GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
pascalkolkman   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 4
Joined: Oct 05 2011 4:29pm

Re: GNG X1-pro 3000w

Post by pascalkolkman » Apr 07 2020 9:39am

Shepherd wrote:
Jan 08 2019 12:17pm
If all other things are equal then the chain version will be faster.
A chain drive is about as efficient as any drive system ever invented. Gears offer considerably more friction and hence power loss.
The gear's advantage is in durability. It won't suffer chain stretch, and if robust enough and designed properly,will outlast a chain drive and require much less maintenance.
Pick your poison.
-->
Probably imo the gear version advantage is NOT durability. Because the large gear is made out of reinforced PLASTIC.
Since the h219 chain is used in gas engine motorcycles and go kart transmissions as well in much longer length it in ebike short length will probably be strong enough for ebike demands and stronger than the plastic gear.
A spare part replacement cheap plastic gear is not expensive though around € 19 . About two times as much as a h219 reinforced kmc chain .

999zip999   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 9644
Joined: Jan 10 2010 1:40pm
Location: Dana Point So. Cal

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by 999zip999 » Apr 15 2020 1:27am

Anybody have a link where to get the newest greatest complete kit. I see a lot of them but I wonder who has the newest complete kit ? 2020 gen 2. Thanks.

n2mb   100 W

100 W
Posts: 234
Joined: May 25 2018 1:37pm

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by n2mb » Apr 15 2020 9:59am


999zip999   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 9644
Joined: Jan 10 2010 1:40pm
Location: Dana Point So. Cal

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by 999zip999 » Apr 15 2020 11:09am

N2mb that is a great link as so many sites have just half info. Many questions answered. Thank you

Föppel   100 W

100 W
Posts: 137
Joined: Apr 23 2013 12:18pm
Location: cyberspace

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Föppel » Apr 20 2020 9:19am

Hey guys,
i try to get my X1 Pro (2019) running with the stock controller (52Volt)
since i buid the kit, there where many updates (Controller-Firmware updates by Progtramming cable, and "Display updates" = Smartphone app).
By now, there is a working app for android, it looks nice and bluetooth to the controller is working, but the motor doesnt turn when i hit the throttle.
I did reset all parameters to default settings (by the app), but still the motor isnt doing anything.

i wrote to Jon from CYC, he said that he will provide a new "default setting for the Gen1 2019".
im not sure if there is anything wrong with my settings, or if i destroyed the controller with some fals settings i did half a year ago.



Does anyone here run the stock 52V controller and is using the new app?



thanks, Föppel
Riding dirty since 1684
Fotos and Videos here : http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=68182
Small-block Kits on 3000W+ here : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=78861

n2mb   100 W

100 W
Posts: 234
Joined: May 25 2018 1:37pm

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by n2mb » Apr 20 2020 10:12am

Föppel wrote:
Apr 20 2020 9:19am
Hey guys,
i try to get my X1 Pro (2019) running with the stock controller (52Volt)
since i buid the kit, there where many updates (Controller-Firmware updates by Progtramming cable, and "Display updates" = Smartphone app).
By now, there is a working app for android, it looks nice and bluetooth to the controller is working, but the motor doesnt turn when i hit the throttle.
I did reset all parameters to default settings (by the app), but still the motor isnt doing anything.

i wrote to Jon from CYC, he said that he will provide a new "default setting for the Gen1 2019".
im not sure if there is anything wrong with my settings, or if i destroyed the controller with some fals settings i did half a year ago.



Does anyone here run the stock 52V controller and is using the new app?



thanks, Föppel
Don't use the throttle. It is not safe. It will eventually blow up your controller. I've destroyed two controllers using the throttle to start from a dead stop. Use PAS only with the gen 1 stock controller.

Is your PAS working?

Tommm   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1061
Joined: Apr 03 2018 2:32am

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » Apr 20 2020 5:08pm

How many amps draw do you guys get with 52 or 72v max rpm with the wheel in the air? I get 7a but I find it a bit much.

Föppel   100 W

100 W
Posts: 137
Joined: Apr 23 2013 12:18pm
Location: cyberspace

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Föppel » Apr 22 2020 3:55pm

n2mb wrote:
Apr 20 2020 10:12am


Don't use the throttle. It is not safe. It will eventually blow up your controller. I've destroyed two controllers using the throttle to start from a dead stop. Use PAS only with the gen 1 stock controller.

Is your PAS working?
Hey n2mb, i did use the throttle, and i tried to start from a dead stop several times (very poor performence). yes i think it has blown the controller by doing this.
My Display still works, also Updating the Firmware software and the display software by bluetooth worked...
On the new app, i can also see that the throttle Voltage rises when pullng the throttle, but no output to the motor.
The pas-module was pretty bad built and Pas never really worked.

did you order a 3rd stock controller and using it, or did you buy something else?

im not sure if i should go with a bac800 or a Phaserunner. I guess the Phaserunner will be a bit more plug and play? Are there any other good alternatives?
Riding dirty since 1684
Fotos and Videos here : http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=68182
Small-block Kits on 3000W+ here : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=78861

n2mb   100 W

100 W
Posts: 234
Joined: May 25 2018 1:37pm

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by n2mb » Apr 22 2020 8:04pm

Föppel wrote:
Apr 22 2020 3:55pm
n2mb wrote:
Apr 20 2020 10:12am


Don't use the throttle. It is not safe. It will eventually blow up your controller. I've destroyed two controllers using the throttle to start from a dead stop. Use PAS only with the gen 1 stock controller.

Is your PAS working?
Hey n2mb, i did use the throttle, and i tried to start from a dead stop several times (very poor performence). yes i think it has blown the controller by doing this.
My Display still works, also Updating the Firmware software and the display software by bluetooth worked...
On the new app, i can also see that the throttle Voltage rises when pullng the throttle, but no output to the motor.
The pas-module was pretty bad built and Pas never really worked.

did you order a 3rd stock controller and using it, or did you buy something else?

im not sure if i should go with a bac800 or a Phaserunner. I guess the Phaserunner will be a bit more plug and play? Are there any other good alternatives?
That sounds like a different problem. When the controller is blown, the display won't start at all and it trips the over-current limit in your BMS. It's a dead short. It's actually hard to roll the bike backwards, because the motor won't turn because of the controller short.

I think you have a different problem. You may still be able to get it to work. Check your hall sensor connections.

CYC is sending me another stock controller for the meantime. I ordered a BAC800 kit with the 750C display from them, but it will be about a month before they can ship it.

john61ct   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5958
Joined: Dec 18 2018 2:06pm

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by john61ct » Apr 24 2020 2:32pm

Aren't those controllers low-powered compared to the full motor amps capacity?

n2mb   100 W

100 W
Posts: 234
Joined: May 25 2018 1:37pm

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by n2mb » Apr 24 2020 2:35pm

john61ct wrote:
Apr 24 2020 2:32pm
Aren't those controllers low-powered compared to the full motor amps capacity?
3500 watts peak. About as much as my bike frame and powertrain can handle. I'm already getting skipping on the rear cassette.

Other people have pushed the motors to 5 kW and even 9 kW. The BAC2000 on 72V seems like a good combination. I'm getting the BAC800 72V as a replacement.

john61ct   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5958
Joined: Dec 18 2018 2:06pm

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by john61ct » Apr 24 2020 5:07pm

I hate the idea of difficult tuning / programming with ASI BAC, seems a risky investment

n2mb   100 W

100 W
Posts: 234
Joined: May 25 2018 1:37pm

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by n2mb » Apr 25 2020 8:17am

john61ct wrote:
Apr 24 2020 5:07pm
I hate the idea of difficult tuning / programming with ASI BAC, seems a risky investment
It's pre-programmed by CYC. Hopefully they have a good tune.

I would like a working throttle, so I'm going to give it a shot. The stock (gen 1) controller has terrible throttle response, and eventually self-destructs if you use the throttle to start from a dead stop.

Tommm   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1061
Joined: Apr 03 2018 2:32am

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » May 16 2020 6:21am

My cyc 72v controller won't pull more than 35-40a on flat ground, 72v battery. I have all settings on max. Does anyone else have this?

n2mb   100 W

100 W
Posts: 234
Joined: May 25 2018 1:37pm

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by n2mb » May 16 2020 7:36pm

Tommm wrote:
May 16 2020 6:21am
My cyc 72v controller won't pull more than 35-40a on flat ground, 72v battery. I have all settings on max. Does anyone else have this?
My gen 1 controller would easily pull 65A 52V when accelerating. Once you are up to speed, the amps are always going to drop off.

Tommm   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1061
Joined: Apr 03 2018 2:32am

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » May 17 2020 3:49am

n2mb wrote:
May 16 2020 7:36pm
Tommm wrote:
May 16 2020 6:21am
My cyc 72v controller won't pull more than 35-40a on flat ground, 72v battery. I have all settings on max. Does anyone else have this?
My gen 1 controller would easily pull 65A 52V when accelerating. Once you are up to speed, the amps are always going to drop off.
My gen 2 absolutely never pulls above 41-45. Even from a start on lowest gear. Maybe it's a bad controller, getting bac2000 anyway, too many issues.

john61ct   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5958
Joined: Dec 18 2018 2:06pm

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by john61ct » May 17 2020 8:48am


n2mb wrote:
john61ct wrote:
Apr 24 2020 5:07pm
I hate the idea of difficult tuning / programming with ASI BAC, seems a risky investment
It's pre-programmed by CYC. Hopefully they have a good tune
Yes that sounds great then.

I'm considering driving a Rohloff, need to keep torque under 130 N.m

Anyone familiar with tuning ASI enough to say, would tweaking that aspect require CYC to get it right, or is that something a user could figure out?

And / or would a CAv3 be a useful add-on?

not just for that one function of course. . .


n2mb   100 W

100 W
Posts: 234
Joined: May 25 2018 1:37pm

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by n2mb » May 17 2020 9:19am

john61ct wrote:
May 17 2020 8:48am
n2mb wrote:
john61ct wrote:
Apr 24 2020 5:07pm
I hate the idea of difficult tuning / programming with ASI BAC, seems a risky investment
It's pre-programmed by CYC. Hopefully they have a good tune
Yes that sounds great then.

I'm considering driving a Rohloff, need to keep torque under 130 N.m

Anyone familiar with tuning ASI enough to say, would tweaking that aspect require CYC to get it right, or is that something a user could figure out?

And / or would a CAv3 be a useful add-on?

not just for that one function of course. . .
Not sure why you'd want the CAv3 for a display vs other options.

I'm planning to run the ASI BAC 855 with the Bafang 750c display.

john61ct   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5958
Joined: Dec 18 2018 2:06pm

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by john61ct » May 17 2020 10:23am

For its "meta controller" and power logging.

Not as a display, can stow it away out of sight.

But perhaps not all that useful if the ASI controllers have most of those functions covered

e.g. de-rating current based on motor temp?

john61ct   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5958
Joined: Dec 18 2018 2:06pm

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by john61ct » May 17 2020 10:27am

john61ct wrote:I'm considering driving a Rohloff, need to keep torque under 130 N.m

Anyone familiar with tuning ASI enough to say, would tweaking that aspect require CYC to get it right, or is that something a user could figure out?
Started a new thread relevant to the above question

viewtopic.php?t=106262

.
_______
but do feel free to answer here if directly about the CYC/ASI combo, that one is more Rohloff focused


Tommm   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1061
Joined: Apr 03 2018 2:32am

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » May 17 2020 11:47am

john61ct wrote:
May 17 2020 10:27am
john61ct wrote:I'm considering driving a Rohloff, need to keep torque under 130 N.m

Anyone familiar with tuning ASI enough to say, would tweaking that aspect require CYC to get it right, or is that something a user could figure out?
Started a new thread relevant to the above question

viewtopic.php?t=106262

.
_______
but do feel free to answer here if directly about the CYC/ASI combo, that one is more Rohloff focused
Lowest reduction, 53/12t on motor, biggest chainring you can manage.
This will give you maximum chain speed and lowest torque.

john61ct   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5958
Joined: Dec 18 2018 2:06pm

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by john61ct » May 17 2020 12:54pm

Sorry I don't follow.

My plan is, since I don't care about top speed,

to set the front gearing in order to keep that top speed low, even in 14th gear,

in order to give maximum torque when needed in 1st.

I **really need** that high power at low rpm, will have an overtemp cutoff so never mind the motor for now.

It is really the **power** that breaks the pins (I think), the torque actually being **applied** too suddenly - over too short a time, too fast a ramp-up - against the inertia of the heavy rig, as with a standing start.

I do not want to reduce my torque in general, just control it, slow down that ramp-up, so that the shock is manageable.


Tommm   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1061
Joined: Apr 03 2018 2:32am

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » May 17 2020 8:23pm

john61ct wrote:
May 17 2020 12:54pm
Sorry I don't follow.

My plan is, since I don't care about top speed,

to set the front gearing in order to keep that top speed low, even in 14th gear,

in order to give maximum torque when needed in 1st.

I **really need** that high power at low rpm, will have an overtemp cutoff so never mind the motor for now.

It is really the **power** that breaks the pins (I think), the torque actually being **applied** too suddenly - over too short a time, too fast a ramp-up - against the inertia of the heavy rig, as with a standing start.

I do not want to reduce my torque in general, just control it, slow down that ramp-up, so that the shock is manageable.
It doesn't work like that.
The hub has a torque limit, not a power limit.
I wrote exactly how you should do it.
Power = torque x rpm. If you want as much power you can get, you need to keep your torque below 130nm and up your rpm, you do this by raising rpm in reduction stage and chain speed going back to hub with a bigger sprocket.

Also, I'm not sure what the shortest gear is on the rohloff, but if its 2:1 torque increase, and max input torque is 130nm. There is absolutely nothing you can do to get more than 260nm on rear wheel without going over 130nm input torque. You can sacrifice your top speed, it won't change anything.

john61ct   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5958
Joined: Dec 18 2018 2:06pm

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by john61ct » May 17 2020 9:19pm

I'll work on trying to follow all that, brain resisting.

Here's gearing info
Picture_20200517_221751099.jpg
Picture_20200517_221751099.jpg (201.51 KiB) Viewed 557 times
So, if I want to keep top speed - gear 14 - under 25mph with a 26"

+ say 3" semi-fat or even 4"

how slow road speed, also rpm going to be in first?

My goal has been for that to be as slow as possible at the wheel, but the motor rpm being nice and high.

Do the CYC have low Kv options? Will do that too?

And get pack voltage up as high as possible without reducing controller reliability.

filth   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 23
Joined: May 17 2020 11:07pm

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by filth » May 17 2020 11:12pm

Hey guys,

im currently using a bbshd on my cube stereo pro. Because of the lower frame geometry i cannot put the motor at a 90° degree and the ground clearance is really bad. Therefor im thinking about switching to the CYC X1 pro gen2.

Questions:
- My battery (14s) can deliver 60A max. So I think I should limit constant current to ~50A. Is it possible to do this via the mobile app?
- Is there a curve, what torque I would get out of the system at ~50A with 32T (11-53) setup?
- Is there a curve to compare this torque to the torque of the BBSHD?
- Is it safe to use the trottle with the GEN2 controllers (stock)?

Thanks!

Post Reply