crank freewheel dimensions?

X2flier

10 W
Joined
Jun 25, 2018
Messages
79
Hey, DNG here, and kinda lost. Found a few thousand older posts about crank freewheels, but nothing (yet) about physical sizes.

I want to put a front crank freewheel into an old mountain bike. I need to know the dimensions of the industry-standard crank freewheels, if any. The most popular sizes would be helpful, too. I have a front crank tube in the old bike frame that is about 2.5" (63mm?) wide and about 1.375" (35 mm?) inside diameter. Any smaller diameter crank freewheel assembly would be a "drop-in" cartridge solution for me, if it is long (wide) enough. I would hope to have three chainwheels on the front crank, which can turn freely without the pedals moving.

If nothing fits inside the crank tube that I have now, then I'd need to weld the housing for the new crank freewheel into the bike frame that I have.

Dimensions only, or a recommended crank freewheel by Part Number, would be of good help here.
 
silence said:
Perhaps this thread?
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=56565
silence,

Ummm . . . no. The stock front pedal-crank shaft (on bearings) lives inside a short pipe that is the bottom junction of the bike frame. A crank freewheel assembly goes into the same place as the original crank, and carries the pedals and chainwheels. What I need is a freewheel assembly that fits inside that existing pipe, replacing the stock pedal crank.

This image (below) is a pedal crank freewheel, and I need the dimensions of the center shaft assembly, so I will know if it will fit into my bike frame:

large.jpg


I would need everything pictured, because the old pedal cranks would not fit on the new crank shaft. The picture shows two chainwheels, but I would prefer a group of three or four chainwheels there, if possible. First, though, the center shaft and bearing assembly would need to fit into my bike frame. I can make everything else work, from there.
 
It sounds like you want to do something different than the usual freewheeling chainring on the cranks, which works like this:

Normally, for such a set of cranks, the righthand crank has standard freewheel (like a rear hub) threads on it.

Then the freewheel (like a regular singlespeed for a rear wheel, but with flange wtih boltholes rather than teeth) screws onto the righthand crank.

Then the triple (or whatever) chainring set bolts to that flange.

Thus the triple can spin without spnning the cranks, but the cranks will cause the triple to spin.

The dimensions of all these parts are the same as rear hub freewheels; threaded cranks are available on the market so you don't have to make one (but you could). the Sheldon Brown website has dimensions of different brands/types/styles of various bike parts, but the ISO 24TPI / 1.375" diameter stuff is what I've seen on existing freewheeling cranks.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/freewheels.html



I don't know of an existing freewheel system that fits inside the BB (bottom bracket) shell, though if you look a few years back in the non-hub motor subforum, there is at least one thread working on designing such a system, possibly started by Fechter but I don't remember for sure.



As far as the parts shown in that picture, AFAICS it's just a normal crankset except for the freewheel (which would go on the righthand crank, which would be threaded, but it doesn't show the threaded area on the crank for whatever reason).

it shows a regular old square-taper type BB unit (probably cartridge type), and crankset to match.

If your bike uses square-taper cranks, then all you need is the righthand crank with threads, and an appropriate freewheel (like the White Industries ENO, IIRC), and then chainrings with the right BCD and hole spacing for that freewheel's flange (or machine yourself an adapter ring or set of rings that convert the BCD of the chainrings you have or want to use to the BCD of the freewheel flange).


This is some info on BBs that may help you identify yours and give you more info you could use:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-bottombrackets.html

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html




https://www.sheldonbrown.com/sheldonSearch.html?q=bottom%20bracket
 
amberwolf said:
It sounds like you want to do something different than the usual freewheeling chainring on the cranks, which works like this:
Normally, for such a set of cranks, the righthand crank has standard freewheel (like a rear hub) threads on it. Then the freewheel (like a regular singlespeed for a rear wheel, but with flange wtih boltholes rather than teeth) screws onto the righthand crank. Then the triple (or whatever) chainring set bolts to that flange. Thus the triple can spin without spnning the cranks, but the cranks will cause the triple to spin.
Amberwolf,

Not sure what you think I am trying to do, but I want exactly the results that you describe, done exactly as you described it. Your links are helpful; I think I have a British ISO BB on my bike.

The plan is this: I want to use a mid-drive motor (anything with a chain drive on the motor shaft, and a freewheel on the motor shaft). The motor turns the freewheeling chainrings though one of the chainrings. Motor power runs through the normal bike gears, to increase the hill-climbing ability and to lower the drain on the batteries. When I pedal, I will not be turning the motor (which has that separate freewheel on its' shaft). The motor can drive the chainrings, without the pedals moving.
The dimensions of all these parts are the same as rear hub freewheels; threaded cranks are available on the market so you don't have to make one (but you could). the Sheldon Brown website has dimensions of different brands/types/styles of various bike parts, but the ISO 24TPI / 1.375" diameter stuff is what I've seen on existing freewheeling cranks.
I would certainly buy (not make) the threaded crank that I need. Got any sources?
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/freewheels.html
I don't know of an existing freewheel system that fits inside the BB (bottom bracket) shell, though if you look a few years back in the non-hub motor subforum, there is at least one thread working on designing such a system, possibly started by Fechter but I don't remember for sure.
Sorry, maybe I missed something. What DOES a freewheel crank system fit into?
As far as the parts shown in that picture, AFAICS it's just a normal crankset except for the freewheel (which would go on the righthand crank, which would be threaded, but it doesn't show the threaded area on the crank for whatever reason). it shows a regular old square-taper type BB unit (probably cartridge type), and crankset to match. If your bike uses square-taper cranks, then all you need is the righthand crank with threads, and an appropriate freewheel (like the White Industries ENO, IIRC), and then chainrings with the right BCD and hole spacing for that freewheel's flange (or machine yourself an adapter ring or set of rings that convert the BCD of the chainrings you have or want to use to the BCD of the freewheel flange).
I think all my bike stuff comes from the last Ice Age. :lol: I'd sure need the square-tapered pedal cranks. The illustration was not from a bike site, so they probably just missed the threaded part of the shaft, not for any good reason.
This is some info on BBs that may help you identify yours and give you more info you could use:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-bottombrackets.html
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/sheldonSearch.html?q=bottom%20bracket
Thanks for that, it helps.
 
X2flier said:
Not sure what you think I am trying to do,
It sounded like you wanted the freewheel inside the BB shell, which is what that design I mentioned was trying to do (though I don't remember why).


but I want exactly the results that you describe, done exactly as you described it. Your links are helpful; I think I have a British ISO BB on my bike.

Then you probably already have square taper cranks, so all you need is a crank puller, available at just about any local bike shop, or online, so you can take the righthand crank off, and replace it with the threaded freewheel crank, after installing the freewheel and chainrings onto the crank.

(most likley also need a 15mm socket wrench or 6-7mm allen key to tighten the crank bolts after installing the new one, plus whatever tools to assemble the freewheel to the chainrings, and a box wrench to take the pedal off the old crank and put it on the new one).

If the crank is not the same length as your left crank, you'll probably want to change that one too, but 170mm is the common length for most cranks, including the FW ones I've seen (and the one I have here).

No need to change the BB itself out (whether cartridge or individual shaft, cups, and bearings).

The plan is this: I want to use a mid-drive motor (anything with a chain drive on the motor shaft, and a freewheel on the motor shaft). The motor turns the freewheeling chainrings though one of the chainrings. Motor power runs through the normal bike gears, to increase the hill-climbing ability and to lower the drain on the batteries. When I pedal, I will not be turning the motor (which has that separate freewheel on its' shaft). The motor can drive the chainrings, without the pedals moving.
Sounds like a typical middrive-thru-the-gears type. There's a lot of different types in various threads in the non-hub motor section if you need examples of mountings, motors, reductions, etc. Everything from DD and geared hubmotors (not in wheels) to RC motors and everything in between and outside those; chain and belt drives, etc.

I would certainly buy (not make) the threaded crank that I need. Got any sources?

None specific; I got mine from a member here that wasn't using it anymore.


Google shows a few
https://www.google.com/search?q=freewheel+crank+set&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Sickbikeparts has been a common source for stuff here on the forum.


Sorry, maybe I missed something. What DOES a freewheel crank system fit into?

The one mentioned that was being designed just replaces the existing BB set, mounting into the BB shell exactly like the original, and then mount normal crank arms and stuff on it (though I think they might've been using ISIS cranks.

The standard ones are easier; they just mount onto the existing BB (usually square taper; the old standard like you probably have).




I think all my bike stuff comes from the last Ice Age. :lol: I'd sure need the square-tapered pedal cranks.
Everything I have is at least that old, too; I pickup things from Freecycle, Goodwill, and the like, and friends that dig things they figure they'll never use again out of garages and sheds.

Mostly I cut it up and build what I actually need and want out of them (cuz nobody makes that).




The illustration was not from a bike site, so they probably just missed the threaded part of the shaft, not for any good reason.

I suspect they just left it out of their CAD work for simplicity or laziness--most likely they used existing CAD models for regular cranks and other parts, and just sliced off or deleted teh polygons for the area where the threaded part would be, and didn't bother buildng the threaded area itself.
 
Amberwolf,,

Okay, thanks, things are getting clearer here. That incomplete drawing was part of the problem. Since it did not show a threaded freewheel fitting on the pedal crank, I was thinking the freewheel mechanism was living inside the BB somehow. Now I see how a threaded freewheel would work, mounted on the pedal crank shaft.

I still needed the dimensions of the crankshaft/ bearings/ races assembly, to go inside the BB, but your links may have given me that information. Guess I'll have to buy the likely one and try it.

History stuff: My pedal cranks each have a tapered pin that has one flat side, and threads at one end. The flat side of the tapered pin fits into a flat spot on the round pedal crank shaft, and a nut holds the tapered pin in place. I have nothing with square tapered cranks now; I will need new pedal cranks.
 
X2flier said:
History stuff: My pedal cranks each have a tapered pin that has one flat side, and threads at one end. The flat side of the tapered pin fits into a flat spot on the round pedal crank shaft, and a nut holds the tapered pin in place.
Yeah, those are called cottered cranks (see the sheldon brown site for more info if you like).

You can buy a square-taper cartridge BB that will mount right in there, along with the threaded endcaps (if they don't come with the cartridge), plus a pair of cranks to get the leftside crank (if the freewheel crank does't come as a pair). Most likely a 63mm will fit your BB. (that's what fit the only cotterless crank bike I've ever had, when I replaced the BB in it, though I used one out of another bike I'd scrapped the frame of).

Since you won't be reusing any of the parts from the cranks or BB, you can use regular tools to get the cranks off, undoing the nut and hammering the pin out, then rotate or pull the crank off each side.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cotters.html

Assuming you're not reusing the parts, then if you have an angle grinder you can just cut thru the axle behind the crank, and skip all the stuff on that page. ;)

Then use an adjustable wrench or pipe wrench that can expand it's flats far enough to grip the flats of the bearing cups on each side of the BB to take those out. If yours is like the typical square-taper BB shell, then one will unscrew in the counterclockwise direction and the other will unscrew in the clockwise, when you're facing their outboard side.

But it's possible that both might have the same threading, rather than opposite, if the frame is old enough, and in that case, I'm not sure if you'll find a new cartridge squaretaper BB that will have the right endcaps for it (since those typically have different threadings on each end). You might have to keep the old BB cups (and possibly bearings), and use a non-cartridge type square taper BB spindle to replace the old cottered spindle with.


http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html
 
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