My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

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Cruncher123   10 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Cruncher123 » Jun 25 2018 12:47am

Ivy@Frey

Can't contact you via Alibaba - says your email inbox is full

Jebu   10 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Jebu » Jun 25 2018 7:08am

I can't contact either.
And I have serious problems with the rear wheel.
My core and the axis are destroyed.

Image
Last edited by Jebu on Jun 25 2018 8:56am, edited 1 time in total.

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trooper5707   100 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by trooper5707 » Jun 25 2018 8:55am

ouch
Frey AM1000 - Speed Machine
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Home Brew Hub 1000W Hub build
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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Sdmountain » Jun 25 2018 11:59am

Got my 2 AM1000s about week ago one for me one for a friend. Been thrilled with bike thus far. However unfortunately as of this weekend my bike is showing error code 30 and therefore no throttle or PAS. I’ve double checked all my accessible connections, not sure what the next step is. It’s not the display as I was able to swap and rule that out.

Emailed Ivy over the weekend, concerned that you guys aren’t hearing back from her either. Hope she’s okay.
I wonder if there is a backup contact for us Frey owners?

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Jun 25 2018 12:45pm

Using the Alibaba app, I was able to contact her and last weekend (yesterday 25.06.2018) she still replied. Hopefully this eases people on the non-contactability of Ivy.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by fechter » Jun 25 2018 3:08pm

Sdmountain wrote:
Jun 25 2018 11:59am
Got my 2 AM1000s about week ago one for me one for a friend. Been thrilled with bike thus far. However unfortunately as of this weekend my bike is showing error code 30 and therefore no throttle or PAS. I’ve double checked all my accessible connections, not sure what the next step is. It’s not the display as I was able to swap and rule that out.
Error code 30 translates to "Communication Fault". Since you tried a different display, you can probably eliminate that as a cause. Then it would be either a bad connection somewhere between the display connector and the controller board or the comm chip fried. There is a connection inside the motor housing. It's possible if the wire got pulled or just from vibration it may have partially unplugged itself. If the wire is OK and properly plugged into the controller board, then it would point to the comm chip or possibly corrupted software.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Ivanovitch_k   10 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Ivanovitch_k » Jun 25 2018 3:25pm

Jebu wrote:
Jun 25 2018 7:08am
I can't contact either.
She can't be far, I got a message from her yesterday too.
Jebu wrote:
Jun 25 2018 7:08am
And I have serious problems with the rear wheel.
My core and the axis are destroyed.
It's likely those cheap Novatec hubs can't handle the torque of the ultra...

If you can get some money back from frey, you could get yourself some nice DT Swiss wheels.
All their hubs are rated for 400 N.m torque at the pawls / ratchets. And they also have "hybrid" (= ebike) wheels whith everything beefed-up. Those have hubs that go as high as 500N.m !

If I were on a budget I would get the H1900 hybrid wheelset (or just rear), absolutely AAA-class stuff.
Last edited by Ivanovitch_k on Jun 25 2018 3:46pm, edited 1 time in total.
BBS'ed Radon ZR Team 8:
BBS02B 750W - DPC750C - 48V 17.5Ah GA shark - 11 spd 11-40 Shimano XT, 42T N-W Precialps CW, KMC X11e chain, Gearsensor, XT RD, XTR Shifter, F Saint Brake, R XT Brake, RT99 200/160 Discs, magnetic shutoff, DT Swiss X1900 QR9 wheels, Manitou M30 air fork, 2.4" slick balloon schwalbe Super Moto X tires @2 bars, Suntour NCX suspension seatpost, ergon SFC3 saddle, ergon GP3 grips, Supernova M99 Pro + E12 Taillight

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Ivanovitch_k   10 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Ivanovitch_k » Jun 25 2018 3:38pm

fechter wrote:
Jun 25 2018 3:08pm
There is a connection inside the motor housing. It's possible if the wire got pulled or just from vibration it may have partially unplugged itself.
unlikely. If he has a recent (V1.5) motor, the EBUS connector is so close to the next one that it's locking tab is blocked. It can go in but is very hard to unlock, you almost need to pry it / bend the adjacent connector to get it out. Not cool bafang :|

Image

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My hunch would be that the issue is probably outside the motor :?:
BBS'ed Radon ZR Team 8:
BBS02B 750W - DPC750C - 48V 17.5Ah GA shark - 11 spd 11-40 Shimano XT, 42T N-W Precialps CW, KMC X11e chain, Gearsensor, XT RD, XTR Shifter, F Saint Brake, R XT Brake, RT99 200/160 Discs, magnetic shutoff, DT Swiss X1900 QR9 wheels, Manitou M30 air fork, 2.4" slick balloon schwalbe Super Moto X tires @2 bars, Suntour NCX suspension seatpost, ergon SFC3 saddle, ergon GP3 grips, Supernova M99 Pro + E12 Taillight

FREYebikes   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Jun 26 2018 11:18pm

Hi All,

I am always available. I did not realize one of my email full and I can't receive message recently days.
Please write to sales@frey.bike which I use more often.
Any question please feel free contact any time. I will answer as soon as I read it.
Cruncher123 wrote:
Jun 25 2018 12:47am
Ivy@Frey

Can't contact you via Alibaba - says your email inbox is full

FREYebikes   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Jun 26 2018 11:24pm

Hi,

About your destroyed hub, please get contact with me. Let 's see what we can support to help you solve the issue. We will be responsible for you. Please don't worry.
We are looking for some better durable hubs for the bike. Anything not good enough, we are improving and will keep improving.
Jebu wrote:
Jun 25 2018 7:08am
I can't contact either.
And I have serious problems with the rear wheel.
My core and the axis are destroyed.

Image

Marmalade   10 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Marmalade » Jun 27 2018 9:46pm

I'm about to order an AM-1000 as well, my first e-mtb, looking forward to it!

Ivy has been great and have been offered the Deore 10 speed group set over the EX1. I'm only a light rider at 60kgs (130lbs) so may not need the 11 gears.. but what about durability?

thanks :)

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Animalector » Jun 27 2018 10:04pm

What Novatec model are these hubs? I k ow they make some higher quality versions, 5 bearing ones...

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trooper5707   100 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by trooper5707 » Jun 28 2018 9:17pm

Marmalade wrote:
Jun 27 2018 9:46pm
I'm about to order an AM-1000 as well, my first e-mtb, looking forward to it!

Ivy has been great and have been offered the Deore 10 speed group set over the EX1. I'm only a light rider at 60kgs (130lbs) so may not need the 11 gears.. but what about durability?

thanks :)
Is the EX1 not available? I paid the extra for it on mine, I wanted the strength.
Frey AM1000 - Speed Machine
Rad Rover - Work Horse
Rad mini - On the go
Home Brew Hub 1000W Hub build
Xiaomi M365

Mantsos   10 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Mantsos » Jun 29 2018 7:35am

trooper5707 wrote:
Jun 28 2018 9:17pm
Marmalade wrote:
Jun 27 2018 9:46pm
I'm about to order an AM-1000 as well, my first e-mtb, looking forward to it!

Ivy has been great and have been offered the Deore 10 speed group set over the EX1. I'm only a light rider at 60kgs (130lbs) so may not need the 11 gears.. but what about durability?

thanks :)
Is the EX1 not available? I paid the extra for it on mine, I wanted the strength.
Take EX1. It would be better for power.

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Tom L   1 kW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tom L » Jun 29 2018 11:38pm

I just wrote this as a reply to a PM and thought I'd post it here as a general review for anyone else interested in this bike:

This is my first full suspension bike so I don't have much to compare it to (last one was a BBSO2 Giant Alias hardtail). The first thing I noticed was the weight. This bike is heavy. However I don't notice it at all when riding (just when putting it in the car).

I've got a pretty short commute through back streets and bush tracks. Riding over gutters and tree roots has never been so smooth. I hardly need to get up out of the seat. I love the big wheels and full suspension. I've had a go at a nearby (not very technical) single track and it was a lot of fun.

The battery is massive compared to my last one. I'm probably not going to bother putting a Watt-hour meter on it to keep track of discharge state because of this (also I have no desire to take the motor off again).

As for power, I have to ride some long ridiculously steep paved grades. The bike pulls it's weight and me (95kg) up the hills at a reasonable 15-20km/h in the top PAS level or on throttle. The throttle seems a lot more linear than my BBS02. I have noticed no overheating problems. The brakes are excellent.

The programming seems good. I'm not going to adjust it. I do notice it surges a little bit with pedal strokes if I have it in a high PAS level cruising along on the flat in low gear. This is more indicative of me being in too high a PAS level or low a gear though and I'm getting used to using the PAS power selection more often than I used to with my BBS02.

Over all, definitely no buyers regret. I'm enjoying this bike a lot.

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Ivanovitch_k   10 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Ivanovitch_k » Jun 30 2018 4:12am

Tom L wrote:
Jun 29 2018 11:38pm
The throttle seems a lot more linear than my BBS02.
big +1, bafang really improved the throttle sensitivity levels vs the BBS02B
BBS'ed Radon ZR Team 8:
BBS02B 750W - DPC750C - 48V 17.5Ah GA shark - 11 spd 11-40 Shimano XT, 42T N-W Precialps CW, KMC X11e chain, Gearsensor, XT RD, XTR Shifter, F Saint Brake, R XT Brake, RT99 200/160 Discs, magnetic shutoff, DT Swiss X1900 QR9 wheels, Manitou M30 air fork, 2.4" slick balloon schwalbe Super Moto X tires @2 bars, Suntour NCX suspension seatpost, ergon SFC3 saddle, ergon GP3 grips, Supernova M99 Pro + E12 Taillight

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Mantsos » Jun 30 2018 4:18am

I got my bike yesterday. I just wondering only when I use only throttle why that bike take a "power peak" after 25km/h? That bike accelerate very "slow" to 25km/h but after this speed start happening and it go over 40km/h easily. Should I change some settings from the program? I already tested to change throttle handle "start current (%) 10" to 20% but I don't see much of differences.

Or should I test to change Throttle handle mode speed to "current" ?

I wont to go fast when I use only throttle my last bbs02 motor was much faster what this is now.
Image

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Ivanovitch_k   10 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Ivanovitch_k » Jul 01 2018 5:24pm

battery disassembly day.

Still applying the famous Australian motto "Don't turn it on, take it apart" :mrgreen:

Doing so mostly because I'm changing the BMS for a speedict neptune 15 (a very cool piece of kit) but also to check the assembly for potential issues...

So this is the 48V 21Ah model, 13S6P with supposedly LG MJ1 3.5Ah cells.

Casing is made by Reention (known for the "Dolphin" & "Whale" models), model is Dorado ID-something (their website is unbearingly slow these days...)

On opening,

first thing I'm worried with is that even though there are sealing lips provisioned on the plastic end caps, they are of no use with the aluminum body, so it's not great to prevent water ingress.

Is Reention using this part on other tubes with better design ? Or was the mold already done and they cheaped out on the body ? We'll never know but this sucks nonetheless.

If any serious rain riding is intended, adding some good electrical tape (like 3M 33) on the outside will help a lot.

A better version could be designed and 3D printed too. I might look into that when i'll run out of spares and need to change the stock connector sets.

Image


Amongst the wire bundle, the main discharge leads are retained by selastic, all the others are free moving. Not a major issue as most are connector terminated. But, the 48->5V USB converter input is soldered in and quite poorly: wires are thin and have a 90° bend at the joint, with vibrations and wire movement, they will eventually break :!:

Things are pretty well insulated with all this cardboard around so a dead short is unlikely, but still. They could have secured it as they have done for the others surely. Or use a connector :roll:

Also, my negative converter input lead is damaged, was trapped in a screw post apparently, wtf :?

Anyways, I'm ditching this module so I'm not too worried, but you guys might want to check yours...

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On the other end of the battery, we get the charge connector. Same remark about water ingress.
But here, the wires are held in place with selastic and use a connector for easy disassembly (more likely for faster production but hey ^^). Cool.

As a side note, the connector placement is quite strange on this battery.

The discharge port is located at the top of the downtube, whereas the charge one is at the bottom. This means the discharge cable runs the totality of the downtube to reach the motor. Voltage drop. Cable weight & cost. Poor design choices made by Reention there IMO.

Image



Onto the BMS,

Looks quite decent. Controls charge and discharge on 1 lead. Measures 70 * 52mm. Around 8mm thick, but a much thicker one could easliy fit. Has a thermal cutoff sensor which states 90°C. PCBA is conformally coated, not perfectly but good enough. There are thermal pads on the alu spreader. Mosfets are SkySilicon, a Chinese brand, but with available specs. I did not looked much more into it as I'm swapping in the Neptune...

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Now, onto the cells.

It was a MASSIVE PIA to get the cell array out.

A jig is probably used at the factory to force push the bundle in the casing.

First I removed all the selastic on the BMS side of the battery, to allow it to slide out unobstructed.

Then I cut a piece of wood approximately battery shaped, onto which I sticked a thick dense foam pad. I did not want to hammer directly on the cells, even through this makeshift padded shim.

Instead, I sat the battery on a pvc pipe I had laying around and repeatedly hammered (with a rubber mallet) on a side corner of the alu casing. Effectively pushing the casing down on the battery.

I also roasted the battery in the sun for a few minutes to allow the casing to expand (the cells themselves, with their high thermal mass remained cool). That helped quite a bit. Once 1/3 of the battery was out, this went much quicker.

Overall it took 30min+ of hammering :x

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And, oh surprise. No LG MJ1 cells as advertised. Instead, we get Samsung 35E. 78 of them. In plastic holders.


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I mean, they are good cells but I was sold a MJ1 pack... I don't like that. Asked Ivy about it, waiting her response.
If a change was made in production they should have told us and updated their product page.

From the research I've done, capacity is around the same but the 35E have a higher cutoff vs the other 3.5Ah cell (GA, MJ1) at 2.65V vs 2.5V. --> Set the motor LVC accordingly :!:

Voltage sag looks worse on the 35E and it seems they are quite bad in cycle life if fully discharged (dead at ~300 Cycles @ 100% DoD). So avoid like the plage fully draining your batteries...

It also happens they are ~15% cheaper than the MJ1...


Last, about all this green cardboard wraped on the cells. It's too much. This is what made the removal such a massive headache.

As can be seen on the below, the cardboard got scored by the screw holders within the tube, indicating again too much material. Plus if it's goal was to protect the battery it's moot as it's not covering the whole array. And there is some random white cardboard added, wtf :lol: :?:

Anyways, I'm going to rewrap it properly and will secure it with EASILY removable shims :D

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Overall, I would say the build of the array itself is OK. The spot welds appear strong enough (6 points per cell).
Last edited by Ivanovitch_k on Jul 01 2018 5:50pm, edited 1 time in total.
BBS'ed Radon ZR Team 8:
BBS02B 750W - DPC750C - 48V 17.5Ah GA shark - 11 spd 11-40 Shimano XT, 42T N-W Precialps CW, KMC X11e chain, Gearsensor, XT RD, XTR Shifter, F Saint Brake, R XT Brake, RT99 200/160 Discs, magnetic shutoff, DT Swiss X1900 QR9 wheels, Manitou M30 air fork, 2.4" slick balloon schwalbe Super Moto X tires @2 bars, Suntour NCX suspension seatpost, ergon SFC3 saddle, ergon GP3 grips, Supernova M99 Pro + E12 Taillight

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Ivanovitch_k   10 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Ivanovitch_k » Jul 01 2018 5:49pm

Mantsos wrote:
Jun 30 2018 4:18am
Or should I test to change throttle handle mode speed to "current" ?
Yes, change it to Current mode. It's much smoother.

You can also try to lower start and increase end voltages to better match your specific throttle model response. Try 1 by 1 mv until you get something that doesn't work anymore and back off by 1.
BBS'ed Radon ZR Team 8:
BBS02B 750W - DPC750C - 48V 17.5Ah GA shark - 11 spd 11-40 Shimano XT, 42T N-W Precialps CW, KMC X11e chain, Gearsensor, XT RD, XTR Shifter, F Saint Brake, R XT Brake, RT99 200/160 Discs, magnetic shutoff, DT Swiss X1900 QR9 wheels, Manitou M30 air fork, 2.4" slick balloon schwalbe Super Moto X tires @2 bars, Suntour NCX suspension seatpost, ergon SFC3 saddle, ergon GP3 grips, Supernova M99 Pro + E12 Taillight

Marmalade   10 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Marmalade » Jul 01 2018 6:57pm

..thanks very much for documenting your battery rebuild! It was mentioned in my recent invoice that the cells were samsung, so it's really great that that you picked up on the higher cutoff voltage to save us destroying our packs.

Please post more pics as you progress,very cool modification! So there are a few blank spots there for some additional cells? :)

edit I have asked frey about the possibility of replacing the 35E's with MJ1's or even NCR18650GA. Will update.
Last edited by Marmalade on Jul 01 2018 9:33pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Tom L   1 kW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tom L » Jul 01 2018 7:59pm

Excellent post on the battery. Thanks.

Mantsos   10 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Mantsos » Jul 02 2018 1:07am

Ivanovitch_k wrote:
Jul 01 2018 5:49pm
Mantsos wrote:
Jun 30 2018 4:18am
Or should I test to change throttle handle mode speed to "current" ?
Yes, change it to Current mode. It's much smoother.

You can also try to lower start and increase end voltages to better match your specific throttle model response. Try 1 by 1 mv until you get something that doesn't work anymore and back off by 1.
Thank you! I will try that. I also already reported from that problem to Ivy what to do but I haven't got any answers yet. There is also video from that my throttle/speed boost problem what I try to solve -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH__06e ... e=youtu.be and how you can see that my bike going first very slow and then suddenly it take some "speed boost" and start going to much faster and give all power out.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Mantsos » Jul 02 2018 11:23am

Mantsos wrote:
Jul 02 2018 1:07am
Ivanovitch_k wrote:
Jul 01 2018 5:49pm
Mantsos wrote:
Jun 30 2018 4:18am
Or should I test to change throttle handle mode speed to "current" ?
Yes, change it to Current mode. It's much smoother.

You can also try to lower start and increase end voltages to better match your specific throttle model response. Try 1 by 1 mv until you get something that doesn't work anymore and back off by 1.
Thank you! I will try that. I also already reported from that problem to Ivy what to do but I haven't got any answers yet. There is also video from that my throttle/speed boost problem what I try to solve -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH__06e ... e=youtu.be and how you can see that my bike going first very slow and then suddenly it take some "speed boost" and start going to much faster and give all power out.
I haven't test anything yet (raining day in here) but I begin to analyzing little bit more and thinking about battery and bad connections inside there, could that be a possible and explain these "speed boosts"? Or how does your bike go with only throttle?

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Ivanovitch_k   10 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Ivanovitch_k » Jul 02 2018 4:51pm

Mantsos wrote:
Jul 02 2018 11:23am
thinking about battery and bad connections inside there, could that be a possible and explain these "speed boosts"? Or how does your bike go with only throttle?
From your video it doesn’t look like a connection issue. If it was, it would be happening randomly, and more so at higher speeds because of increased vibrations. You would also see the battery level / voltage fluctuate a lot on the display (with “empty” battery red gauges coming and going).

Changing handling from speed to current should make a large impact. You can also try unlinking the throttle response from a specific PAS level by choosing the designated assist level to one with 100% current and speed. Also set speed limited in PAS tab to max and not to “by display”.

Besides the dedicated torque page, all other settings are shared with BBSxx series. Have a look to this guide and explore this thread too.

For the torque settings look here and here.

Can’t comment about my bike as it is far from ready. It’s a very slow but steady build, but I’m documenting almost everything and will do a dedicated thread when I near completion :) !
BBS'ed Radon ZR Team 8:
BBS02B 750W - DPC750C - 48V 17.5Ah GA shark - 11 spd 11-40 Shimano XT, 42T N-W Precialps CW, KMC X11e chain, Gearsensor, XT RD, XTR Shifter, F Saint Brake, R XT Brake, RT99 200/160 Discs, magnetic shutoff, DT Swiss X1900 QR9 wheels, Manitou M30 air fork, 2.4" slick balloon schwalbe Super Moto X tires @2 bars, Suntour NCX suspension seatpost, ergon SFC3 saddle, ergon GP3 grips, Supernova M99 Pro + E12 Taillight

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Jul 02 2018 6:26pm

I have the same happening in my bike, it occurs at a certain motor speed both with torque sensing and throttle it kicks in some turbo mode. Is this a safety feature to protect the bike from using all its power at low rpm?

Once I get time, I will see if some settings change this behavior.

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