TSDZ2 vs Bafang BBSO2

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
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bowzette   10 µW

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TSDZ2 vs Bafang BBSO2

Post by bowzette » Aug 12 2018 9:58am

I've been looking at DD real wheel systems for a Catrike recumbent trike. I have no experience with e-assist motors but thirty years of riding road bikes. I think I want the responsive connectiveness of a torque sensor system. This got me looking at the TSDZ2. But I know the Bafang is well thought of and very popular. I was interested in the pros and cons of these two systems. I only need a 350 or 500 watt motor. I don't want to damage the trikes drive train. Is a gear senor necessary or at least wise and I assume available to connect with these systems? If the TSDZ2 has TS is a gear sensor even appropriate? I am use to shifting gears on my bikes am I likely to quickly get use to the Bafang system and not need a gear sensor? If the Bafang doesn't have a TS I assume it motors along at assist setting selected with motor watts remaining constant and increase in speed is from riders additional watts without the motor reacting to increase or decrease wattage. Is this correct? The TSDZ2 with TS at a specific assist setting will increase or decrease wattage responding to riders wattage. Is this correct? It seems to me-with no knowledge or experience-that a TS is needed to retain the feeling of riding a bike or trike versus riding a moped, scooter or motorcycle. Any input is useful. My assumptions may be off base.

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Marin   1 kW

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Re: TSDZ2 vs Bafang BBSO2

Post by Marin » Aug 12 2018 8:23pm

You got it pretty right, bafang is a scooter, tsdz2 is still a bike with help.

I have both, now I prefer tsdz2 cause I need to pedal for exercise but lots of hills locally for old legs.
Marin ex-rental hybrid with 48v bionx...sold
Specialized hardrock with magic pie 4-5
Lunacycle with l/r mid drive coming soon
Kona Caldera with QS 30H (maybe), and phase runner
Giant Yukon bbs02
Kona Abra Cadabra bbshd
Wildfire fat bike bbshd

bowzette   10 µW

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Re: TSDZ2 vs Bafang BBSO2

Post by bowzette » Aug 12 2018 10:08pm

Marlin I see you also have a Magic Pie. I have been looking at these but it is my understanding with the Thun bb torque sensor no longer available the other bb TS don't work well on recumbents due to the difference in how torque is applied on a DF bike vs recumbent. If you have any knowledge to the contrary please let me know.

filtvet   1 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 vs Bafang BBSO2

Post by filtvet » Aug 13 2018 3:43am

I have had both. 2 tsdz2 have failed, so I sold them. Happy with my bafang. Cannot say I feel a big difference in handling. I almost never use the throttle, its only reserved for steep hills.

playvltk03   10 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 vs Bafang BBSO2

Post by playvltk03 » Aug 24 2018 12:30pm

buy a bafang, if you want to pedal, turn off the motor.

With tsdz2, you don't need to turn off the motor, yes, that motor is weak compare to bafang, even at same w level.

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John and Cecil   1 kW

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Re: TSDZ2 vs Bafang BBSO2

Post by John and Cecil » Aug 24 2018 2:09pm

Tsdz2 is somewhat defective, the gears do not mesh properly and the nylon drive gear often gives out prematurely. The tsdz2 is somewhat powerful if you get the 52v 750w version. The bbs02 will have more power tha the tsdz2 and can handle higher amps and it appears much more reliable but it does not have a torque sensor. There is also another motor being manufactured by ex bafang engineers with a torque sensor. It is lighter than the other 2 motors mentioned and preliminary reviews of the unfinished product estimate it should be able to handle 1000+w. It is still being revised and a finished and revised product is not on the market yet, but it is something to watch for in the near future.

If you do not need a torque sensor then I would go with the bafang, if you want the torque sensor then you can take a chance on the tsdz2 which works but has known issues or you can wait a bit and take a chance on the lingbei motor.

As for shifting gears, I use my throttle to shift when pedaling on assist mode with the tsdz2. What happens is when you push the throttle it kills the motor power for about a second and the kicks back in. If you squeeze the throttle right before you switch gears you can shift smoothly and only lose power for a fraction of a second. The tsdz2 as far as I know does not have a gear sensor that is plug and play but the bafang does. I do not know about the lingbei.

Waynemarlow   1 kW

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Re: TSDZ2 vs Bafang BBSO2

Post by Waynemarlow » Aug 26 2018 2:18pm

John, where can you confirm to 100% accuracy that what you are saying about the gear mesh is indeed incorrect. The only place I have seen it mentioned is on a web forum from an un-known writer whose skill on these matters has never been tested by their peer group.

Be careful, you are coming across as a disgruntled owner and all because you can't be arsed to take advice nor research properly a lot of what you presenting on the TDSZ2 thread. You seem to have a real reticence to reprogram the TDSZ2 but I have to remind you that in its standard form my BBS02 was terrible from the factory and on single track was positively dangerous in the way it presented its power and in the delay it continued to power on once you stopped pedaling. Once I had reprogrammed it and spent some time finessing those settings, it was good but not in the same ball park as a good torque based motor.

playvltk03   10 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 vs Bafang BBSO2

Post by playvltk03 » Aug 29 2018 3:49pm

Bottom line,

TSDZ2 + open source firmware > BBS02

Otherwise, the safe bet would be BBS02 if you want power. TSDZ2 is for like natural flows (you will still sweat like hell sometime).

Your choice,

cafu02   10 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 vs Bafang BBSO2

Post by cafu02 » Nov 24 2018 11:20pm

playvltk03 wrote:
Aug 29 2018 3:49pm
Bottom line,

TSDZ2 + open source firmware > BBS02

Otherwise, the safe bet would be BBS02 if you want power. TSDZ2 is for like natural flows (you will still sweat like hell sometime).

Your choice,
What do you mean by this "TSDZ2 + open source firmware > BBS02"'
I'm also looking to do my first Ebike with very little experience , and trying to do some research on both bafang and the TSDZ2.

mctubster   100 W

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Re: TSDZ2 vs Bafang BBSO2

Post by mctubster » Nov 27 2018 8:14pm

cafu02 wrote:
Nov 24 2018 11:20pm

What do you mean by this "TSDZ2 + open source firmware > BBS02"'
I'm also looking to do my first Ebike with very little experience , and trying to do some research on both bafang and the TSDZ2.
There is a project where you flash the TDSZ2 with open source software. You also need to purchase another display and flash that also plus some soldering to customise the cable to connect.. The advantage is that the control, power output, max RPMs is far superior to the original firmware

mossboss   10 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 vs Bafang BBSO2

Post by mossboss » Nov 28 2018 3:26pm

Could you elaborate by what "control" improvements we might observe by flashing with the open source firmware? Is there a risk of bricking the motor?

csbike   100 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 vs Bafang BBSO2

Post by csbike » Apr 14 2019 3:23am

Hi all,
I am relatively new to this forum and I have been reading around stuff, but I am searching for more information. Please bear with me if my questions have answers in other threads. I will appreciate pointers.

This thread is pretty old, and I have seen there have been quite a few developments on the opensource firmware for the TSDZ2.
I am currently shopping for a motor, and I am hesitating between three options
- Bafang BBS01
- TSDZ2
- LingBei MM28.250

I started off with the Bafang, then I discovered the LingBei, but it seems to have issues, and then I discovered the TSDZ2. A reseller told me the TSDZ2 has a lot of reliability issues. But there seems to be a great community around it.
I wonder if you guys could give me some recommendations. I definitely want pedal assist rather than a motorbike. This is mainly going to be for commuting but also for some on and off-road excursions in hilly terrain. I do not mind sweating during the excursion, but my main requirement is to do the slightly hilly 12km between home and work without significant sweating, knowing that I am currently quite out of shape.

If I understood correctly, the Bafang feels like having someone push you, less than with a hub motor but still to some extent. But it appears to require very little maintenance.

The TSDZ2 should be better in this respect, but I have read somewhere that you will still sweat as a result.... is this the case?
It also seems to require quite some hardware maintenance. Is this still the case with the latest versions? How often do you need to replace things, and how much of a cost does it represent?


And the LingBei, after going through the threads and asking questions I haven't understood how stable and reliable it is, but here I want to focus on the TSDZ2 vs Bafang.

Thanks



If

casainho   10 GW

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Re: TSDZ2 vs Bafang BBSO2

Post by casainho » Apr 21 2019 5:10am

About TSDZ2, please read the wiki that includes resume information. See the FAQ, etc:

https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... _wiki/wiki

If you prefer to not install by yourself our Flexible OpenSource firmware, you can buy a TSDZ2 motor and LCD already flashed, on www.electrifybike.com. This store is friendly to the development of our firmware and is donating 10% of the sales.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

qwerkus   10 kW

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Re: TSDZ2 vs Bafang BBSO2

Post by qwerkus » Apr 22 2019 6:50am

I can confirm the low finish quality of the tsdz2 - seems to be very random. On my unit, high tolerances and defective bearing cause really annoying noises. With casainho's open source software, the ride is quite enjoyable though (very reactive), and I can understand all those writing about the more bicycle-like feeling it gives. It's reactivity means you don't need ebrakes, as the controller cuts power instantly when you stop pressing the pedals. Still, I own both, and the bafang can take a lot more abuse from my experience. The tsdz2 is really 1000w max for a short time, and 600W max continuous - at least my model - while my bbs02 can put out 900W for half an hour without overheating, and 1500W during short accelerations. Never had to change a gear on the bafang till now, while the blue gear of the tsdz2 died twice already. Finish is also better on the bafang, virtually 0 noise and very low vibrations. Only thing I really miss is an open source software for it, but you can do it by using a custom controller. One thing that most forget though is that the tsdz2 is around 900g lighter than the bbs02, which can make a big difference on a very light commuter. I'd say overall the tsdz2 has more potential if you are fine with its limited power, but if you get one, make sure it's from a local dealer, where you can return it if it turns out to be one of the flawed models.

nomidis   10 W

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Re: TSDZ2 vs Bafang BBSO2

Post by nomidis » Apr 22 2019 2:49pm

Although I do not own both, just the tsdz2 750w, I must say that this kit is just perfect!
I cannot imagine anything better and at this price.

I bought it so I can commute to work and put it on a good quality 700c trekking bike, no custom firmware, just the stock one.
I am thrilled with it!

It provides assistance so fluently.. that it will make you love pedaling!! :P

Before buying it, I was more like getting a "scooter-like" ebike kit, so I can go on thumb-throttle for most of my commute.
Now, I barely use the thumb-throttle. I love the way it provides me the ability to do mild-to-medium exercise while commuting to work.
Nevertheless it also has the ability to go on throttle. Only thing needed is to remove the speed limit (of 25km/h) and to raise the max Amperes a bit.
I set it to max 18A, it was max 15A I think.

Now, about built quality, I don't have something to compare to. To me its just perfect.
Only minor thing is a slight wobbling of the axis, but no big-deal, it is like a fraction of 1 millimeter.
PSW says it is normal and will not get worse, so I am ok with it, I already got used to it.

Regarding noise.. OK, what can I say, I read various things in here and I was prepared to be able to ...easily listen at the motor working... :mrgreen:
Instead, I cannot even tell from the sound of it whether the motor is actually providing assistance or not.
Pedestrians certainly cannot listen to it AT ALL.

Go for it mate, you will not regret it!

cliftonarms   100 µW

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Re: TSDZ2 vs Bafang BBSO2

Post by cliftonarms » May 20 2019 3:56pm

nomidis - who did you get your tsdz2 750w from ? was it direct from china or local?

bjorsa   10 mW

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Re: TSDZ2 vs Bafang BBSO2

Post by bjorsa » May 20 2019 7:04pm


nomidis   10 W

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Re: TSDZ2 vs Bafang BBSO2

Post by nomidis » May 20 2019 7:15pm

cliftonarms wrote:
May 20 2019 3:56pm
nomidis - who did you get your tsdz2 750w from ? was it direct from china or local?
hi, i got it from a shop in Germany. For EU buyers offers no post fee, no import fee.
it is PSWPOWER.COM

yogajitsu   1 µW

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Re: TSDZ2 vs Bafang BBSO2

Post by yogajitsu » Aug 30 2019 3:54pm

It sounds like if the bafang has a torque sensor then it would be better. That said i have two bbs02 and thinking of a third and it might be bbs02 again. Both of mine have over 1000 miles and theyre running like brand new except one of thumb throttle sticks. For torque sensing, i do it myself.. if I need the motor to help more I turn up the pas, if I need less motor assist I turn down the pas and pedal harder.

Aquakitty   100 W

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Re: TSDZ2 vs Bafang BBSO2

Post by Aquakitty » Aug 30 2019 9:44pm

nomidis wrote:
Apr 22 2019 2:49pm
Although I do not own both, just the tsdz2 750w, I must say that this kit is just perfect!
I cannot imagine anything better and at this price.

I bought it so I can commute to work and put it on a good quality 700c trekking bike, no custom firmware, just the stock one.
I am thrilled with it!

It provides assistance so fluently.. that it will make you love pedaling!! :P

Before buying it, I was more like getting a "scooter-like" ebike kit, so I can go on thumb-throttle for most of my commute.
Now, I barely use the thumb-throttle. I love the way it provides me the ability to do mild-to-medium exercise while commuting to work.
Nevertheless it also has the ability to go on throttle. Only thing needed is to remove the speed limit (of 25km/h) and to raise the max Amperes a bit.
I set it to max 18A, it was max 15A I think.

Now, about built quality, I don't have something to compare to. To me its just perfect.
Only minor thing is a slight wobbling of the axis, but no big-deal, it is like a fraction of 1 millimeter.
PSW says it is normal and will not get worse, so I am ok with it, I already got used to it.

Regarding noise.. OK, what can I say, I read various things in here and I was prepared to be able to ...easily listen at the motor working... :mrgreen:
Instead, I cannot even tell from the sound of it whether the motor is actually providing assistance or not.
Pedestrians certainly cannot listen to it AT ALL.

Go for it mate, you will not regret it!
How are you managing to commute without it overheating (at stock)? Mine was a firecracker going fast commute.

You can set the TSDZ2 to 36, 48 or 52 volt without needing the opensource firmware, so which model you buy isn't that relevant.
Rans Enduro Sport w/Sturmey-Archer XFRD8, TSDZ2 open source mod 48v
GT Verb Comp f/s TSDZ2 open source 48v
Diadora Ampio bargain f/s TSDZ2 48v
2020 Diamant 247 belt drive 1000w 9C 48v
Hardtail made from random bits I had laying around, ginormous old Marzocchi fork, BBS02

wpenner   100 W

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Re: TSDZ2 vs Bafang BBSO2

Post by wpenner » Aug 31 2019 11:09am

John and Cecil wrote:
Aug 24 2018 2:09pm
Tsdz2 is somewhat defective, the gears do not mesh properly and the nylon drive gear often gives out prematurely. The tsdz2 is somewhat powerful if you get the 52v 750w version. The bbs02 will have more power tha the tsdz2 and can handle higher amps and it appears much more reliable but it does not have a torque sensor. There is also another motor being manufactured by ex bafang engineers with a torque sensor. It is lighter than the other 2 motors mentioned and preliminary reviews of the unfinished product estimate it should be able to handle 1000+w. It is still being revised and a finished and revised product is not on the market yet, but it is something to watch for in the near future.

If you do not need a torque sensor then I would go with the bafang, if you want the torque sensor then you can take a chance on the tsdz2 which works but has known issues or you can wait a bit and take a chance on the lingbei motor.

As for shifting gears, I use my throttle to shift when pedaling on assist mode with the tsdz2. What happens is when you push the throttle it kills the motor power for about a second and the kicks back in. If you squeeze the throttle right before you switch gears you can shift smoothly and only lose power for a fraction of a second. The tsdz2 as far as I know does not have a gear sensor that is plug and play but the bafang does. I do not know about the lingbei.
I think a couple people busted blue gears early on, but they are really strong to me. I even burned my motor up after 2500km at 750watts but blue gear was still good. I think they are really hard to destroy unless you use the throttle with the brakes on.

raylo32   100 W

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Re: TSDZ2 vs Bafang BBSO2

Post by raylo32 » Aug 31 2019 6:06pm

I have been waiting for Bafang to offer a torque sensor on the BBS series motors so this is a welcome development. Do you know what brand name they will be sold under? Or is not so far along that they have decided on that?
John and Cecil wrote:
Aug 24 2018 2:09pm
There is also another motor being manufactured by ex bafang engineers with a torque sensor. It is lighter than the other 2 motors mentioned and preliminary reviews of the unfinished product estimate it should be able to handle 1000+w. It is still being revised and a finished and revised product is not on the market yet, but it is something to watch for in the near future.

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