What will it take to make ebikes, More mainstream ?

Izits said:
rumme said:
Izits said:
This particularly perplexed me:
rumme said:
I think a big reason why ebikes are not as popular in the U.S., is because our society is largely out of shape/ overweight and downright spoiled.
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We're spoiled? What, people should want to make their lives less convenient, less happy? You've got to be kidding me.
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Yes, I want laws passed to make it a crime if people live to " spoiled" . We will start with you personally , and send a governmental task force to your home to investigate.

Now don't get mad, I'm just playing into your delusional rants on this thread. If you happen to see a SUV with blackened windows driving by your home, you will know what its all about.
//
Dude, taking a fking chill pill . You sound like a raving lunatic. I never enforced my opinion on anybody, for Gods sakes, its just a fkin chat forum.
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I don't get it, you've made four posts in a row like you don't know what to think or what to say. I'm assuming you're just angry because I've identified something you said that you possibly didn't mean to say. But instead of just admitting the case, you make this big show of personal attacks and innuendos. I think it's pretty clear who's raving here.


I just asked a simple question, why should anyone be expected to intentionally make their lives less spoiled, less convenient or less happy? Isn't the goal in life to bring yourself as much personal satisfaction as possible without infringing on othres? You can't fault people for doing exactly that.
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Not at all , you seem upset that I correctly stated that American citizens are spoiled. I find it funny, how you act as though the spoiled lifestyle of americans, in NO WAY, infringes or takes advantages of other people from other nations . I guess you never heard of slave workers overseas working 80 hour work weeks , for pennies a hour, in dangerous conditions , just so americans can get their lower priced shoes , toys , electronic gadgets, Walmart items , etc.

You seem to live in this fantasy that the spoiled lifestyles we have here in America, do not take advantage of or endanger the lives of countless other people in other nations . Then you try to imply that I want to control if other people ride a ebike or not. You seem like a lonely person, just looking for a argument.
 
rumme said:
Izits said:
I just asked a simple question, why should anyone be expected to intentionally make their lives less spoiled, less convenient or less happy? Isn't the goal in life to bring yourself as much personal satisfaction as possible without infringing on othres? You can't fault people for doing exactly that.
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Not at all , you seem upset that I correctly stated that American citizens are spoiled. I find it funny, how you act as though the spoiled lifestyle of americans, in NO WAY, infringes or takes advantages of other people from other nations . I guess you never heard of slave workers overseas working 80 hour work weeks , for pennies a hour, in dangerous conditions , just so americans can get their lower priced shoes , toys , electronic gadgets, Walmart items , etc.

You seem to live in this fantasy that the spoiled lifestyles we have here in America, do not take advantage of or endanger the lives of countless other people in other nations . Then you try to imply that I want to control if other people ride a ebike or not. You seem like a lonely person, just looking for a argument.
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Where is all this hostility coming from? I quoted one thing I didn't understand and later formed it into a single question. I was nothing but friendly and you did nothing but attack me.

It's not that I care at all who you think is spoiled, I just don't understand why you want anyone to not be spoiled. Being spoiled just means to be happy and fulfilled. Again I ask, why would you fault anyone for choosing to be happy and comfortable?

All that drivel about "slave workers" is just liberal noise, there's no real basis in fact there.
 
Again you disregard externalities-- in this case, people in other countries getting screwed out of the fruits of their labor Americans can underpay. And it's set up this way so Americans can be pacified while being screwed out of the fruits of their own labor, distracting themselves with cheap toys bought on credit.

But it's okay with you if greedy bastards do all sorts of horrible things, as long as it's not you paying the price, right?
 
Chalo said:
Again you disregard externalities-- in this case, people in other countries getting screwed out of the fruits of their labor Americans can underpay. And it's set up this way so Americans can be pacified while being screwed out of the fruits of their own labor, distracting themselves with cheap toys bought on credit.

But it's okay with you if greedy bastards do all sorts of horrible things, as long as it's not you paying the price, right?
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As usual Chalo, you're out of your league here. You assume there's some logical backing for the liberal rhetoric you've been taught, but there isn't. I'm happy to discuss this subject if you'd like, but you'll just come off looking foolish again.
 
Luna Cycles and Sondors are double handedly taking ebike mainstream in the USA. Its happening now. You guys really don't see it? Luna and Sondors are taking the market by storm. Luna for the high end and sondors for the low end. The revolution is upon us.
 
mr.electric said:
Luna Cycles and Sondors are double handedly taking ebike mainstream in the USA. Its happening now. You guys really don't see it? Luna and Sondors are taking the market by storm. Luna for the high end and sondors for the low end. The revolution is upon us.
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Yes, IMHO..Sondors has done more then any single entity to make the ebike community more accessible to the masses . Of course I understand his offerings are not the highest quality but as is often then case, this is what happens when you introduce any consumer item to the masses, at the lowest possible price points.
 
To answer the question that Izits has been asking, which is why wouldn't people choose the option that results in the most comfort and convenience, there's a lot more to it than that. By framing the question that way, you're making a lot of assumptions without realizing it, and I believe that some of those assumptions are faulty.

For instance, I gave up my car almost a year ago and now get around almost entirely by E-bike with a little public transit sprinkled in. In addition to saving massive amounts of money, I've lost 30 lbs, I actually enjoy the trips I take, and my travel times are much shorter. Long distance trips do take a bit longer, but I can read or study on the train or bus. My comfort and convenience are way up since I stopped driving, and I suspect that the reason most people default to getting around by car has more to do with conditioning and lack of knowledge about alternatives than real benefits. It's gotten to the point where I don't even like to take Lyft or Uber anymore because I don't like being stuck in a metal box and would rather pay extra to rent a scooter if I don't have my bike, and this remains true even when it's raining or 100+ degrees outside. Yes, cold rain is uncomfortable but I'd rather have a few drops of rain on my face than deal with the bad visibility of driving in poor weather. Yes, cycling in super-hot weather is not fun, but I wear shorts and a t-shirt and let the motor do most of the work. The wind in my face takes a lot of the pain out of the heat, and it's a lot less uncomfortable to me than to step out of an air-conditioned car into the furnace.

The other part is the massive allocation of taxpayer money that goes to building and maintaining the automobile infrastructure. Critics of trains and mass transit always point out that fares only cover a fraction of the costs to operate the system, but they forget to mention the percentage of costs covered by fares to use the freeway (zero). They'll also compare costs of transit projects in the downtowns of major cities with the per-lane-mile costs of highways that usually extend suburbs and exurbs. Or factor in the cost of the trains that run on the track but not the cars and trucks that drive on the road. The truth is that roads and highways will always cost more than other ways of getting around, and automobiles are just as dependent on the continuous flow of taxpayer dollars as mass transit. The only difference is that it's a lot more dollars.

If that weren't enough, there are other hidden costs that people don't think about. Look at aerial photos of most American shopping centers. Most of the real estate is taken up by parking lots, which makes sense because it takes 6 cars worth of space for one parking spot if you want to ensure that there is enough room to drive around and get in and out of the spaces. This means that every company needs to lease or buy 3x as much land as their business requires, and that means higher prices across the board, both in the price of real estate and all of the things we buy.

There are social costs as well: In the old days, the streets were places that people could congregate and socialize. Now they're a no-man's-land where pedestrians are only allowed to venture in designated crosswalks at designated times on pain of vehicular slaughter. We've banned ourselves from most of the land in our own cities, and given up a sense of community and closeness for isolation and alienation. The average American wakes up in a box, gets in a box to go to work, works in a box, and then goes home the same way. It's entirely possible to go an entire day, even entire weeks without having a genuine, meaningful interaction with another human being.

So to the question of why we shouldn't choose the most convenient option, I respond that driving often isn't that option. When it is, it is because of deliberate choices made by government officials that ban us from our own streets, keep taxpayers on the hook for trillions of dollars, impose tremendous environmental and health costs, and erode the bonds of our society. I've been a suburbanite who took 100% of all trips by car, and I've been a cyclist who uses mass transit when necessary, and the second lifestyle is better in every way.
 
arthurtuxedo said:
To answer the question that Izits has been asking, which is why wouldn't people choose the option that results in the most comfort and convenience, there's a lot more to it than that. By framing the question that way, you're making a lot of assumptions without realizing it, and I believe that some of those assumptions are faulty.
(5 well written paragraphs)
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I think we're having a bit of a terminology miscommunication here, although I did enjoy your post. It's probably my fault. I wasn't asking why people would ever choose to do something less comfortable. You addressed that very well in your first paragraph and I completely understand and agree with you.

Rumme originally criticized people for being too downright spoiled. Spoiled doesn't mean lazy and it doesn't necessarily mean they take the easy road or do the least amount of work. It means they get what they want all the time. In your case, you enjoy riding your bike so in your case that makes you spoiled. So if I accuse you of being too spoiled, I'm saying you should stop riding your bike and do something less enjoyable like drive a car.

You can see that in this context it makes sense that we want everyone to be spoiled all the time. It was a very simple comment I made, I don't know how it became such an issue.
 
Interbike this year seems like it's about 50/50 between ebikes and non-ebikes, and the test track was a blast to ride with around 30-50 other ebikers at once, many of them being decent riders.

I think the fastest bike I tried today was a vintage electric bike that I'm guessing is ASI based from being so smooth and having wide power band (field weakening).

Caught my jeans in some chains, and nearly rolled a trike a few times but managed no wrecks today fortunately, but I was taking it easy with my back recovery.
 
Warren said:
Putting a price on CO2 would do it. Cars of any type would quickly become unaffordable . . . .
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Not EV's or pluggables.

Pluses: would still reduce traffic, would reduce fuel usage AND reduce CO2 emissions.
Minuses: no more following an SUV on your bike in the winter to stay warm.
 
Maybe if I were still single, I would be able to give up cars completely, it's difficult to be time efficient without a car in Southern California when you have the typical nuclear family. If you'd ask me 6 years ago if I ever saw myself buying a minivan, I'd say not in a million years. Now I have a minivan...

I do ride my e-bike / take the train to work, but it's definitely more for the fun of being on two wheels. It is faster than taking my car as I can cut through the neighborhoods and parks rather than sit at stop lights.

I'd love to be a bit more green, but if that were the case, I would've gotten a 250W geared hub on a light road bike and not a behemoth of a clonebix. :lol:
 
Izits said:
arthurtuxedo said:
Rumme originally criticized people for being too downright spoiled. .
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And my comment is correct. America leads the world in obesity , laziness and arrogance. Our 9 year old children fully expect to be given the newest $500 iphones . Americans by and large are gluttons and narcissists . Social media outlets and all you can eat buffets support this fact. If we go back only 50 -80 years ago and look at our society, we still had work ethics and were in decent physical shape. I love to look at older black and white photos of Americans and take note of how obesity wasn't even a issue back then, now it is plague upon our society. You wont get obese thru hard work and solid healthy eating habits. Spoiled lifestyles that lead to laziness and gluttony cause a society to become obese and unappreciative and dependent upon pharmaceutical drugs , even at a young age . This is the American society of today. Ignore it all you wish.

I guess the one good aspect of this is, each person is given the rope, and they chose to hang themselves or not . Yes, you seem to insinuate that there is no such thing as being to spoiled. I adamantly disagree. Adults and children often acquire negative/ destructive consequences from being to spoiled.
 
rumme said:
If we go back only 50 -80 years ago and look at our society, we still had work ethics and were in decent physical shape.
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And yet most were ignorant racist pieces of shit and died in their 60s and 70s. Draw your own conclusions.
 
Chalo said:
rumme said:
If we go back only 50 -80 years ago and look at our society, we still had work ethics and were in decent physical shape.
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And yet most were ignorant racist pieces of shit and died in their 60s and 70s. Draw your own conclusions.
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Racism is a human trait that has been around for eons. That's not gonna change much. As far as life spans , we are told the average life expectancy has increased from decades ago. If true, I would claim that is largely because humans are now walking pharmacies. The average adult over 40 is now taking at least 1 form of permanent medication and many under that age are also doing it. If life expectancy has increased, its not because humans are taking better care of their bodies.
 
to make ebikes mainstream?
Frankly I dont want ebikes become mainstream where I live.
Where I live Western Canada.
Still I am on weird looking bike with people giving me weird looks - what is this?
and I enjoy this way.
Imagine every third, every forth ride on bike path is electric!!
That would be the end to my opportunity charging, end to my riding on pathways.
every pathway has warning on entrance - no motorized vehicles.
 
miro13car said:
to make ebikes mainstream?
Frankly I dont want ebikes become mainstream where I live.
Where I live Western Canada.
Still I am on weird looking bike with people giving me weird looks - what is this?
and I enjoy this way.
Imagine every third, every forth ride on bike path is electric!!
That would be the end to my opportunity charging, end to my riding on pathways.
every pathway has warning on entrance - no motorized vehicles.
Click to expand...

Hello Miro, I am in Calgary too
Where abouts do you e-ride?
 
mostly SE ,
mostly 20-30km/day in summer.
Recently I went to Cochrane after years of planning and thinking about it.
Calgary has patchwork of pathways , 0.5kms here 1 km there a bit of here a bit of there which is terrible for planning any long distance trip.
I must have wasted 30 % of my battery Wattshours looking for pieces of pathways to finally reach A1 to Cochrane.
Well, riding Glenmore and next Crowchild from SE would be crazy.
 
Chalo said:
rumme said:
If we go back only 50 -80 years ago and look at our society, we still had work ethics and were in decent physical shape.
Click to expand...

And yet most were ignorant racist pieces of shit and died in their 60s and 70s. Draw your own conclusions.
Click to expand...


Spoiled? noooo,.... ARROGANT!!! Yup,... in every way imaginable.
And that arrogance dates back 50-80yrs or even MORE!! The very roots of all the bs we've seen since, regardless of how difficult that same arrogance has made our daily life!!! Heck, we (as a nation) can't even seem to adopt metrics as a national standard of measure, due to such arrogance! Even when bordering countries and others around the world adapted to such, American arrogance jus plain refused. For most of those 50-80yrs (or more), the ONLY car to own, was a big AMERICAN made car,.... till few were any longer available, so many arrogant folks jus got a big V-8 powered truck instead!!! WITH 4-DOORS!!! UGH!!!
"The roads were improved, built, and paved for BIG FAST AUTOMOBILES,.... not horses, bicycles, e-bikes, "little bitty cars" or anything else! Even in the crowded big cities,... got plenty of cabs, busses, subways, trains,.... "Don't need no bikes of ANY kind,... they jus get in the way!"

Oh and my favorite,... "If those other places had bigger, better streets for automobiles,...they wouldn't have a "bicycle problem"!!!" :shock:

Till we acknowledge the arrogance that keeps bicycles and e-bikes from becoming more mainstream here in the states,.... they jus won't!!! Heck, it's taken most of that 50-80yrs jus to acknowledge bicycling as a form of adult recreation, and not jus a child's toy!
 
miro13car said:
Still I am on weird looking bike with people giving me weird looks - what is this?
and I enjoy this way.
Imagine every third, every forth ride on bike path is electric!! Yeah i dont want that!
every pathway has warning on entrance - no motorized vehicles. I e-ride on pathways everyday, and Fish Creek Park - Though that does not stop me at all
Click to expand...
 
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