A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Topics on an epic scale that are preserved for all to read.
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amberwolf   100 GW

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Re: A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Post by amberwolf » Aug 12 2011 1:52am

Lessss wrote:I think there should be a topic listing vendors and people with >1000 posts can suggest then vote yes or no to include them on the domain root. Once on the root those companies can be contacted and offered a vendor thread in the for sale section for a small fee. If unscrupulous practices, or crappy products, or lack of warranty support is reported their threads can be locked and their root status removed. They can have admin access to their thread to hide(for our admins review) posts they think are out of line. Our admins can clean up and or restore those posts after review.
I disagree with several parts of this:

--Shouldn't matter how many posts someone has, if it came to such a vote.

--I wouldn't include any vendors on the root page/domain, just the usual marketplace forums for new, used, and wanted.

I wouldn't "sell" any vendor a thread; it's the same thing as selling them an ad space. No need, as anyone can freely post want or sale ads on the marketplace for EV-related stuff (obvious spam ain't gonna stay, though ;)), and probably for non-EV-related stuff as there is not anything that lists what can and cant' be sold there.

--I wouldn't want anyone besides the regular mods/admins (whether I'm part of that group or not) to have access to hide or otherwise alter posts or threads/etc., as there is already a perfectly-working function to report posts that are thought to be problematic, with a space to type in the reason if a premade reason in the dropdown doesn't match, or more detail is desired.

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Re: A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Post by biohazardman » Aug 13 2011 11:42am

Went on vacation 8/4 to 8/8 so missed all the fun? Had access to a laptop but did not check in. Guess I am no longer addicted? ;^) I have seen this sort of thing on another forum and things played out much the same. I too would like to thank Justin and others involved in getting things back to the way they have been here on the ES. There is so much information and sharing without regard for monetary gain, recognition nor any of the other stumbling blocks that often befall us here. This a GREAT place to ask questions and learn things from the simple to the complex. Like many others I would not mind some way of helping support this place on a voluntary basis. Oh, and I think this is likely much better than the 28 pages I missed so thanks for this also.
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Re: A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Post by Jeremy Harris » Aug 16 2011 3:34pm

I've been away from here for a fair while, dealing with real world priorities (like sorting out all the interesting challenges surrounding building a new eco-house here in the UK) and a few other things. Arlo posted on a boat forum, caught my attention and caused me to log in here, only for me to find that WWIII seems to have broken out.

I am as outraged as anyone else that this forum, with all it's freely-given gems of essential information, from people all over the globe, could be seen as a commercial asset. It is exactly this kind of bizarre and unethical trading practice that has got the Western World in the mess it's in today (and helped other countries profit from this at our expense).

I'm grateful to Justin for bringing common sense and decent ethics to bear; it confirms everything I already thought about his ethical view of small scale EVs and the sharing of information for the common good. If donations are needed to keep this forum going, then, like many others, I'll donate again.

I'll keep the views I have about the ethics of what has been going on to myself, suffice to say that the term "monetizing" doesn't figure in my English vocabulary and must be a North American distortion of my language that isn't worthy of inclusion in the OED.

One comment I will make is that the characters behind the attempted coup seem to have made the mistake of assuming that this forum was a US-centric community, with predominately main-stream US-centric views on monetary policy and principles. Had they been familiar with the predominately open-source ethics that dominate this information space they may have thought twice about making such an incredibly dumb move as to try and buy this place for profit.

Justin, if you ever need a contribution towards keeping this place running as a free exchange forum please let me know and I'll donate again.

Jeremy
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Re: A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Post by rebelpilot » Aug 16 2011 4:25pm

After all we have been through, it is good to see a post from Jeremy.

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Re: A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Post by liveforphysics » Aug 16 2011 4:32pm

deVries wrote:
liveforphysics wrote:And of course Methods certainly deserves great praise. :D Even if he is a lunatic. :mrgreen:
This is a mis-quote, I never wrote that.

LI-ghtcycle wrote:
deVries wrote:
liveforphysics wrote:And of course Methods certainly deserves great praise. :D Even if he is a lunatic. :mrgreen:
Again a quote of a mis-quote.


On the topic of mis-quotes, during the revolt, someone altered some of my posts with no editing notice, and not just in ways that lessened the impact, but changed the meaning to something I didn't believe and wouldn't have said because it didn't jive with my own bizarre ethical code. In general, they made things more moderate, but in relation to deleting posts, made it have the reverse meaning (I was pro-deleting posts right up to the moment Justin bought the board, not just to the point they started negotiations.)
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Re: A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Post by methods » Aug 16 2011 4:41pm

I will check the logs and see who edited your posts. Do you have a time/date?
As far as the misquote above - I remember when that was written and it definitely was not you.

I dont even like the idea of deleting posts (though some times it has to happen) but if someone actually modified your posts then that is not ok. I will take action.

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

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Re: A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Post by methods » Aug 16 2011 4:50pm

The moderator logs do not show that anyone edited any of your posts.

The last person to edit one of your posts was me and it was on Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:27 pm
I remember doing it too - we were on the phone when I did it.

Only one of your posts has been modified since July and that one was deleted. Looks like you need to look elsewhere :wink:

-methods

EDIT: Here is the original quote that Luke was misquoted on

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... e.#p445316

EDIT: WTF LUKE? You have posted from over 613 different IP addresses ..... how the hell did you manage that? I think we found our BF :mrgreen:

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

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Re: A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Post by liveforphysics » Aug 16 2011 5:32pm

613 unique IP address? That must be 1 per new ladies house I visit. :-)

Is this over a multi-year period?
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Post by spinningmagnets » Aug 16 2011 5:57pm

Jeremy! I am pleased that you are back posting here. I want you to do all of the things you love, and I am grateful for any time you can squeeze in here. IMHO, your feelings on intellectual property of ES posts hold more weight than most, because you are one of those who have personally provided free and detailed information on much-needed products for the E-bike community.

Your "simple E-bike fuel guage" could have been packaged by you as a loose-parts kit with soldering instructions, and they would have sold well at $30, yet you handed it over to everyone on the proverbial silver platter. Thank you.

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Re: A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Post by amberwolf » Aug 17 2011 1:59am

Very good to see Jeremy back! :)
liveforphysics wrote:613 unique IP address?
<snip>
Is this over a multi-year period?
It doesn't show the dates, unfortunately, nor which IP address is associated with which post(s).

I wish it did, as that could be useful information tracking spammers, etc., or patterns of them, perhaps. Mostly though, it's unneeded info, and probably why it's not in there. :(

FWIW, I have a complete copy of the original open-letter thread, saved as it was ongoing as often as I could check it, and also saved multiple times per page as new posts were added, if you want a copy of the HTML part it's less than 1MB zipped. Unfortunately I *don't* have a copy of *this* thread, as I didn't think it would need saving, not expecting anyone to be going around changing anything at that point. :(

Also: I suspect that most of the unique IPs are from posting using your phone(s), as you've posted about doing that a fair bit; seems a common thing to get a different IP each connection, possibly even changing during the connection if you are online long enough. :)

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Re: A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Post by rkosiorek » Aug 17 2011 10:53am

Thank You Justin.

Thanks to Methods and Ypedal for their negotiations.

I appreciate that this site will remain commercial free except for the "Buy and Sell" forums.

I was beginning to think i may have to find a new home. but it is good to know that this safe haven (relatively speaking) for ideas and information is still here. This is the next best thing to a GNU style GPL for EV and Ebike ideas. Like most contributors, if i want to keep ideas secret, i don't post them. If i do post them, they are free for anyone to use, at no charge, except to give the original author some credit. we all have diverse talents and all have something to contribute. it would be nice to gather some recognition occasionally.

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Re: A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Post by deVries » Aug 17 2011 7:37pm

My Bad. Somehow I got you in there instead of quoting Joseph C. :oops:
liveforphysics wrote:
deVries wrote:
liveforphysics wrote:And of course Methods certainly deserves great praise. :D Even if he is a lunatic. :mrgreen:
liveforphysics wrote:This is a mis-quote, I never wrote that.

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Re: A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Post by deVries » Aug 17 2011 7:44pm

liveforphysics wrote:(I was pro-deleting posts right up to the moment Justin bought the board, not just to the point they started negotiations.)
Does this mean a lot of your tech posts are erased from ES now? :(

If yes, can these be reposted & recovered :?:

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Re: A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Post by johnrobholmes » Aug 17 2011 8:56pm

He never hit the self destruct button, but he among other members were ready to prevent the their content from being commercialized!


I'm glad we have a member group that saw it coming before it happened, I'm still ashamed that I didn't see the writing on the wall until it was almost too late. As I will be for years to come. Live and learn!

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Re: A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Post by Blueshift » Aug 17 2011 11:13pm

Firstly, I want to extend My thanks to Justin. Even though I am a total newb to the site, I have already learned a lot in the past few months from this place. While I have not put in as much time as many(nearly everyone) in the community I still consider this forum important to me. And as far as I know Justin's intervention is a Good Thing.

That being said I am a skeptic and would like to ask a few questions. I should note that I am not an expert on the subject of computers and don't mean to offend anyone.

1. With such an Investment, it is hard to believe that someone would give up so easily. What if this is a staged transfer of Power to lower your defenses then implement some type of stealthier way to gain revenue? (which may be objectionable and disregard certain privacy issues).

2. Ad Revenue is not the only method of revenue that may be objectionable. As far as i know Companies and third parties pay to "data mine" websites so someone correct me if i am wrong, but isn't information a hot commodity in the recent years on the internet? Of course, at the same time being considered unethical in its many uses and the way that information is obtained. So what if the website were to take your words, your ideas, or (not sure about this) your blueprints and use that unethically? Maybe it could be used for advertising or... is it possible that someone could even patent something using the information in this site? (not just in the forums but even from a private message someone might send.)

Those two things I am not sure have already mentioned.. and I apologize if I overlooked someone who has already mentioned this or if My understanding is not correct.

With this stuff in Mind Should there be a redefined tos, and privacy statement?
I say these things out of curiosity and concern.

P.S. Facebook and Google come to mind

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Re: A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Post by oldpiper » Aug 18 2011 7:59am

Blueshift wrote: [speaking of earning revenue] is it possible that someone could even patent something using the information in this site? (not just in the forums but even from a private message someone might send.)
IANAL, but if you have seen it here and it works (is not just an "it would be really neat if..." post), then it is in the public domain because this forum is unrestricted for reading, therefore it cannot be patented except by the person who posted it or the original inventor (who would have to supply documentation that s/he did it before it became public knowledge).

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Re: A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Post by number1cruncher » Aug 18 2011 9:56am

oldpiper wrote:
Blueshift wrote: [speaking of earning revenue] is it possible that someone could even patent something using the information in this site? (not just in the forums but even from a private message someone might send.)
IANAL, but if you have seen it here and it works (is not just an "it would be really neat if..." post), then it is in the public domain because this forum is unrestricted for reading, therefore it cannot be patented except by the person who posted it or the original inventor (who would have to supply documentation that s/he did it before it became public knowledge).

Cameron
They are soon changing the patent laws in the US to be first to submit is the winner. No longer will there be the burden of proof that someone created something first, what a headache. This will extremely speed up the innovations of this country, since litigation will be cut short.
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Re: A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Post by liveforphysics » Aug 18 2011 10:01am

Nope. More patents will only mean more corruption, more lawyers getting a payday and more lawyers being created looking for new arteries to vampire dry.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Post by ambroseliao » Aug 18 2011 10:21am

If you want a good primer on the dysfunctional patent system we have now as well as how some are profiting from it and stifling innovation, listen to the following program. It's an hour long but well worth it!

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-a ... nts-attack

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Re: A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Post by number1cruncher » Aug 18 2011 10:38am

liveforphysics wrote:Nope. More patents will only mean more corruption, more lawyers getting a payday and more lawyers being created looking for new arteries to vampire dry.

That may be so, but I trust my grandfather's wisdom more than anyone on this board. He was a electrical engineer, patent attorney and patent judge, who spent many years at the PTO. He always advocated for a first to file system, because it would reduce bureaucracy and increase innovation. God rest his soul!
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Re: A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Post by Arlo1 » Aug 18 2011 10:50am

Patents are designed to make people money! China will just knock off your idea and you will get nothing the only one who wins are the lawers and People who charge you for the papework for the patent. We are heading into a new world with the electric revalution and ES is about pushing for it! It may take some years to get there but it will be worth it!
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Re: A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Post by methods » Aug 18 2011 11:46am

number1cruncher wrote:
liveforphysics wrote:Nope. More patents will only mean more corruption, more lawyers getting a payday and more lawyers being created looking for new arteries to vampire dry.

That may be so, but I trust my grandfather's wisdom more than anyone on this board. He was a electrical engineer, patent attorney and patent judge, who spent many years at the PTO. He always advocated for a first to file system, because it would reduce bureaucracy and increase innovation. God rest his soul!

Right - your grandfather is a smart man because he is one of the lawyers making money off of inventors patents. I would trust his wisdom too. :)

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

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Re: A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Post by ptd » Aug 18 2011 12:13pm

lawyers. bloodsucking, paper shufflin, button pushin, wealth redistributin, POS's. shakespeare had it right, kill'em all. and as a nice side benefit, we might get rid of all the beaurocrats as well. probably all of the lobbyists too. go easy on my niece, she just started. maybe we could have a sorta age discrimination thing. longer you been a lawyer, higher on the hit list you are.

ps, if it takes years, it ain't a revolution. it's an adustment period that allows those in power to redistribute their portfolios.
woohoo, knightmb is gone, now where's his ill gotten gains ?

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Re: A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Post by Tiberius » Aug 18 2011 12:31pm

I thought we already had a first to file system, at least over here. If there is no public disclosure then it's the date of filing that's important.

When I was employed, many years ago, employers would pick up the tab for a patent application. But working for myself, I soon realised the expense and hassle involved. I had a meeting with a patent agent once, and to be honest, it was exactly like dealing with a lawyer and exactly not like dealing with an engineer.

What I've done instead, quite a few times, is to file an initial application myself. That gives me a breathing space (a year in the UK system) but at the expense of public disclosure, and sets a filing date.

Sometimes the issue when you come up with an idea is just to stop someone else patenting it against you, and to make sure you get the kudos. In that case, publishing the idea is a good route, and that's one of the services that ES can provide. I can just see patent lawyers of the future reading the ES archives - at someone else's expense of course.

Anyway, that's enough of that. I don't think I've said it publicly and formally already, so here goes. Thank you, Justin; well done to the organisers behind the scenes and the agitators. And it's good to see Jeremy back.

Nick

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Re: A Summary Letter for the ES Community

Post by Arlo1 » Aug 18 2011 12:56pm

ptd wrote:.ps, if it takes years, it ain't a revolution. it's an adustment period that allows those in power to redistribute their portfolios.
Well I have been on this forum for over 2 years....... So I guess its all over we should through in the towl
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