Rieju 50cc conversion

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larsb   10 kW

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Re: Rieju 50cc conversion

Post by larsb » Oct 30 2018 5:20am

Couldn't get the bike moving today. I checked for faults and it seems controller is busted.

It doesn't read correct voltage and "undervoltage" error and "controller failure" is shown. After something like 50 on/off attempts finally controller turns on correctly. It loses the voltage reading again after two more attempts so driving is again lost.

Controller ON is full battery voltage and the B+ and B- is solidly connected, the other parameters like revolutions, high level and low level switch is shown correctly. Don't understand what can cause the voltage reading to get lost,

? maybe someone with controller build knowledge can explain how the voltage sensing circuit might be designed ? maybe it's fixable.
Or is it done in the microcontroller? (ie non fixable)
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System voltage
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This is sooo extremely annoying. I've had too many controllers dying on me in these five years in the ebike world. Maybe i'll just quit building and buy an e-scooter or something. :lowbatt: :lowbatt: :lowbatt:
Last edited by larsb on Oct 30 2018 12:13pm, edited 6 times in total.

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eee291   10 kW

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Re: Rieju 50cc conversion

Post by eee291 » Oct 30 2018 5:26am

Ouch! I guess my Kellys are still slightly more reliable then :D

I'm guessing that this is also partly your battery's fault :lowbatt:
You really need a more discharge capable battery.
The huge Voltage drops can't be good for any Controller.

larsb   10 kW

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Re: Rieju 50cc conversion

Post by larsb » Oct 30 2018 5:30am

I don't know.. Shortest kelly lifetime for me was three weeks. I am well into five weeks with the votol controller, that's close to double lifetime :D

larsb   10 kW

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Re: Rieju 50cc conversion

Post by larsb » Oct 30 2018 5:31am

Now that i have some downtime, maybe i'll build that capacitor bank..

larsb   10 kW

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Re: Rieju 50cc conversion

Post by larsb » Oct 30 2018 5:35am

The huge Voltage drops can't be good for any Controller.
Why? Is controller really affected by the drop, i'd guess it's not except for a lower possible output of power. Do you have any backing to this?

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: Rieju 50cc conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Oct 30 2018 6:27am

larsb wrote:
Oct 30 2018 5:35am
The huge Voltage drops can't be good for any Controller.
Why? Is controller really affected by the drop, i'd guess it's not except for a lower possible output of power. Do you have any backing to this?
Nice build! Thanks for posting this. That motor looks like a great deal!

What do you do to waterproof your controllers? It looks like your bike gets left outside in the cold and wet percipitation and water could possibly get into the smaller unused wiring of the system causing issues. You seem to have bad luck with controllers...ive never had a kelly fail me yet

larsb   10 kW

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Re: Rieju 50cc conversion

Post by larsb » Oct 30 2018 8:09am

I normally shield all connections, on the later builds i've cut the connectors that i didn't use and put heatshrink with glue on the exposed ends. I've had issues with creep currents before i did this, especially in wet snow.

I use waterproof connectors too, for this build jwpf type.

I'd be really happy i could find a root cause to the controller issues..

larsb   10 kW

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Re: Rieju 50cc conversion

Post by larsb » Nov 03 2018 2:12am

I'll be connecting an APT AE96600 controller i had lying around. It's such a brick that i'll have to cut the seat shorter but it's speced to give at least 600A. If that breaks in a short time then i don't know what to do.. wish me luck!
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larsb   10 kW

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Re: Rieju 50cc conversion

Post by larsb » Nov 03 2018 2:23pm

I made two clamps for the controller today, nothing fancy, just function.
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The sheer weight of this thing.. I believe the designers didn't go for more FETs in it despite the size, only more thermal mass. Easy way to accomplish cooling but i doubt the performance already.

Hope my family let me wire it up tomorrow :D

jonnydrive   100 W

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Re: Rieju 50cc conversion

Post by jonnydrive » Nov 05 2018 8:50am

larsb wrote:
Oct 30 2018 5:20am
Couldn't get the bike moving today. I checked for faults and it seems controller is busted.
I know how frustrating can be, I am sorry for you trouble with the new Votol controller.

What are your thoughts about the QS-Motor support for broken/malfunctioning components?

larsb   10 kW

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Re: Rieju 50cc conversion

Post by larsb » Nov 06 2018 2:06pm

This is the first i will try to replace on warranty from QS, so far i haven't received any answer. I will follow-up until i get it.

I wired the APT controller and got it working tonight. It was actually (sort of) plug-and-play when i shifted the halls setting 60 degrees like the setting was on the Votol controller. Only hickup was that it didn't want to communicate the first few attempts but woke up after i restarted the program.

There's like 150 settings, many of them i don't know what they do.. But it works as it is :D

It's got some more punch than the Votol controller for sure.. I think the bike would wheelie now if i had the skills and a better battery 8)

jonnydrive   100 W

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Re: Rieju 50cc conversion

Post by jonnydrive » Nov 09 2018 2:37am

guys,
sabvoton 72150 or votol 150? on Aliexpress there are out at the same price (more or less).

larsb   10 kW

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Re: Rieju 50cc conversion

Post by larsb » Nov 09 2018 5:20am

I think you have a good question.. I wonder if there'll be an answer. Unlikely that anyone has tried both since the Votol is not used so much yet.

jonnydrive   100 W

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Re: Rieju 50cc conversion

Post by jonnydrive » Nov 09 2018 6:25am

larsb wrote:
Nov 09 2018 5:20am
I think you have a good question.. I wonder if there'll be an answer. Unlikely that anyone has tried both since the Votol is not used so much yet.
QS suggest Votol 150, probably is the best for plug & play....if it works..... :flame:

larsb   10 kW

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Re: Rieju 50cc conversion

Post by larsb » Nov 09 2018 7:57am

I might get a new votol on warranty, in communication with QS now. I quite like the votol program and controller dimensions, works well in my setup.

jonnydrive   100 W

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Re: Rieju 50cc conversion

Post by jonnydrive » Nov 10 2018 11:54am

I just joined to the qs 3000w motor owner club! :D

I choose the 10 tooth 420 driven sprocket, relying to Lars and Bionincon build it should be a fine bot for off-road (with a 70 tooth sprocket) and road (with a 50 tooth sprocket) with a 18" wheel. In case I can always change the sprocket with a bigger one to reduce noise and rolling chain wear.

For my build, at the first stage, I will keep the gearbox to use less power possibile and extend the range of my trial ride. I need at least 400nm of wheel torque in hard single track trail ride.

I also choosed for Voltol controller, to have the maximum compatibility with the motor.

larsb   10 kW

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Re: Rieju 50cc conversion

Post by larsb » Nov 10 2018 12:35pm

Looking forward to seeing your build! I am sure you'll be happy with the kit :D

My moped with the apt96600 controller pulls as much as i would ever need. Will gear it down later to get max power around 40 km/h where i use it the most.

Goodbye and good riddance to the Revolt motors! :D

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madin88   100 MW

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Re: Rieju 50cc conversion

Post by madin88 » Nov 11 2018 8:30am

larsb wrote:
Nov 03 2018 2:12am
I'll be connecting an APT AE96600 controller i had lying around. It's such a brick that i'll have to cut the seat shorter but it's speced to give at least 600A. If that breaks in a short time then i don't know what to do.. wish me luck!
ae96600.JPG
I still think the root of the problem could be the long battery wires and also battery impedance.
Maybe you do not need that much of luck if you improve this first :)

I wonder if those APD controllers have things like FOC, torque mode throttle or option for field weakening?
To get all the benefits from an IMP motor design it would be optimal to have a controller which can do field weakening already from 0 RPM.

larsb   10 kW

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Re: Rieju 50cc conversion

Post by larsb » Nov 11 2018 8:41am

I have shortened all wires as much as possible and taped them together. The controller has FOC (if you believe it) and field weakening.

I'll check if it's got torque throttle or not. With the massive amounts of settings possible it should be there..

larsb   10 kW

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Re: Rieju 50cc conversion

Post by larsb » Nov 20 2018 4:47pm

I've changed my mind on the APT controller.. i think it seems pretty good, program is hard to figure out but some energy has gotten into designing the controller.

Sadly, i have lost one of the battery packs. I don't know how many cycles it's got, between 500-1000 and most of them above the current rating so it has had it's life..

i'm lucky enough to have some LG automotive cells waiting for me at the shipper :D so i'm soon back up again with some decent power

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