My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Cruncher123 » Jul 08 2018 1:18pm

Ender2000 wrote:
Jul 08 2018 11:37am
I'm a little frustrated. I've been messaging Ivy on alibaba for three days. She's reading my messages according to the site, but not responding. I only got one vague response about five days ago. Here's the record.
Base price is about $3K plus expensive air-freight shipping. About 45 days to build bike and get delivered to your door. Even though air-freight is overnight, takes ~2 weeks to get to freight-forwarder and thru Customs. Make sure you specify color and all options (if any) upfront - Ivy messed up the modifications I requested a few days after I placed my order (I asked for brushed aluminum frame and SRAM EX-1 upgrades - frame got painted black as I originally requested and they are shipping EX-1 groupset separately for me to install later).

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Ender2000 » Jul 09 2018 12:18am

Cruncher123 wrote:
Jul 08 2018 1:18pm
Ender2000 wrote:
Jul 08 2018 11:37am
I'm a little frustrated. I've been messaging Ivy on alibaba for three days. She's reading my messages according to the site, but not responding. I only got one vague response about five days ago. Here's the record.
Base price is about $3K plus expensive air-freight shipping. About 45 days to build bike and get delivered to your door. Even though air-freight is overnight, takes ~2 weeks to get to freight-forwarder and thru Customs. Make sure you specify color and all options (if any) upfront - Ivy messed up the modifications I requested a few days after I placed my order (I asked for brushed aluminum frame and SRAM EX-1 upgrades - frame got painted black as I originally requested and they are shipping EX-1 groupset separately for me to install later).
THanks for the information, man!

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Ender2000 » Jul 09 2018 12:20am

Question to those of you who already own a Frey bike:

Can you attach a light to the existing wiring? It looks like the buttons on the LCD support a light, and I know that other g510 bikes have lights wired in.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tom L » Jul 09 2018 12:24am

There are two female half sized spade lugs in the handlebar wiring harness. They switch 6V @ 500mA (3W) using the handlebar controller. If you want to run a light that draws more power than 3W have a read of this: viewtopic.php?p=1387972#p1387972

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Ender2000 » Jul 09 2018 11:00am

Another question:

Are these bikes quick release or thru axel in the rear wheel?

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Ivanovitch_k   10 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Ivanovitch_k » Jul 09 2018 2:51pm

Ender2000 wrote:
Jul 09 2018 11:00am
Are these bikes quick release or thru axel in the rear wheel?
R boost 148 TA Ø12mm
F boost 110 TA Ø15mm
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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by DaninSpain » Jul 10 2018 1:10pm

DISASTER: 40km from home, 95 in the shade

My biggest fear about ordering this bike was what happens if something really major goes wrong.

Today, 40km from home it did all go wrong. The power delivery suddenly became really juddery, followed shortly after by a horrible noise from the motor, and then I lost all power. I could hear the motor turning, but no propulsion.

I had to cycle a 30kg bike 40km in 95 degrees to get home. Pretty brutal.

I wanted to make a quick video to show what's happening, but now it won't even switch on. To say I'm gutted doesn't come close :(

I have ridden my AM1000 almost every day since I got it 4 months ago, and have loved it. It's done 800 miles, and I keep on top of basic maintenance such as checking for loose nuts and bolts, cleaning chain, adjusting gear cable etc.

My riding is not aggressive, usually between level 1 and 3 (sport mode). Off-Road 40% On-Road 60%.

It's lovingly cleaned whenever I've been off-road and I stick to the easy stuff with nothing too taxing. The bike has had an easy life so far.

I ordered the bike in February 2018 and was told it has the steel gear, not the nylon, but it does feel motor gear related.

I'm REALLY hoping that Frey do not abandon me, that they take this seriously and get it sorted ASAP. I've just sent Ivy an email to explain and ask her what she needs from me to get my bike fixed under the warranty. Any which way, it looks like it's going to be as while before I'm back in the saddle :(

The thought of taking apart the motor to replace gears fills me with dread.

Anyone any ideas what could have gone wrong?
The best things in life are not things :)

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Ivanovitch_k   10 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Ivanovitch_k » Jul 10 2018 3:16pm

DaninSpain wrote:
Jul 10 2018 1:10pm
The thought of taking apart the motor to replace gears fills me with dread.

Anyone any ideas what could have gone wrong?
Uh, the haul back home must have been a challenge :|

The display doesn't lit at all ?

You said you could hear it spinning but the chainring remained still ? The 3-pawl clutch could be toast. That or the the one-way bearing inside the 2nd reduction gear (09-G). You will have to open it up to really know...

I have done a complete teardown of the motor (except the rotor which I'm still wondering how to remove) and the gears are extremely easy to replace. Much more than on BBSxx series. See this video.

Also, if the sticker of your motor says V1.5 it has the steel gear.

FYI, here all the gear refs from V1.5:

Image
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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by DaninSpain » Jul 10 2018 3:45pm

[/quote]

Uh, the haul back home must have been a challenge :|

The display doesn't lit at all ?

You said you could hear it spinning but the chainring remained still ? The 3-pawl clutch could be toast. That or the the one-way bearing inside the 2nd reduction gear (09-G). You will have to open it up to really know...

I have done a complete teardown of the motor (except the rotor which I'm still wondering how to remove) and the gears are extremely easy to replace. Much more than on BBSxx series. See this video.

Also, if the sticker of your motor says V1.5 it has the steel gear.

FYI, here all the gear refs from V1.5:

Image
[/quote]

Thanks for your help Ivanovitch_k, I truly appreciate it.

At first I thought (hoped) the motor had overheated and had temporarily disengaged. Every 10km or so I'd re-start it. The display would come on, but just a noise from the motor and no propulsion. When I got home I was not in good shape, but once I'd recovered I thought I'd make a quick video to demonstrate what was happening and the noise it was making.

When I tried to switch it on, nothing. Not even the basic green battery light (on the actual battery) illuminated, which I thought was weird. So I plugged in the charger. The light turned red but no fan noise from the charger, just a single click. So I removed the battery and plugged in the charger again. This time it started to charge as per normal. Whilst it was charging I reinserted the battery and it cut out again.

I guess it must be some sort of safety cut-out kicking in.

With regards to the way forward, although I really do appreciate your helpful advice, this is a 3000€ 4 month old bike. I'm expecting that FREY will not ask me to start dismantling the motor and replace any of the innards. Definitely not my forte.

Anyway, we will see how they respond.

In the meantime, I guess I'll just have to get the stand up paddle board inflated 8)
The best things in life are not things :)

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by thingone » Jul 10 2018 3:51pm

[quote=Ivanovitch_k post_id=1393276 time=1531061986 user_id=54
Luna replaces the current shunts on the controller to make the brainbox believe less amps are flowing.
[/quote]

Ohh well that makes sense. So with this replacement the controller only "sees" half the amps, hence the write up on that "programing special sauce" that states to not enter more than 30 amps into the field as it's actually 60.

Let us know how the fets do with 3k power running through them!

I'm really interested in seeing how much power can safely be ran (continuously and peak) through some small mods on this bike.

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Ivanovitch_k   10 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Ivanovitch_k » Jul 10 2018 4:39pm

DaninSpain wrote:
Jul 10 2018 3:45pm
When I tried to switch it on, nothing. Not even the basic green battery light (on the actual battery) illuminated, which I thought was weird. So I plugged in the charger. The light turned red but no fan noise from the charger, just a single click. So I removed the battery and plugged in the charger again. This time it started to charge as per normal. Whilst it was charging I reinserted the battery and it cut out again.
From your explanation, a plausible cause is that some some gear part broke loose.

Then the successive restart attempts pushed/ejected the metallic fragment towards the (non-potted) controller area and that somehow resulted in a short.

The BMS protection kicked in and isolated the battery discharge side, hence no wakeup at all.

When you plugged the battery on the charger the BMS reseted and when you put it back on the bike it went again in safe mode.

That kinda makes sense but again, without visual confirmation this is only speculation :(

I guess frey will send you a new motor...

thingone wrote:
Jul 10 2018 3:51pm
Let us know how the fets do with 3k power running through them!
Luna stopped selling the ultra at 2.5kw because of "reliability issues".

Does that mean they melted the (then) V1.3 Nylon gears ?

That they broke some other gear like what supposedly happened to DaninSpain -at much lower power levels- ?

That the fets overheated ?

eh :(

So, I'm sure I will not push mine to 3kW for continuous use but I surely will conduct extensive testing with the stock fets, the impact of current on their temp, the impact of thermal paste on the power pcba to casing interface, etc... long road ahead :mrgreen:
Last edited by Ivanovitch_k on Jul 10 2018 4:46pm, edited 1 time in total.
BBS'ed Radon ZR Team 8:
BBS02B 750W - DPC750C - 48V 17.5Ah GA shark - 11 spd 11-40 Shimano XT, 42T N-W Precialps CW, KMC X11e chain, Gearsensor, XT RD, XTR Shifter, F Saint Brake, R XT Brake, RT99 200/160 Discs, magnetic shutoff, DT Swiss X1900 QR9 wheels, Manitou M30 air fork, 2.4" slick balloon schwalbe Super Moto X tires @2 bars, Suntour NCX suspension seatpost, ergon SFC3 saddle, ergon GP3 grips, Supernova M99 Pro + E12 Taillight

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DaninSpain   100 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by DaninSpain » Jul 10 2018 4:45pm

I guess frey will send you a new motor...
I'm counting on it, as I'm sure lots of people who are thinking about buying a FREY bike are. Post-sale customer service is so important.

Your possible explanation had me nodding my head. Sounds very plausible, even for a non-tech numpty like me :lol: :oops:

Your feedback is taking the edge off this. Thank you for that.
The best things in life are not things :)

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Tom L   1 kW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tom L » Jul 10 2018 6:56pm

Mantsos wrote:
Jul 04 2018 5:56am
...
Also what I little bit wondering now is that when I brake using rear brake that rear hub keep some noise like "bang, bang, bang, bang" and what harder I brake that bigger is that noise. I thought first that noise coming that's why because brake pads are new but that noise has not ended.
Did you find out what was causing this?
I noticed on my ride to work this morning that the rear brake was vibrating quite a bit when braking hard. Not a "bang" noise but disconcerting none the less. I cant see anything obviously wrong with it.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Jul 10 2018 9:12pm

Hi Daniel,

Please don't worry. We will be responsible for you. I've replied you by email.
DaninSpain wrote:
Jul 10 2018 1:10pm
DISASTER: 40km from home, 95 in the shade

My biggest fear about ordering this bike was what happens if something really major goes wrong.

Today, 40km from home it did all go wrong. The power delivery suddenly became really juddery, followed shortly after by a horrible noise from the motor, and then I lost all power. I could hear the motor turning, but no propulsion.

I had to cycle a 30kg bike 40km in 95 degrees to get home. Pretty brutal.

I wanted to make a quick video to show what's happening, but now it won't even switch on. To say I'm gutted doesn't come close :(

I have ridden my AM1000 almost every day since I got it 4 months ago, and have loved it. It's done 800 miles, and I keep on top of basic maintenance such as checking for loose nuts and bolts, cleaning chain, adjusting gear cable etc.

My riding is not aggressive, usually between level 1 and 3 (sport mode). Off-Road 40% On-Road 60%.

It's lovingly cleaned whenever I've been off-road and I stick to the easy stuff with nothing too taxing. The bike has had an easy life so far.

I ordered the bike in February 2018 and was told it has the steel gear, not the nylon, but it does feel motor gear related.

I'm REALLY hoping that Frey do not abandon me, that they take this seriously and get it sorted ASAP. I've just sent Ivy an email to explain and ask her what she needs from me to get my bike fixed under the warranty. Any which way, it looks like it's going to be as while before I'm back in the saddle :(

The thought of taking apart the motor to replace gears fills me with dread.

Anyone any ideas what could have gone wrong?

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Mantsos » Jul 11 2018 12:49am

Tom L wrote:
Jul 10 2018 6:56pm
Mantsos wrote:
Jul 04 2018 5:56am
...
Also what I little bit wondering now is that when I brake using rear brake that rear hub keep some noise like "bang, bang, bang, bang" and what harder I brake that bigger is that noise. I thought first that noise coming that's why because brake pads are new but that noise has not ended.
Did you find out what was causing this?
I noticed on my ride to work this morning that the rear brake was vibrating quite a bit when braking hard. Not a "bang" noise but disconcerting none the less. I cant see anything obviously wrong with it.
Not yet. :| I was have to book a maintenance time to my local ebike store if they can solve that problem. There is video from that noise(s) -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jllfmSpAbEA and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swoY3A6ugsw I guess that noise could come also from the spokes but I am not sure. My local ebike store told that noise also could come from the bent frame!? Or bent rim but they will check these things. I also changed rear axle to new one but that doesn't help. I will get my bike back tomorrow so let's see...

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tom L » Jul 11 2018 12:59am

Wow. Yeah mine's no where near that bad. You also have the occasional random ticking noise (not the freewheel) when cruising or pedalling along. Could be something hitting the spokes, a dud ratchet pawl or bearing. Let me know what you find.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Jebu » Jul 11 2018 1:02am

This week I was received a new rear wheel from Frey because my original wheel was broken, so I think they are going to do something with your motor

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by DaninSpain » Jul 11 2018 1:46am

FREYebikes wrote:
Jul 10 2018 9:12pm
Hi Daniel,

Please don't worry. We will be responsible for you. I've replied you by email.
DaninSpain wrote:
Jul 10 2018 1:10pm
DISASTER: 40km from home, 95 in the shade

My biggest fear about ordering this bike was what happens if something really major goes wrong.

Today, 40km from home it did all go wrong. The power delivery suddenly became really juddery, followed shortly after by a horrible noise from the motor, and then I lost all power. I could hear the motor turning, but no propulsion.

I had to cycle a 30kg bike 40km in 95 degrees to get home. Pretty brutal.

I wanted to make a quick video to show what's happening, but now it won't even switch on. To say I'm gutted doesn't come close :(

I have ridden my AM1000 almost every day since I got it 4 months ago, and have loved it. It's done 800 miles, and I keep on top of basic maintenance such as checking for loose nuts and bolts, cleaning chain, adjusting gear cable etc.

My riding is not aggressive, usually between level 1 and 3 (sport mode). Off-Road 40% On-Road 60%.

It's lovingly cleaned whenever I've been off-road and I stick to the easy stuff with nothing too taxing. The bike has had an easy life so far.

I ordered the bike in February 2018 and was told it has the steel gear, not the nylon, but it does feel motor gear related.

I'm REALLY hoping that Frey do not abandon me, that they take this seriously and get it sorted ASAP. I've just sent Ivy an email to explain and ask her what she needs from me to get my bike fixed under the warranty. Any which way, it looks like it's going to be as while before I'm back in the saddle :(

The thought of taking apart the motor to replace gears fills me with dread.

Anyone any ideas what could have gone wrong?
I am feeling much better this morning having received a reply from Ivy within 12 hours telling me they are going to send a replacement motor :D
I will update this episode once the motor arrives. I hope it's not too difficult / technical to remove and replace the unit. Changing the oil/filter on my motorbike is the extent of my mechanical prowess :lol:

So far, kudos to Frey for getting on top of this so quickly.
The best things in life are not things :)

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tom L » Jul 11 2018 2:42am

It's not difficult at all.

1) Remove the battery.
2) Remove the three screws holding the plastic cover above the motor.
3) Remove the chain ring and protector.
4) Unbolt the 3 motor mount nuts.
5) Punch out the three mounting bolts, making sure the spider and peddle crank arm are out of the way (on the opposite side).

All the wires are on plugs with different pin counts so you cant mix them up.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Paikan » Jul 11 2018 3:39am

Mantsos wrote:
Jul 11 2018 12:49am
Tom L wrote:
Jul 10 2018 6:56pm
Mantsos wrote:
Jul 04 2018 5:56am
...
Also what I little bit wondering now is that when I brake using rear brake that rear hub keep some noise like "bang, bang, bang, bang" and what harder I brake that bigger is that noise. I thought first that noise coming that's why because brake pads are new but that noise has not ended.
Did you find out what was causing this?
I noticed on my ride to work this morning that the rear brake was vibrating quite a bit when braking hard. Not a "bang" noise but disconcerting none the less. I cant see anything obviously wrong with it.
Not yet. :| I was have to book a maintenance time to my local ebike store if they can solve that problem. There is video from that noise(s) -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jllfmSpAbEA and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swoY3A6ugsw I guess that noise could come also from the spokes but I am not sure. My local ebike store told that noise also could come from the bent frame!? Or bent rim but they will check these things. I also changed rear axle to new one but that doesn't help. I will get my bike back tomorrow so let's see...

Yesterday I released my bike and it makes exactly the same noise.
Please, if you guess what is due, let me know to try to fix it
Regards

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Mantsos » Jul 12 2018 4:57am

Paikan. I have a bad news.

They called for me from my local ebike store and told that my bike back frame is bent about 0,5cm :( So that is the maybe reason why my bike keeps that noise. Also it could be good idea to check your bike rear axle and drop out threads from the inside because mine drop out was taken little bit damage. And because that back frame is bent about 0,5cm was that axle also little bit tight when I tried to take it out. I am going to send that report to Ivy so let's see what happens next.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by nataS@phnet.fi » Jul 12 2018 12:18pm

Hey,
what is correct tool to remove the cranks? My old puller didn´t work.

edit. So are these ISIS cranks or Octalink or something completely else.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Ivanovitch_k » Jul 12 2018 4:02pm

nataS@phnet.fi wrote:
Jul 12 2018 12:18pm
what is correct tool to remove the cranks? My old puller didn´t work.

edit. So are these ISIS cranks or Octalink or something completely else.
they are ISIS. This is strange because a square taper puller should work with them.

Did you try some grease ? Maybe the puller didn't went all the way in ? See this excellent parktool video for many tips.

Image


Mantsos wrote:
Jul 12 2018 4:57am
told that my bike back frame is bent about 0,5cm :( So that is the maybe reason why my bike keeps that noise. Also it could be good idea to check your bike rear axle and drop out threads from the inside because mine drop out was taken little bit damage. And because that back frame is bent about 0,5cm was that axle also little bit tight when I tried to take it out.
I saw that on my non-road-tested-yet frame too.

If I tighten fully the derailleur hanger screws, the thru axle bolt is hard to screw / unscrew.
If I don't screw the hanger and let it free float, the TA bolt goes in/out very nicely.

Might this be a design issue with the frames' backend ?
Might that explain the at least 2 reported axle bolt and pawl failures ?

This is worth investigating...
BBS'ed Radon ZR Team 8:
BBS02B 750W - DPC750C - 48V 17.5Ah GA shark - 11 spd 11-40 Shimano XT, 42T N-W Precialps CW, KMC X11e chain, Gearsensor, XT RD, XTR Shifter, F Saint Brake, R XT Brake, RT99 200/160 Discs, magnetic shutoff, DT Swiss X1900 QR9 wheels, Manitou M30 air fork, 2.4" slick balloon schwalbe Super Moto X tires @2 bars, Suntour NCX suspension seatpost, ergon SFC3 saddle, ergon GP3 grips, Supernova M99 Pro + E12 Taillight

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by nataS@phnet.fi » Jul 12 2018 5:16pm

Thanks,
i as a matter of a fact run into same video earlier. It seems my square taper one is narrower from the other side so it doesn´t attach to the crank but just goes all the way inside, the ISIS puller seems to be wider from backside. My puller is maybe from the 90´s so it could be that in newer ones are all wider so "one size fits all". NIce pic, explains it all!

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tom L » Jul 12 2018 6:16pm

I had the same trouble with my square taper puller. It worked for my 2008 Giant Alias but not this bike. While the tool threads on to the crank fine, you can see in Ivanovitch's photo above the ISIS has a much larger inner diameter. The centre of the puller just slips right inside with nothing to lever against.

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