GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
filth   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 23
Joined: May 17 2020 11:07pm

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by filth » Jun 23 2020 4:42am

Tommm wrote:
Jun 23 2020 4:33am
flat tire wrote:
Jun 22 2020 10:02pm
Go ahead and try a fast torque based throttle on ASI with the X1 lmao it will be so unreliable and shitty it's not even rideable. And CYC still has yet to put out a decent official ASI file even though they've been selling the controller.
I think the torque based throttle doesn't work that well on variable geared mid drives. In easiest gear with torque throttle your bike will run away. Speed control with torque limiting is perfect for me.
Can you post a video from a cold start?

Leanier   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 20
Joined: Jun 21 2020 10:14pm

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Leanier » Jun 23 2020 8:51am

Tommm,
Did you get your ASI controller from CYC or buy it yourself? Did they provide you with what you needed to tune the controller?

Tommm   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1275
Joined: Apr 03 2018 2:32am

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » Jun 23 2020 10:59am

Leanier wrote:
Jun 23 2020 8:51am
Tommm,
Did you get your ASI controller from CYC or buy it yourself? Did they provide you with what you needed to tune the controller?
I have 1 from cyc and 1 from other european seller. The configuration you can upload to any asi, cyc will share it if you ask, but the harness is specific to cyc display(optional) throttle/brake/hall plugs.

You don't need a cable, only bacdoor login for bluetooth phone app to upload/download/change configurations, but they are reluctant to give login info(same as other asi resellers) as it isn't meant for the end user and asi don't like too many people using one login.
filth wrote:
Jun 23 2020 4:42am
Can you post a video from a cold start?
I'll do it tomorrow as I'm sharing a battery between a cyclone and cyc bike both with asi2000.

Leanier   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 20
Joined: Jun 21 2020 10:14pm

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Leanier » Jun 23 2020 11:09am

Interesting, it's a shame ASI doesn't like to share that login.. That would be critical to me even wanting to give the ASI controller a try. I need to be able to tinker and tune or I wouldn't get the nicer controller..

VizineVizion   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 15
Joined: May 24 2020 6:56am
Location: NYC
Contact:

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by VizineVizion » Jun 23 2020 11:15am

Merlin wrote:
Jun 22 2020 6:01pm
nobody here is using ASI800 with cyc?
I have an BAC855 on the way so will update after testing.

The throttle sucks from 0 but once you're on it, its fairly responsive. Stock controller, stock settings 72v will slide out from under you mid-turn easily. No, you wont do power wheelies or any low speed kickers but its good enough for chopping up traffic around 40mph. So far the newest batch of controllers work fine throttle only even with a passenger. And I haven't had any heat issues with a city race that included a full throttle Central Park lap (6mi 400ft elevation)

But summer just started and I have a second battery on the way so we'll see

999zip999   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 10276
Joined: Jan 10 2010 1:40pm
Location: Dana Point So. Cal

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by 999zip999 » Jun 23 2020 11:44am

Yes getting the asi bac 855 with the 5,000 kit order June 16 and a 20s6p of Samsung 40t BMS 90 amp also in the mail. So would like to know more about asi 855.

Tolkano   100 W

100 W
Posts: 154
Joined: Dec 29 2017 4:28am
Location: South Australia

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tolkano » Jun 23 2020 6:41pm

Puzzling that people upgrade to ASI and yet still have throttle lag problems

Let's say you quickly rip the throttle from 0% to 50% or more, still 1 sec lag or instant?

Tommm   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1275
Joined: Apr 03 2018 2:32am

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » Jun 23 2020 7:24pm

tolkaNo wrote:
Jun 23 2020 6:41pm
Puzzling that people upgrade to ASI and yet still have throttle lag problems

Let's say you quickly rip the throttle from 0% to 50% or more, still 1 sec lag or instant?
You can set up asi torque and speed throttle response to the millisecond level.
Screenshot_20200624_022345_com.accel_droid.asi.bacdoor.jpg
Screenshot_20200624_022345_com.accel_droid.asi.bacdoor.jpg (76.42 KiB) Viewed 1376 times
It's just cyc fault they don't have a good config, mine is based on the cyc config but it was lousy out of the box.

flat tire   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1968
Joined: Feb 26 2014 12:20am

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by flat tire » Jun 23 2020 8:01pm

Hey guys...DID YOU KNOW

THERE IS A BACDOOR APP FOR PC that works offline, doesn't need a login, and is much easier to use and more full featured than the stupid app which is basically for people without working brains (or working PCs). Do you want a copy of the PC app? Please inquire via PM.

Also a 300ms ramp is frocking slow as shit I use like 1/10th of that on my ASI controllers paired with motors that are a decent match.

If anyone wants to send me a ASI / X1 file that they think has good throttle, I will try it and eat my words at once if it's good.

999zip999   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 10276
Joined: Jan 10 2010 1:40pm
Location: Dana Point So. Cal

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by 999zip999 » Jun 23 2020 8:11pm

I going to ask Jon to pre program my controller for my battery and setup. I will bribe him. Or go to the next step.

Leanier   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 20
Joined: Jun 21 2020 10:14pm

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Leanier » Jun 23 2020 9:54pm

Well after doing some more research I think I'm going to go with a cyclone 3000 kit (probably from Luna) with the stock controller initially. Once I get that working I will probably upgrade to an ASI if I can get programming software, so I can tweak and tune it.
This option is a good amount more cost effective for a first build (~$500 compared to $1000).
It should be enough for what I want, and give me a cheaper way to start up.

flat tire   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1968
Joined: Feb 26 2014 12:20am

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by flat tire » Jun 23 2020 10:16pm

Leanier wrote:
Jun 23 2020 9:54pm
cyclone 3000
Think real hard about this because the cyclone 3000 in my opinion sucks more than twice as hard as the twice as expensive X1. The X1 not only is lighter and more powerful the build quality of the entire assembly is much higher. The stock controller is also better.

Leanier   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 20
Joined: Jun 21 2020 10:14pm

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Leanier » Jun 23 2020 10:25pm

Yea, I know I won't be sticking with the stock controller on either build, so I'm not to worried about that.
The lighter and more powerful is tempting, but at this point its an experiment, so I don't think I can justify the extra $500 in something that likely won't work out. I doubt I need the power, I'll just have to gear it way down for torque (trials is slow, no need for speed). Of course likely will include converting to moto chain etc..
I have decent fab tools and skills, so not a lot of risk from that standpoint.

If it all works out, I can always sell this build or use it for more of a "normal" ebike and move to the CYC.

Tommm   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1275
Joined: Apr 03 2018 2:32am

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » Jun 24 2020 2:28am

Leanier wrote:
Jun 23 2020 9:54pm
Well after doing some more research I think I'm going to go with a cyclone 3000 kit (probably from Luna) with the stock controller initially. Once I get that working I will probably upgrade to an ASI if I can get programming software, so I can tweak and tune it.
This option is a good amount more cost effective for a first build (~$500 compared to $1000).
It should be enough for what I want, and give me a cheaper way to start up.
If you go with cyclone I think the gng one is better built than the luna one.

Leanier   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 20
Joined: Jun 21 2020 10:14pm

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Leanier » Jun 24 2020 7:42am

Thanks for the heads up, I'll take a look at the GNG one.
Is the motor and electrical actually different, or just the brackets etc?

Tommm   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1275
Joined: Apr 03 2018 2:32am

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » Jun 24 2020 8:48am

Leanier wrote:
Jun 24 2020 7:42am
Thanks for the heads up, I'll take a look at the GNG one.
Is the motor and electrical actually different, or just the brackets etc?
Motor is the same.

forcefed   10 W

10 W
Posts: 85
Joined: Oct 27 2017 9:39pm

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by forcefed » Jun 25 2020 9:21am

Leanier wrote:
Jun 23 2020 9:54pm
Well after doing some more research I think I'm going to go with a cyclone 3000 kit (probably from Luna) with the stock controller initially. Once I get that working I will probably upgrade to an ASI if I can get programming software, so I can tweak and tune it.
This option is a good amount more cost effective for a first build (~$500 compared to $1000).
It should be enough for what I want, and give me a cheaper way to start up.
The throttle on the cyclone controller takes some getting used to, if you're not careful you'll be doing a wheelie very quickly, it's very sensitive. After a week I'm already looking at other controller options, the pas is useless too.
Friction drive ebike viewtopic.php?f=6&t=235&start=1875#p1546191
Northrock XC00 fabike + cyclone 3000 viewtopic.php?f=6&t=235&p=1565563#p1565563

Tommm   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1275
Joined: Apr 03 2018 2:32am

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » Jun 25 2020 3:09pm

forcefed wrote:
Jun 25 2020 9:21am
Leanier wrote:
Jun 23 2020 9:54pm
Well after doing some more research I think I'm going to go with a cyclone 3000 kit (probably from Luna) with the stock controller initially. Once I get that working I will probably upgrade to an ASI if I can get programming software, so I can tweak and tune it.
This option is a good amount more cost effective for a first build (~$500 compared to $1000).
It should be enough for what I want, and give me a cheaper way to start up.
The throttle on the cyclone controller takes some getting used to, if you're not careful you'll be doing a wheelie very quickly, it's very sensitive. After a week I'm already looking at other controller options, the pas is useless too.
Which cyclone controller? Gng pair it with a different one. The luna cyclone controller (non mini) is a 40a yuyangking without Bluetooth, the 60a yuyangking has Bluetooth with tunable throttle.

In the end, if you want great throttle control, you aren't going to get it with the $3 thumb kits.

forcefed   10 W

10 W
Posts: 85
Joined: Oct 27 2017 9:39pm

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by forcefed » Jun 25 2020 3:41pm

Tommm wrote:
Jun 25 2020 3:09pm
forcefed wrote:
Jun 25 2020 9:21am
Leanier wrote:
Jun 23 2020 9:54pm
Well after doing some more research I think I'm going to go with a cyclone 3000 kit (probably from Luna) with the stock controller initially. Once I get that working I will probably upgrade to an ASI if I can get programming software, so I can tweak and tune it.
This option is a good amount more cost effective for a first build (~$500 compared to $1000).
It should be enough for what I want, and give me a cheaper way to start up.
The throttle on the cyclone controller takes some getting used to, if you're not careful you'll be doing a wheelie very quickly, it's very sensitive. After a week I'm already looking at other controller options, the pas is useless too.
Which cyclone controller? Gng pair it with a different one. The luna cyclone controller (non mini) is a 40a yuyangking without Bluetooth, the 60a yuyangking has Bluetooth with tunable throttle.

In the end, if you want great throttle control, you aren't going to get it with the $3 thumb kits.
The 40a bluetooth waterproof one from sickbikeparts, an app allows you to make some throttle adjustments but they're pretty useless. The worst part is during cruising, if you let go of the throttle and get on it again you have to rev match the motor to your speed and then add more throttle or its going to jerk you back.
Friction drive ebike viewtopic.php?f=6&t=235&start=1875#p1546191
Northrock XC00 fabike + cyclone 3000 viewtopic.php?f=6&t=235&p=1565563#p1565563

HrKlev   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 320
Joined: Dec 06 2019 10:24am

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by HrKlev » Jun 26 2020 2:02am

Does anyone know which torque sensor comes with this kit? Is it one of the known sensor that is stamped with cyc, or have cyc specced their own?

The torque sensor + freewheel looks like something that can be used to build torque sensing into other mid drive kits with a CA, so Im quite interested in it. How many poles for the cadence sensor, does it measure torque from both cranks, etc. ?

Thanks
Hubdrive as middrive, with torque sensing EMTB build: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=107622

6x6 conversion: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=109567

Tommm   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1275
Joined: Apr 03 2018 2:32am

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » Jun 26 2020 4:52am

forcefed wrote:
Jun 25 2020 3:41pm
The 40a bluetooth waterproof one from sickbikeparts, an app allows you to make some throttle adjustments but they're pretty useless. The worst part is during cruising, if you let go of the throttle and get on it again you have to rev match the motor to your speed and then add more throttle or its going to jerk you back.
Try fast start 8, slow start off, adjust accelerator curve on

Unfortunately that is the nature of a freewheeling motor. I have the same "issue" with bac2000 and domino throttle. The only difference is I have more precise control over the same interaction.

Torque mode throttles also work differently on a motor with multiple gears, on an easy gear 20% throttle will launch you at max speed for that gear, on a difficult gear 20% willjust slowly starting moving you.

SL33   100 µW

100 µW
Posts: 8
Joined: Mar 18 2020 10:30am

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by SL33 » Jun 26 2020 9:35am

I have my BT 40a controller set to "adjust accelerator curve" = OFF
i find this eliminates delay on throttle and strange throttle on while cruising.

Tommm   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1275
Joined: Apr 03 2018 2:32am

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » Jun 26 2020 10:16am

SL33 wrote:
Jun 26 2020 9:35am
I have my BT 40a controller set to "adjust accelerator curve" = OFF
i find this eliminates delay on throttle and strange throttle on while cruising.
Throttle delay is only linked to "fast start".
Boost mode is just fast start 11, useless, as 8 is high enough. So keep it off.
Adjust curve setting gives you finer control on the low rpm range but takes away a bit of control higher up:

Image
Where vertical line is target rpm in % of max rpm, and horizontal line is throttle position.

forcefed   10 W

10 W
Posts: 85
Joined: Oct 27 2017 9:39pm

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by forcefed » Jun 26 2020 2:21pm

Tommm wrote:
Jun 26 2020 4:52am
forcefed wrote:
Jun 25 2020 3:41pm
The 40a bluetooth waterproof one from sickbikeparts, an app allows you to make some throttle adjustments but they're pretty useless. The worst part is during cruising, if you let go of the throttle and get on it again you have to rev match the motor to your speed and then add more throttle or its going to jerk you back.
Try fast start 8, slow start off, adjust accelerator curve on
That definitely helped a bit, time to get a better throttle :thumb:
Friction drive ebike viewtopic.php?f=6&t=235&start=1875#p1546191
Northrock XC00 fabike + cyclone 3000 viewtopic.php?f=6&t=235&p=1565563#p1565563

boytitan   100 W

100 W
Posts: 222
Joined: Jan 07 2017 5:10pm
Location: Buffalo Newyork

Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by boytitan » Jun 27 2020 1:24am

Tommm wrote:
Jun 24 2020 2:28am
Leanier wrote:
Jun 23 2020 9:54pm
Well after doing some more research I think I'm going to go with a cyclone 3000 kit (probably from Luna) with the stock controller initially. Once I get that working I will probably upgrade to an ASI if I can get programming software, so I can tweak and tune it.
This option is a good amount more cost effective for a first build (~$500 compared to $1000).
It should be enough for what I want, and give me a cheaper way to start up.
If you go with cyclone I think the gng one is better built than the luna one.
GNG has the updated cyclone lunas cyclone is over half a decade old and hasn't been updated since they were heavily pushing the inferior bbshd till they got the sur-ron partnership.

Post Reply