Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
User avatar
jpc6000   10 W

10 W
Posts: 80
Joined: Sep 03 2017 6:57am
Location: gent

Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Oct 16 2018 7:33am

when I turn the cranck, does the engine have to start?

User avatar
Daxxie   10 W

10 W
Posts: 68
Joined: Feb 14 2017 9:35am

Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by Daxxie » Oct 16 2018 7:41am

jpc6000 wrote:
Oct 16 2018 7:33am
when I turn the cranck, does the engine have to start?
Depends on your PAS settings in CA3.

User avatar
jpc6000   10 W

10 W
Posts: 80
Joined: Sep 03 2017 6:57am
Location: gent

Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Oct 16 2018 9:23am

I have change nothing in CA configuration
What is standard?

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 14111
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by neptronix » Oct 16 2018 11:17am

Very cool thread.
Two things though..

Bafang has a history of underbuilding things. You might see a wonderfully huge stator here, but i'd bet the drivetrain is not as tough.. i would run a low phase amp to battery amp ratio. This means you want low initial torque. Program the controller to give more of a flattish torque response vs one with a strong peak in it, and you can help protect the drivetrain from extra stress. Us geared motor guys have been using that trick to boost power without destroying those nylon gears for a long time.. :)

Secondly, consider heatsinking the phaserunner to the case very very well. The phase runner can go into temperature limiting at high power without additional heatsinking and air flowing through it. Here, you're sharing the motor heat and the controller heat in the same space and air is not helping you much unless you thermally link the controller to the outside case. I would use those bolt holes on the phaserunner and some copper shims and maybe even thermal paste to create a thermal link between the phaserunner and the bafang case... at a minimum!

Best wishes on this project!
-nep
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

User avatar
Daxxie   10 W

10 W
Posts: 68
Joined: Feb 14 2017 9:35am

Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by Daxxie » Oct 17 2018 4:23am

jpc6000 wrote:
Oct 16 2018 9:23am
I have change nothing in CA configuration
What is standard?
With the Torque sensor correctly wired and these settings your motor should engage when you turn the crank.
Don't forget the 20.000Ω resistor between PAS and GND

Image

devo1223   100 W

100 W
Posts: 227
Joined: Nov 06 2012 4:32pm
Location: Lake Tahoe,CA

Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by devo1223 » Oct 18 2018 3:14pm

Ivanovitch_k wrote:
Aug 05 2018 5:03pm


Image
Sorry I'm not very electrically inclined. Is that an IPM motor I'm looking at? Does anyone know if the BBHD is as well?
Vector lite stuffed with 30Qs
Mxus 3k turbo 3t in 17in moto rim
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=92531&p=1353484&hil ... e#p1353484

User avatar
jpc6000   10 W

10 W
Posts: 80
Joined: Sep 03 2017 6:57am
Location: gent

Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Oct 19 2018 2:47am

devo1223 wrote:
Oct 18 2018 3:14pm
Ivanovitch_k wrote:
Aug 05 2018 5:03pm

Sorry I'm not very electrically inclined. I IPM ms that anotor I'm looking at? Does anyone know if the BBHD is as well?
I don't think that is that an IPM motor. Why do you ask? :!:

User avatar
jpc6000   10 W

10 W
Posts: 80
Joined: Sep 03 2017 6:57am
Location: gent

Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Oct 23 2018 3:40am

It has 70cells 14S5P.
Yes, it is possible to squeeze 70 in there and a BMS

I have try to find an BMS 17S +/=50A, but all are to big to fit in the ANN batterycase :?:
And some pictures, how that you squeeze 70 18650 battery's in the case.

User avatar
Daxxie   10 W

10 W
Posts: 68
Joined: Feb 14 2017 9:35am

Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by Daxxie » Oct 23 2018 5:36am

jpc6000 wrote:
Oct 23 2018 3:40am
And some pictures, how that you squeeze 70 18650 battery's in the case.
Finding a 17S 50A BMS that will fit the case... won't be easy.

Cell layout:
You can find these pics online:
Image

But this layout will NOT fit a Jumbo shark case (Hailong 2)
The top row of 6 cells has to move 1 cell to the right.
And you can not use the switch and the USB plug that come with the case.

Layout should be like this.

Image

But the spacing between cells has to be very accurate.
I always make a mold first with my CNC router to make sure the cells are correctly glued.
Picture of a 14S4P mold.

Image


I used the Hailong switch to power up my Phaserunner.
Image

User avatar
jpc6000   10 W

10 W
Posts: 80
Joined: Sep 03 2017 6:57am
Location: gent

Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Oct 23 2018 5:53am

I have found a BMS with good dimensions I think :D
but it's not a smart BMS
bms17s50a.png
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/17S-li- ... 92803.html
bms17s50a p2.png
bms17s50a p2.png (172.56 KiB) Viewed 1852 times

User avatar
Daxxie   10 W

10 W
Posts: 68
Joined: Feb 14 2017 9:35am

Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by Daxxie » Oct 23 2018 8:22am

jpc6000 wrote:
Oct 23 2018 5:53am
I have found a BMS with good dimensions I think :D
but it's not a smart BMS
What power are you aiming for?

On the previous page you said:
jpc6000 wrote:
Sep 09 2018 8:04am
This should be for me better, than I can use 72V ...

the 17S 100A Smart EV li ion battery PCB board Bluetooth Mobile BMS for 71.4V Li-Ion 18650

And the battery SAMSUNG INR18650-35E UNPROTECTED 3500Mah /13A max
17x4=68 battery's
Samsung INR18650-35E only has a continuous discharge of 8A
Nominal voltage is 3.6V so a 17S gives 61.2V nominal.

A 17S4P Will give you 61.2V with a continuous discharge of 32A = 61.2x32 = 1.958Watts (827Wh)

You should go for the Samsung 30Q with a continuous discharge of 15A and a 50A BMS 61.2Vx50= 3.060Watts (724Wh)

or if you want a bit more range: 14S5P Sanyo NCR18650GA continuous discharge of 10A 52Vx50= 2600Watts (912Wh)

User avatar
jpc6000   10 W

10 W
Posts: 80
Joined: Sep 03 2017 6:57am
Location: gent

Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Oct 25 2018 8:52am

there are new cells
Samsung INR21700-40T 4000mAh - 30A
17S4P Will give you 61.2V with a continuous discharge of 120A = 61.2x120 = 7344Watts :lol:

User avatar
TorEddy   100 W

100 W
Posts: 155
Joined: Nov 11 2009 4:46pm
Location: Oslo, Norway
Contact:

Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by TorEddy » Nov 07 2018 1:43pm

From exess-bikes:

The only problem is the controller because Bafang has made several versions which are not compatible. But we are currently developing our own controller which will be much more reliable, more efficient (higher range), better software, better protection. It will be available end of 2018. It fit in the place where the Bafang controller is mounted, so it just replaces the Bafang Controller. It comes with all bikes from January 2019 and it will be available as an aftersales part as well. So the customers having already an EXESS bike can use this controller also.

Will you be able to run more than 30A through the new controller?

yes we will be able to run more than 30A. I don’t know yet how much current we will enable, this needs to be determined.

User avatar
jpc6000   10 W

10 W
Posts: 80
Joined: Sep 03 2017 6:57am
Location: gent

Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Nov 15 2018 9:25am

pas not working

I have change config ca to your info.
But its not working?
In config pas I see only second bar go up and down
the other do not change!
this is two wire torque pas, so something is wrong! :confused:

PAS->SensrType identifies the interface as either 1-Wire (Dir) or 2-Wire (Dir+RPM). Proper setting may be determined by going to the SETUP PAS SENSOR screen, rotating the crank, and seeing if one or both of the 'P' and 'D' arrows alternate up and down. If one, it is a 1-wire sensor, if both it is 2-Wire.

Whats wrong?

User avatar
Daxxie   10 W

10 W
Posts: 68
Joined: Feb 14 2017 9:35am

Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by Daxxie » Nov 15 2018 11:26am

jpc6000 wrote:
Nov 15 2018 9:25am
pas not working
.............
Whats wrong?
Did you install a 20K resistor?

User avatar
jpc6000   10 W

10 W
Posts: 80
Joined: Sep 03 2017 6:57am
Location: gent

Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Nov 15 2018 12:58pm

yes I did :(

User avatar
Daxxie   10 W

10 W
Posts: 68
Joined: Feb 14 2017 9:35am

Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by Daxxie » Nov 16 2018 11:07am

jpc6000 wrote:
Nov 15 2018 12:58pm
yes I did :(
Well difficult to tell from a distance :-)

I only live an hour and a half away from you so if you really can't solve it feel free to come over and I will have a look.

User avatar
jpc6000   10 W

10 W
Posts: 80
Joined: Sep 03 2017 6:57am
Location: gent

Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Dec 03 2018 8:51am

Torque sensor still not working :mrgreen:

Pas signal ok
20181203_135635_001 (Groot).jpg
but in CA setup pas device D go up and down but P not?
20181203_144650 (Groot).jpg

User avatar
Daxxie   10 W

10 W
Posts: 68
Joined: Feb 14 2017 9:35am

Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by Daxxie » Dec 03 2018 5:28pm

jpc6000 wrote:
Dec 03 2018 8:51am
Torque sensor still not working :mrgreen:

Pas signal ok
but in CA setup pas device D go up and down but P not?
Looks like the same problem I had untill I installed the 20K resistor.
Are you sure you added a resistor?
Tell me how you connected it, or do you have a picture?

User avatar
jpc6000   10 W

10 W
Posts: 80
Joined: Sep 03 2017 6:57am
Location: gent

Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Dec 07 2018 4:02am

Hi I have made electric diagram
Bafang schema.pdf
(384.4 KiB) Downloaded 121 times
and a photo
20181207_095503 (Groot).jpg

User avatar
jpc6000   10 W

10 W
Posts: 80
Joined: Sep 03 2017 6:57am
Location: gent

Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Dec 12 2018 1:46pm

I have ask Grin about the problem, they answer:

In a pinch you can always just switch the P and D signals, since in principle only the P is needed for PAS to work.

I'm not at all familiar with the actual sensor signal levels of that product, but a volt meter will tell you what is going on. You just need to sort things out so that the CA's PAS input lines are toggled between 0V and 5V. Obviously in your current setup they aren't or you'd see the signal toggle.
:(

User avatar
jpc6000   10 W

10 W
Posts: 80
Joined: Sep 03 2017 6:57am
Location: gent

Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Dec 13 2018 9:27am

when moving cranck
pas / gnd switch between 0.782v and 2.4v
Pas shift / gnd switch between 4.29v and 1.4v
Gnd and Speed/Dir 0.7v back and forwards nothing change
Gnd and Torque 70mv back and forwards nothing change

this is not the same what Daxxie messure!
On the back of the print stays
ZL1/ZL2/5V
DS/LJ/GND

:?:

User avatar
Daxxie   10 W

10 W
Posts: 68
Joined: Feb 14 2017 9:35am

Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by Daxxie » Dec 13 2018 10:16am

jpc6000 wrote:
Dec 13 2018 9:27am
when moving cranck
pas / gnd switch between 0.782v and 2.4v
Pas shift / gnd switch between 4.29v and 1.4v
Gnd and Speed/Dir 0.7v back and forwards nothing change
Gnd and Torque 70mv back and forwards nothing change

this is not the same what Daxxie messure!
Well you have the 20K resistor installed so its normal that your PAS / gnd signal is lower then mine which was measured without a resistor.
Pas shift looks good.
Dir you do not need.
Torque you can not measure with simply rotating the crank.
You need pressure on the pedals.
You would have to install it on a bike and pedal to actualy measure it or hold the chainweel with a vice grip and apply pressure to the pedal.

So all those values look pretty good.

User avatar
jpc6000   10 W

10 W
Posts: 80
Joined: Sep 03 2017 6:57am
Location: gent

Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Dec 13 2018 11:56pm

This is what Justin from grin technologies write about the problem

when moving cranck

pas / gnd switch between 0.782v and 2.4v


That's not really enough for a reliable digital signaling. Really you want <1V and >3.5V for proper logic level signalling. :idea:

User avatar
jpc6000   10 W

10 W
Posts: 80
Joined: Sep 03 2017 6:57am
Location: gent

Re: Bafang ultra upgrade to 2500watt

Post by jpc6000 » Dec 14 2018 7:52am

I have changed the resistor
Now it change between 0.97v and 3.42v
Setup pas device is still not pick up signal pas :?: :oops:
When I change more, it's more then 1V! :?

Post Reply