Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Mar 01 2019 7:41pm

HI Vividguy, welcome to the club. Glad to hear you have the bike. I am guessing you are not running a throttle as your battery is not set up for sending power to the throttle - is that correct? Also curious how the bike was shipped to you. Looks like the same frame as mine but mine was pretty much assembled.

Did your bike come from Dengfu and then you assembled it all? If this is the case was there a discount or a reason for the bike to come unassembled? Also are your rimes the CF rims from Dengfu, its hard to tell by the photo. Good luck with the bike Vividguy and keep us posted on how the drive works and especially if you find out options for service and parts in North America..........wayne

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Bigwheel » Mar 01 2019 9:48pm

Nicely done Vivid guy. Looks like you are up to the task! Frame up builds usually take extra time but are worth it in the end. Looking forward to your updates and ride reports.

There is a throttle on the left side of the bars Wayne but I am sure VG can say if it works or not. Did you ever hear back from FLX re parts/service?

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Mar 01 2019 11:25pm

HI Bigwheel, no I did not hear back from FLX. I left a message with my contact info but did not hear back from them.

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Vividguy » Mar 02 2019 1:17am

Hi everyone

I bought only the frame & battery case from dengfu (1000$)
Everything else i built on my own.. Bought all the parts.
The throttle works without that com. From the battery..
I didnt bought CF rims.. Its a 27.5 wide rims 29mm.
You could fit to the frame 2.4 max tyres.
All that is left is to deal with a little bit of cosmetic.

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Vividguy » Mar 02 2019 1:50am

This is the handlebar with everything on it.. Need to merge the wiring.. About the throttle its works fine but dont you expect an uncontrolled power.. Its works acoording to you assist level.
Next step
Is mod the engine.. Can someone in the crowd have the knowledge.. How to?
Is the BBSHD chip works on the M600 engine as well?

Thanks

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Bigwheel » Mar 02 2019 5:47pm

Vividguy wrote:
Mar 02 2019 1:50am
This is the handlebar with everything on it.. Need to merge the wiring.. About the throttle its works fine but dont you expect an uncontrolled power.. Its works acoording to you assist level.
Next step
Is mod the engine.. Can someone in the crowd have the knowledge.. How to?
Is the BBSHD chip works on the M600 engine as well?

Thanks
Didn't see a pic on my end of the handlebars...

Good news about the throttle because that is all I would ask of it anyway. I only use it to get going enough to get myself squared away and feet straightened out on the pedals and the TA to kick in. Maybe once in awhile for a walk assist or to keep momentum in a technical section where crank strikes might be an issue.

I don't think there is much info on modifying the M600, at least that I have seen? Is there anywhere to attach a programming cable? That is how other Bafang products are modified or through the display itself? I would doubt that BBSHD and M600 components are compatible because they are totally different drives but I may be wrong. But perhaps the programming software might be compatible? Time will hopefully tell.

I wish a Bafang engineer monitored ES like some other companies do as that would be a big help to their customers as they try and capture more market share world wide.....

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by wheeliepete » Mar 03 2019 4:32am

Good news on the throttle function with 3rd party battery Vividguy, I was worried Bafang had gone all Bosch on us, makes it much more appealing. Wayne, if you have a programming lead, it might be worth you trying the Ultra-Max software on this drive to get full throttle power on all levels. Does the M600 display still have the green 5 pin connector?

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Mar 03 2019 12:08pm

HI Wheelipete
es 5pin.jpg
es 5pin.jpg (38.92 KiB) Viewed 1168 times
The pin out from dispay to controler is as shown here. 5 pin but not like the 5 pin style I have for my HD1000 programing.

Vividguy if you have the time it would be great to have some photos and instructions posted here on this thread if you can on exactly how you conneceted the throttle to your battery. I have no clue how that would be done and it will be of interest to others if folks want to go 3rd party on a 52 volt pack. This drive would be really nice with a 14s pack and a programable throttle. Its all this kit needs to be pretty much perfect for my needs........wayne

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Rydon » Mar 03 2019 3:15pm

Bigwheel wrote:
Mar 02 2019 5:47pm
...
I don't think there is much info on modifying the M600, at least that I have seen? Is there anywhere to attach a programming cable? That is how other Bafang products are modified or through the display itself? I would doubt that BBSHD and M600 components are compatible because they are totally different drives but I may be wrong. But perhaps the programming software might be compatible? Time will hopefully tell.
...
The Bafang Ultra-Max (g510) uses the same programming cable and can use the same software as the BBSHD/BBS02. The only thing you can't do is program the torque sensing on the Ultra if you use the BBSHD/BBS02 config software. There is a newer version of the configuration software that has one extra page for the torque sensing setup. I have it if anyone wants it.

I wouldn't think Bafang would completely redo the firmware so there is a good chance it would also work on the M600. I wonder if the pinout of the new triangular 5 pin connector is the same as the round one found on older Bafang mid-drive designs. Does anyone have the pinout for the M600 display connector? I have attached a drawing of the pinout for the BBSHD. If you hook up the programming cable to the right signals on the M600 display connector, it would be an interesting test. It shouldn't hurt anything as long as you don't get the wires crossed.
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Bafang BBSHD-BBS02 Wiring Diagram.png

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Rydon » Mar 03 2019 3:35pm

Vividguy wrote:
Mar 02 2019 1:50am
... About the throttle its works fine but dont you expect an uncontrolled power.. Its works acoording to you assist level.
Next step
Is mod the engine.. Can someone in the crowd have the knowledge.. How to?
Is the BBSHD chip works on the M600 engine as well?

Thanks
With the Bafang config software, you can set the throttle to max out at 100% on all assist levels. When you set it up this way it takes away the PAS speed limiting function but you can always just lower your assist level. I prefer to always have max throttle. I don't use the throttle often but when I do it is because I need power quickly. Just need to figure out if the config software works on this motor.

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Mar 03 2019 6:00pm

I think the issue is who will be brave enought to try any kind of custom reprogramming. Dengfu does not respond to any of my emails of late so lets say I fried the controller or somehow lost my settings when trying to adjust settings from how they are now, I would be with out use of the drive for who knows how long. I would not want to try reprograming anything until we have support for these drives in the USA or Canada. This being said I can look forward to the days when these M600 drives are not such a mystery. Its such a shame someone that represents Bafang can not chime in here and help us out. They send reps with M600 display bikes to all the bike shows but can not be bothered to help answering a few questions. I just dont get it how the China model works, would it kill them to have even one English speaking support person for all the drives they are hoping to sell in North America?.......wayne

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Rydon » Mar 03 2019 8:07pm

waynebergman wrote:
Mar 03 2019 6:00pm
I just dont get it how the China model works, would it kill them to have even one English speaking support person for all the drives they are hoping to sell in North America?.......wayne
Actually they do. Joe Zhiang in Las Vegas. Right next door to Ebike Marketplace and Lectric Cycles. He is specifically there to support their branded business and not DIY but I spoke to him at Interbike and he seemed willing to help. I will give him a call.

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Mar 03 2019 8:11pm

Rydon thanks for this. That is good news. If you can ask him to chime in on this thread from time to time would be wonderful. Also if you can leave a contact number on this thread so ES members can make inquiries to him would be very helpful if Joe is open to this.......wayne
Last edited by waynebergman on Mar 03 2019 9:00pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Rydon » Mar 03 2019 8:59pm

waynebergman wrote:
Mar 03 2019 6:00pm
I think the issue is who will be brave enought to try any kind of custom reprogramming. Dengfu does not respond to any of my emails of late so lets say I fried the controller or somehow lost my settings when trying to adjust settings from how they are now, I would be with out use of the drive for who knows how long. I would not want to try reprograming anything until we have support for these drives in the USA or Canada. This being said I can look forward to the days when these M600 drives are not such a mystery.
It is usually guys like us that solve the mysteries. :) If I had an M600 I would try it. I am 99% confident that if I have the signals hooked up right and can read the settings that I can also write them. But yes, it would be nice ...

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Bigwheel » Mar 03 2019 11:12pm

Rydon wrote:
Mar 03 2019 8:07pm
waynebergman wrote:
Mar 03 2019 6:00pm
I just dont get it how the China model works, would it kill them to have even one English speaking support person for all the drives they are hoping to sell in North America?.......wayne
Actually they do. Joe Zhiang in Las Vegas. Right next door to Ebike Marketplace and Lectric Cycles. He is specifically there to support their branded business and not DIY but I spoke to him at Interbike and he seemed willing to help. I will give him a call.
BTN and RPE are fin the same building. Quite the e hotspot going on down there.

https://electricbikereview.com/forum/th ... our.26826/

I agree wholeheartedly that Bafang is missing out not promoting the M600 and supporting it for the US market. It really seems like a great alternative to the EU stuff and, well it has the throttle option which is what makes it most valuable in my eyes at least.

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Rydon » Mar 06 2019 10:54pm

I got some info on programming the M600. It did not come from Las Vega, but China sales. Apparently, Bafang has moved on from the UART protocol used on the BBSxx and Ultra drives. Like all European mid-drive motor manufacturers, they have now standardized on CAN Bus. It uses a broadcast, multi-node protocol. So the M600 is not compatible with BBSxx and Ultra drive config software.

After making a lot of noise about the importance of being able to tune parameters in the motor, I was told that this capability for the M600 is being launched in May. It will be via the Bafang BESST service and diagnostic tool which is a lot pricier than a BBSxx programming cable. Once you get the tool, you need a login from your supplier to be able to use it. I do not have details on what parameters you will be able to adjust but will post them when I do.

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Mar 06 2019 11:13pm

Thanks Rydon for the great info. So good to hear. Keep us posted on any updates.........wayne

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Bigwheel » Mar 07 2019 1:50am

Thanks for making the noise Rydon, I tried to create some myself but didn't get much feedback. The CAN Bus protocols allow for the use of an Ap based tuning system on the EU brands and it is a shame that Bafang isn't going this route also but instead going with proprietary diagnostic tools and login support only from "suppliers". Maybe more noise needs to be made.....but more likely a really large order would open the flood gates...

Another thing not related that Bafang needs to do that I have made several stabs at is to make their hub motors with 32h drillings. The G series especially. There is a way better selection of rims these days in 32h, especially those that are tubeless ready.

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by overdrive » Apr 16 2019 2:10am

Hi,
@waynebergman
can you make some pictures with the inserted batterypack.
And how is the mounting an dismounting of the batterypack?

regards
Over

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Apr 16 2019 9:43am

Hi Over

Photos of the battery in the bike are clearly shown on page 3 of this thread. Check it out and see if it works for you. To answer your question its very easy to click in and out and the fit is nice. I dont take the battery out between rides I just leave it in place.

I am now on the 400 kilometer mark since I bought the bike and the only issues at present is the error 30 code that seems to come and go just after start up. Sometimes I have to power down and start up again a few times before it goes away. Once it settles in its fine and stays working with no error code. A bit of a mystery. When the error code 30 happens you are stuck on just one power level and shortly after it will just quit until you restart the sytem.

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Vividguy » Apr 24 2019 11:39am

Hi everyone

Just wanted to update on my build.
Its 100% finished and its a lean off-road machine.
The motor is running smoothly and the bike feals like a MTB bike with a boost when needed.
Just to update the audience here after chating with bafang.. No such parameters changing tool for the market.. Only thier proprietary tool (besst)
So all the EU are limited to 25 km\h.
The battery location is solid and works well.. It drops out of the frame when key is turned.
Did some small jumps and drops and it handles really well.

I hope to see more builds in the future..
Good luck..
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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » Apr 24 2019 5:43pm

Vividguy, great to hear you are up and riding. Awesome. Keep us in the loop as to how the bike performs and also please if you get any new news on any kind provider in North Americian for tech support and or parts supply for the M600 drive will be greatly appreciated. Lets hope for more people riding these rigs so we can have more sharring of info on the forum here. ....wayne

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by waynebergman » May 29 2019 7:03pm

Just wanted to make a quick update to the thread here.....

Over the last couple of days I had heard that there had been reports of the M600 drive falling a little short on being up to the task. One es member had sent me a PM with the following text....
"I was on Bafang booth at e bike days in Munich last weekend. They had only M500, M620/Ultra and Hub motors there for testing. So the Technical Support Executive say that they has stopped M600 selling end of 2018 in case the torque testing by nylon/plastic gearing they used will break and they did some modify all with steel gears on this 500W Motor System starts for selling now. Also the road motor M800 with used nylon gear was a prototype there and is broken on testdrive last friday :-("

Also I have heard that Luna had done some testing and found the motor in its current configuration to be not up to the task for reliability. Some of the M600 motor weak points being no gaskets, no potted controller, and also plastic drive gear failure. So far so good for my bike but hearing this I will go extra carefull not to put the drive to it limits and also because I am light in weight I may be able to keep the drive running longer than many but I will be reluctant now hearing this to let other people test drive my bike. I also want to share any info they may be relevant to someone considering this drive. As always I have hoped there would be many more M600 brothers out there by now but also trying to honest on what to expect from this drive for prospective buyers.

I guess nothing new to realy report on my bike, still working awesome but as stated before - buyer beware, lets hope for some North American support. Other please chime in if you have any first hand info on this drive........wayne

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Bigwheel » May 29 2019 8:23pm

I had also heard about the gear failure awhile ago...was really hoping this motor would have promise but seems like it may be awhile until it is up to snuff.

I have backed off my efforts to get one until the dust settles and stick with my TSDZ2, which is far from problem free but at least I can fix about anything that goes wrong with it and it’s cheap! I was really hoping to go integrated this year though. I ride my e gravel bikes a lot more than mtb at this time anyway due to lack of quality single track and a plethora of logging roads.

I got a gang mail from Frey the other day that showcased their new M600 fs bike. Same 5 yr old geo and $3k & shipping seemed pretty steep. A Fezzari wire peak that has modern geo can cost less than that albeit using a Shimano motor and no throttle of course.

Thanks for the update Wayne and enjoy your summer on the island!

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Re: Wayne’s Dengfu Carbon Fibre FS 27.5” with Bafang M600 (throttle also)

Post by Eddy Current » Jun 11 2019 7:12pm

Hi Wayne!

Please excuse me but I’m not native english speaker and I find the post too long to read so I got to ask this directly even I guess you already speak about it

Ok, so how does this m600 compare to a Brose Bosch Shimano etc ... it feels much more powerful like the TQ on the Flyon?

Did you still enjoy the bike?

Thanks Wayne

Regards

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