My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

[garyal1]

About battery holder issue you mentioned, I think that's because this is really a big and heavy battery, and we think the battery holder design is not strong enough and perfect.
What we are doing try to make it more stable as following:
We found the lock core is not long enough to hold the battery. the original one is in golden, we customize a longer one to use now.
IMG_20180608_122249.jpg

And there is some slight gap between battery and the holder, we put one 2 piece of 3M gel to make it holder better and no move. it will be more stable then.
IMG_20180608_122240.jpg

If anyone need some help or support from us, please feel free ask.

I have a Frey Bike on Oder, should be ready to ship soon. I just wanted to thank you for responding to this issue of loose battery. It makes me confident to see Frey responding and I will try the gel tape if needed. I am a firm believer in this tape.

However, I just want to share with you, in an effort to contribute: I have three OTHER ebikes with this exact same battery system by Reention. I have 4 batteries I swap around between all three bikes, 11.4AH x1 20.4 AH x1 17.4 AH x2. None of these batteries are loose in any other of these three bikes that all run 75% off-road. This is also one reason I ordered the AM1000 with Ex-1 so all batteries I own fit all bikes. In my humble opinion as a 62 year old engineer, I would suggest reviewing the dimensions of the machined out section of the rectangular downtube. A few mm too large on this opening when it is machined, will certainly cause a loose battery situation on rougher routes. Again, just trying to help FREY!

[Richard N]

My interest is largely in a commuter bike, it was the G510 and price which led me to the Frey. Meaning, I don't really need a FS bike, but the Frey is good value, so it stays on my short list for now.

My question: Does Frey have any intention of releasing a hardtail MTB that uses the G510?

[Ivanovitch_k]

my 2 cts:

commuting at ebike speeds on an hardtail can be done but potholes and rough roads are more than a discomfort.

suspension seatposts and wide, low pressure tires do help but when you roll over a bad pothole at 40+ kph you understand why all other 2-wheel motor vehicles have rear suspensions. That is, if you don't get ejected OTB or damage a rim...

Yes, it's more expensive and maintenance-heavy but I wouldn't say that a FS commuter ebike is a "nice to have" thing, IMO it's more a "must have & safer" feature.

[trooper5707]

I agree, my gas powered is hard tail, mostly due to engine configuration a full suspension is very tough. I ride it at the 60+ KPH and I do think a full suspension would be a plus.

I realize you may not see many Harley's in France, but I've also owned a "hard tail" motor cycle, and it is really something to ride!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSCCDXP6SE0

Looking forward to the FS AM 1000!

[Tom L]

This is my first full suspension ebike. It’s like night and day compared to my hardtail. Really smooth ride and the larger wheels make gutters a breeze.

[Hillhater]

My interest is largely in a commuter bike, it was the G510 and price which led me to the Frey. Meaning, I don't really need a FS bike, but the Frey is good value, so it stays on my short list for now.

My question: Does Frey have any intention of releasing a hardtail MTB that uses the G510?

If it is just a mid drive commuter bike you want, there are many available from manufacturers such a Risen (who make the Frey)
http://www.risenbicycle.com/supplier-22 ... ctric-bike
Ouka. http://www.ouka-ebike.com/bafang-mm-g51 ... 03472.html
And many others.
Various drive power , voltages, types, etc etc are offered..
Google is your friend

[FREYebikes]

Hi friends!
A news to share with you here!
We are having a new FS bike come with Bafang M500/600 system for who want to get a lighter mountain bike.
You can have a look at
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=92237&p=1387431#p1387431
And any of your commends, inquiry are welcome!

[Mantsos]

I got the good news from Ivy! My frey am1000 bike is ready to ship, yay!

[Jebu]

@FREYebikes

We need a shield for the motor!

We need to protect the motor with something

[Paikan]

Hello:
I´am reding this post since two months and I ordered two AM1000 from Frey (One for a friend and one for me).
As Mantsos, I received today the photos of one of my bicycles:







Ivy tell me that today they will install front light and tomorrow will be the day they sent to me the two bikes...
Perhaps tomorrow they will sent a plane full of bicycles
Next week see you here again with the AM1000
Best regards

[Mantsos]

Haha, we have almost similar bikes! Lets hope we get this bikes in the next week.

[Tom L]

How to run lights that draw more than 500mA @ 6V and have them controlled from the Bafang handlebar control pad. This modification is capable of supplying the full battery voltage at 2.5A.

1) Remove the battery. IMPORTANT!
2) Remove the three screws holding the plastic cover above the motor.
3) Remove the chain ring and protector.
4) Unbolt the 3 motor mount nuts.
5) Punch out the three mounting bolts, making sure the spider and peddle crank arm are out of the way (on the opposite side). Really, check this twice!



I dropped the motor onto a spool of speaker wire so it did not drop all the way to the floor but still had to cut the cable ties on the swing arm going to the speed sensor.

6) Construct the following circuit:



A third set of hands (real or mechanical) are needed (see first picture).

If you dont include the resistor the lights will turn on with the handlebar switch but wont turn off unless you turn off the power.
The polyfuse is a wise precaution in case of shorts.

7) Heatshrink the leads and MOSFET:





7A) Replace the battery and test the lights.

9) Remove the battery again. IMPORTANT!

10) Carefully put the motor back in place, ensuring you do not crush any wires or parts.

11) Screw the plastic plate back in place above the motor.

12) Reassemble the chainring.

That's it. I'm only up to step 10 as it is a bit tricky to get the bolts back in place and I have run out of daylight. But the lights are operating via the handlebar control.

[Richard N]

my 2 cts:

commuting at ebike speeds on an hardtail can be done but potholes and rough roads are more than a discomfort.

suspension seatposts and wide, low pressure tires do help but when you roll over a bad pothole at 40+ kph you understand why all other 2-wheel motor vehicles have rear suspensions. That is, if you don't get ejected OTB or damage a rim...

Yes, it's more expensive and maintenance-heavy but I wouldn't say that a FS commuter ebike is a "nice to have" thing, IMO it's more a "must have & safer" feature.

You're right. Even at speeds less than 40, 32 here, which I'd observe, you're right, but racks and bags are so much easier on a hardtail.

Hey! Maybe I can get "special deal" on an AM1000, you know, for prototyping purposes, to make a rear rack that doesn't mount to the swingarm.

[Baron]

Do you know the max amps you can safely program the controller to? and what the motor can safely handle. I vaguely remember the bbshd to be perfectly capable up to 40amps, but you might need an external controller for that? Looking at the lunacycle breakdown video, the ultra seems to be a good bit larger than the bbshd. metal gear in the ultra vs nylon in the hd?

When you ride over big bumps that could hit the bottom of the bike, does the motor ever get hit and are you worried it could damage the motor?

Is the motor louder or quieter than the bbshd? does the metal gear make it louder?

[Cruncher123]

How to run lights that draw more than 500mA @ 6V and have them controlled from the Bafang handlebar control pad. This modification is capable of supplying the full battery voltage at 2.5A.

1) Remove the battery. IMPORTANT!
2) Remove the three screws holding the plastic cover above the motor.
3) Remove the chain ring and protector.
4) Unbolt the 3 motor mount nuts.
5) Punch out the three mounting bolts, making sure the spider and peddle crank arm are out of the way (on the opposite side). Really, check this twice!



I dropped the motor onto a spool of speaker wire so it did not drop all the way to the floor but still had to cut the cable ties on the swing arm going to the speed sensor.

6) Construct the following circuit:



A third set of hands (real or mechanical) are needed (see first picture).

If you dont include the resistor the lights will turn on with the handlebar switch but wont turn off unless you turn off the power.
The polyfuse is a wise precaution in case of shorts.

7) Heatshrink the leads and MOSFET:





7A) Replace the battery and test the lights.

9) Remove the battery again. IMPORTANT!

10) Carefully put the motor back in place, ensuring you do not crush any wires or parts.

11) Screw the plastic plate back in place above the motor.

12) Reassemble the chainring.

That's it. I'm only up to step 10 as it is a bit tricky to get the bolts back in place and I have run out of daylight. But the lights are operating via the handlebar control.

Excellent post. Thank you

[nataS@phnet.fi]

Thanks for the light post, excellent! I have to take the motor down so might do this same time.

[Ivanovitch_k]

nice & simple light hack !

question for those who installed a dropper / changed the post.

How was the fitting in the downtube ? I have a 31.6 thomson post and I can clearly feel it loose /rattling when the QR isn't tight. On other frames this does not happen, i.e. the post can be slided in / out but without any lateral play.

On the Frey, I needed to screw the QR clamp very tight to avoid slipage (even with a non-greased install).


edit:

turns out this is a no-no for a seat post. It should not rattle at all when the clamp is not tight, otherwise the post will rock back and forth in the tube below the clamped area, in the long run it might crack the seat tube. Ivy -and the product page- assured me this was a 31.6mm. It is not. Might turn out ok with a 31.8 but there are much less posts made in that size. And I don't want (or should have to) play with shims on a new frame.

The tolerances on this frame really are not great

[Tom L]

I have a set of digital callipers at home. I'll measure the ID of the seat post down tube tonight.

Also regarding the light modification, it has an unexpected "feature".

The lights activate when the e-brake levers are pulled. Not sure if this is normal behaviour or not but as my rear light is activating (as well as the front) it is acting as a brake light. I quite like it.

It would be nice to confirm if this is normal behaviour though. Could someone with an unmodified light cable check what the voltage is on the headlamp cable when:

1) the light is off (according to the display)
2) either of the brake levers is pulled.

[Ivanovitch_k]

Could someone with an unmodified light cable check what the voltage is[...]

Have you tried using the second light connector (I listed them a few posts back ) ? I think one is always on (when display is set on) and another is enabled / goes higher voltage on braking. I will play around with a test setup tomorrow.

I have a set of digital callipers at home. I'll measure the ID of the seat post down tube tonight.

Thanks, I await the results eagerly.

I also happen to have a very good industrial digital caliper that I keep calibrated against grade 0 standard gauges (+0.05 µm).

To measure tubes I.D. the proper tool would be a bore micrometer (with a caliper you never know if you are measuring the true diameter or a string of the circle) but we can get close enough by getting the O.D. and subtracting the wall thicknesses at the points of contact. This does adds up the uncertainty error of each measurement but with a reasonable tool this is ok-ish.

I did so and got 37.63-(2.71+2.83) = 32.09 mm. which is somewhat coherent with a 31.8 post but totally unacceptable for a 31.6 one.

A quote from another forum states:

Typically, posts are spec'd to be 0.2mm under the nominal inner diameter of the seat tube. For instance, an imperial Columbus SL seat tube has a nominal outer diameter of 28.6mm and a nominal wall thickness of 0.6mm at the post end, which results in a nominal inner diameter of 27.4mm. The standard post diameter for an SL frame is 27.2mm. source

So, I pushed the experiment a bit further and verified the fit using soda can shims stack. Most cans have a very precise 0.10mm thickness (0.097mm is the industry standard).



here is what we start with, the frey claimed as 31.6 with a thomson elite 31.6 and a radon zr team 30.9 retrofited with a 30.9 Suntour NCX (the radon is a taiwan-made frame assembled in germany, the frame itself cost ~150eur).


In both cases, I applied force to push the tube back and concentrate the gap on one side. As per the previous quote, we should expect a max gap of 0.1mm on each side, hence 0.2mm total.







On the Frey I need a stack of 5 shims (hence 0.50mm gap) to stop the rocking. And even like that this is still not a snug fit.




On the radon frame, I can only insert 2 shims, the second with force. Doing so is enough to hold the post in the tube with no clamp at all even though both are greased... 2 shims are 0.20mm which is on par with the industry-standard tolerances stated before.



So, the Frey is clearly out of spec by ~+0.3mm..

It might seems a small error but posts are made in 0.2mm increments for a specific reason and seat tubes must be matched precisely to avoid slip & damages.

Pinging Ivy about that, we'll see...

But If you're the kind of meticulous person as I am this is very infuriating (that plus the head tube's jammed-in, non-reamed, non-faced, non-greased bearing cups). Especially when you take into consideration the not-to-be-disclosed-but-very-EU/NA-price-tag on the frame set...

[Tom L]

I did not have any luck measuring the ID as my callipers couldn't reach past the clamp section. Your idea of measuring the OD and subtracting the wall thickness is a better idea. I'll have another go tonight.

Regarding the light, I used the female connector (from the controller) as it was the one that mated with the male connector on the end of the cable heading up to the handlebars that is terminated with female spade lugs for connection to a light. I'll have a look at the male connector tonight. Though I won't be changing anything as I do not want to drop the motor off again (that was a PITA) and I'm happy with the current operation. I'm just interested to know if it is intended to work that way.

[trooper5707]

Just saw this posted - 25% tariff on ebikes - I read it open for comment until July 31, I am fairly sure mine should get here before then, but wow.

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industr ... ypJzKdKhPZ

[FREYebikes]

Hi, one point confirm to all friends, some maybe confused earlier about the seat tube.
Now on 2018 AM1000 the precise matching diameter of seat post is 31.8mm, it can be compatible to 31.6mm we tested just tighten the clamp screw by a 6-8N force. please see some photos below:

IMG_20180621_094438.jpg (223.51 KiB) Viewed 2045 times

We realize why now so few good electric mountain bike manufacturer in China. there are several difficulties to many company.
One main reason is good knowledge and experience on mountain bike design, developing and manufacturing.
The other main reason is the chain supply on mountain bike line is not completely. we plan to make the bike with a matching 30.9mm or 31.6mm seat post, but most of frame manufacturers even no this 2 size seat tube to match which is international standard to mountain bike seat post. As we learnt, only Giant use 31.6mm size seat tube. this is very strange.
It means if we would like to do these 2 size, we can only make the material by ourselves.
It means more works should be done by ourselves and we need to make more specific design and developing next and in the future in order to make the bike better and better.

Could someone with an unmodified light cable check what the voltage is[...]

Have you tried using the second light connector (I listed them a few posts back ) ? I think one is always on (when display is set on) and another is enabled / goes higher voltage on braking. I will play around with a test setup tomorrow.

I have a set of digital callipers at home. I'll measure the ID of the seat post down tube tonight.

Thanks, I await the results eagerly.

I also happen to have a very good industrial digital caliper that I keep calibrated against grade 0 standard gauges (+0.05 µm).

To measure tubes I.D. the proper tool would be a bore micrometer (with a caliper you never know if you are measuring the true diameter or a string of the circle) but we can get close enough by getting the O.D. and subtracting the wall thicknesses at the points of contact. This does adds up the uncertainty error of each measurement but with a reasonable tool this is ok-ish.

I did so and got 37.63-(2.71+2.83) = 32.09 mm. which is somewhat coherent with a 31.8 post but totally unacceptable for a 31.6 one.

A quote from another forum states:

Typically, posts are spec'd to be 0.2mm under the nominal inner diameter of the seat tube. For instance, an imperial Columbus SL seat tube has a nominal outer diameter of 28.6mm and a nominal wall thickness of 0.6mm at the post end, which results in a nominal inner diameter of 27.4mm. The standard post diameter for an SL frame is 27.2mm. source

So, I pushed the experiment a bit further and verified the fit using soda can shims stack. Most cans have a very precise 0.10mm thickness (0.097mm is the industry standard).



here is what we start with, the frey claimed as 31.6 with a thomson elite 31.6 and a radon zr team 30.9 retrofited with a 30.9 Suntour NCX (the radon is a taiwan-made frame assembled in germany, the frame itself cost ~150eur).


In both cases, I applied force to push the tube back and concentrate the gap on one side. As per the previous quote, we should expect a max gap of 0.1mm on each side, hence 0.2mm total.







On the Frey I need a stack of 5 shims (hence 0.50mm gap) to stop the rocking. And even like that this is still not a snug fit.




On the radon frame, I can only insert 2 shims, the second with force. Doing so is enough to hold the post in the tube with no clamp at all even though both are greased... 2 shims are 0.20mm which is on par with the industry-standard tolerances stated before.



So, the Frey is clearly out of spec by ~+0.3mm..

It might seems a small error but posts are made in 0.2mm increments for a specific reason and seat tubes must be matched precisely to avoid slip & damages.

Pinging Ivy about that, we'll see...

But If you're the kind of meticulous person as I am this is very infuriating (that plus the head tube's jammed-in, non-reamed, non-faced, non-greased bearing cups). Especially when you take into consideration the not-to-be-disclosed-but-very-EU/NA-price-tag on the frame set...

[Ivanovitch_k]

I have done a small video to showcase the seatpost issue

Hi, one point confirm to all friends, some maybe confused earlier about the seat tube.
Now on 2018 AM1000 the precise matching diameter of seat post is 31.8mm

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

Although, It would have been better to not tell & confirm me it was 31.6 before I ordered

Please make sure the product page is updated to reflect that it is, in fact, 31.8mm and not 31.6. Some people buying droppers could be upset otherwise...

And while I understand that it might be hard to source the proper tubes, this is still a bummer, as IIRC the diameter was already changed on v2018 frame to be more compatible with droppers (someone here complained about non-common size on v2017 version).

Frey should really look into a way to do a common-size (27.2 ; 30.9 ; 31.6 or 34.9) post diameter:
- with -0.0 ; +0.20mm MAX seat tube diameter tolerance,
- tested against a a reputable post, like Thomson.

it can be compatible to 31.6mm we tested just tighten the clamp screw by a 6-8N force. please see some photos below:

Sure, just like one can put a 27.0mm post in a frame designed for 27.2... but if both exists it's for a slew of good reasons.

While torquing the cr*** out of the clamp can likely prevent the post sliding under most conditions, it may not hold true on rough trails / jumps...

Post retention is based on the tubes contact area which needs tight tolerances to be large enough. The clamp action itself is contributing a bit but is not the most important in the fit.

As a smaller post, there is less contact with the inner seat tube surface, the fit relies therefore much more on the clamp itself, which might not be designed to handle the extra load. Plus, some thin-walled posts could also be damaged by the extra clamping force.

Also, on hard braking and accelerations the tube can rock back and forth since the clamp becomes/acts as a pivot point.
Dimensions are exaggerated but this is what happens inside the tube:



In the long run this might cause metal fatigue / creaks...

The solution I have now is to use a cane creek 31.8 shim to 27.2 to use another 27.2 thomson post I have laying around. They do not make one in 31.8 and the only available posts in this size are either entry level or mega-expensive... If it still does not fit well, I will give these shims a try.

As we learnt, only Giant use 31.6mm size seat tube. this is very strange.

? 31.6 is like the most common diameter on MTB ! o_O

check out all these bikes, from big to small brands, they all use 31.6 seat posts: Cannondale, Salsa Cycles, Radon bikes, Commencal, Trek, Cube, the list goes on and on...

if you go to any shop (here bike24, but it is exactly the same on big ones like chainreaction, alltricks...) and look at how many posts they sell by diameter:



you will always see 31.6 as the one with the most choice, followed by 30.9 and 27.2.

here, 31.8mm has only 8 seatposts, vs 264 for 31.6mm !

[fechter]

The shims should work if you get the right size. Thudbuster seat posts have the same issue. There are so many sizes of seat tubes out there it's hard to fit them all. I use shims with my Thudbuster and it's rock solid.

[Ivanovitch_k]

The shims should work if you get the right size. Thudbuster seat posts have the same issue. There are so many sizes of seat tubes out there it's hard to fit them all. I use shims with my Thudbuster and it's rock solid.

They will, but here it's not a post issue, it's a frame spec one.

First frame revs were some odd Ø. Someone here made the remark here after trying to find a suitable dropper.

So Frey changed it to 31.6 on the MY 2018 frame, which is good as it's the most common mtb size.

But I discovered it is in fact 31.8. Which is a very uncommon size. Frey should never have marketed it as 31.6 (and double confirm it to me before sealing the deal).

Now they tell us to go ahead and force clamp 31.6 posts in their frame which, as explained above, is a very bad idea.