Bafang Ultra Mid Drive Full Suspension bikes

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jeffcrilly   100 µW

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Bafang Ultra Mid Drive Full Suspension bikes

Post by jeffcrilly » Mar 04 2018 10:30pm

I read with great interest the Frey AM1000 thread, and started looking into Bafang Ultra powered bikes... ideally available for order from a US retailer. (Ordering 1 bike from China and importing it by myself, w/ duties, etc just seems like a bit of hassle/risk.)

(Referenced AM1000 thread: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=91035 )

I rode a Bafang Max powered bike for a few days and it seemed almost perfect.
Downside was no throttle, and it didn't have suspension.
Fwiw, I'm 5'9" about 180lbs, and I'm looking for something "road legal"... i.e. I would want the motor programmed for 750w (it seems doable from what I've read).

So, I've been on the hunt for a decent FS mid-drive e-bike w/ torque sensor and throttle.
(And I've been pretty much avoiding anything other than Bafang, fwiw. Maybe because I rode some Bosch bikes, and also read Karl's posts. https://electricbike-blog.com/author/karlgesslein/)

I see there are some choices... a list is below; feel free to add alternatives, or make suggestions... What am I missing?

I'm leaning towards the Volton A-Trail, mainly because:
a) Delivery time seems reasonable (looks like late April 2018)
b) Has 27.5 x 3 tires
c) Seems to be programmed for 750w (as opposed to 1000w)

The Volton A-Trail components aren't "top of the line" afaict, but do seem decent given the price.
One concern -- it is not clear if the A-Trail has motor inhibitor brakes. Is this essential?

The other alternative seems to be the Biktrix Juggernaut Ultra FS; I'd need to program the motor for 750w.
[Edit - Roshan replied almost immediately that it can be programmed for 750w.]

Fwiw, the Luna Apex seems to spec the best components.. tho I'm not sure I want a carbon fiber frame and kinda wanted to keep this under 4k.

Here's my list...

Volton A-Trail
https://voltonbicycles.com/shop/a-trail-emtb/
Available in 17” or 19” frame.
Available w/ Bafang Max 350w or Ultra 750w
48v 14.4ah battery
9 speed deore derailleur
Brakes 180mm Tektro hydraulic (not sure which ones)
Brakes do not seem to have motor inhibitors
27.5 x 3 tires
Late April delivery?

Biktrix Juggernaut Ultra FS
https://www.biktrix.com/collections/bik ... t-ultra-fs
(Available in US from a couple e-retailers it seems)
Bafang Ultra 1000w. [Edit - can be toned down to 750w]
48v 20Ah battery
Available with Wren inverted fork
27.5 x 3 wheels (other options)
Brakes 180mm Tektro 4 piston brakes
(Motor inhibitors?)

M2S Dual Sport
https://shop.m2sbikes.com/collections/f ... ltra-motor
Bafang Ultra 750w
48v 14.5ah battery
27.5 x 2.3” Tires. (Not sure 3” tires would fit)
Fork: RST Titan 150mm air
“Medium” available in May 2018

FLX Attack (Not the Ultra motor -- included as it seems interesting and less $$)
https://flx.bike/collections/bikes/products/attack
Bafang Max 350w
Rear suspension questionable
27.5 x 2.1”. (I doubt 3" tires would fit.)
Brakes 180mm Tektro Auriga with motor inhibitors
(in stock)

Luna Apex
https://lunacycle.com/luna-apex/
Bafang Ultra 750w
52v 28ah battery
Available Wren Fat Fork (110mm travel)
Fat Tire
$5700

The following are listed just as an fyi; these don't fit my criteria

FLX Blade - front suspension only
https://flx.bike/products/blade
Bafang Ultra 1000
Magura e-brakes
Marketed as "off road".

E-Ranger FX41M
http://www.erangerbikes.com/fx41m-elect ... ntain-bike
(Vancouver BC)
1000w Bafang Ultra
48v 17ah battery
27.5' x 2.3" Tires
10 speed


therunningrobots   1 µW

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Re: Bafang Ultra Mid Drive Full Suspension bikes

Post by therunningrobots » Apr 27 2018 12:47pm

I'm looking at the Volton A-Trail as well. I had an order for the Biktrix but changed my mind 2 days in. I've been going back and forth about this for days. My wife has a Specialized brose motor in her Como and I love the feel of that motor. Just want a bit more power for the trail riding. Since Bafang Ultra is the only motor that has more torque than the Brose, I'm stuck there.

I'm also looking at a Haibike 2017 XDURO FullSeven 6.0 on eBay. I've never ridden either of these bikes. What are your thoughts on the Haibike with the Bosch motor vs the Volton A-Trail?

Also looking to keep this below $4k. :) Happy hunting!

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Re: Bafang Ultra Mid Drive Full Suspension bikes

Post by Raisedeyebrows » Apr 28 2018 12:14am

gidooo wrote:
Mar 05 2018 5:56pm
https://www.exess-bikes.de/
That is a nice looking bike, Carbon frame looks wicked. Almost $7,000 USD but looks very well engineered.
Yuba Mundo w/BBSHD
Specialized Hard Rock w/9c clone, statoraid, hubsink
Trek Fuel 90 w/BBSHD
Above all run on 14s4p 52v li-ion
Ecobike folder 36v
Currie Flyer scooter 24v on 24ah of SLA

Every trip made with electric bike is one less car trip, saves money, no toxic fumes, less noise, less impact on roads.

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Re: Bafang Ultra Mid Drive Full Suspension bikes

Post by Cruncher123 » May 14 2018 11:55pm

Raisedeyebrows wrote:
Apr 28 2018 12:14am
gidooo wrote:
Mar 05 2018 5:56pm
https://www.exess-bikes.de/
That is a nice looking bike, Carbon frame looks wicked. Almost $7,000 USD but looks very well engineered.
Sadly, they don't ship to the US, or I'd buy that in an instant. Even sadder is that none of the available Ultra bikes have decent frames or components - mostly crummy Chinese frames with low-end components. If Exess could find a US distributor they'd do a lot of business.

VisionxOrb   1 µW

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Re: Bafang Ultra Mid Drive Full Suspension bikes

Post by VisionxOrb » May 21 2018 9:03pm

Found this on alibaba, looks like the oem for the m2s ultra
https://letisgo.en.alibaba.com/product/ ... _bike.html

The battery is a little different on this one, but looking at some of there other bikes, there "pin striping" is exactly like m2s.

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Re: Bafang Ultra Mid Drive Full Suspension bikes

Post by Hillhater » Jul 09 2018 3:18am

It seems there are more frames and complete bikes apearing daily for the Bafang Ultra and Max drive units..
Some well below $2k :shock: ,..EG...
https://ansbernbikes.en.alibaba.com/?sp ... 15e5UzuiwM
More choice , more competition, lower prices.. :D
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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Re: Bafang Ultra Mid Drive Full Suspension bikes

Post by VisionxOrb » Jul 10 2018 10:39pm

Hillhater wrote:
Jul 09 2018 3:18am
It seems there are more frames and complete bikes apearing daily for the Bafang Ultra and Max drive units..
Some well below $2k :shock: ,..EG...
https://ansbernbikes.en.alibaba.com/?sp ... 15e5UzuiwM
More choice , more competition, lower prices.. :D
That thing looks pretty sexy

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Re: Bafang Ultra Mid Drive Full Suspension bikes

Post by TOLM » Jul 12 2018 9:37pm

Interesting thread. Thank you

Am1000 looks interesting but frame quality seems not yet to be on par with good quality. production bikes. Also cost of shipping in the 800 range to the us is very high.

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Re: Bafang Ultra Mid Drive Full Suspension bikes

Post by Drop Dead Fred » Jul 27 2018 7:03pm

Hillhater wrote:
Jul 09 2018 3:18am
It seems there are more frames and complete bikes apearing daily for the Bafang Ultra and Max drive units..
Some well below $2k :shock: ,..EG...
https://ansbernbikes.en.alibaba.com/?sp ... 15e5UzuiwM
More choice , more competition, lower prices.. :D
Hillhater,

The problem with that bike is it is not a Ultra as stated on the weblink. If you scroll down it is a 250w mid drive or 350w if you use 48v battery. 2 year old technology. I've noticed that the Chinese manufacturers commonly do this and I think it is a translation thing.

Fred.

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Re: Bafang Ultra Mid Drive Full Suspension bikes

Post by Hillhater » Jul 27 2018 8:12pm

Fred,..
its never clear when dealing with China based companies etc, but their products on Alibaba clearly state its a 1000W bafang unit..
But probably have to email them to get confirmation.
https://ansbernbikes.en.alibaba.com/pro ... 1cc9i10rZD
Image
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Re: Bafang Ultra Mid Drive Full Suspension bikes

Post by amberwolf » Jul 27 2018 8:29pm

Drop Dead Fred wrote:
Jul 27 2018 7:03pm
I've noticed that the Chinese manufacturers commonly do this and I think it is a translation thing.
It's more likely a marketing thing.

Marketing is often about how big a lie you can tell to get people to buy your stuff, and still get away with it. :(

Doesn't matter what country or culture they are from.

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Re: Bafang Ultra Mid Drive Full Suspension bikes

Post by Drop Dead Fred » Jul 27 2018 11:27pm

amberwolf wrote:
Jul 27 2018 8:29pm
Drop Dead Fred wrote:
Jul 27 2018 7:03pm
I've noticed that the Chinese manufacturers commonly do this and I think it is a translation thing.
It's more likely a marketing thing.

Marketing is often about how big a lie you can tell to get people to buy your stuff, and still get away with it. :(

Doesn't matter what country or culture they are from.
It is usually a marketing thing, I just wanted to be as fair as possible. Earlier this year I ran across a bunch of these vendors that would flag the page as 1000w but when you look at the fine print they were usually a 250 - 350w older system.

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Re: Bafang Ultra Mid Drive Full Suspension bikes

Post by Drop Dead Fred » Jul 27 2018 11:37pm

jeffcrilly wrote:
Mar 04 2018 10:30pm
I read with great interest the Frey AM1000 thread, and started looking into Bafang Ultra powered bikes... ideally available for order from a US retailer. (Ordering 1 bike from China and importing it by myself, w/ duties, etc just seems like a bit of hassle/risk.)

(Referenced AM1000 thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=91035 )
Jeffcrilly,

Another you might want to look at is the new M600 version from Frey Bikes. Personally I think is a really good system and if I had not already purchased the AM1000 I would have bought one of these!

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 71d2W5tmAJ

I know how you feel ordering from a Chinese manufacturer is a scary thing but the fact remains that most bikes not just ebikes are made my Chinese manufacturers. Matter of fact Giant bicycles is out of Taiwan and makes probably 80 - 90 % of most well known bikes on different production lines in their factory in Taiwan.

And to be honest I had a very easy seamless time dealing with Ivy Wang at Frey Bikes. She really took care of me well and was very up front about everything. And yes you are correct $800 shipping is quite a bit but unless you order a container full of bikes that is the cost. Of course a container was 80 or 120 bikes and shipped for about $1200.00 for the whole container. It was a slow boat from China so to speak... :)

Tom   100 W

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Re: Bafang Ultra Mid Drive Full Suspension bikes

Post by Tom » Jul 29 2018 2:26am

Any thoughts on this one? Looks to be a bafang ultra. $2,695.00 plus $175 shipping.

https://www.perryspowerbikes.com/product-p/m1-ppb.htm

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Re: Bafang Ultra Mid Drive Full Suspension bikes

Post by Mick48 » Jul 29 2018 3:10am

That one doesn't look too bad. They are heading in the right direction. Maybe an upgrade on the fork (Fox 34) and
on the rear shock. Cannot wait until they crack that Bafang Ultra and see how much power they can put thru it! :)

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Re: Bafang Ultra Mid Drive Full Suspension bikes

Post by Hillhater » Jul 30 2018 2:57am

And another ..
https://tovini.en.alibaba.com/product/6 ... 4093B7nvgU
Problem with MinOQ, and some low end spec items,...
..but Ultea motor, LG battery, etc, and <$2k ?
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Re: Bafang Ultra Mid Drive Full Suspension bikes

Post by torker » Jul 31 2018 6:34am

Looks like the Tovini is min. order 10 :(
Dave When I die I want to slide in sideways yelling WooHoo what a ride !

Giant Rincon w rear 9C 6*10 10s Lipo 30+ amps
Specialized FSR Comp 9C 6*10 15s x 50A 3300 W :)
http://s18.photobucket.com/user/rolinfu ... t=3&page=1

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Re: Bafang Ultra Mid Drive Full Suspension bikes

Post by Tom » Aug 01 2018 10:51pm

As far as the Volton A-Trail mentioned in the OP, I emailed them today and they confirmed brake cutoff on the Ultra version is stock. No gear shift sensor though. They are currently sold out but it sounds like they are looking to crowdsource additional supply.

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Re: Bafang Ultra Mid Drive Full Suspension bikes

Post by eltee » Aug 01 2018 11:09pm

Tom wrote:
Jul 29 2018 2:26am
Any thoughts on this one? Looks to be a bafang ultra. $2,695.00 plus $175 shipping.

https://www.perryspowerbikes.com/product-p/m1-ppb.htm
I just bought one, shipping out tomorrow.

FIrst, you may have read my posts in the Frey AM1000 thread. I was in the midst of ordering but someone hacked Ivy's (the rep) email and intercepted it, then sent me a fake wire transfer invoice by pretending to be Ivy. Thankfully Ivy, herself, caught the problem and I was able to cancel that order. This sort of put me off on ordering from China, doing a wire transfer, waiting over a month, etc. It works for most but my luck wasn't with me on this occasion so I started looking for a place to buy one in the US. I expected I would pay more for the luxury of buying from a US company but that would be partially offset by not paying several hundred dollars in shipping and duties. Plus, I was hoping one of the US dealers had the bike in stock. The local dealers I contacted did not carry eMTB's with the Bafang Ultra.

I called Perry's Power Bikes and spoke to Perry himself, several times with several questions. This is a family run business in upstate New York. Had the bike I wanted, the color I wanted (black), and the price was in the ballpark. The bike has the Bafang Ultra, throttle, etc. One year warranty and he was a gentleman to speak with. He answered all my questions, the bike would be shipped tomorrow. No long wait for shipping, no duties to pay, easy peasy.

The bike appears to be made by Kaiyi in China. Decent specs for the price. The transaction was done by credit card, so I felt very confident that my purchase was secure. So, bottom line is that it is an American, family run business and they are friendly and helpful. The bike is already in the US so it won't take long to ship. I'll post some pics and a review once I ride it.

The pic posted here is from their website but mine is the same one but in black.
Attachments
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PerryBike.jpg (231.88 KiB) Viewed 3439 times

Tom   100 W

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Re: Bafang Ultra Mid Drive Full Suspension bikes

Post by Tom » Aug 01 2018 11:41pm

Yes, looks like this bike from Kaiyi.

Image

https://kaiyiebike.en.alibaba.com/produ ... _27_5.html

Thanks for taking the plunge even if you took the last matte black bike. ;)

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Re: Bafang Ultra Mid Drive Full Suspension bikes

Post by eltee » Aug 02 2018 12:30pm

Tom wrote:
Aug 01 2018 11:41pm
Yes, looks like this bike from Kaiyi.

Image

https://kaiyiebike.en.alibaba.com/produ ... _27_5.html

Thanks for taking the plunge even if you took the last matte black bike. ;)
Ooops. Were YOU looking at that one? :shock: Sorry if I got a bike you were thinking about but Perry told me more are on the way.

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Re: Bafang Ultra Mid Drive Full Suspension bikes

Post by Tom » Aug 02 2018 12:53pm

No worries, I am leaning toward the volton as the suspension components look better. What size frame did you get? Does Perry only offer one size?

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Re: Bafang Ultra Mid Drive Full Suspension bikes

Post by eltee » Aug 02 2018 10:13pm

Tom wrote:
Aug 02 2018 12:53pm
No worries, I am leaning toward the volton as the suspension components look better. What size frame did you get? Does Perry only offer one size?
I don't know the size. I told him my height and inseam and advised him that the regs say I must be able to straddle the bike without tilting it with feet spread at shoulder's width. He said it would fit. Normally I would be a Medium frame or maybe a small with 29's, etc.

I suspect I will upgrade the suspension if needed over time.

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Re: Bafang Ultra Mid Drive Full Suspension bikes

Post by Tom » Aug 13 2018 5:46pm

I eneded up getting a Volton el legs express for around $1400. I know it's old skool (BBS01 / 36V) but wanted something lightweight and stealth for now that didn't break the bank while I decide whether to invest in an ultra vs. something lighter like the M600). Anyway, I was talking to Joe at Volton about the a-trail and he mentioned they are planning to offer a pre-order group buy in the near future. Pricing is still in flux but sounded like it might be a couple hundred bucks less than their current website price. I also asked about the 25% import tax and he indicated that would not change the price. It would be a one time offer limited to the first 25 bikes. Could be a decent buy for an ultra.

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