Tongsheng TSDZ2 operation

Daytriker

10 W
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Sep 26, 2011
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I received an email from a customer that did their own install of a TSDZ2 36 volt/350 watt kit. This is the non- pedal brake/non throttle version. (That's what I ordered but maybe not what they received?) The install went well, but the customer finds the cranks very hard to turn. I am guessing that the settings in the Display have not been pre-set correctly &/or he may have had his feet on the pedals when turning the system on & giving a false 'Zero' setting on the torque sensor. Can current owners provide feedback if your cranks/pedals are hard to turn without power being on? Is there some other things I can have the customer check to make sure the motor is turning as it should? Thank you for the feedback.
 
How I would approach this:

1: Take the drivechain off the chainring and see if the cranks still turn hard. If they don't it is further up the line and if they do you know it isn't that

2: Undo all cable connections to the motor. Still turn hard? Time to dive inside the casing.

3: Take the motor apart. Although there is a little sticker there that warns against doing this or voiding your warranty occurs it is a simple enough task to tear down a TSDZ2 that most should be able to figure out. Only takes simple tools that should be in anyones kit. If in doubt take pictures as you tear it down so that you can get it back together in order. Pay attention especially to the small bits!

On the motor side check for freedom of movement of the motor armature and blue gear. This area needs grease also, but not packed with it. On the reduction gear side check for freedom of movement and grease. Turn the bb spindle by hand and it should turn smoothly.

Other than that there really isn't anything else that could cause a stiff feeling at the cranks.
 
Ours had about 8-10 ft lbs of drag out of the box. Pulled the case & seal off, seal was installed correctly with enough grease.

Removed seal and tested, was down to about 4-5 Ft lbs of drag. Re-installed seal and sent Grace an email who's response was "thats normal for a mid drive". My BBS02 had about 2 ft-lbs of drag.

I suspect some of the tolerances on the counterbores and locating points on the cases etc are insufficient that allow some units to bind shafts. In addition, the secondary reduction gears have way too shallow of pressure angles resulting in high friction.

After about 600 miles removed the TSZD2 and replaced with a MAC12T/Phaserunner/CA3/Thun, still running the 36V 8AH battery (wife's trike). Her range increased from about 60 miles to 100 miles. She only uses boost when climbing. On the flats (human power) returned to average speeds of 10-10.5 MPH where she was before adding any boost. With the TSDZ2, her average speed Human power was 8.5 - 9 MPH.
 
Wonder what the Ft Lbs of drag is on a RC mid drive motor system ?

Anyone who reads this thread that has a RC mid drive , ( Tangent, or a LightningRod's mid-drive system , etc ) how much drag do you have with your system ?




Triketech said:
Ours had about 8-10 ft lbs of drag out of the box. Pulled the case & seal off, seal was installed correctly with enough grease.

Removed seal and tested, was down to about 4-5 Ft lbs of drag. Re-installed seal and sent Grace an email who's response was "thats normal for a mid drive". My BBS02 had about 2 ft-lbs of drag.

I suspect some of the tolerances on the counterbores and locating points on the cases etc are insufficient that allow some units to bind shafts. In addition, the secondary reduction gears have way too shallow of pressure angles resulting in high friction.

After about 600 miles removed the TSZD2 and replaced with a MAC12T/Phaserunner/CA3/Thun, still running the 36V 8AH battery (wife's trike). Her range increased from about 60 miles to 100 miles. She only uses boost when climbing. On the flats (human power) returned to average speeds of 10-10.5 MPH where she was before adding any boost. With the TSDZ2, her average speed Human power was 8.5 - 9 MPH.
 
Triketech said:
After about 600 miles removed the TSZD2 and replaced with a MAC12T/Phaserunner/CA3/Thun, still running the 36V 8AH battery (wife's trike). Her range increased from about 60 miles to 100 miles. She only uses boost when climbing. On the flats (human power) returned to average speeds of 10-10.5 MPH where she was before adding any boost. With the TSDZ2, her average speed Human power was 8.5 - 9 MPH.

I know this is a little bit of a derail, but how is the feel of the Thun/CA3/Mac compared to the Tsdz2? (or Bionx / Bosch / Shimano, if you happen to have experience with them).

I've been getting by with a Tsdz2, but I don't particularly like it. In a practical sense, I find that to match my wife on our big bosch equipped cargo bike at the speed she likes to go (13-14ish), I'm in a dead zone where it's too much work with the motor off, and with the motor on the lowest setting, I have to soft pedal to keep my speed low enough. In a less practical sense, compared with the Bosch or Bionx I've in the past, it's just not as fun / natural / refined feeling. I'm thinking about building up a cargo bike with dual hub motors (2x Mac, or 1 Mac + 1 DD) and a torque sensing bottom bracket, but I have no way to test ride a Thun+CA3 setup, and it's been tough to find anyone who has ridden both that kind of setup and anything that I'm familiar with.
 
kevinscargobike said:
I know this is a little bit of a derail, but how is the feel of the Thun/CA3/Mac compared to the Tsdz2? (or Bionx / Bosch / Shimano, if you happen to have experience with them).

Simply put, superior to any other system I've tried including those you mentioned.

The caveat is with the Thun. They've been on backorder for quite some time now. Recently tried the NTCE but is was DOA. Internal sealed connections were broken and the mechanical assembly was botched at the factory; maybe due to being a pilot production piece. So at the moment, torque sensing Bottom Brackets are pretty scarce.

Bafang has a new mid drive with Torque Sensing. and should be powerful enough for you. That said I would go with an 8 speed chain.
 
That’s great to hear!

I ordered a Sempu, along with a CA3, Phaserunner and a Mac10t. My plan is that if I like the feel, I’ll add a second Phaserunner and Mac motor.

With the 10t, I wanted some flexibility to get reasonable torque in a 26” wheel, but also reasonable speed if/when I move the setup to front loading cargo bike with a 20” front wheel.

It’s a shame that there’s really no way to test this kind of setup - my plan has been to figure out if I can do a fully aftermarket assist system that I like, and then buy a bike with no assist, or failing that, buy a bike with commercial assis and add an additional throttle-only hub motor just for the big hill.

I’m hoping that a pair of hub motors combined with a triple chain ring will give me the most flexibility and the most options for getting home when something is broken.
 
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