55mph Cyclone

I got the cyclone kit up to 55mph on the way to the LBS today.

18S 4P Zippy Lipo pack
66.6V 20Ah 15C

Stock Cyclone motor with class E windings
(well... rated as Class E.... which should be 120C)
The motor starts smoking at 125C

12221 KBL Kelly controller
Current limit set at 60A for low RPM, 120A for high RPM
(battery amps)

Takes about 6.5KW to accelerate hard.
Not scary hard at all, but respectable
Light to Light I eat cars up
Definitely faster than a 100V X5

Using an indexed shifter and a 9 speed cluster
Shifting is like an F1 car
Would be better with a closer ratio, gears above 5th are useless
Motor has a small power band (partly due to current limiting)

Motor has a very weird power band.
Peak torque feels like it is well short of peak RPM, maybe half
One sweet spot, above or below feels weak.

Everything is mounted on the most inefficient bike on earth
Huge knobby tires, heavy frame, non-aero position
I am positive this power setup could go "insane fast" if it were on a recumbent

The motor is terribly inefficient
Anyone short of an expert would burn it up without doubt at this power level
I have reached the absolute limit -> beyond the limit -> as I have actually let smoke out.

I was actually going to the LBS to buy all the parts I needed to convert my cartridge bottom bracket to old-school adjustable cup and spindle
The bow-legged cyclone spindle requires the old school cup
This means I down converted from a downhill cartridge, to a square cartridge, to an adjustable. Awesome, double-downgrade!

I am questioning whether or not to make this latest change now
Murphy says that if I do I will smoke the motor
If I dont then I will run the motor where it is (up high, out of the way of the pedals) for months

-methods

Great work Methy!!! Make sure to take good pictures of the carnage after that motor melts down Sounds like it's a screamer, I want to race it!

methods said:

Peak torque feels like it is well short of peak RPM, maybe half
One sweet spot, above or below feels weak.

Click to expand...

Patrick,

How could you expect peak torque at peak rpm?

Peak power will be at half no load speed.

Hmm, sounds like fun!

I love pushing things to their limit!

Matt

Dude,

That's awesome!!!



Now ....
you .....
can .....
drive ...
fifty five!!!

(sing it with Sammy)

Methods.. you are amazing

That should be very scary at 55mph right?

Soon i'll no longer have to ask this question.. The delta mode on the 5305 may revelate impressive performances!

Please post a video of that..

Nobody posted any video at that speed!... camera close up on the C-A and road to show it in real time would be a must!

Doc

Oh.. I forgot.. Steveo did... 92km/h.. but pretty dark video..

Doc

Wow....so it's great...but you can't push to much power without the fear of burning it.....

You had both a Crystalyte X5 and this.....what do you prefer ?

Do you notice a big difference on the way it drive (compared with X5)?

Is it a lot more noisy than X5?

But 55MPH sound amazing

Robin

Almasi-

Methy and I talked about it on the phone for an hour, and i can assure you that he definately likes it much better than the X5. And he is addicted to banging gears under full load and making it sound like an F1 car. I gotta admit that I would be addicted to that as well. I guess I need to buy an Alphine shamano hub or something, and get to re-doing my setup.

Miles said:

Patrick,
How could you expect peak torque at peak rpm?
Peak power will be at half no load speed.

Click to expand...

Thats a good question.
Seeing as how I have looked at the simulations a thousand times you would think I know that by now....
The logical side of my mind knows what the power curve looks like

I guess my brain is still used to evaluating performance on Honda engines
Generally the torque is a flat line and the HP just goes up with RPM
While I was riding the bike I remember thinking "that is weird, the power peaks then drops"

-methods

Doctorbass said:

Please post a video of that..
Doc

Click to expand...

I can do a video
Sound will be the best part.
F1 bike

Last night I moved the motor from the middle of the frame to down below the crank
This will greatly improve performance
Lower CG
Shorter Chain
More room for other equipment
Better routing.... With the last setup the chain ran 180 degrees around the 7 tooth motor sproket. This sounded AWFUL and it was always throwing off the tensioner
Last night I fired it up and it does not make half the noise. Motor is only an inch from the crank. Now at any load under FULL it is quiet. Before at any load at all it sounded like it was going to explode.

So the wife is mad and I have 2 tasks: Install a water spigot on the north side of the house and load the truck up for the dump. After I do that I can play again.
I have to mount my batteries, mount the Kelly, and I am good to go.

I can probably get a video tomorrow if not today.

btw: I am now charging at 75V 20A, so 1.5KW

-methods

Almasi said:

Wow....so it's great...but you can't push to much power without the fear of burning it.....

You had both a Crystalyte X5 and this.....what do you prefer ?

Do you notice a big difference on the way it drive (compared with X5)?

Is it a lot more noisy than X5?

Robin

Click to expand...

This is only a "one time drag race" setup. Cant sustain like the X5
Big difference in how it rides: X5 is like an automatic. This is like a stick-shift
Much noisier, but I did some work last night so we will see.

There will be no video.
I am taking a break for a month or two.
Not answering PM's

-methods

methods said:

There will be no video.
I am taking a break for a month or two.
Not answering PM's

-methods

Click to expand...

Ya right!..

One month or two

Ebike fun will catch you again! sooner than that i bet! :wink:

Doc

Methods,

Sorry to hear the wife put her foot down and no more ebike stuff for you for a month or two. Also, sorry to inform you that my completely stock hub motor+controller rig hit 55mph 2 days before you did. That's with a motor/controller and wheel combo that cost me about $200 shipped, plus of course 17s used Konions via Dr. Bass, Marty and YPedal. Once I make the move to Kelly brushless I fully expect 70mph without worries that I'm overheating anything. You guys may get me in the drag or off road, but given a nice stretch of concrete or asphalt of significant distance and I believe I'll get ya every time. I'm waiting for really cheap batteries before attempting an electric adrenaline rush, but in the meantime I believe ebikes are a quite valid form of transportation that blows cars away in traffic, and I'm one of those types that really HATES traffic. Now I have vehicles that beat motorcycles, since at the red lights, if nothing is coming I just hit a few cranks of the pedals plus throttle and I cruise on ahead of everyone.

John

It's not his wife causing the problem. He is just having a rough time with things at the moment. When he is ready again, he will be back better than ever before.

-Luke