as a 62 year old engineer, I would suggest reviewing the dimensions of the machined out section of the rectangular downtube. A few mm too large on this opening when it is machined, will certainly cause a loose battery situation on rougher routes. Again, just trying to help FREY!

[Richard N]

My interest is largely in a commuter bike, it was the G510 and price which led me to the Frey. Meaning, I don't really need a FS bike, but the Frey is good value, so it stays on my short list for now.

My question: Does Frey have any intention of releasing a hardtail MTB that uses the G510?

[Ivanovitch_k]

my 2 cts:

commuting at ebike speeds on an hardtail can be done but potholes and rough roads are more than a discomfort.

suspension seatposts and wide, low pressure tires do help but when you roll over a bad pothole at 40+ kph you understand why all other 2-wheel motor vehicles have rear suspensions. That is, if you don't get ejected OTB or damage a rim...

Yes, it's more expensive and maintenance-heavy but I wouldn't say that a FS commuter ebike is a "nice to have" thing, IMO it's more a "must have & safer" feature.

[trooper5707]

I agree, my gas powered is hard tail, mostly due to engine configuration a full suspension is very tough. I ride it at the 60+ KPH and I do think a full suspension would be a plus.

I realize you may not see many Harley's in France, but I've also owned a "hard tail" motor cycle, and it is really something to ride!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSCCDXP6SE0

Looking forward to the FS AM 1000!

[Tom L]

This is my first full suspension ebike. It’s like night and day compared to my hardtail. Really smooth ride and the larger wheels make gutters a breeze.

[Hillhater]

My interest is largely in a commuter bike, it was the G510 and price which led me to the Frey. Meaning, I don't really need a FS bike, but the Frey is good value, so it stays on my short list for now.

My question: Does Frey have any intention of releasing a hardtail MTB that uses the G510?

If it is just a mid drive commuter bike you want, there are many available from manufacturers such a Risen (who make the Frey)
http://www.risenbicycle.com/supplier-22 ... ctric-bike
Ouka. http://www.ouka-ebike.com/bafang-mm-g51 ... 03472.html
And many others.
Various drive power , voltages, types, etc etc are offered..
Google is your friend

[Mantsos]

I got the good news from Ivy! My frey am1000 bike is ready to ship, yay!

[Jebu]

@FREYebikes

We need a shield for the motor!

We need to protect the motor with something

[Paikan]

Hello:
I´am reding this post since two months and I ordered two AM1000 from Frey (One for a friend and one for me).
As Mantsos, I received today the photos of one of my bicycles:







Ivy tell me that today they will install front light and tomorrow will be the day they sent to me the two bikes...
Perhaps tomorrow they will sent a plane full of bicycles
Next week see you here again with the AM1000
Best regards

[Mantsos]

Haha, we have almost similar bikes! Lets hope we get this bikes in the next week.

[Tom L]

How to run lights that draw more than 500mA @ 6V and have them controlled from the Bafang handlebar control pad. This modification is capable of supplying the full battery voltage at 2.5A.

1) Remove the battery. IMPORTANT!
2) Remove the three screws holding the plastic cover above the motor.
3) Remove the chain ring and protector.
4) Unbolt the 3 motor mount nuts.
5) Punch out the three mounting bolts, making sure the spider and peddle crank arm are out of the way (on the opposite side). Really, check this twice!



I dropped the motor onto a spool of speaker wire so it did not drop all the way to the floor but still had to cut the cable ties on the swing arm going to the speed sensor.

6) Construct the following circuit:



A third set of hands (real or mechanical) are needed (see first picture).

If you dont include the resistor the lights will turn on with the handlebar switch but wont turn off unless you turn off the power.
The polyfuse is a wise precaution in case of shorts.

7) Heatshrink the leads and MOSFET:





7A) Replace the battery and test the lights.

9) Remove the battery again. IMPORTANT!

10) Carefully put the motor back in place, ensuring you do not crush any wires or parts.

11) Screw the plastic plate back in place above the motor.

12) Reassemble the chainring.

That's it. I'm only up to step 10 as it is a bit tricky to get the bolts back in place and I have run out of daylight. But the lights are operating via the handlebar control.

[Richard N]

my 2 cts:

commuting at ebike speeds on an hardtail can be done but potholes and rough roads are more than a discomfort.

suspension seatposts and wide, low pressure tires do help but when you roll over a bad pothole at 40+ kph you understand why all other 2-wheel motor vehicles have rear suspensions. That is, if you don't get ejected OTB or damage a rim...

Yes, it's more expensive and maintenance-heavy but I wouldn't say that a FS commuter ebike is a "nice to have" thing, IMO it's more a "must have & safer" feature.

You're right. Even at speeds less than 40, 32 here, which I'd observe, you're right, but racks and bags are so much easier on a hardtail.

Hey! Maybe I can get "special deal" on an AM1000, you know, for prototyping purposes, to make a rear rack that doesn't mount to the swingarm.

[Baron]

Do you know the max amps you can safely program the controller to? and what the motor can safely handle. I vaguely remember the bbshd to be perfectly capable up to 40amps, but you might need an external controller for that? Looking at the lunacycle breakdown video, the ultra seems to be a good bit larger than the bbshd. metal gear in the ultra vs nylon in the hd?

When you ride over big bumps that could hit the bottom of the bike, does the motor ever get hit and are you worried it could damage the motor?

Is the motor louder or quieter than the bbshd? does the metal gear make it louder?

[Cruncher123]

How to run lights that draw more than 500mA @ 6V and have them controlled from the Bafang handlebar control pad. This modification is capable of supplying the full battery voltage at 2.5A.

1) Remove the battery. IMPORTANT!
2) Remove the three screws holding the plastic cover above the motor.
3) Remove the chain ring and protector.
4) Unbolt the 3 motor mount nuts.
5) Punch out the three mounting bolts, making sure the spider and peddle crank arm are out of the way (on the opposite side). Really, check this twice!



I dropped the motor onto a spool of speaker wire so it did not drop all the way to the floor but still had to cut the cable ties on the swing arm going to the speed sensor.

6) Construct the following circuit:



A third set of hands (real or mechanical) are needed (see first picture).

If you dont include the resistor the lights will turn on with the handlebar switch but wont turn off unless you turn off the power.
The polyfuse is a wise precaution in case of shorts.

7) Heatshrink the leads and MOSFET:





7A) Replace the battery and test the lights.

9) Remove the battery again. IMPORTANT!

10) Carefully put the motor back in place, ensuring you do not crush any wires or parts.

11) Screw the plastic plate back in place above the motor.

12) Reassemble the chainring.

That's it. I'm only up to step 10 as it is a bit tricky to get the bolts back in place and I have run out of daylight. But the lights are operating via the handlebar control.

Excellent post. Thank you

[nataS@phnet.fi]

Thanks for the light post, excellent! I have to take the motor down so might do this same time.

[Ivanovitch_k]

nice & simple light hack !

question for those who installed a dropper / changed the post.

How was the fitting in the downtube ? I have a 31.6 thomson post and I can clearly feel it loose /rattling when the QR isn't tight. On other frames this does not happen, i.e. the post can be slided in / out but without any lateral play.

On the Frey, I needed to screw the QR clamp very tight to avoid slipage (even with a non-greased install).


edit:

turns out this is a no-no for a seat post. It should not rattle at all when the clamp is not tight, otherwise the post will rock back and forth in the tube below the clamped area, in the long run it might crack the seat tube. Ivy -and the product page- assured me this was a 31.6mm. It is not. Might turn out ok with a 31.8 but there are much less posts made in that size. And I don't want (or should have to) play with shims on a new frame.

The tolerances on this frame really are not great

[Tom L]

I have a set of digital callipers at home. I'll measure the ID of the seat post down tube tonight.

Also regarding the light modification, it has an unexpected "feature".

The lights activate when the e-brake levers are pulled. Not sure if this is normal behaviour or not but as my rear light is activating (as well as the front) it is acting as a brake light. I quite like it.

It would be nice to confirm if this is normal behaviour though. Could someone with an unmodified light cable check what the voltage is on the headlamp cable when:

1) the light is off (according to the display)
2) either of the brake levers is pulled.

[Ivanovitch_k]

Could someone with an unmodified light cable check what the voltage is[...]

Have you tried using the second light connector (I listed them a few posts back ) ? I think one is always on (when display is set on) and another is enabled / goes higher voltage on braking. I will play around with a test setup tomorrow.

I have a set of digital callipers at home. I'll measure the ID of the seat post down tube tonight.

Thanks, I await the results eagerly.

I also happen to have a very good industrial digital caliper that I keep calibrated against grade 0 standard gauges (+0.05 µm).

To measure tubes I.D. the proper tool would be a bore micrometer (with a caliper you never know if you are measuring the true diameter or a string of the circle) but we can get close enough by getting the O.D. and subtracting the wall thicknesses at the points of contact. This does adds up the uncertainty error of each measurement but with a reasonable tool this is ok-ish.

I did so and got 37.63-(2.71+2.83) = 32.09 mm. which is somewhat coherent with a 31.8 post but totally unacceptable for a 31.6 one.

A quote from another forum states:

Typically, posts are spec'd to be 0.2mm under the nominal inner diameter of the seat tube. For instance, an imperial Columbus SL seat tube has a nominal outer diameter of 28.6mm and a nominal wall thickness of 0.6mm at the post end, which results in a nominal inner diameter of 27.4mm. The standard post diameter for an SL frame is 27.2mm. source

So, I pushed the experiment a bit further and verified the fit using soda can shims stack. Most cans have a very precise 0.10mm thickness (0.097mm is the industry standard).



here is what we start with, the frey claimed as 31.6 with a thomson elite 31.6 and a radon zr team 30.9 retrofited with a 30.9 Suntour NCX (the radon is a taiwan-made frame assembled in germany, the frame itself cost ~150eur).


In both cases, I applied force to push the tube back and concentrate the gap on one side. As per the previous quote, we should expect a max gap of 0.1mm on each side, hence 0.2mm total.







On the Frey I need a stack of 5 shims (hence 0.50mm gap) to stop the rocking. And even like that this is still not a snug fit.




On the radon frame, I can only insert 2 shims, the second with force. Doing so is enough to hold the post in the tube with no clamp at all even though both are greased... 2 shims are 0.20mm which is on par with the industry-standard tolerances stated before.



So, the Frey is clearly out of spec by ~+0.3mm..

It might seems a small error but posts are made in 0.2mm increments for a specific reason and seat tubes must be matched precisely to avoid slip & damages.

Pinging Ivy about that, we'll see...

But If you're the kind of meticulous person as I am this is very infuriating (that plus the head tube's jammed-in, non-reamed, non-faced, non-greased bearing cups). Especially when you take into consideration the not-to-be-disclosed-but-very-EU/NA-price-tag on the frame set...