SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
User avatar
fechter   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12775
Joined: Dec 31 2006 3:23pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by fechter » Sep 27 2018 2:55pm

A solid state relay like that would work but it's huge (and kind of expensive). They do make smaller ones. Here is an example:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Pa ... D0zlcsg%3d
$2.45 ea. Handles 1A load. DIP4 size (very small).

The easiest thing would be to use a NPN transistor as a voltage follower. Pretty much any NPN transistor with enough current rating will work. It will have about a 0.7v drop, but that should not be a problem. A TIP41 is an example. These are dirt cheap and can handle 6A.
Brake Switch Booster 1.jpg
My brake light draws about 80mA and hasn't had any issues with contact sticking (yet) but I was concerned about it.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

n2mb   100 W

100 W
Posts: 116
Joined: May 25 2018 1:37pm

Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by n2mb » Sep 27 2018 3:27pm

fechter wrote:
Sep 27 2018 2:55pm
A solid state relay like that would work but it's huge (and kind of expensive). They do make smaller ones. Here is an example:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Pa ... D0zlcsg%3d
$2.45 ea. Handles 1A load. DIP4 size (very small).

The easiest thing would be to use a NPN transistor as a voltage follower. Pretty much any NPN transistor with enough current rating will work. It will have about a 0.7v drop, but that should not be a problem. A TIP41 is an example. These are dirt cheap and can handle 6A.
Brake Switch Booster 1.jpg

My brake light draws about 80mA and hasn't had any issues with contact sticking (yet) but I was concerned about it.
that would work, except you need to add a base resistor on that transistor. otherwise it will draw too much current and the controller will never enable the motor since it won't go to 0V with the switches open.

are the switches normally open or normally closed?

And is the non-controller side of the switch connected to +12V or to ground? Just wondering if it is a pull up or pull down resistor in the controller.

User avatar
fechter   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12775
Joined: Dec 31 2006 3:23pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by fechter » Sep 27 2018 11:20pm

The switches are normally open. The brake signal for the controller is normally low and gets pulled up to 12v when you hit the brakes.
The transistor doesn't need a resistor since it's working as a voltage follower.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

n2mb   100 W

100 W
Posts: 116
Joined: May 25 2018 1:37pm

Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by n2mb » Sep 28 2018 7:15am

fechter wrote:
Sep 27 2018 11:20pm
The switches are normally open. The brake signal for the controller is normally low and gets pulled up to 12v when you hit the brakes.
The transistor doesn't need a resistor since it's working as a voltage follower.
Oh, good call. I've never built a voltage follower using a BJT. Always built those with mosfets. That should work.

User avatar
fechter   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12775
Joined: Dec 31 2006 3:23pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by fechter » Sep 28 2018 8:24am

My brake light is just LEDs in series with a resistor and draws under 100mA, so the tiny switch seems fine. If your brake light uses any kind of switching mode LED driver circuit, there will be a capacitor across the input that would definitely cause problems for the switches. The transistor or relay will prevent that.

On another topic;

One issue I have is my legs are extra long and the distance from the foot pegs to the top of the seat is a little short for my knees to be comfortable. One solution would be to lower the foot pegs a little. An extender bracket would be easy enough to make and try. Since I am primarily riding on the street, the reduced ground clearance wouldn't be a problem.

Another approach would be to raise the seat a little. Even better if there was a way to make a little storage compartment under the seat that was accessible without tools. The seat is held on with 4 bolts, so it wouldn't be too hard to make some extenders. Since we don't want an open gap between the seat and frame, maybe make a "filler" piece with an access door on the side (3D printed?). Even a 1" extension would give enough room for the tool kit to fit in there somewhere.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

User avatar
skyungjae   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 784
Joined: Nov 30 2012 12:57pm
Location: Southern California
Contact:

Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by skyungjae » Sep 28 2018 11:31am

fechter wrote:
Sep 28 2018 8:24am
My brake light is just LEDs in series with a resistor and draws under 100mA, so the tiny switch seems fine. If your brake light uses any kind of switching mode LED driver circuit, there will be a capacitor across the input that would definitely cause problems for the switches. The transistor or relay will prevent that.

On another topic;

One issue I have is my legs are extra long and the distance from the foot pegs to the top of the seat is a little short for my knees to be comfortable. One solution would be to lower the foot pegs a little. An extender bracket would be easy enough to make and try. Since I am primarily riding on the street, the reduced ground clearance wouldn't be a problem.

Another approach would be to raise the seat a little. Even better if there was a way to make a little storage compartment under the seat that was accessible without tools. The seat is held on with 4 bolts, so it wouldn't be too hard to make some extenders. Since we don't want an open gap between the seat and frame, maybe make a "filler" piece with an access door on the side (3D printed?). Even a 1" extension would give enough room for the tool kit to fit in there somewhere.
Are you part of the owner's group on Facebook? One of the taller members had a similar issue and fabbed this up not too long ago:
Seat compartment.JPG
Seat compartment.JPG (56.57 KiB) Viewed 973 times
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

2005 Jamis Dakar build thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p972546
2005 Kona Stink-E build thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 64#p690597

User avatar
fechter   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12775
Joined: Dec 31 2006 3:23pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by fechter » Sep 28 2018 11:50am

skyungjae wrote:
Sep 28 2018 11:31am
Are you part of the owner's group on Facebook? One of the taller members had a similar issue and fabbed this up not too long ago:
No, I haven't seen that. Pretty much what I was thinking of. Nice.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

Jonathan1981   10 W

10 W
Posts: 95
Joined: Mar 29 2011 7:48pm

Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Jonathan1981 » Oct 02 2018 2:05pm

Jonathan1981 wrote:
Sep 19 2018 2:41pm
Testing out the 3D prints....everything looks pretty good... seems feasible. #1. The parts fit great
#2. They fold back very nicely, the pedal would tend to deflect and rotate upwards also which is good.

Just wish I could hop on and give them a test...

I think the only downside is that they sit out about .75" further than a standard peg... not sure how that will feel in terms of stance or if it will effect performance. Again, sort of thing that needs to be tested first...
Hi guys, just gonna thread bump this project and do a little update...

So I ordered these pegs from ebay:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/CNC-Pit-Bike-Fo ... 2749.l2649

I installed them and they're pretty cool. They're super fat so they feel almost like a pedal (2.25" front to back, 3.27" wide, right to left). The install was a bit of a PIA as the spring is pretty stiff and the pin is difficult to push through. I recommend grinding or sanding a bit of a chamfer on the tip of the pin to help guide it through the spring windings so it doesn't get hung up when pushing it through....

Also, the pins in the left peg were ALL loose and almost falling out, so not sure what happened there but I put some lock tight and all was good.

The angle is ok but not perfect, without modification, they don't quite sit right, but I found if I slipped a 3/8" washer in where the mount is, it puts them just about right, although the foot plane is still angled backwards by a few degrees but not really that noticeable...

I think for now, given the cost and convenience, this will work for me in terms of "aftermarket" foot peg solution so I'm personally going to put this project (pedal adapters) on the back bench for now.
Attachments
DSC_2702.JPG
DSC_2706.JPG

User avatar
skyungjae   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 784
Joined: Nov 30 2012 12:57pm
Location: Southern California
Contact:

Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by skyungjae » Oct 10 2018 10:57am

cloudwalker wrote:
Sep 10 2018 1:56am

Image
Pedal -> motorcycle size
I ended up getting the same pegs in red.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BF7S7QK/re ... B07BF7S7QK

I left a short review and posted photos on Amazon. :wink:
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

2005 Jamis Dakar build thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p972546
2005 Kona Stink-E build thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 64#p690597

Jonathan1981   10 W

10 W
Posts: 95
Joined: Mar 29 2011 7:48pm

Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Jonathan1981 » Oct 12 2018 5:47pm

skyungjae wrote:
Oct 10 2018 10:57am
cloudwalker wrote:
Sep 10 2018 1:56am

Image
Pedal -> motorcycle size
I ended up getting the same pegs in red.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BF7S7QK/re ... B07BF7S7QK

I left a short review and posted photos on Amazon. :wink:
Those are not the same as the one's I got....
Curious, how is the angle? do they sit angled back a bit? or are they just bolt on and go..

User avatar
skyungjae   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 784
Joined: Nov 30 2012 12:57pm
Location: Southern California
Contact:

Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by skyungjae » Oct 17 2018 5:25pm

Jonathan1981 wrote:
Oct 12 2018 5:47pm
skyungjae wrote:
Oct 10 2018 10:57am
cloudwalker wrote:
Sep 10 2018 1:56am

Image
Pedal -> motorcycle size
I ended up getting the same pegs in red.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BF7S7QK/re ... B07BF7S7QK

I left a short review and posted photos on Amazon. :wink:
Those are not the same as the one's I got....
Curious, how is the angle? do they sit angled back a bit? or are they just bolt on and go..
They feel fine for me. The one on the left side has a little more play, but I think that's due to the design of the spring.

A few people on the FB owners page also purchased them. They may be able to provide additional feedback.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

2005 Jamis Dakar build thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p972546
2005 Kona Stink-E build thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 64#p690597

pipeking   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 21
Joined: May 02 2018 3:27pm

Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by pipeking » Oct 19 2018 5:50am

Hi sorry not sure if this is the right place but I need to replace the front wheel bearings on my light bee. Has anyone else done this yet? They look like they use the same axle as mountain bike hubs so I'm wondering if they are just mountain bike wheel bearings? Probably plastic if the headsets anything to go by... :lol:

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6418
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Rix » Oct 19 2018 9:45am

pipeking wrote:
Oct 19 2018 5:50am
Hi sorry not sure if this is the right place but I need to replace the front wheel bearings on my light bee. Has anyone else done this yet? They look like they use the same axle as mountain bike hubs so I'm wondering if they are just mountain bike wheel bearings? Probably plastic if the headsets anything to go by... :lol:
Yep, same 20mm axles that DH bikes use. Shouldn't be any problems getting bearings for the hub.

Jonathan1981   10 W

10 W
Posts: 95
Joined: Mar 29 2011 7:48pm

Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Jonathan1981 » Oct 21 2018 3:12pm

Rix wrote:
Oct 19 2018 9:45am
pipeking wrote:
Oct 19 2018 5:50am
Hi sorry not sure if this is the right place but I need to replace the front wheel bearings on my light bee. Has anyone else done this yet? They look like they use the same axle as mountain bike hubs so I'm wondering if they are just mountain bike wheel bearings? Probably plastic if the headsets anything to go by... :lol:
Yep, same 20mm axles that DH bikes use. Shouldn't be any problems getting bearings for the hub.
Yep. Just go to your local bearing shop or look on-line for 20IDx32ODx6mm wide. bearings :) easy cheasy

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6418
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Rix » Oct 21 2018 8:08pm

Jonathan1981 wrote:
Oct 21 2018 3:12pm
Rix wrote:
Oct 19 2018 9:45am
pipeking wrote:
Oct 19 2018 5:50am
Hi sorry not sure if this is the right place but I need to replace the front wheel bearings on my light bee. Has anyone else done this yet? They look like they use the same axle as mountain bike hubs so I'm wondering if they are just mountain bike wheel bearings? Probably plastic if the headsets anything to go by... :lol:
Yep, same 20mm axles that DH bikes use. Shouldn't be any problems getting bearings for the hub.
Yep. Just go to your local bearing shop or look on-line for 20IDx32ODx6mm wide. bearings :) easy cheasy
Woops, I guess I left the bearing dimensions out, thanks for catching that.

pipeking   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 21
Joined: May 02 2018 3:27pm

Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by pipeking » Oct 22 2018 5:25am

Rix wrote:
Oct 21 2018 8:08pm
Jonathan1981 wrote:
Oct 21 2018 3:12pm
Rix wrote:
Oct 19 2018 9:45am
pipeking wrote:
Oct 19 2018 5:50am
Hi sorry not sure if this is the right place but I need to replace the front wheel bearings on my light bee. Has anyone else done this yet? They look like they use the same axle as mountain bike hubs so I'm wondering if they are just mountain bike wheel bearings? Probably plastic if the headsets anything to go by... :lol:
Yep, same 20mm axles that DH bikes use. Shouldn't be any problems getting bearings for the hub.
Yep. Just go to your local bearing shop or look on-line for 20IDx32ODx6mm wide. bearings :) easy cheasy
Woops, I guess I left the bearing dimensions out, thanks for catching that.
I know right, so I start searching for DH wheel bearings... no joy? I can only find hubs?

I then search for that specific size bearing and all I can find is this:

https://www.bearingandengineering.co.nz ... 8+NIS.html

I know my options are somewhat limited considering I live in a third world country, but $35 a piece sounds a little bit steep to me...

This bikes only done 550Km in fcuking total :evil:

starting to wonder about these things, the range is suspect as hell too

pipeking   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 21
Joined: May 02 2018 3:27pm

Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by pipeking » Oct 22 2018 5:26am

The 'dealer' doesn't even reply...

User avatar
fechter   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12775
Joined: Dec 31 2006 3:23pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by fechter » Oct 22 2018 8:03am

Are you sure the bearings aren't 7mm wide? 20mm x 32mm x 7mm seems to be a very common size you can find tons of on eBay for cheap.
This size is labeled 6804.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6418
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Rix » Oct 22 2018 9:33am

fechter wrote:
Oct 22 2018 8:03am
Are you sure the bearings aren't 7mm wide? 20mm x 32mm x 7mm seems to be a very common size you can find tons of on eBay for cheap.
This size is labeled 6804.
It may be 7mm instead of 6mm. I will need to check mine later this week.

Jonathan1981   10 W

10 W
Posts: 95
Joined: Mar 29 2011 7:48pm

Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Jonathan1981 » Oct 23 2018 9:02pm

Rix wrote:
Oct 22 2018 9:33am
fechter wrote:
Oct 22 2018 8:03am
Are you sure the bearings aren't 7mm wide? 20mm x 32mm x 7mm seems to be a very common size you can find tons of on eBay for cheap.
This size is labeled 6804.
It may be 7mm instead of 6mm. I will need to check mine later this week.
Yep. If all you can find is 7mm, which looks like the case, then they're 7mm. I measured quickly so :)

pipeking   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 21
Joined: May 02 2018 3:27pm

Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by pipeking » Oct 24 2018 3:34am

thanks guys that number looks better, easy to find, and cheap too

chur! :mrgreen:

pipeking   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 21
Joined: May 02 2018 3:27pm

Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by pipeking » Oct 27 2018 7:10pm

Right, so new bearings arrived this week, today I attempted replacement. They were rusty in behind the spacer seals and noisy too, so definitely toast. I have ridden this thing through around knee deep water a couple of times, so I'm guessing that would have done it. Not usually an issue on motor cross bikes, but they have a much better seal system in their hubs.

So anyway, the inner spacer won't shift enough to the side to get a grip on the inner race with the puller I had. Off to the shop... he had a go, and had the same issues I did, the spacer just won't move much more than half a mil to either side making it difficult to grab hold of the inner race. He has another puller at home that may work so I left the wheel with him.

Will keep you posted on how I get on, I assume I am one of the first people to need replacement wheel bearings? :o

Jonathan1981   10 W

10 W
Posts: 95
Joined: Mar 29 2011 7:48pm

Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Jonathan1981 » Oct 28 2018 9:22pm

10-4. Hope it works, keep us posted...

pipeking   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 21
Joined: May 02 2018 3:27pm

Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by pipeking » Oct 31 2018 1:59am

Got the wheel back yesterday, the guy said he needed to use a puller that tightened up and clamped onto the inner race. Only cost me $20 so that was sweet anyway, bit of a hassle having to drive out of town, it sucks here no good shops.

I just got some Fox 40s :twisted: picking them up next week...

User avatar
E-geezer   100 W

100 W
Posts: 148
Joined: Apr 25 2016 10:35pm
Location: Utah

Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by E-geezer » Oct 31 2018 10:52am

If you guys are having rusting problems, get some fully stainless bearings, they aren't that expensive and it beats replacing them all the time.
The older I get, the faster I was

Post Reply