Carbon Fiber E-Frame built ! by Doc

Doctorbass · Mar 19, 2016

chucho said:
Doctorbass said:

chucho said:

Doc what anderson´s conector are you using to conect fases outside motor?

Click to expand...

I am using the 6mm bullet connectors that come with the Adaptto. For that kind of power these beat easy the anderson for their low resistance and how compact they are!

Doc

Click to expand...

Thank you Doc.

I mean these conectors

What size are they?

These are the PP30 ( Powerpole from Anderson) and i use the 30A contact instead of the 45A because i prefer their design. also i am using 10 AWG wire with these witch is unusual and require modifying these and understand how to do it.. i posted a video of that on my YT account

Doc

ridethelightning · Mar 19, 2016

is it just the light or does that motor have a blue tinge from being cooked

Doctorbass · Mar 24, 2016

No that's a special paint that is called cameleon.. it change apparent color depending on the angle of view

If that motor would be cooked the stator winding color would not remain orange but would be Black mat !! :twisted:

Doc

Samd · Apr 28, 2016

Awesome work doc. You like the PP30's for phase connections? Enough juice for the RMS-equivalent phase amps?

Doctorbass · Apr 28, 2016

Samd said:
Awesome work doc. You like the PP30's for phase connections? Enough juice for the RMS-equivalent phase amps?

Well for the previous kit it was Ok but now i'm using the XT150 bullet.

Doc

Samd · Apr 28, 2016

That makes sense. Enjoy your coming summer - its just started to rain here!

Winter looms...

DasDouble · Apr 20, 2017

@Doc, what painting did you use to cover your innder side covers of your hubbies against rust? Mine starts to collect some rust now and I want to do something about it. You have mentioned once some black painting.. Does it maybe do this job already?

Thanks a lot! -Elias

Allex · Apr 20, 2017

Doctorbass said:
Samd said:

Awesome work doc. You like the PP30's for phase connections? Enough juice for the RMS-equivalent phase amps?

Click to expand...

Well for the previous kit it was Ok but now i'm using the XT150 bullet.

Doc

I found that MP JET connectors are superior to xt150
They have better quality and a lot better design when it comes to the female, where it does pinch around the male with the help of a spring. Really like how they feel! And they state to have less resistance than xt150

ridethelightning · Apr 20, 2017

Allex said:
Doctorbass said:

Samd said:

Awesome work doc. You like the PP30's for phase connections? Enough juice for the RMS-equivalent phase amps?

Click to expand...

Well for the previous kit it was Ok but now i'm using the XT150 bullet.

Doc

Click to expand...

I found that MP JET connectors are superior to xt150
They have better quality and a lot better design when it comes to the female, where it does pinch around the male with the help of a spring. Really like how they feel! And they state to have less resistance than xt150

this is a subject i know little about, but since discovering that adaptto is not even using genuine amas xt150s, i started to hatch a plan to sort any possible poor contacts in the system. for battery connections i decided to go with the xt90s, replacing the stock adaptto ones, but using both poles for the connections(so good for 180A hopefully), with single 8awg cable, but for the phase cables/plugs, i decided to use 6awg silicone wire, with proplus 8mm bullets-
https://www.ercmarket.com/reviews.php?productid=51740
as i have heard that this is where the losses are likely to be higher, with the higher phase amps, so i thought if im running 300plus phase amps, why am i using fake xt150 that may not even be good for 150A?

so shoot me down if its overkill on a 14kw bike, but i thought this would at least leave no doubt :mrgreen:

Allex · Apr 20, 2017

Yeah, when Andreym worked there at the beginning, they used AMASS, then later on they switch to fake ones. Now with the latest batch They use AMASS again due to complains. I like your RCPROPLUS connectors as you can actualy reuse the plastic isolator unlike xt150 where you often need to cut it when moving connector to another cable.

bigbore · May 23, 2017

Have a look at what I found looking for AMASS connectors:
Amass AS150

https://drotek.com/shop/en/home/655-amass-xt150-as150-lipo-connector.html

Doctorbass · May 23, 2017

It would be interesting to test and compare all these.

Dont forget that these Amass are like "inrunner" and the regular Xt150 are "outrunner".. i mean the outrunner type have larger diameter where the contact is made :wink: = more surface. But it would be interesting to test test these.

I use the XT150 and also the 10mm bullet connectors and these work great..

but the problem is HOW PEOPLE SOLDER THEM witch become sometime MORE IMPORTANT than the contact resistance themself...

If only making a bath of solder in the cup and drop the strands into it.. it give VERY poor result..

Problem is that people think that solder is a good conductor as copper or silver.. :roll:

witch is way far from that! :roll:

Personally what i do is to take all strands of the wire and make a kind of mushroom shape with thesse to match all the inner surface of the contact cup o fthe XT150 and the 10mm bullet... then i apply flux and then solder and finally remove the excess flux.

This way the resistance between the wire and the contact pin is way less and you get less heat!..

but about the contact itself it also depend on how their spring effect is preserved.. Personally i bend all these a bit to have them VERY tight in the contact.

Strangely.. on E-S i'm sure we will still see people with these Amass connectors and use solderless battery pack design :lol:

Doc

madin88 · May 23, 2017

The spring effect of the fake XT 150 is quite poor and the housing doesn't hold well. No surprise that adaptto got complains..
For the current handling the wire size is one of the most important things. Large wires carry away heat from the contacts making the connectors to stay cool.

macribs · May 23, 2017

madin88 said:
The spring effect of the fake XT 150 is quite poor and the housing doesn't hold well. No surprise that adaptto got complains..
For the current handling the wire size is one of the most important things. Large wires carry away heat from the contacts making the connectors to stay cool.

Hm I got me thinking of the early days of boom car stereo. We used "garden hose" sized cables for power from under the hood and routed to boot. If we were out of correct connectors we used smaller ones and stripped the end of wiring to fit the connector. Sometimes as much as half the strands needed to go before soldering wire to connector. The idea was that because in 5-6 m cable even if we removed half the strands for say half inch on length the cable would still have overall capacity to function well.

Looking back I can't imagine anyone of us did any testing to check if that was actually the truth. But hey young and dumb and full of, well you know.

What do you think, if cable is thicker then connector, will removing strands fcuk it all up so that it can't hold high amp? Or will it be hardly any negative effect at all?

DasDouble · May 23, 2017

macribs said:
madin88 said:

The spring effect of the fake XT 150 is quite poor and the housing doesn't hold well. No surprise that adaptto got complains..
For the current handling the wire size is one of the most important things. Large wires carry away heat from the contacts making the connectors to stay cool.

Click to expand...

Hm I got me thinking of the early days of boom car stereo. We used "garden hose" sized cables for power from under the hood and routed to boot. If we were out of correct connectors we used smaller ones and stripped the end of wiring to fit the connector. Sometimes as much as half the strands needed to go before soldering wire to connector. The idea was that because in 5-6 m cable even if we removed half the strands for say half inch on length the cable would still have overall capacity to function well.

Looking back I can't imagine anyone of us did any testing to check if that was actually the truth. But hey young and dumb and full of, well you know.

What do you think, if cable is thicker then connector, will removing strands fcuk it all up so that it can't hold high amp? Or will it be hardly any negative effect at all?

I have asked a friend of mine the same question, if it matters if a thick cable gets into a small connector. He said that it won´t affect it too much, if the connection is good enough and when the cable isn´t too long as the longer the cable, the more resistance, the more heat gets develloped.

DasDouble · May 23, 2017

Doctorbass said:
Strangely.. on E-S i'm sure we will still see people with these Amass connectors and use solderless battery pack design :lol:

Doc

:wink:

...

What I wonder, is there are some stronger connectors then these xt 150 ones. I couldn´t finde any yet. I mean for like maybe 200 - 250 Amps?

Edit: Yes, of course you can two xt 150 in parallel, but is this really the way to go?

Cowardlyduck · May 23, 2017

When I use XT150 connectors (which I use everywhere) my method is;
1)Flux and Pre-tin the wire, making sure it still fits in the cup (8awg can be tight)
2)Half to 3/4 fill the cup with solder using mini blow torch
3)Heat the cup till solder starts boiling, then slowly touch pre-tinned wire to top of cup being careful not to let solder spew out the sides
4)Once the Pre-tinned wire solder melts, insert the wire further (I usually use helping hands or something similar as the wire will get very hot)
5)Keep inserting wire until it stops hitting the bottom of the cup. This will only be possible without the solder spewing out the sides if the wire gets hot enough to wick solder into it as you insert further.

I've found this method produces the best electrical and mechanical bond. The only catch is the wire can become stiff around the back of the connector from wicking up the solder which then hardens in the wire so it's important to keep the wire straight as the solder hardens. It's not a huge issue, but could be problematic if your relying on the flexibility of the wire right behind the connector.

Cheers

Offroader · May 23, 2017

Allex said:
Yeah, when Andreym worked there at the beginning, they used AMASS, then later on they switch to fake ones. Now with the latest batch They use AMASS again due to complains. I like your RCPROPLUS connectors as you can actualy reuse the plastic isolator unlike xt150 where you often need to cut it when moving connector to another cable.

YOu can definitely reuse the plastic xt150 covers without cutting. What you need to do is heat them with a heat gun, but not too much or you will melt them.

use a vice to hold the plastic cover, but not to grip it, just to hold the connector by the wider diameter top part, the plastic connector should move freely back and forth in the vice, but obviously not down.

Then just knock out the copper connector from the back with a screw driver and a hammer, screw driver touches the solder in the connector. The key is to have the plastic heated so it knocks out easily.

ridethelightning · May 23, 2017

Offroader said:
Allex said:

Yeah, when Andreym worked there at the beginning, they used AMASS, then later on they switch to fake ones. Now with the latest batch They use AMASS again due to complains. I like your RCPROPLUS connectors as you can actualy reuse the plastic isolator unlike xt150 where you often need to cut it when moving connector to another cable.

Click to expand...

YOu can definitely reuse the plastic xt150 covers without cutting. What you need to do is heat them with a heat gun, but not too much or you will melt them.

use a vice to hold the plastic cover, but not to grip it, just to hold the connector by the wider diameter top part, the plastic connector should move freely back and forth in the vice, but obviously not down.

Then just knock out the copper connector from the back with a screw driver and a hammer, screw driver touches the solder in the connector. The key is to have the plastic heated so it knocks out easily.

cool. thanks for that, ill give it a try

Offroader · May 23, 2017

Just remember on the xt150 the plastic housing gets put on the copper connector through the back, so it will have to be removed this way. This is why you have to remember to actually put the plastic housing up on the wire before you solder the connector.

Some connectors are different, the EC5 plastic housing gets pushed on through the front, so you can solder the connector onto the wire than just push on the plastic housing.

A metal file is also very useful if you spill any soldier on the outside of the connector when soldering, just file it off or the plastic housing will not fit properly and rotate freely.

whereswally606 · May 24, 2017

talking about connectors, what I really what to see is a crimpable end like you see on heavy copper lug spade connectors, but which have the mating ends like bullets. Its been stated somewhere here that crimped and then soldered would be best of both (and also the easiest most repeatable connection.) I guess in some respect that is just an Anderson connector but I prefer circular design of the bullet style connectors cause you don't have to be so careful aligning your wires together or need the expensive anderson crimping tool.

My crimping tool is a hefty hammer press thing which can cope with quite thick wires and didn't cost too much.

draper-battery-terminal-crimping-tool-model-no-btct-p90742-62044_medium.jpg

used this (one like it) for doing all my interconnects on the emax lifepo4 battery. I guess for phase wires you could lap the lugs contact area connect them using a 3d printed box with captive holes for the hex bolts you fasten them with.

Anyway slightly OT now.

Arlo1 · May 24, 2017

This is what I use I have one of the hammer things as well but this does a much better job.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/8-Ton-Hydraulic-Wire-Terminal-Crimper-Battery-Cable-Lug-Crimping-Tool-w-Dies-/291847180745?hash=item43f37291c9:g

EAAAOSw0UdXsnr4

madin88 · May 24, 2017

DasDouble said:
What I wonder, is there are some stronger connectors then these xt 150 ones. I couldn´t finde any yet. I mean for like maybe 200 - 250 Amps?

Edit: Yes, of course you can two xt 150 in parallel, but is this really the way to go?

you could use 8mm bullet connectors, or the above mentioned larger Amass with screw on housing.
i have worked with both and they are much larger in size as the XT 150 used on adaptto.

the A-ratings of those connectors you should not take too seriously, because for true 150A continuous current (24/7 in free air) you need about 35mm² wire or even larger

http://docplayer.org/docs-images/33/16121856/images/78-0.png

aside from the resistance of the connection, the size of the wire is REALLY important for the temperature. the wire length is a different problem

whereswally606 · May 25, 2017

Thanks Arlo, that's not even crazy priced. I still like the idea of crimpable bullets though just which they were mass produced.

EDIT they are mass produced but they are the dog shit ones that often come on the cheap ebike controllers in the first place. I hate it when a poor mass produced version swamps the chance of decent type being found on the web.

Doctorbass · May 25, 2017

Ok guys. Not that this connector subject is not interesting but could we return to the original subject of this thread :lol:

All your great advices and experiences about these connectors could be found easier if discussed in a thread with the good title! We all know the E-S search is "awsome" :lol: tool to find everything.

Thanks!

Doc

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