Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

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Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Sep 20 2018 8:35pm

This bike has been bought direct from Dengfu who manufactures the carbon frames. The frame is made for either the Shimano Step motor or the Bafang M600. The frame also has a space built into the frame for a 48 volt battery pack that Bafang themselves are manufacturing. I have spec’d the bike with the Bafang M600 because it has the option of using a throttle.

The reasons I choose this bike is the combination of the following features listed in order of importance to me.......

1.Throttle
2. Good ground clearance.
3.Torque sensing BB drive with option on the throttle overdrive.
4. 120 NM of torque. This is enough for me I think.
5.Programable ? - I guess still to be determined if this Bafang M600 will be something we can program. For me all would want to do is smooth out throttle response anyways so if it runs good out of the box I will be happy. The motor is supposed to come from Dengfu programmed to run at the higher speed limits as well. Bafang claims 500 watts for the USA version but I am hoping with the 120NM rating will actually mean closer to 1000 watts but we will see.
5. Value.......for $5,000.00 US dollars I have a decent CF full suspension bike with decent components (Shimano M8000 Group and Rock Shock Yari decent 27.5” by 2.8” tubeless tires, CF wheel set also.) Delivered to the door. I most likely will still have to pay GST and PST tax but no traiffs here in Canada. Pretty sure the full bike with motor and battery will weigh in under 50 lbs but we will see.

The purchase at this point is a bit of a gamble as try as I may I have yet to hear any kind of review on this motor from other users. Just Bafang themselves so can not really go by this as they are very short on the details. Also a gamble,its difficult getting good info with the language barrier buying direct from China but a chance I have decided to take. The 48 volt battery pack has still not be supplied to Dengfu as Banfang are still tinkering with the platform so Dengfu says. Because of this I have asked Dengfu to just ship it as is so I can assemble and ride it and wait for the battery to follow. I don't want any hold ups on getting it shipped here so I will just ride it as a non electric to start. The photos attached show the workers at Dengfu building the bike up today, I hope for shipment today or tomorrow. Also shown are my Handle Bars and Stem for the bike bought from Jensons USA. Dengfu does not have much to choose from regarding stem lengths and bar styles. Also shown is the seat tube spacer so I can use my dropper post from my fat tire bike on the new bike.
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For inquiries on the this bike for pricing etc the link here is where I bought it from https://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/. Kelsey at Dengfu is the sales person that helped me make the purchase. I would recommend using the google translate from english to chinese for the correspondence. It may help smooth out the language barriers. .........wayne
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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Richard N » Sep 21 2018 8:49am

Hello Wayne, The bike looks great, congratulations! I look forward to reading your ride report and seeing some more pictures.

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Sep 25 2018 6:05pm

Good news the bike has arrived in Canada and cleared customs. I have been told in the Province of BC where I live I will be subject to GST and PST tax totalling 12% of declared value which I kind of expected, the good news is no tariffs here in BC. It was boxed in China on the 21st from Dengfu and arrived in Vancouver today on the 25th so that's not bad. Package went through a stop over in Memphis TN USA then to Richmond BC then to its final destination in Vancouver Canada. Fedex was reluctant to ship it to my house as I am a ferry ride from the City and too rural for them, so had it shipped to Vancouver. No big deal, I should have it in my possession on Thursday so I will take some photos of the unboxing etc. Slight hole in the box from Fedex shown in photo but looks minor I am sure everything is fine inside the box.
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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Bigwheel » Sep 26 2018 8:38am

Holes in the bottom of a box are like escape hatches for any small parts that might want to escape, hope that's not the case. Why the shipping company would send the thing to Tennessee is beyond me and lucky you didn't get a tariff slapped on it there. Did they ever send you a drawing of the frame? It would be interesting to see how it stands geo wise.

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Richard N » Sep 26 2018 8:53am

Bigwheel wrote:
Sep 26 2018 8:38am
Holes in the bottom of a box are like escape hatches for any small parts that might want to escape, hope that's not the case. Why the shipping company would send the thing to Tennessee is beyond me and lucky you didn't get a tariff slapped on it there. Did they ever send you a drawing of the frame? It would be interesting to see how it stands geo wise.
Tennessee is a hub for FedEx, huge volumes of stuff heading nowhere near TN pass through it daily. Tariffs are only imposed by the country into which an item is imported.

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Sep 26 2018 6:30pm

HI Big Wheel Attached here shows a drawing if you are interested in specs. I am getting the 17.5" size. Also if you are interested the link here viewtopic.php?f=28&t=94960 shows more photos an info regarding the Dengfu frames. This link above is where I originally found out about the M600 drive and the Dengfu offerings.

Another link that may of interest to others as well if anyone is thinking of going with a China direct M600 platform is this Frey offering.... https://wholesaler.alibaba.com/product- ... 78878.html this looks like very good value for the dollar. I am sure for those of us shopping from the Canadian side of things, because of no 25% tariff buying throug the USA this may be a popular option of Canadian choice.
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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Sep 27 2018 7:27pm

Bike is here. Very happy with the overall quality. The bike looks and rides nice. The battery I knew would not be included in the first shipment so just riding it around now as a non electric. I was surprised that there was no throttle supplied with the bike but I am guessing and requested it ships with the battery, not sure why it was not installed with the rest of the kit. Photos show the unboxing and its first test ride with my Son and we both feel the bike is decent quality.

For 5,000 Canadian including shipping but not local taxes - delivered to Canada this seems almost too good to be true. I did use my old dropper post and saddle so saved a few bucks there.
Decent tires, CF rims and frame, XT M8000 group set Yari Rock Shox up front, Bafang M600 motor and (48v 14AH battery pack included in the price but shipment to follow). Accurate weight now with out battery is .... 42lbs so a little heavier than I thought but still happy.
The bike was all in good shape with the exception of the paint scrathes shown in the one photo.
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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Sep 28 2018 7:23pm

I see an xt 60 connector inside the motor so this is good news. I am thinking if I make up a pig tail going from this xt60 to a xt90 I could try out an old 52 Volt pack that I have that has XT 90's , just to see how the drive goes under power. I figure if I run the pack down to a resting 53 volts or so on my other bike then I could use it much like a 48 volt pack would work and not worry about damaging the controller. Then I can go with just a pack back solution for now to hold my 52 V pack until the 48 volt frame specific arrives from Bafang.

The photos here show what is going on inside the motor and also just below the chain stay. The xt 60 connector is straight forward so that makes sense for the battery power going to controler from this connector. What has got me a little puzzled is the purple 6 PIN shown inside the motor housing and also what appears to be the same type of purple connector just below the chain stay. As mentioned earlier the throttle did not ship with the frame and components so I dont have it in my hands so guessing the end on the throttle (to come) will be this 6 Pin purple in a female configuration. I would plug it into the inside of the motor just up above the xt 60 connector if that is the case. I am puzzled with the duplicate of the plugs, why an extra one hanging on the underside of the chain stay which is also show in the other photo.

I am thinking I am OK pluging my old 52 volt pack into the controller even though the drive is rated for either 43 or 48 volts. I think becuase the controller settings will only pull a max of 20 amps or what ever it is programed for I should be OK to take it for a test ride or two if I use the lower assist levels. Any input on this apprciated ........wayne
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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Sep 29 2018 6:04pm

I ran out some AH,s out of my full charge 52v pack today to get the pack down to 54.0. So its now in its resting state just like a fully charged 48 volt pack. Used as a back pack solution until my Bafang pack arrives. At first I had it on the bike stand and powered the bike up and liked what I saw on the display and how that presents itself but to my shock the pedal assist did not kick in. Was a bit worried for a bit and then got to thinking maybe it needs resistance at the BB as it is a torque sensing so took it off the stand and went for a ride and that of course was the problem. Works just fine as it should under load. My HD1000 works as an assist on the stand as its speed or rotation sensored nothing to do with how hard you press on the pedals so this kind of got me confused and thinking something was wrong.

Initial feel on the M600 drive (2 mile test drive) is, its going to be a winner. Very quiet and smooth. Super peppy for a 48 volt system. So nice having a new bike with decent components as everything is butter smooth and happy. I am looking forward to the Bafang pack arriving but I can rest now knowing the bike is working and working well.
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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Drop Dead Fred » Sep 30 2018 8:35am

Hey Wayne,

Which rear shock did you get with this bike, size wise that is?

Thanks,
Fred

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Sep 30 2018 10:42am

HI Fred, the Monarch Rear Rochshox size is 200x57. I dont see the RC3 naming on the shock but it has the three position lever on it so I think it is the RC3 model. ........wayne

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by spinningmagnets » Sep 30 2018 11:50am

Thanks for posting this, Wayne!

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Drop Dead Fred » Sep 30 2018 12:15pm

waynebergman wrote:
Sep 30 2018 10:42am
HI Fred, the Monarch Rear Rochshox size is 200x57. I dont see the RC3 naming on the shock but it has the three position lever on it so I think it is the RC3 model. ........wayne
Thanks Wayne, just needed the 200 x 57. Did you get 150mm with that travel?
Fred

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by devo1223 » Sep 30 2018 1:44pm

Yes thanks for posting I'm hanging on every word because I'm very interested in the this motor and your review of it. I wish I could help you with the purple plug, did the speedometer work?
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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by fechter » Sep 30 2018 1:51pm

You should be fine with a fully charged 52v pack. Nothing will fry but you could possibly have it disable if too high. All the parts are rated for at least 63v.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Sep 30 2018 2:10pm

Fred--- I don't know the travel on rear suspension for the Dengfu frame. As the front Yari's have just a little under 6" at 150mm my best guess is the rear would be 6" of travel but I don't see this spec anywhere listed from Dengfu.

devo1223 ---Regarding the speedometer, yes it works fine. Regarding the purple plugs I am still a little confused as the throttle as I mentioned did not ship. Photos from both Dengfu and Bafang do not show connectors for the throttle, but my best guess is the throttle will come with two purple female plugs. One for the speed sensor and one for the torque but not sure about this. As shown in the earlier photos one 6 pin purple male plug is hanging below the rear chain stay and the other 6 pin purple male plug in inside the motor just above the xt 60 battery connector. One option also may be the throttle comes with only one 6 pin purple male plug and the user chooses either to plug it in under the chain stay for speed sensor or else plug the one 6 pin purple male plug into the motor area for torque sensing. At this point I will just wait until the battery and throttle arrives and figure it out then. For now I am happy enough riding the bike with Battery Back Pack mode and wait for my throttle.

fetcher.... thanks for this info. I will most likely continue to run it at resting 54 volts just to be on the safe side. Just curious, where did you get your info on the M600 to give you the feel the platform is OK with a 52 volt system. I would worry about the controller maybe not happy but not sure?. I am finding it difficult to get much info on this drive other than sales pitches from Bafang.

One thing I forgot to do was to note the max wattage pulled from my short test ride yesterday. I have powered off the bike now of course so that info is lost on my little luna meter, but if I had to guess I say easy 1000 watts. I will wait for a sunny day and do another test and see what kind of watts the controller is pulling. Feels super peppy and quiet for such a little motor. Also the motor's gear reduction seems good. Pretty sure its reduced more than the HD's but I also have much taller gearing now running the 11 speed cassette than my old Sturmey 3 speed IGH and only did a short distance on the first test run. I can easily give pedal input way into it's max speed that is for sure, which I could never do with the my 3 speed running on the old HD1000.

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Bigwheel » Sep 30 2018 8:43pm

Got it direct from Bafang that the motor is good for 52v as that is what I want to run. Nice that it is quiet. Quiet is good.

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Sep 30 2018 9:53pm

Thanks for this Bigwheel. Good to hear confirmation that a 52v pack is OK, this will save me depleating the bigger pack down to 48 volt levels. I wonder if the limits on the controler are based on wattage or amps? If amps alone, then the 52 volt pack will let a person go faster with the same controler settings I guess; but for now the Bafang packs on the drawing board that I have heard about all top out at 48 volt with a yet to be released 1000 wh pack. Bafang also makes a 43 volt for this system but no mention of 52 volt pack being used any where for this M600 that I can find.Having the pack fit inside the frame will be very nice so if there is nothing out there to fit into the frame at 52 volt I will just be happy with the 48 volt from Banfang I think.

Big wheel Can you tell me please the contact info at Bafang for inquires? I have sent one inquiry through the Bafang web site but got no reply. Pokeing around on the Bafang site I see there is also a dealer in Las Vagas but not sure if they know anything about the M600 platform. I will try to phone the USA dealer tomorrow for confirmation on some of the questions I still have on this drive. .....wayne

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by fechter » Oct 01 2018 8:35am

waynebergman wrote:
Sep 30 2018 2:10pm

fetcher.... thanks for this info. I will most likely continue to run it at resting 54 volts just to be on the safe side. Just curious, where did you get your info on the M600 to give you the feel the platform is OK with a 52 volt system. I would worry about the controller maybe not happy but not sure?. I am finding it difficult to get much info on this drive other than sales pitches from Bafang.
I can't remember where I saw a picture of the controller. 63v rated caps. It's just a scaled down version of the Ultra controller. The voltage regulators Bafang uses are 75v rated.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Oct 01 2018 5:27pm

THanks for this Fetcher.
Chipping away at an aluminum bash guard. The factory unit is very light duty plastic, more for looks than anything useful. I have placed a buffer of rubber between the aluminum and the motor to absorb some of the shock if the bash guard gets impacted.
Another quick test ride today between rain showers and I have noticed at 45 kph the limits kick in. So pedaling hard down a slight incline with my 11 tooth rear giving still lots of room for more pedel input you can feel the motor cutting out in and around 45 kmp. I am fine with this , better than 20mph like many drives. Also my little luna meter says I was pulling 850 Max Watts during my test ride with a max 18 AMP draw, this is based on the battery pack being at a resting state of charge 54 Volts . The Battery Pack I am using now is getting a little old so still to be determined if new 52 volt battery (58 V hot of the charger) will give and kind of extra performance.
I am still thinking 48 volts system is just fine for me, also I am under 140lbs in weight so a heavier rider may think differently. No flat stretches on my test ride today and its hard to see how fast it will go with out pedal assist on the flats as I have no throttle yet. So that test is still to come.
It is very cool having the torque sensing, where I could see it being much better than the rotation sensing of the HD drive is if you are riding with a group or a buddy and tring to keep pace with other riders its very easy to nurse your speed depending on how hard you press on the pedals, not so with the rotation sensors I have rode in the past.
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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Drop Dead Fred » Oct 05 2018 9:54pm

Wayne,
Nice cover, was wondering if you needed some holes to dissipate heat?

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Oct 05 2018 11:11pm

Thanks Dropdeadfred for the suggestion. I am pretty sure the bash guard will be fine with out drill outs but I also was thinking of doing that myself but decided against it. I feel the motor will still run cool and there is apparently a temp sensor auto shut down so we will see.

I cut out an opening for the battery wires in the plastic side cover for back pack duties so I could put the cover back on the motor shown in the photo.

Also shown is the little flip flop pivot for rear shock mount for changing the BB height. I swapped that over today to get a little more ground clearance, looks like I get an extra 1/2" or so of ground clearance by moving the rear shock mounting location as shown in the photo.

A few more miles on the bike now so I can comment a bit more on noise levels etc. The drive is very quiet but on slower speeds you for sure here a much higher pitch to the motor sound compared to the HD1000. Once up to say 20mph or so the tire noise will pretty much drown out any motor noise but all in all I would say nice and quiet to the drives sound. I think its because the drive has a good gear reduction that lets the motor spin faster and more effecient than the HD for bicycle duty making for the higher pitch sound of the drive. Just my guess at this point regarding gear reduction.

Throtle and battery still to come which is dissapointing but I will wait paitently for the rest of the package to arrive. The Battery in my Back Pack is not my first choice at all. I am not a fan of a back pack battery solution so so looking forward to getting the bike working as it should.

I realized at time of purchase that the delivery date on the Bafang battery pack was an unknown but very frustrating waiting for it especially when Dengfu gives no meaninfull explaination for when it may be shipped or why the delay. The communication with the Dungfu is the very very poor. I only put up with it because I feel I am getting value for my money ( and also they already have my money :) but very very frustrating. My suggestion to anyone thinking of buying this bike from Dengfu is inquire to different sales representives (you do have a few to choose from on the Alibaba site) from there company and find the one that has the best English skills and then deal with that person. I feel I picked a complete dud regarding a sales rep from Dengfu :( The good news is the bike is awesome :)



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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by TOLM » Oct 06 2018 3:26am

Bike looks great. Thanks for posting.

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by r23ves » Oct 06 2018 4:46am

I'm thinking I might buy a frame from Dengfu and get the other components seperately. Does your bike look like it fits the standard M600 bafang battery https://www.bafang-e.com/en/components/ ... 04600.html? Or is it a custom battery? Thanks

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Oct 06 2018 11:23am

HI R23ves, my best guess is yes that is the pack shape that the Dengfu M09 frame has been designed around. I am under the understanding the pack that comes with my bike should be 48v I notice the pack shown on your link is 43 v. Any news you get on the pack lets us know and also if you find anyone at Bafang helpful pass on there contact info ......wayne

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