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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Posted: Feb 03 2019 5:02am
by adam B
Image
Just got my frame from Riesen g510


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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Posted: Feb 03 2019 4:55pm
by Bigwheel
Very nice Adam. I'll look forward to seeing how it all goes together. You should probably start your own build post though.

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Posted: Feb 06 2019 10:49am
by Surfingjeff
Wayne I checked M2S bikes and they too now have a aluminum frame Bafang M600 mid drive bike available on preorder at $3500 . But I noticed it does not come with a throtttle . This is the only bike they do t have without a throttle . They just say it’s not available. I don’t know there is any speed control. Most all bikes by M2S do not have any speed restrictions like my dual sport 500Watt hub motor goes to about 35 mph with peddling and 25 mph with throttle only.

https://shop.m2sbikes.com/collections/f ... suspension

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Posted: Feb 07 2019 9:06pm
by Bigwheel
Surfingjeff wrote:
Feb 06 2019 10:49am
Wayne I checked M2S bikes and they too now have a aluminum frame Bafang M600 mid drive bike available on preorder at $3500 . But I noticed it does not come with a throtttle .
https://shop.m2sbikes.com/collections/f ... suspension
The M2S mentioned is just a re-hash of the same old 4 bar Alibaba FS design that has been being produced for several years now, albeit with other motors. Geometry wise it is way behind the times as to what is current today, long chain stays, steep head tube and short top tubes are not going to handle as well as bikes that have developed over the years nor be as popular with those that keep track of modern geometry figures.
AT_M600-1.jpg
Eco-Motion lists one with the same frame design, albeit with an external battery, and a integral Bafang 350w mid-drive for around 2k. While it might not be as well speced as that M2S version at the end of the day both bikes are going to basically handle the same. While that feature might not be important to some I feel in order to further the interest in bikes in this price range it is possible to have current geometry at the same price point.

The fact that the M2s does not have a throttle is a deal breaker for me also. It is the main reason I started looking at the M600 and has kept me out of the torque assist integrated motor systems, I don't like the Ultra for my needs, and if they can't get it together soon and back this platform I think they are missing out.

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Posted: Feb 07 2019 9:08pm
by Bigwheel
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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Posted: Feb 07 2019 9:28pm
by waynebergman
Yes I agree with bigwheel, this bike looks kind of dorky complete with kick stand. Real mountain bikes dont have kick stands. Complete with that steep seat tube, the bike just looks like a wall mart special in every way.

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Posted: Feb 07 2019 9:44pm
by Animalector
no bearings either, you can see some sort of plastic bushings on all linkage pivots. I doubt it will last considering the places you can go with an ebike.

There is a plus side.. If the bike is cheap enough, rip the drivetrain, bars, grips, gears, wheels and M600 motor off of that frame, and put it into another frame, a Dengfu or whatever)

Andy

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Posted: Feb 07 2019 10:31pm
by waynebergman
no plus side Andy, waste of paint.

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Posted: Feb 07 2019 10:58pm
by Animalector
Ok ok. Trying to be optimistic :lol: I certainly wouldn't get one

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Posted: Feb 09 2019 2:21pm
by Surfingjeff
I have the hub motor version of this m2s frame and yes it’s heavy , and really it’s not true mountain bike more of a Jeep road bike because when I take it through my normal mountain bike the battery screws rattle out and very cumbersome the shocks bottom out . But my bike was only $1750 so for that price it’s not a bad deal esepciallly with a throttle .its great for commuting through the dirt canyon to my work .

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Posted: Feb 11 2019 12:23pm
by mike425
Hi, really interesting read. I have been looking at the M600 for a while, but it is almost impossible to find any bikes with one in the EU to test.

Do you find that you can reach maximum speed with pedal assist quite easily? If so what is the motor like at this point? Does it decouple? Or do you get noticeable resistance?

I have tested the Bosch motor over and it had a really bad resistance when you hit the limited top speed.

Thanks

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Posted: Feb 11 2019 1:36pm
by waynebergman
Hi Mike
I am thinking back to when I first got the bike when I was on pavement with hills to ride down that would let me feel if it coasted after max speed and letting gravity take you even faster . I think it coasted just fine after the max speed was reached but its been a while. I am in Arizona right now and lots of mountains for MTBing but I am not near any hills that have pavement. I will find one for you and test. Also I will see how easy it is to get to max speed on the flats with pedal assist at level 5 which is max power. If I remember right it was easy to get it to max speed in the flats. Yes it continues to be a bit of a mystery after all this time hardly any of these drives are out there. I have not heard of one single M600 with throttle except mine in North America. I have mixed feelings when riding it as I feel I have a great bike thats kind of rare at this point but allways with my fingers crossed that nothing goes wrong with it.

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Posted: Feb 11 2019 4:04pm
by mike425
That would be great thanks, I think you are the first person I have seen with this motor. I totally get the parts support worries, I am in the process of building a frame for the g510 motor as a commuter/trail bike.

Spare parts over here seem almost impossible to come by for these mid integrated motors.

I have been looking at the m600 as a potential to build an enduro full suspension frame around. I toyed with the idea of using the g510 but it weighs over 7kg which is way to much for a decent MTB.

The m600 on paper sounds ideal as the weight and power sound perfect. It would just be great to know whether it is really in the same ball park as the Bosch/shimano offerings for a proper MTB motor

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Posted: Feb 11 2019 6:25pm
by waynebergman
I will keep you updated Mike on your questions. One option (sounds a little crazy however) buy two complete drives with two batteries and go the dengfu route. Still cheaper than a specilized or the German stuff and you have a throttle to boot.

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Posted: Feb 11 2019 6:35pm
by Animalector
I haven't actually ridden the m600 yet. But I owned and thrashed the previous 350w torque sensor model on an enduro bike and I am confident that it was "right up there" with the likes of Bosch and Shimano. The torque control was excellent, very natural feel, good torque and much quieter than the Shimano. So my guess is the m600 is an improvement.

Andy

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Posted: Feb 13 2019 4:54pm
by waynebergman
Mike to answer your question on coasting after full speed and how easy to pedal assist to full speed here is what I tested today......

On dead flat aground pedalling fairly hard the bike getts up to 43 km no problem. Once the drive cuts out at this speed you can feel the bike slowing because the motor cuts out even if you are still pedalling fairly hard, if you were going down hill you would still be able to COAST faster. So there is no drag coming from the motor just the stopping of the power from the motor so it seems like a bit of a motor break but it is not. I think with the Europe style of programing limits a lower speeds it would be more noticable and annoying but I find at 43 km I am going fast enough anyways and its not an issue at all. Also the reason we get a good range out of these 600wh pack is from the lower speeds so I am fine with the way the cut out works at a max speed of 43km. Not all of these drives come with this pre programed in this way, some will cut out earlier but I dont knnow at what speed, maybe 30km not sure. With very light pedal input - as in just enough to active the torque sensing you are running around 25km on flat ground powerlevel 5 using about 850 watts.

I am 63 years old and not that strong for pedal input and 43km is not problem but it is a bit of a workout, hopes this helps.

Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Posted: Feb 16 2019 7:49am
by mike425
Hi, thanks for that write up, it's very helpful.

I had presumed that the higher top speed on these would mostly hide over any resistance as well but it's good to confirm it.

I need to finish this g510 frame I am making and then I'm pretty set on the m600 now for build number 2.

I had been speaking with dengfu about the fame you have as it does look the part. I don't know why but the fact it's carbon worries me more than if it were alloy. I would be using it at bike parks and for some DH racing so with it being so unsupported over here I have my doubts.

It definitely looks like you biting the bullet had paid off as the whole build looks awesome.