Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

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jpc6000   10 W

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Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Sep 07 2018 7:06am

These connector have the same connections and almost the same color, only the last is white/blue
20180907_135837 (Groot).jpg

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jpc6000   10 W

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Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Sep 07 2018 7:15am

The other connector out of the bafang have 6 connections, the connector from the phaserunner 4
20180907_141206 (Groot).jpg

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Daxxie   10 W

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Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by Daxxie » Sep 07 2018 8:59am

jpc6000 wrote:
Sep 07 2018 4:28am
alu and tita are good heat conductors.
Titanium is terrible as a heat conductor.
jpc6000 wrote:
Sep 07 2018 4:28am
Removing the Bafang controllerboards, (bad work bafang already affected by acid)
Mine looked the same.
Image
jpc6000 wrote:
Sep 07 2018 4:28am
How can I fill this cap from the old cables :?:
Depends, you could use the old one like I did.
Image

But then you have to cut up the old cables/connectors.
You probably want to have the ability to mount the old controller again.

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Daxxie   10 W

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Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by Daxxie » Sep 07 2018 9:00am

jpc6000 wrote:
Sep 07 2018 7:06am
These connector have the same connections and almost the same color, only the last is white/blue
The white cable on the Ultra's Hall connector a is a 10K thermistor.
You can connect that to the CA3.

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Daxxie   10 W

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Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by Daxxie » Sep 07 2018 9:10am

jpc6000 wrote:
Sep 07 2018 6:40am
connecting the Bafang to the controller
No they don't!
Get some JST connectors and higo cables from https://www.e-bike-technologies.de/index.php/de/

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jpc6000   10 W

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Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Sep 07 2018 9:25am

Daxxie wrote:
Sep 07 2018 9:00am
jpc6000 wrote:
Sep 07 2018 7:06am
These connector have the same connections and almost the same color, only the last is white/blue
The white cable on the Ultra's Hall connector a is a 10K thermistor.
You can connect that to the CA3.
white to blue is ok?

I have ordered JST connectoren and tool.
Then I can connect the wires like on picture now.

And the other connector the Bafang white 6 wires (torque sensor I think) CA 4 wires

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jpc6000   10 W

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Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Sep 07 2018 9:41am

Depends, you could use the old one like I did.
Image

But then you have to cut up the old cables/connectors like I thought also.

[/quote]
Yes, I can remove the old cables, en fill the gaps with sillicone.
But I shall place the controller outside,
with the controller inside you get the heat of the controller and the motor together.
And Bafang say the max temp of the motor is 60C but I think 70C is also good?

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jpc6000   10 W

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Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Sep 07 2018 1:05pm

jpc6000 wrote:
Sep 07 2018 7:06am
These connector have the same connections and almost the same color, only the last is white/blue

20180907_135837 (Groot).jpg
These connector is orginal not connected

Do I have to connect any of these connection, also the white cable, that come out of the motor, maybe torque sensor? The connector go to LJ connector on the controller

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Daxxie   10 W

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Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by Daxxie » Sep 08 2018 2:39am

jpc6000 wrote:
Sep 07 2018 1:05pm
These connector is orginal not connected

Do I have to connect any of these connection, also the white cable, that come out of the motor, maybe torque sensor?
I hope this helps.


Phase
Phase wires go to Phase wires on Phaserunner
Image

Hall
Hall Connector has 6 wires.
5V and Ground + 3 Hall sensors and a white cable that is a NTC thermistor that you can connect to the CA to monitor the temperature.
You can also decide to put another NTC yourself or even don't use a NTC at all.
Image

PAS
Well this was the difficult one. It took some time before I figured this one out.
The Ultra's PAS needs 5V, you can steal 5V and ground from the CA or from the Phaserunner. (There is 5V and ground at the PR throttle connector.)
The CA didn't pick up the PAS signal from my Ultra. I had to add a 20K pull-down resistor between Pas signal and ground to make this work.
The Green Dir cable is not used
The Purple Pas Phaseshift is connected to the dir tab on the CA
Brown Torque goes to the Trq on the CA.

My Ultra had a Higo6 connector for the PAS with the right colours, which made it a bit easier.
Image

This is a diagram I made:

Image

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jpc6000   10 W

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Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Sep 08 2018 12:53pm

Great thanks for the clear explanation en drawings

For the torque sensor cable from the Bafang have 6 wires, how to figure out which cables I need
mine cables are all white! :roll:
+5V and negative with voltmeter

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by fechter » Sep 08 2018 9:45pm

jpc6000 wrote:
Sep 07 2018 9:41am
Depends, you could use the old one like I did.
Image
Will a Phaserunner actually fit inside the housing?
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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jpc6000   10 W

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Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Sep 09 2018 2:55am

I found your video on you tube :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZx5Gwy ... e=youtu.be

I have the same tita frame and also alu hardtail and full suspension for the Bafang ultra

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jpc6000   10 W

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Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Sep 09 2018 3:06am

fechter wrote:
Sep 08 2018 9:45pm
jpc6000 wrote:
Sep 07 2018 9:41am
Depends, you could use the old one like I did.
Image
Will a Phaserunner actually fit inside the housing?
The phaserunner have already outside problems with the head so I think its better outside
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=82196&p=1407714&hil ... g#p1407714

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Daxxie   10 W

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Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by Daxxie » Sep 09 2018 3:11am

jpc6000 wrote:
Sep 08 2018 12:53pm
Great thanks for the clear explanation en drawings
For the torque sensor cable from the Bafang have 6 wires, how to figure out which cables I need
mine cables are all white! :roll:
+5V and negative with voltmeter
+5V and GND is easy.
You can see it on the backside of the controller board.
Image


I still have a picture of my plug that will make it easier.
Image

orange | purple | white
black | brown | green

These colors correspond with :

+5V | Pasphase | PAS
Gnd | Torque | Speed/Dir

Image

You can check with a multimeter

Between Gnd and PAS : gives you a pulse signal when rotating the crank FWD and REV 0V | 5V | 0V | 5V etc...

Between Gnd and PASphase : gives you a pulse signal when rotating the crank FWD and REV 0V | 5V | 0V | 5V etc...

Between Gnd and Speed/Dir : gives you a pulse signal (0V or 5V) when rotating the crank FWD and 5V constant when pedaling backwards

Between Gnd and Torque : gives around 1V and a bit more when you put torque on the pedals.

This is a video I made from PAS and Speed/Dir signal on a scope.
(Top signal is PAS, bottom is Speed/Dir)

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jpc6000   10 W

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Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Sep 09 2018 3:14am

Fantastic info, thanks :P :D

this information has saved me a lot of time

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Daxxie   10 W

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Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by Daxxie » Sep 09 2018 3:31am

fechter wrote:
Sep 08 2018 9:45pm
Will a Phaserunner actually fit inside the housing?
Well I had to squeeze it in a bit :-)
Some more info in my build thread

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=96212
jpc6000 wrote:
Sep 09 2018 3:06am
The phaserunner have already outside problems with the head so I think its better outside
I disagree. The Phaserunner has no problems up to 50A.
It also has a thermal rollback in case of to much heat.

And I'm not even planning on using 50A. More like 72V @40A
I attached the Phaserunner with bolts and plenty of thermal grease to the outside cover of the Ultra.
After a 30m test it hardly went over 25°C

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jpc6000   10 W

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Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Sep 09 2018 3:58am

Hi,

How do you get 72V?
At 72V how fast drive your e-bike?
Mine battery case is the same, and I can put 4p x 15s = 60 max in case, 63V
Case 65 battery's max without bms
With 13A battery x 4= 52A max
After +/-15 km battery empty with Bafang BBS02 1200W max
With Bafang ultra probably after 10km at 3000watt
Not far for commuting e-bikes
Your environment is maybe cold, that he keep cool,
Mine bbs02 is after driving 1h very hot, with Bafang ultra drive I think even hotter at 25C outside.

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Daxxie   10 W

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Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by Daxxie » Sep 09 2018 5:44am

jpc6000 wrote:
Sep 09 2018 3:58am
How do you get 72V?
Mine battery case is the same, and I can put 4p x 15s = 60 max in case, 63V
Case 65 battery's max without bms
With 13A battery x 4= 52A max
I'm building a 20S5P 30Q battery for this bike.

The one in the video is the battery of my BBSHD Ludicrous bike.
It has 70cells 14S5P.
Yes, it is possible to squeeze 70 in there and a BMS.

I would advise at least 5P
My BBSHD bike (2000W) has a range of 45km

jpc6000 wrote:
Sep 09 2018 3:58am
Your environment is maybe cold, that he keep cool,
Mine bbs02 is after driving 1h very hot, with Bafang ultra drive I think even hotter at 25C outside.
I'm also Belgian so same environment.
You can not compare a bbs02 with a BBSHD or Ultra.
bbs02 overheats very easy.

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jpc6000   10 W

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Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Sep 09 2018 8:04am

How do you get 70 battery's in the HaiLong E-bike battery case + BMS :?:
This should be for me better, than I can use 72V the Bike shall be faster and drive little bit further
Maybe you have smaller BMS :idea:

I prefer a smart BMS

the 17S 100A Smart EV li ion battery PCB board Bluetooth Mobile BMS for 71.4V Li-Ion 18650 with Communication and mos screen.
Size :Max180*140*15 mm

I tought to place the BMS maybe in the frame, but for load, its not possible with all the wires
And the battery SAMSUNG INR18650-35E UNPROTECTED 3500Mah /13A max
17x4=68 battery's
15S 30A/40A/60A active bms 2017 new Li-ion smart bms pcm with android Bluetooth app UART bms wi software (APP) monitor
16-20S size: 95x87x10 constant current 50A this is better and smaller
In what case 20S5P ?

I have a case for the back rack for 128Pcs
electric bike rear rack battery aluminum shell
Internal Dimension : 290mm*144mm*68mm
17x7= 119 battery's

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Richard N   100 W

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Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by Richard N » Sep 11 2018 8:51am

I have a quick question about the Phaserunner that I can't find an answer too.

Will a Phaserunner work with a Bafang head unit, or is it designed for use with a CA only?

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Daxxie   10 W

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Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by Daxxie » Sep 11 2018 9:19am

Richard N wrote:
Sep 11 2018 8:51am
I have a quick question about the Phaserunner that I can't find an answer too.
Will a Phaserunner work with a Bafang head unit, or is it designed for use with a CA only?
CA only

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Richard N   100 W

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Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by Richard N » Sep 11 2018 9:27am

Daxxie wrote:
Sep 11 2018 9:19am
Richard N wrote:
Sep 11 2018 8:51am
I have a quick question about the Phaserunner that I can't find an answer too.
Will a Phaserunner work with a Bafang head unit, or is it designed for use with a CA only?
CA only
That's what I though. Thank you.

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jpc6000   10 W

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Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Sep 15 2018 3:44am

I have done the autotune test it worked flawlessly
20180915_103247 (Groot).jpg
autotune.png
Do I need change some other parameters?

Regen phase, batt curr, voltage start/end to 0 ? :?:

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jpc6000   10 W

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Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Oct 15 2018 11:35am

Hi,

torque sensor not working.
I only have multi meter
Gnd / pas turning change 0v and 5v
Gnd /pas phase shift turning changing 0v and 5v backwords change nothing
Gnd / torque fixed 0,8V nothing change by turning!
GND /pas resistor 20K

I do not understand :roll:

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Daxxie   10 W

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Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by Daxxie » Oct 15 2018 12:24pm

jpc6000 wrote:
Oct 15 2018 11:35am
Gnd / pas turning change 0v and 5v
This is normal behaviour for PAS and PAS Phaseshift signal.
Voltage changes between 0 and 5V when pedaling forward AND reverse


jpc6000 wrote: Gnd /pas phase shift turning changing 0v and 5v backwords change nothing
Voltage changes between 0 and 5V when pedaling forward AND NO Voltage change when reversing?
That must be the DIR signal.


jpc6000 wrote: Gnd / torque fixed 0,8V nothing change by turning!
That is correct. Torque voltage doesnt change when pedaling, only changes when torque is applied.
You can test that with a vice grip on the outgoing axle (teeth for the chainring spider) and applying torque to the pedal.
jpc6000 wrote: GND /pas resistor 20K
Don't know what you mean by that.

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