Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

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Matt_92
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Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

Post by Matt_92 » Feb 09, 2018 10:18 am

Hi everybody, I plane to use the 80100-130kv for a low cost reason and I'm looking for the specs of this motor, 80kv, 130kv, 180kv, etc... When I speak of specs, I need to know a lot more than just 7000w at 18S... I remember that I saw them a few weeks ago (this was an Excel sheet), I don't remember if it was on this forum, but there was a table with comparative datas @RPM/Torque/Amp/Volt/Power/Efficiency... this is what I have been looking for for 2 days... :cry:

Depending on these datas, I will update the design of my future mid drive :
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Last edited by Matt_92 on Feb 14, 2018 12:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.
...from France, sorry for my english :oops:

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Re: Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

Post by Matt_92 » Feb 10, 2018 12:57 pm

Can anybody help ? Pleaaaaaaaaaase :cry:
...from France, sorry for my english :oops:

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Re: Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

Post by SlowCo » Feb 10, 2018 1:18 pm

Just ask the seller you'll buy from for a spec sheet?

Some links you could read and contact the people on there:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=71478

http://alienpowersystem.com/shop/brushl ... 0kv-7000w/

https://lunacycle.com/motors-and-kits/b ... -rc-motor/


C80100-Outrunner-Brushless-motor-KV130-Suitable-for-use-in-UAV.jpg
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Re: Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

Post by Matt_92 » Feb 10, 2018 3:55 pm

Thanks SlowCo for your reply and your help but I already asked Alien Power System but they never replied my question clearly, I think they don't have them, they are only supplier, with basic data sheet...
...from France, sorry for my english :oops:

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Re: Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

Post by SlowCo » Feb 10, 2018 5:28 pm

Luna Cycle seems to have them or otherwise find one in China:
https://frchobby.en.alibaba.com/product ... 7e15tpYHqU

More info:
https://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/C80100

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Re: Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

Post by Matt_92 » Feb 10, 2018 6:25 pm

These are basics specs, I already know them...
...from France, sorry for my english :oops:

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Re: Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

Post by SlowCo » Feb 11, 2018 1:38 pm

Just buy the 80100 with 50kV and see if you can eliminate one reduction stage. That will reduce cost and losses.
Alien Power seems to have this motor on sale (backorder, up to 6 weeks): http://alienpowersystem.com/shop/brushl ... 0kv-6000w/

BTW, as you don't have a freewheel on your crank you can only use motor power when pedaling. See this thread for more info on a freewheel crank: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... &start=900

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Re: Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

Post by Matt_92 » Feb 11, 2018 2:56 pm

I already asked to Alien Power System difference of effiency between 50kv/80kv and all others kv and they told me that the 130kv is the most efficient, until 7000W instead of 6000W for 50kv or 80kv ! but they never gave me the specs, they always avoid and reply me to take the 130KV... I know that I could remove one reduction stage if using 50kv/80kv... but I don't have the datas, REAL datas ?!

My real question is : What is better between losses with a second stage or motor losses (efficiency) 80kv-6000w/130kv-7000w ? and at wich RPM ?

I plane to use a freewheel on the crank set but I don't have 3D model of these parts for the moment, but the idea is there :wink:
...from France, sorry for my english :oops:

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Re: Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

Post by SlowCo » Feb 11, 2018 4:02 pm

Why don't you search this forum for the 80100 (80-100) motor and contact the people who have used them to get some real world experiences and data? The 6-7kW rating is only peak performance and the continuous rating will probably be around 2-2.5kW.

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Re: Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

Post by Matt_92 » Feb 12, 2018 5:30 am

Yes I suppose that the continuous/constant consumption is around 1000/2000w at 50km/h.

I plane to gear the bike at 50km/h max, but with a "big" acceleration, wich could get until 6000w/7000w at this short moment !
I plane to keep the rear cassette with 4 or 5 speed (with rear derailleur), to have differents ratios and different accelerations following differents slope/inclinaison...

I read maybe all discuss on the forum ? I search, I search...
...from France, sorry for my english :oops:

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Re: Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

Post by SlowCo » Feb 12, 2018 7:31 am

Matt_92 wrote:
Feb 12, 2018 5:30 am
I search, I search...
Don't keep searching but send the people in those threads who have used this motor in their builds a personal message asking for more info.

Or just buy a Cyclone 3kW kit with build in reduction: http://www.cyclone-tw.com/2chkit.html
More info here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=69867

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Re: Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

Post by Matt_92 » Feb 12, 2018 9:40 am

I saw this kit, but it needs lot of Volts to have a great power, until 72v... I want to limit my battery pack to 44v for cost reason and I want to personalize my mid drive for my needs...
...from France, sorry for my english :oops:

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Re: Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

Post by macribs » Feb 12, 2018 12:36 pm

Matt_92 wrote:
Feb 09, 2018 10:18 am
Hi everybody, I plane to use the 80100-130kv for a low cost reason and I'm looking for the specs of this motor, 80kv, 130kv, 180kv, etc... When I speak of specs, I need to know a lot more than just 7000w at 18S... I remember that I saw them a few weeks ago (this was an Excel sheet), I don't remember if it was on this forum, but there was a table with comparative datas @RPM/Torque/Amp/Volt/Power/Efficiency... this is what I have been looking for for 2 days... :cry:

Depending on these datas, I will update the design of my future mid drive :
If that was an excel sheet you found on the forum maybe it was the motor comparison worksheet? Don't know if this is what you are after, but you can have a look see. It is from the forum. On the forum there is also an .xls version if you are Bill's boy. ;)
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Re: Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

Post by Matt_92 » Feb 12, 2018 2:57 pm

macribs wrote:
Feb 12, 2018 12:36 pm
Matt_92 wrote:
Feb 09, 2018 10:18 am
Hi everybody, I plane to use the 80100-130kv for a low cost reason and I'm looking for the specs of this motor, 80kv, 130kv, 180kv, etc... When I speak of specs, I need to know a lot more than just 7000w at 18S... I remember that I saw them a few weeks ago (this was an Excel sheet), I don't remember if it was on this forum, but there was a table with comparative datas @RPM/Torque/Amp/Volt/Power/Efficiency... this is what I have been looking for for 2 days... :cry:

Depending on these datas, I will update the design of my future mid drive :
If that was an excel sheet you found on the forum maybe it was the motor comparison worksheet? Don't know if this is what you are after, but you can have a look see. It is from the forum. On the forum there is also an .xls version if you are Bill's boy. ;)
Thanks Macribs for your help, but I have already seen this Excel sheet thanks to DanGT86 :mrgreen:
...from France, sorry for my english :oops:

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Re: Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

Post by Matt_92 » Feb 14, 2018 11:47 am

Here is the idea : :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

The batterie pack will be composed of :

(x72) cells 18650 at 44v/20Ah (12S6P20Ah-2C)
Power max at 1C : 880Wh
Discharge max at 2C : 40A
Power max at 2C: 1760W

or

(x2) Lipo (22v) at 44v/12Ah (2P-6S12Ah-30C)
Power max at 1C : 528Wh
Discharge max 30C : 360A
Power max at 30C : 15840W


.
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...from France, sorry for my english :oops:

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Re: Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

Post by Rikobonito » Feb 15, 2018 2:53 pm

Salut Matt !

Superbe tes 3d et projet, j'ai le même projet que toi en gros. (avec démultiplication à 2 étage seulement, et à voir le plus simple pour moi si ce sera BBDrive ou transmission jusqu'à la roue côté opposé - désolé j'ai vraiment tout le vocabulaire côté bike, je suis plus esk8 et e-MTBoard...
Je pars lipo car j'en ai déjà, plutôt que de faire le pack liion cell 18650 ... mais ça donne envie niveau spec (autonomie vs les lipos) moins côté décharge effectivement.

Je prévois un moteur 63XX pour ça taille et poids (et pcq j'en ai un paquet ...) mais j'ai aussi 3 moteurs 80XX (tous de chez APS), que je verrais bien après pour un truc plus sans pédalage :roll: (celui-ci serait donc entraîné côté gauche de la roue ... bon c'est un second projet).

En tous cas je suis de près ton projet :P ...'tin tes modélisation sont vraiment fooolles !!! le montage aussi :)

... liens du 80100 mais que t'as déjà du croiser : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 30&t=44287
my little blog with e-sk8, e-Cruiser, e-pintail, e-MTBoard, e-Dirt Scooter and others builds
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Re: Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

Post by Matt_92 » Feb 15, 2018 3:56 pm

Hey Rikobonito !

Je viens de voir tes post (signature), et c'est du beau boulot aussi !! Tu as l'air bien + expérimenté que moi sur la partie électrique, il faudra que je te pose 2 ou 3 questions un de ces 4 au tel si ça te dérange pas ? pour une fois que je tombe sur qq'un qui a l'air de connaitre et qui fait de belles réalisations... :wink:

On fait quoi ? anglais ou français ? bon allé si t'es inscrit ici, je me dis que tu dois décoder un minimum comme moi... :D

...to be true, I master mechanical assembly, the goal of my design is to have very easy manufacturing, without machining and welding process (the most expensive process), except milling process, very easy. I plane to not spend more than 300€ for the mechanical and special bike parts.

I just understood how to think for the ratio power/motor/discharge/autonomy... and so the big difference between Lipo and Li-ion !! I want to complete my legs with big power for big acceleration and continuous assistance at 50km/h.

If I understood well :

-Lipo : big power available, big controller, big motor (80xxx), big acceleration, variable/small autonomy...
-Li-ion : small power available, small controller, small motor (63xx), small acceleration, big autonomy...

I continue to train myself about electrical components !
...from France, sorry for my english :oops:

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Re: Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

Post by macribs » Feb 15, 2018 5:56 pm

Pls keep conversation in english folks, that makes it easier for everyone that does not speak french.

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Re: Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

Post by Rikobonito » Feb 15, 2018 8:48 pm

Yes, sorry, too much exited, wont lost my word and do it too quickly :mrgreen: I will continue to give my best !

Thanks for the kind words Matt_92 :wink:

Exactly what I could expect from a kit like this :+1: Love your goals !
YEah, me too Matt :lol: haha and now I love this multi-ratio stage ! 1st I was thinking the ratio of itch was add with other, now I see it multiplicated !! Even better ! So with assitance yes I think a 63xx could be a good start, lightweight, cheaper and less consum more range ...
(now I really have to start a topic !!)
my little blog with e-sk8, e-Cruiser, e-pintail, e-MTBoard, e-Dirt Scooter and others builds
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Re: Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

Post by Matt_92 » Feb 16, 2018 7:33 am

I want to keep the crankset :

-in case of failure, I want to be able to go back home :mrgreen:
-I want continue to pedal, it's good for health and grow the autonomy :wink:
-I want to keep the derailleur as gearbox for the electric motorization (for big ascent)
-for the police, it must look like a bicycle (I will find some stickers 250w on Ebay) :mrgreen:

For the double stage belt reduction, here is my opinion :

Tyre : 26 x 1.00 (OD Ø609mm, developped 1910mm)
Speed required : 50km/h = 436RPM at the wheel
Battery : 44v
Motor : 130kv (5700rpm at 44v)

I don't want to use 219 chain, to much strident noise, not smoothy, sin effect and vibration with small diameter cog.
I prefere use HTD5M-20 pulley/belt drive, with minimum 18t pulley to keep a very quiet and torquey mid drive.

-1st and 2nd stage are 18t/60t pulley : (60/18)² = 1:11
(If I want to have this reduction with only one stage, I let you imagine the size of the big pulley, not standard)

-3th stage is : 14t freewheel and 42t for the crankset : 42/14 = 1:3
Total reduction at the crankset : 11x3 = 1:33 (5700/33 = 172rpm)

-4th stage (5 speed with derailleur) :
32/13 = 2.46 - Total ratio : 33/2.46 = 1:13 = 438rpm = 50km/h
32/16 = 2 - Total ratio : 33/2 = 1:16 = 356rpm = 40km/h
32/21 = 1.52 - Total ratio : 33/1.52 = 1:21 = 271rpm = 31km/h
32/26 = 1.23 - Total ratio : 33/1.23 = 1:27 = 211rpm = 24km/h
32/32 = 1 - Total ratio : 33/1 = 1:33 = 172rpm = 20km/h (big torque for big ascent)

The idea is that if you have a gearbox, you can manage/optimize the consumption/acceleration/ascent on all the speed range, not the case without derailleur...

I know what I mean ? :wink:
...from France, sorry for my english :oops:

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Re: Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

Post by Rikobonito » Feb 16, 2018 8:17 am

YEs, thanks for all of this, I read three times this part 2 :idea: + your topic again from the 1st post ! + Dan topic ... I love it all !!!
this ratio + this motor .... crcrcrrrrr :twisted: Its gonna be mad bro !
You clearly don't need any effort at any moment to pedal with this, and its what I like. Or you could train cardio if wanted, perfect.
Now I see a lot better your gear ratio and shift possibilities and once again you got exactly what it sould be done I guess (regarding to my 1th expectations). Optimised & smart !
Got also a lot of vocabulary to integrate but I clearly got the system in mind now. I just got to target at the custom parts I have to upgrade on the bike if needed and if I make the choice of the bike itself. I got to start a decathlon vtt or my fav. YT capra... but I already know that if I start on the décathlon rockrider I will imediatly think about make this work bigger under the Capra ... so better to make it once well, otherwise there will be a lot of time and money lost !
So I have to say that you will be my inspiration for this 1st step in the ebike world :mrgreen: haha
my little blog with e-sk8, e-Cruiser, e-pintail, e-MTBoard, e-Dirt Scooter and others builds
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Re: Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

Post by Matt_92 » Feb 16, 2018 10:53 am

yes my friend, lots of possibility, solutions and design following your need/requirements !

where do you live ? I live near of Paris at Puteaux, I would like to go at work with an electric bicycle, but the problem is the ascent on my path (120m on 4km), that's why I want a powerfull assistance :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Nice bike the YT Capra :twisted: !! but maybe a little more difficult to integrate a custom mid drive with batterie pack because of the frame shape ? I choose this Decahtlon bike (same frame with 500s, 520s, 540s and 560s) because of space in the frame and its low price for used bike.

If I continue my brainstorming, if I choose Lipo pack, this technologie can deliver the power (on a short time) until the motor if needed until the max 7000w consumption of the 80100.

If I suppose the max Amp consumption 7000w/44v = 160A, I can suppose choose a controller at 200A (it lets me a small safety factor).
If I suppose a Lipo battery pack 12Ah-30C, I suppose this pack able to deliver 12Ahx30C = 360A, already much better that the max 160A at 7000w (with a safety factor of 360/160 = 2.25).

If I suppose the average Amp consumption at 50km/h without pedaling, about 1500w/44v = 34A, I can suppose ride during 12Ah/34 = 0.35h = 21min = 16km !

All is theorical.... is it the good way ? :roll:
...from France, sorry for my english :oops:

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Re: Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

Post by Rikobonito » Feb 17, 2018 8:20 am

Hey matt !
haha I was at Issy some years ago !.. now Im at the opposite :mrgreen: Brunoy (91 - RER D)
We have to meet up one day !! (I go to Ennery once a month) I MPing you !

I'm totaly not use with ascent view but during 4km yes it seams a lot ! But easily possible I think.

Yes, want to use more this bike than during holiday, power it up is the best way, but the frame is all more constraining like you say.
I make some position test of the motors yesterday.

I would go with lipo too... I got a lot of testing, range, wh/km etc with e-MTBoard only, I used to calculate all with Wh/km.
I know that with 2 x 63mm motor @ 70amps itch, in off road ride Im around 22Wh/km. I mate uphill an hard mountain trail make +32Wh almost same setup...
My 2 x 6s12Ah15c graphene for a 12s12Ah pack geave me around 530Wh / 22 = 24km ... I'm set the cut off start pretty hight too so I'm really at 20/22km range. And more like 30km cruising flat road like in Paris.
I will take the same pack (180amps max), I don't think you gonna really hurt those 160Amps (during peak ok, but just a few second like you say). I got 4 I could make 12s24Ah30c so ... or with 4 x 8Ah for 12s 16Ah 30c ... But I will be able to set itch parameter of the battery pack and motor amps too, so I could set a max speed (erpm) and power to the motor, temperature, max Wattage etc so I will test and try stape by stape (I hope to make an eco mode, normal ride and crazy open mode). I think with a 80mm and around 70amps (and the insane ratio we got here) you already got a killer ebike .... or emotorbike :twisted:

With my custom e-Dirt scooter Oxelo, I got around 20wh/km, I was thinking its a lot. With a single 6374 170kv motor, 12s8Ah15c, 8", ratio 6.25:1, works like a mini YZ :lol: maybe to muh full-throttle on it haha I see it could be even more in e-bike categorie so.

But yes its theorical for me too, but your supposition seams legit, it could be your mini mini mimum range without any assitance maybe. So it makes around 33Wh/km, thats a loooot :o its supposed all on your ascent path right ? Or its "normal" consum for an powerfull ebike setup ?

Good WE :v:
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... I wish also an e-MTBike soon !! :v: Thanks DIY Power community :wink:

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Re: Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

Post by Rikobonito » Feb 18, 2018 6:48 am

I was a bit worry about all what we could read about BB Mid Drive and the possible power transmit :
The two systems I’ll describe here are…first: a VERY high powered “one-speed” system that drives the left side of the rear wheel (leaving the stock right-side pedal-drive system just as you found it), and…second: a BB-drive, which is limited to a power level of around 2,200W /3-HP, but it gives the motor the use of the bikes gears, and that would provide a wider range of performance. Namely; a higher top-speed for the street, and still having great low-speed hill climbing for off-road (or places like San Francisco!).
Chains and sprockets will wear out faster on any mid drive, and especially on high-powered mid drives
...
If you want a super powerful electric bike (over 2000 watts) you have better and more reliable options ...
et
A light and narrow 9-speed chain is sized so that nine gears can be squeezed into the axle space that normally holds 7 gears, so 9-speed chain has no place in a non-hub build, since it is only made for a 200W human. Also, thicker sprockets are quieter, if that is of interest to you.
par exemple.

Everything looks good except that I got 11 speeds ... so even worse in my case ! (but I will not used the 3 bigger gearing of the rear wheel (I see they're not solidary with the others :arrow: here)

You plan to change many parts of the original frame of your bike for stronger one ?
What scared me it that with sutch motor we (could) got a lot more than 2.200w (that could easily be set on my esc with motor and batt max @ 50A with my 44v lipo pack ... )
63mm fitting the frame ! 80mm should be put your way, out of the frame ...
With the huge torque use one your bigger ratio don't you think its gonna crak it off ? Or the huge 1st 1:11 or maybe the 3th ratio 1:33 help to reduice effort on the pedalier and rear gear ? (but its just the motor who take less effort, but more the transmission system, is that right ?! I need some more highlight on this :idea:

Thanks man :v:
my little blog with e-sk8, e-Cruiser, e-pintail, e-MTBoard, e-Dirt Scooter and others builds
... I wish also an e-MTBike soon !! :v: Thanks DIY Power community :wink:

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Re: Specs Performance for 80-100 motor ?

Post by Byte » Feb 18, 2018 8:16 am

I also searched for a long time for detailed specs on these motors, but could never find anything useful. I think it doesn't exists because it is a motor intended for hobby purposes. My Castle Creations 160HV measured over 13.000 Watts with 10S, however I don't know how reliable that measurement is.

Image

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4&start=25


EDIT: Notice this is by pushing the ESC and motor to the absolute limit. We don't have hills in the Netherlands, so I can gear it to have a high topspeed and also have lots of power. If I would need to ride this bike on a hill, the motor or controller would definitely blow or overheat :lol:

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