GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

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Tommm   100 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » Jun 28 2020 8:19am

flat tire wrote:
Jun 18 2020 10:45pm
jjstripes wrote:
Jun 18 2020 9:13pm
I'm not sure what all the complaints are about.
Stock controller doesn't respond fast enough for racing where you are constantly on / off throttle and need instant response.
Do you have pictures of the destructed magnets? I managed to blow mine just now, motor was still touchable hot by hand. Stator in good shape. The motor couldn't startup properly even with stock controller so I don't know if it's a factory defect crack that got worse. I still don't quite understand how the middle of the magnet gave way with both sides clamped by the metal cap...
Image

With the bac2000 it pulled and revved like a motherf*ker though :lol:


I wish cyc did a 25% wider rotor version to handle more power, same way we have cyclone 3kw and 4kw. Since the cyc can fit 68mm frame, pf92 frames and above could fit a wider motor easily.

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Ecyclist   1 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Ecyclist » Jun 28 2020 2:06pm

I would assume that this magnet was cracked during assembly.
It would be enough to have a small grain of metal or the magnet being not perfectly matched with diameter of the rotor. The crack can be almost not visible at first.
This is a wrong way to put it all together, but it is fast. You don't need a fixture and you don't have to wait for an adhesive to cure.
Machining undercut under magnets would help, but still crimping magnets with a sheet-metal cage is not the way to go.
I'm surprised this is not happening more often. Maybe once they see a crack they start over and only small group of invisible cracks goes out to the world.
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
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999zip999   100 GW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by 999zip999 » Jun 28 2020 2:46pm

That looks a little funky. Had magnets come loose on two 1,500 edge d.d. glue them back as needed two to make one as the magnets would jump and break magnets brake ez. Oh used jb weld high temp.
Still waiting on 5,000 Watt order June 6 with bac 855.

Tommm   100 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » Jun 28 2020 3:05pm

Ecyclist wrote:
Jun 28 2020 2:06pm
I would assume that this magnet was cracked during assembly.
It would be enough to have a small grain of metal or the magnet being not perfectly matched with diameter of the rotor. The crack can be almost not visible at first.
This is a wrong way to put it all together, but it is fast. You don't need a fixture and you don't have to wait for an adhesive to cure.
Machining undercut under magnets would help, but still crimping magnets with a sheet-metal cage is not the way to go.
I'm surprised this is not happening more often. Maybe once they see a crack they start over and only small group of invisible cracks goes out to the world.
The metal cap was a stop gap solution between gen 1 (glue) and gen 2 (glue again), it is referred to as gen 1.5.

Interesting it looks like it came out of the plain on one side.
Image

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by 999zip999 » Jun 28 2020 6:28pm

Because the magnets are so brittle by their nature that looks like a bad way to go maybe they put some glue and that banding ? Angle pressure of the nailer how it's held in place how clean is the room you know . Why does it take 4 weeks to ship ? Are those punch marks holding the band together with the magnets done by hand or does he have a real machine ? Haha. Probably source from India as laborers cheaper than China nowadays

Tommm   100 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » Jun 29 2020 3:15am

999zip999 wrote:
Jun 28 2020 6:28pm
Because the magnets are so brittle by their nature that looks like a bad way to go maybe they put some glue and that banding ? Angle pressure of the nailer how it's held in place how clean is the room you know . Why does it take 4 weeks to ship ? Are those punch marks holding the band together with the magnets done by hand or does he have a real machine ? Haha. Probably source from India as laborers cheaper than China nowadays
They usually avoid snail mail, it takes 2 weeks to arrive after it is set up.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by 999zip999 » Jun 29 2020 12:10pm

I mean wide don't they have any in stock why does it take 4 weeks for them to put a kit together. Then after 4 weeks two more weeks of shipping or more. Why don't they have any in stock on the shelf in hand ready to ship ?

999zip999   100 GW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by 999zip999 » Jun 29 2020 12:10pm

I mean wide don't they have any in stock why does it take 4 weeks for them to put a kit together. Then after 4 weeks two more weeks of shipping or more. Why don't they have any in stock on the shelf in hand ready to ship ?

flat tire   1 MW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by flat tire » Jun 29 2020 7:20pm

When the magnets explode they totally came off in my case. Also if you get it hot enough to remove magnets they should be at least partially demagnetized. That could be a defect.

The case was also extremely hot every time I blew magnets. You can't keep your hand there.

Ham   1 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Ham » Jul 02 2020 11:27am

Hi All,

Finally got my battery built and hooked up and wondering if anyone can help me understand the settings in the app a little more.

I have managed to get the PAS set up to some degree, however, it seems to cut out very quickly (brake cut out makes no difference).

Do we have a set of standard values and what each of the settings actually mean? The user manual seems wanting.

For example: PAS pole count for torque sensor version, says standard is 18...are there other options and what do adjustments either way do?

Cadence limit seems weird and to do little (is the limit for when it starts or cuts out??, starting torque limit for PAS seems to do little etc. Many of the settings seem this way.

I have no clue what the gear settings are all about either?!?! I get the mode 1, 2 and 3 etc as coming from a cycle analyst this is intuitive but having PAS gears and throttle gears...help?

So far, I am impressed with how smooth and quiet the set up is (coming from Tangent which is a beast). Torque sensing is my main desire for this build fwiw.
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jjstripes   1 mW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by jjstripes » Jul 02 2020 9:26pm

The gears within each mode are very important because it enables you to more gradually increase the power. I always start in 1 or 2 otherwise the chain skips. It's too much power too quick. Once I get going a little I press the button to go to 2nd and then 3rd, etc. There an instruction video on YouTube for how to customize it.

Ham   1 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Ham » Jul 03 2020 12:48am

Thank you. I'll have a look see. Not sure why my mind didn't go to youtube already
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Ham   1 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Ham » Jul 03 2020 1:46am

Found this, pretty useful for sure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7Nl77NC7jE

For anyone else wanting a little more guidance than the user guide.

A few things missing like:

Battery set up low voltage cut off...is it low voltage for the whole pack or per cell for example?

Motor RPM /cadence setting could do with a little more help like examples...
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Tommm   100 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » Jul 03 2020 2:22am

jjstripes wrote:
Jul 02 2020 9:26pm
The gears within each mode are very important because it enables you to more gradually increase the power. I always start in 1 or 2 otherwise the chain skips. It's too much power too quick. Once I get going a little I press the button to go to 2nd and then 3rd, etc. There an instruction video on YouTube for how to customize it.
Are you 100% sure it is the chain skipping? It might be something else, you can record your drive train in slow mo video to find out.

jjstripes   1 mW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by jjstripes » Jul 03 2020 9:44am

Tommm wrote:
Jul 03 2020 2:22am
jjstripes wrote:
Jul 02 2020 9:26pm
The gears within each mode are very important because it enables you to more gradually increase the power. I always start in 1 or 2 otherwise the chain skips. It's too much power too quick. Once I get going a little I press the button to go to 2nd and then 3rd, etc. There an instruction video on YouTube for how to customize it.
Are you 100% sure it is the chain skipping? It might be something else, you can record your drive train in slow mo video to find out.
Not positive, but it feels and sounds like that's what is happening. I'll try your idea of videoing it. What else could it be?

Ham   1 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Ham » Jul 03 2020 10:22am

I'd love some guidance on the PAS set up:

What exactly does the "assist start current TD (0.01a) (0-3000) do and what do adjustments in either direction to this do?

What does the "assist power factor TS (0.1/nm) (15-30) mean in real terms?

Power limit seems intuitive.

Sensitivity also.

Cadence threshold too appears obvious but I do wonder why if it is torque sensing it needs a setting for cadence thresholds?

The small round display shows my battery voltage in numerical but has yet to show the red line circle around the perimeter of the display for some reason?

And finally my speedo will not work, it occasionally spits out a number but mostly nothing. The reader on the rear wheel shows a red light when the magnet is right in front of it. Pole count is 1 as per the app and diameter is 660mm ish. Open to ideas on this one.

If anyone can help with the above then thank you!
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Tommm   100 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » Jul 03 2020 11:26am

jjstripes wrote:
Jul 03 2020 9:44am
Tommm wrote:
Jul 03 2020 2:22am
jjstripes wrote:
Jul 02 2020 9:26pm
The gears within each mode are very important because it enables you to more gradually increase the power. I always start in 1 or 2 otherwise the chain skips. It's too much power too quick. Once I get going a little I press the button to go to 2nd and then 3rd, etc. There an instruction video on YouTube for how to customize it.
Are you 100% sure it is the chain skipping? It might be something else, you can record your drive train in slow mo video to find out.
Not positive, but it feels and sounds like that's what is happening. I'll try your idea of videoing it. What else could it be?
Hub freewheel skipping or motor being damaged and unable to start with a load from 0rpm (happened to me).

filth   10 mW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by filth » Jul 05 2020 10:56pm

My speedo was behaving the same. It's broken. Ended using my old one from the bafang.

Ham   1 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Ham » Jul 06 2020 12:13am

Yes i spoke with CYC not long ago and they advised a faulty batch went out. New ones are available so I'm just waiting on my supplier now.

Thanks
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Ham   1 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Ham » Jul 10 2020 11:08am

Ok so I have had my first proper 17 mile test run of this set up...very impressed so far. Some throttle but mostly PAS as I wanted it for.

I have asked the following question over on the FB group but figured I'd share them and the response I may get here (feel free to answer any you know the answer too!):

1) PAS settings in Modes menu: Assist Start Current TS (0.01A) (0-3000) sounds simple but makes little discernable difference when altered.....0-3000 what exactly? What does setting 0 do vs setting 3000? Thank you

2) PAS settings in Modes menu: Assist Power Factor TS (0.1A/nm) (15-30) I assume a higher setting such as 30 offers more assistance per NM of effort I apply to the pedals? Is 15-30 the acceptable range allowed or can I set it to more? 15-30 what exactly...15 x 0.1a per NM of effort I apply? Thank you

3)PAS settings in Modes menu: Assist Sensitivity, Assist Start Torque. This seems simple enough in that the PAS will wait for me to apply a set amount of torque to the pedals before initiating help...however...1 or 5 makes little difference...

4)PAS settings in Modes menu: Cadence Threshold the app says this is either when it starts or cuts off...could you explain which of the two it is? Or can it be left at zero if I am relying solely on torque sensing? Thank you

5) Throttle settings in Modes menu. Throttle RPM limit (rpm) (0-1500): if the motors revs to around 9000 (at 60v) why would 1500 be an upper limit or perhaps I am misunderstanding this setting? Perhaps the (0-1500) in brackets are not the parameter limits?

6) Dashboard: this shows my throttle as showing an input current of 0.8v even when the throttle is not in use, I am used to the Cycle Analyst which shows 0v when the throttle is closed and not in use.

7) Dashboard: this shows the motor as drawing 5w when stationary?

8) The battery display shows my battery down to 39% when it is only at 70% discharge as per voltage and the BMS? I have it set as LiIon and 14s in the settings. Thank you

9) Sensors menu: PAS Motor Start RPM (rpm) 100-2560 I am very confused as to what this actually does as its sound simple but there is no difference in the PAS if I set it to 100 or 2560 as the parameters suggest are options?

an answer at last...."pas motor start rpm = The motor rpm that the motor will be running when you initiate the pedal assist. If it is higher, the response is quicker".

10) Sensors menu: Motor RPM/Cadence RPM (rpm) 0-255 same as above...I am not really clear on what this does and what the differences I should notice are between 0 or 255?

"motor rpm/cadence rpm:
This ensures the motor rpm is increased according to the gear ratio as you pedal faster, usually set it at 36 will be good. The default value. If you increase the value, you will need less power to pedal as you pedal faster"



9 and 10 perplex me the most!

I'll post any replies I get here.
Last edited by Ham on Aug 21 2020 6:20am, edited 1 time in total.
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jjstripes   1 mW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by jjstripes » Jul 21 2020 2:30pm

Anyone have any thoughts on the various battery cell options and how they work with this motor with the stock controller?

I'm running 52v 8ah Samsung 40T right now, and considering Samsung 30Q and LG MJ1 for my next battery. All 52v, but 60v and 72v are options as well.

My application is commuting on a Trek Marlin. My present setup enables me to get up to about 37 MPH. I wouldn't mind going a few MPH faster. The 8ah battery I have now is enough to easily get to work and charge while I am there so that I can make it home, although I would like more range to help keep the battery from going down below 20%, and that's why I am looking at bigger batteries.

Thanks.

Ham   1 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Ham » Jul 21 2020 2:51pm

Using vtc6 cells 14s6p. Previously had vtc5a. Impressed with them.
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Deephaven   1 mW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Deephaven » Jul 22 2020 8:58am

flat tire wrote:
Jun 23 2020 10:16pm
Leanier wrote:
Jun 23 2020 9:54pm
cyclone 3000
Think real hard about this because the cyclone 3000 in my opinion sucks more than twice as hard as the twice as expensive X1. The X1 not only is lighter and more powerful the build quality of the entire assembly is much higher. The stock controller is also better.
If you were recommending a setup then what would it be? X1 Pro G2 with the ASI? I am getting closer to having a bike to put one on and would like to pull the trigger on a purchase.

jjstripes   1 mW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by jjstripes » Jul 22 2020 8:28pm

[/quote]
If you were recommending a setup then what would it be? X1 Pro G2 with the ASI? I am getting closer to having a bike to put one on and would like to pull the trigger on a purchase.
[/quote]

I am pleased with the x1 pro gen 2 with the stock controller. The whole system works well along with the smartphone app. Lots of people on here are pretty negative on the stock controller, but I have no issues with it.

Ham   1 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Ham » Jul 23 2020 2:03am

Gen 2 here too and very happy with it. Pas mode is sublime. Throttle is a little like an on/ off switch but i rarely use it so far.

App is good apart from the lack of full details on what the settings all do in detail.

Having electronic "gears" within each of the three modes is damn good too...nice to be able to have a quick way to switch the motor into a zero output mode and back again.
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