SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
Jonathan1981   10 W

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Jonathan1981 » Nov 01 2018 8:54pm

Great advice....

*ack, bugging me how slow this thread is going.....I personally havn't had much time to dive into any design work but it's coming....

I'm going to blow this thread up over the winter, :lol: so everyone just sit tight...

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pipeking   10 mW

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by pipeking » Nov 02 2018 6:52pm

E-geezer wrote:
Oct 31 2018 10:52am
If you guys are having rusting problems, get some fully stainless bearings, they aren't that expensive and it beats replacing them all the time.
yea in hindsite I got the new bearings before pulling it apart, and probably would have gone ceramic or something a little fancier knowing now how much of a pain in the ass it was to swap em out :lol:

So this thread is for mods and stuff right? I will post some pics of my guards etc when I can

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by fechter » Nov 05 2018 4:41pm

I was looking at ways to improve the cooling on the motor (though it seems to do quite well stock). It seemed to me the skid plate was blocking most of the air flow that could go to the motor. It also serves to keep mud and rain spray off the motor, so maybe not a good idea to put more holes in it.

I thought about making scoops that go on one or both sides, but scoops tend to work only when there is nearly zero back pressure or else the air just goes around the inlet.

So I decided to try more of a wing or deflector instead of a scoop. The test prototype was made from a piece of polystyrene taken from a large 3-ring loose leaf binder. Those things that keep the pages from getting jammed on the rings. Any thin, stiff plastic stuff would work.
Img_0932.jpg
Img_0932.jpg (85.14 KiB) Viewed 975 times
Img_0934.jpg
Img_0934.jpg (73.34 KiB) Viewed 975 times
The plastic is very thin, about 0.7mm so it can slide in between the skid plate and the frame. I just loosened the two bolts holding the skid plate and slid the plastic into the gap, then re-tightened the bolts.

The plastic was bent slightly by heating with a heat gun.

The area exposed to the oncoming wind is now much greater but the wings don't stick out enough to interfere with my feet.

After running it hard for about 20 minutes, I stopped and felt the motor with my hand. It was barely above ambient air temp, but started getting warmer as it sat there. I think it works but needs a bit more testing. For sure it could stick out a little more without getting in the way of anything.

Mud will hit it, but it should be easy enough to wash off.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Rix » Nov 05 2018 9:48pm

Nice Fetcher, did you have overheating issues before?

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by fechter » Nov 06 2018 12:12am

Rix wrote:
Nov 05 2018 9:48pm
Nice Fetcher, did you have overheating issues before?
No, not really. But a cooler motor is more efficient.

Before adding the fins, the motor would get pretty hot after a long run but not so hot you couldn't hold your hand on it. At lower speeds climbing hills, heating will be more of an issue. The weather has been pretty cool lately, so not really needed but I'm sure it will help during the summer.
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pipeking   10 mW

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by pipeking » Nov 08 2018 4:04am

I pulled of my bash plate the other day to give it a straighten up, and I noticed the boot around the controller wires was rubbing on the throttle plate under the controller.Imagesorry I can't get the photo to upload some reason, but if you look up the gat in the baseplate you can see it without taking the guard off. The result was a mushy feel I was blaming on a shitty cable... a cable tie later and it was sorted, I bet this is the same on other peoples bikes probably just not as fussy as me I like a nice snap back on the throttle.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Rix » Nov 08 2018 12:55pm

fechter wrote:
Nov 06 2018 12:12am
Rix wrote:
Nov 05 2018 9:48pm
Nice Fetcher, did you have overheating issues before?
No, not really. But a cooler motor is more efficient.

Before adding the fins, the motor would get pretty hot after a long run but not so hot you couldn't hold your hand on it. At lower speeds climbing hills, heating will be more of an issue. The weather has been pretty cool lately, so not really needed but I'm sure it will help during the summer.
Indeed it is.

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pipeking   10 mW

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by pipeking » Nov 09 2018 6:13am

another thing I find interesting nobody has mentioned is the tilt sensor, and the issues you have with this if you ride the bike hard. I first noticed it landing from about 1m to flat the bike would cut out. You have to turn key off and on again before it will go, so bloody annoying. It will do it even when the bike gets a sudden jolt like bouncing over big roots or rocks.

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by fechter » Nov 09 2018 9:08am

pipeking wrote:
Nov 09 2018 6:13am
another thing I find interesting nobody has mentioned is the tilt sensor, and the issues you have with this if you ride the bike hard. I first noticed it landing from about 1m to flat the bike would cut out. You have to turn key off and on again before it will go, so bloody annoying. It will do it even when the bike gets a sudden jolt like bouncing over big roots or rocks.
I don't ride hard enough to have issues with that. I remember seeing a picture of the sensor in one of the teardowns by Luna. I think its near the throttle sensor. It should be pretty easy to disable it if desired. It ties into the same line with the kick stand switch. Ideally it would have some kind of timer so it has to be triggered for a full second or more before it cuts off.
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pipeking   10 mW

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by pipeking » Nov 10 2018 9:56pm

The sensor is square and has the word 'up' with an arrow in big letters on the front, I think its in above the controller, I will go in search of it when I do my controller swap in a few weeks time.

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Jonathan1981 » Nov 11 2018 5:31pm

pipeking wrote:
Nov 10 2018 9:56pm
The sensor is square and has the word 'up' with an arrow in big letters on the front, I think its in above the controller, I will go in search of it when I do my controller swap in a few weeks time.
Yep, sits in the bracket above the controller in a rubber vibration mount...

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Jonathan1981 » Nov 11 2018 5:31pm

fechter wrote:
Nov 05 2018 4:41pm
I was looking at ways to improve the cooling on the motor (though it seems to do quite well stock). It seemed to me the skid plate was blocking most of the air flow that could go to the motor. It also serves to keep mud and rain spray off the motor, so maybe not a good idea to put more holes in it.

I thought about making scoops that go on one or both sides, but scoops tend to work only when there is nearly zero back pressure or else the air just goes around the inlet.

So I decided to try more of a wing or deflector instead of a scoop. The test prototype was made from a piece of polystyrene taken from a large 3-ring loose leaf binder. Those things that keep the pages from getting jammed on the rings. Any thin, stiff plastic stuff would work.

Img_0932.jpg

Img_0934.jpg

The plastic is very thin, about 0.7mm so it can slide in between the skid plate and the frame. I just loosened the two bolts holding the skid plate and slid the plastic into the gap, then re-tightened the bolts.

The plastic was bent slightly by heating with a heat gun.

The area exposed to the oncoming wind is now much greater but the wings don't stick out enough to interfere with my feet.

After running it hard for about 20 minutes, I stopped and felt the motor with my hand. It was barely above ambient air temp, but started getting warmer as it sat there. I think it works but needs a bit more testing. For sure it could stick out a little more without getting in the way of anything.

Mud will hit it, but it should be easy enough to wash off.
:thumb: thanks for the share..

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Jonathan1981 » Nov 11 2018 5:34pm

Does anyone know the technical name or part # for the two usable controller connectors. I'm modeling the whole bike and would like to have accurate part names for the files. Here are some CAD images of the thinner one...

thanks.
Attachments
2018-11-11 (1).png
2018-11-11 (2).png
2018-11-11.png

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by fechter » Nov 13 2018 9:21am

pipeking wrote:
Nov 09 2018 6:13am
another thing I find interesting nobody has mentioned is the tilt sensor, and the issues you have with this if you ride the bike hard. I first noticed it landing from about 1m to flat the bike would cut out. You have to turn key off and on again before it will go, so bloody annoying. It will do it even when the bike gets a sudden jolt like bouncing over big roots or rocks.
Edited to correct instructions.. Sorry my pictures aren't better.

OK, I found the sensor and it looks pretty straightforward to unplug it. It is located just below the main circuit breaker. The sensor and main breaker are mounted to an aluminum panel that makes the front of the battery compartment. By unplugging the sensor, the feature will be disabled and could be re-enabled if desired by plugging it back in.

To disable:
-Turn off the main breaker and remove the battery.
-Remove the two screws holding the plastic splash shield at the top of the controller (near the horn).
-Remove the shield and remove the two bolts behind it that hold the top of the controller.
-Remove the two bolts that secure the top of the breaker mounting panel.
-Pull the top of the panel back to gain access to the connectors. The bolts at the bottom are hard to access, but I was able to pull it back without loosening them.
-Unplug the "dump switch" connector and reassemble.


Screws that hold the top of the breaker mounting plate:
Upper breaker panel screws.jpg
Upper breaker panel screws.jpg (61.88 KiB) Viewed 726 times

Panel pulled back:
Img_0940A.jpg
Img_0940A.jpg (81.71 KiB) Viewed 726 times

Dump Switch connector:
Dump Switch Location.jpg
Dump Switch Location.jpg (68.85 KiB) Viewed 726 times
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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pipeking   10 mW

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by pipeking » Nov 29 2018 3:18pm

I took the whole sensor out, a few grams lighter is always good! :mrgreen:

nice pictures and run down, I wanted to put up a few but can't seem to find an image host that works with this site?

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by fechter » Nov 29 2018 3:32pm

pipeking wrote:
Nov 29 2018 3:18pm

nice pictures and run down, I wanted to put up a few but can't seem to find an image host that works with this site?
Just host them here by using the Attachments tab below the Submit button. Then you can "place inline" with the text.
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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by pipeking » Dec 03 2018 4:57pm

oh right, max file size is like 5ookb I think my files are like 4mb haha and my phones a few years old...

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by pipeking » Dec 03 2018 5:01pm

ok I think I have worked out how to shrink my pics :lol: sorry I am computer vege

Heres my bike:
bike.jpg
my bike
Mods so far....
Fox 40, Front Guard + Pirelli Scorpian.jpg
2017 Fox 40, Pirelli Scorpian and Front guard
Scorpian is a taller tyre than the geomax and has better knob pattern for front too, its perfect in the 27.5 fork :P the front guard brand is Planet Bike, Big Buck. I like it but honestly a preference thing here so many different front guards about haha
Dunlop Geomax.jpg
Dunlop Geomax on rear
I like Geomax on rear, it has wider footprint than scorpion.
KORE stem and Risse Racing billet top crown.jpg
KORE direct mount stem and Risse Racing billet top crown
ODI grips.jpg
ODI lock-on grips...
No grip, no glory!!
Icetech pads.jpg
Shimano Icetech pads
mudflaps.jpg
mudflap and rear guard
The mudflap I made, and the guard is the rear piece from the front guard
X controller.jpg
X - controller
So yea I also have Hope integrated headset (not fitted yet) and a 52T sprocket which I will use for big climbs...and new footpegs coming..

Future mods:

New rear shock, most likely Fox DHX2
O-ring chain
Bark buster bar guards
new bars prob PRO 9.8s 30mm rise

:mrgreen:

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pipeking   10 mW

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by pipeking » Dec 03 2018 5:40pm

check out this beast I found for a possible bad ass rear tyre... on the left:
Tyre comparison.jpg
From Left: Artrax 90/90-19, Stock Sur-Ron CST tyre, Geo-max Dunlop, Scorpian Pirelli (all the others are 70/100-19)

The Artrax weighs in a bit heavier and is 52T so quite a hard rubber, I got it 2/3s of the way on and gave up because the bead is so firm without rubber grease and good tyre levers I didn't want to risk damage or worse... I think a good tyre shop could fit it, I don't know if the knobs will clear the chain, it looks super close but I would love to give it a crack. This would make this thing just like a dirt bike haha

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by liveforphysics » Dec 03 2018 6:07pm

I'm excited to see if you can get it to fit, that's a lot of tire!
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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by macribs » Dec 04 2018 7:49am

Will there be enough swing arm clearance for the widest tire?

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by pipeking » Dec 04 2018 5:34pm

macribs wrote:
Dec 04 2018 7:49am
Will there be enough swing arm clearance for the widest tire?
you mean side to side? The chains gonna be the rubbing point before the swing arm that way, but positive it will fit depth ways into the arm its 90% of 90mm which is about 82mm the 70/100 should be 70mm theres easy more than 30mm clearance there.. dunno though its a massive tire it will prob be a bit much

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by macribs » Dec 05 2018 1:28am

Hey if you can shoe horn that wheel and tire in place great. Should you see any rubbing you could "shave" part of the most sideways knobs, just slightly so you got clearance. Will look bad ass with such a wide tire. And the sidewall height was nice too, should make for smooth ride.

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by Jonathan1981 » Dec 05 2018 4:08pm

pipeking wrote:
Dec 03 2018 5:01pm
ok I think I have worked out how to shrink my pics :lol: sorry I am computer vege

Heres my bike: bike.jpg

Mods so far....

Fox 40, Front Guard + Pirelli Scorpian.jpg Scorpian is a taller tyre than the geomax and has better knob pattern for front too, its perfect in the 27.5 fork :P the front guard brand is Planet Bike, Big Buck. I like it but honestly a preference thing here so many different front guards about haha
Dunlop Geomax.jpg I like Geomax on rear, it has wider footprint than scorpion.
KORE stem and Risse Racing billet top crown.jpg
ODI grips.jpg No grip, no glory!!
Icetech pads.jpg
mudflaps.jpgThe mudflap I made, and the guard is the rear piece from the front guard
X controller.jpg

So yea I also have Hope integrated headset (not fitted yet) and a 52T sprocket which I will use for big climbs...and new footpegs coming..

Future mods:

New rear shock, most likely Fox DHX2
O-ring chain
Bark buster bar guards
new bars prob PRO 9.8s 30mm rise

:mrgreen:
For the front wheel, is that a 26" (19") moto rim tire setup? you mentioned the fork is 27.5"...

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pipeking   10 mW

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Re: SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Post by pipeking » Dec 05 2018 9:57pm

Jonathan1981 wrote:
Dec 05 2018 4:08pm
pipeking wrote:
Dec 03 2018 5:01pm
ok I think I have worked out how to shrink my pics :lol: sorry I am computer vege

Heres my bike: bike.jpg

Mods so far....

Fox 40, Front Guard + Pirelli Scorpian.jpg Scorpian is a taller tyre than the geomax and has better knob pattern for front too, its perfect in the 27.5 fork :P the front guard brand is Planet Bike, Big Buck. I like it but honestly a preference thing here so many different front guards about haha
Dunlop Geomax.jpg I like Geomax on rear, it has wider footprint than scorpion.
KORE stem and Risse Racing billet top crown.jpg
ODI grips.jpg No grip, no glory!!
Icetech pads.jpg
mudflaps.jpgThe mudflap I made, and the guard is the rear piece from the front guard
X controller.jpg

So yea I also have Hope integrated headset (not fitted yet) and a 52T sprocket which I will use for big climbs...and new footpegs coming..

Future mods:

New rear shock, most likely Fox DHX2
O-ring chain
Bark buster bar guards
new bars prob PRO 9.8s 30mm rise

:mrgreen:
For the front wheel, is that a 26" (19") moto rim tire setup? you mentioned the fork is 27.5"...
Not sure what you mean sorry, I am just running the stock Sur-Ron 19" wheels and changed the tire to a pirelli scorpion. The wheel itself is a bit bigger diameter than a 26" mtn bike wheel and tire. well it was compared to the wheel set I have. Yea the fork is 27.5" I know Adam from AE bikes in aussie has same fork but I think he is running a 26" mtn bike wheel he has made up special.

I think a mtn bike front wheel would make the front end a few kg lighter, more wheel stands for sure, I am happy with the stock wheels for now

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