Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
Tangalle   100 mW

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Re: Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

Post by Tangalle » May 09 2019 6:17pm

amberwolf


the m-drive are mutch more cheaper. But now, i cant buy because everythings is a project. I dont have bike, trailer etc...furtheremore, i am travelling in colombia and i will be back to France in one month (cost ship will be a lot)

But i keep this m drive in my head.

Build my own.... sounds good. But I dont have too much knowledge. I need to follow and having very good tuto to create it.

I will check carefully the website https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html when I will be back.
waiting for more money. It would be hard, i am a homeless traveller. I dont have regular job. When i will back to france i will search for job. Not sure to find especially without car. /mylife


billvon


All the project is building around the idea about a minimal autonomy.

If i need to create a 12kw battery to have 80 miles autonomy, all my project sucks.

this forum speak a bit about that
https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/ma ... your-ebike

32 lbs Motobecane 29'er w/ 3" knobbies
12 lbs BBSHD Kit
12 Lbs 20Ah Panasonic PF Pack
280 lbs Rider ( yeah I know...)
------------
336 lbs rolling out the door

PAS 1,2 mostly , brief throttle max ocassionally ( < 20sec bursts)

19 -21 kWh / miles +/-


Are you really sure about my consumption. On my point of view, this is the most important part. Everythings is based on it.
I want at least 80 miles autonomy on normal road. flat with no wind. I like to see solar trip and they can drive a lot without charging, only by solar panel

:confused: :confused:

You have advice for one good battery, with a lot preference inside Europe shop :mrgreen:

Like I said I have nothing now. I want to buy a scorpion fs20 (second hand), create the caravan and after create the motor.
But before to start and spend my money, i have to be what I do and if it is a good idea.

--------------------

amberwolf : you say 120wh/miles

And the problem is I trust you

all my project sucks. I dont understand people on SUN TRIP do


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1LB0jPh7QQ

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Re: Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

Post by amberwolf » May 09 2019 7:27pm

Tangalle wrote:
May 09 2019 6:17pm
32 lbs Motobecane 29'er w/ 3" knobbies
12 lbs BBSHD Kit
12 Lbs 20Ah Panasonic PF Pack
280 lbs Rider ( yeah I know...)
------------
336 lbs rolling out the door

PAS 1,2 mostly , brief throttle max ocassionally ( < 20sec bursts)

19 -21 kWh / miles +/-
Unfortunatley it doesn't say anything about conditions the riding was done in, terrain, or speeds. So knowing the power usage is useless to compare with any other system, rider, situation, etc.

*And* it is a middrive, so assuming the rider is shifting gears properly, power usage will be less than with a DD, if it is anything like normal riding conditions, and not just a single acceleration at the start, and a single stop at the end.


Are you really sure about my consumption.
No.

The only way to know what that will be is by figuring out how aerodynamic your setup will be (not very, unless you design it to be), and then using that in calculations or simulators along with the other info, like speed, terrain, wind, etc., to estimate what actual consumption might be.

Since you're not using this for casual riding around, but for essential travel, you should determine the worst case power usages, along with the best, and the average, and then presume usage will be worse than that, and then you can be pleasantly surprised by the results, instead of being disappointed by assuming the best. ;)


I want at least 80 miles autonomy on normal road. flat with no wind.
If you had 2x 36v18Ah batteries, that's 2x 648Wh, or a total of 1296wh. To get 80 miles out of that, you must have a maximum average usage of 16.2wh/mile. That's certainly possible, but not with high speeds (with poor aero), or high power usage during climbs/headwinds/etc.


So...a guesstimate based on just a bicycle with poor aero (guesstimating 1.5cda) and 330lbs mass, the simulator says that with ah hSR348 hubmotor in a 26" wheel, and a 36v 25Ah battery, 40A controller, the best speed you could reach *at all* would be 27.1MPH, at full throttle on the flats with no winds. To do it, it would take 1400w battery power, 1100w motor power (the rest of that 300w is lost as heat in the system), at an efficiency of around 79%, along with 100w of pedalling power. It gives a range of only 15 miles, at 51.9 Wh/mi, but at least it doesn't overheat doing it, but it gets to 115°C, which is very hot (hotter than boiling water). I'd personally use a sensorless-fallback controller for that kind of situation, because that kind of heat could eventually cause problems with the hall sensors.

https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.h ... st_1_0.005


Now, if you don't use full throttle, and only go basic pedalling speeds you could sustain if you're healthy and used to doing it, say,around 10MPH with that kind of load, then you yourself would be providing almost all of the power necessary at 100W, and your range would be higher than you could go in a session anyway (it shows almost 1000miles), the motor would be doing almost nothing.

https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.h ... throt=28.4


If you step it up to 15MPH, still pedalling at 100w the whole time, then you get over 50 miles range, at around 15wh/mile usage.

https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.h ... throt=46.8


I like to see solar trip and they can drive a lot without charging, only by solar panel
AFAIK, they're also not going 40mph (which you said you'd like to be able to do).
--What is their average speed?
--On what kind of terrain?
--How aerodynamic are their bikes?
--How heavy are they?
--How much power do they actually get from their panels (not how many watts the panels are rated)?
--How big are their batteries?
--How big are their motors/controllers (max current used from battery, at what voltage)?
--What's their actual Wh/mile usage, under those conditions?


If you're interested, there are threads, like Justin_LE's, about specific SunTrip bikes and voyages, with lots of specific data, that may help.




Just to give you an idea aobut power usage vs size of bike:

My CrazyBike2, which was a lot like my SB Cruiser trike, but at least 100lbs less, and 2 wheels instead of three, generaly took less than half (closer to 1/3) the power usage that SB Cruiser does. Part of that is the weight, but much of it is the aerodynamics, as SBC is more or less a big box on wheels with a sunshade canopy, and CrazyBike2 was narrower, just a bit more aero (not a lot). The slower I go, the less of a difference there is in the two (showing that it is poor aerodynamics causing much of the usage). And the longer the trip is with less stops/starts, the less CB2 used, vs the same trip on SBC, showing that weight is still a part of it.

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Re: Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

Post by Tangalle » May 10 2019 8:45am

Priceless post amberwolf


Just the link for the sun trip is missing but thank you a lot.

My setup will be a trike. A scorpion fs20 (20" wheels) with a solar panel roof. Something like 300w I think.

My caravane will have also 300w.

I will not be 100% autonomous, but I hope I will charge up my battery when the days are shining.

I have to leave few days, 10 days. Maybe I will quite busy (go back to France) or without internet (go camping in mountains).

I want to find a way to do stroque monkey or m-drive for cheaper. Or if the second hand m drive motor are still free, I can buy it, depends the shipping cost.
Or find tutorial to create mine step by step :)

Keep the gear are really useful.
I will search on this way

I will try to do my best for the weight and the aero (low roof).

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

Post by dogman dan » May 10 2019 11:59am

You are just like me, you want it all. Sorry, its not going to happen.

But again, your best bet is a very large direct drive motor in 20" wheel. It will be inefficient when you go very slow up a steep gravel road. But if it is big, it can stand running less efficient longer before it melts. This will be very important in Mongolia. The 20 inch wheel, and giving it 2000w, will be a very good tractor. magic pie, or any similar size motor will melt pretty easy with the load you plan on carrying.


It will not be inefficient, if the gravel road is flat. Go slow as you want, with great efficiency when its flat. Its only when overloaded up hills that the motor gets inefficient. Big motor, it won't ever get overloaded when its not steep.

You can't have it all, You will have to be careful how slow you run up a very very steep gravel road. But you can get enough power to that motor to go up 10% grades faster, even weighing 500 pounds. It will run fast enough to be moderately efficient, and low risk of over heat. If you do get too hot, stop for an hour, or two. Maybe you unload the trailer, and backpack up that one steep hill. Then go back for the bike and empty trailer. Whatever it takes.

But most of the trip, you will do just fine with a very large hubmotor in a 20 inch wheel. Or similar size tire outside diameter moped tire and rim, is actually what you need for Mongolia. This is exactly what Amberwolf is running on his trike. Heavier moped rims that are about the same as 20" bike tires.


You are correct I think, about a mid drive not being reliable enough. I did not know you meant to ride in places so remote. I just imagined you wanted to tour Austria, maybe into Prague, that sort of thing where you could just get replacement stuff. For the real wild, you will need to carry extra stuff, extra controller, extra hall sensors for the motor, bearings, and of course lots of tires and tubes. Extra battery charger too.


On to the battery.. What I meant by RC lipo, is lithium cobalt pouch cells. Best source a place called hobby king. They are the only thing that can realistically get you into one hour charge of a large battery. Others will not handle such a fast charge. A 48v 20 ah lipo pack would be 1000 watt hours. So you would need a 1000w charger to get that full in an hour. Yes, this would be a very big charger. I have a huge, heavy 10 amps 60v charger. It would take nearly two hours to fill that 1000 wh pack. So what Im saying is this, you can have a small lipo pack, 48v 10 ah, and charge it in an hour, if you carry a huge charger. 18650's are best limited to a bit slower charge rates, and 4 hours to charge a 1000wh pack is typical, using a 250w charger. But you can carry two of the smaller 250w (5 amps) chargers, for both reliability, and 500w total charging rate. Then you can charge two 1000wh 18650 packs in 4 hours. Or two 600 wh packs in about 3 hours.. Thats reality, sorry it does not fit your dream. But 18650 packs should be cheap enough to buy two 10 or 12 ah packs, and two chargers going at once fill them in 3 hours or so.


RC lipo is generally the cheapest you can find per wh, and they can stand faster charging if that is really so important to you. But RC lipo is fussy, and a bit dangerous to use. I know money is important, but a waterproof battery would be a good thing out on tour. Look at Luna Cycle, and their wolf battery. Its completely sealed, and nearly waterproof. But not dirt cheap like a duct tape wrapped battery from ali express.


I ran into the same problems when I planned my touring electric bike. I needed the big motor. I had to plan on sitting 3 hours waiting to charge, or more. But you can do a lot of riding on 2000 wh, even without solar. Ride 3 hours in the morning, charge at a lunch stop, ride 3 more hours in the afternoon can work. Plus you will be getting some solar help too. 500 wh a day or so, more in sunny summer days. 2500 watt hours can take you 100 miles. That's one charge per day, plus the solar, and of course, lots of pedaling from you. 15 mph travel speed.


The solar. yes, you really should use some kind of voltage converter. They can be pretty cheap. But once your batteries are quite empty, then there will be no problem with overcharging. But if you are parked, and the battery nearly full already, you need it to remain below the max voltage of your battery. So say you charge to 58v,, you want your solar panels to put out 57v max. Soon as you start to ride, your battery will drop to 56v or less, and your solar panel will start to charge the battery. That way you can keep it safe. But you also need the voltage to stay at 57v to get it to flow into the battery.. If it gets cloudy, your panels put out 45v, its never going to charge your battery now. You need it to boost up to 57v when the panels put out lower voltage too.
Depending on what panels you buy, and what voltage they put out, you might need to always lower the voltage they send to your battery, or raise it. One good option would be 4 panels that each put out 24v. Each pair connect in series, for a "48v" output. But in full sun, each panel puts out about 30v or more. So 60v or 70v, and then you need a converter to make sure it stays at 57v only.

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Re: Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

Post by billvon » May 10 2019 12:06pm

Tangalle wrote:
May 09 2019 6:17pm
All the project is building around the idea about a minimal autonomy.
It sounds like you want autonomy for very little money, which is the problem.
If i need to create a 12kw battery to have 80 miles autonomy, all my project sucks.
So go slower.
Are you really sure about my consumption.
Definitely not. I have no idea how draggy your setup will be. Again, you can get any range you want by just slowing down. At 8mph your range will probably be infinite, since you can pedal at that speed. At 30mph it will probably be very short. The more aerodynamic your rig is the faster you will be able to go for a given consumption.
I want at least 80 miles autonomy on normal road. flat with no wind. I like to see solar trip and they can drive a lot without charging, only by solar panel
Then assume a very low speed.
--bill von

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

Post by dogman dan » May 10 2019 12:23pm

Trike towing a trailer, should go 80 miles on about 2000 wh. 25 watt hours per mile was my magic number. I had to go a slow as it took, to stay at that number. No plugs for 70 miles out in the western USA. So I rode slow, and pedaled steady. Carrying more than 2000wh was too expensive to buy, and too heavy to carry for me. So I HAD to ride using 25 wh/mi on average. I'd pull 60wh/mi up a mountain for 10 miles, then ten miles down at 0 wh/mi. Net 30 wh/mi. So once down the mountain, Id have to pedal hard to make up 5 wh/mi on my average.


I was riding this, my touring monster bike. I took it out touring twice, about 300 miles each time. Later I made a better bike, that was built specifically for towing a huge trailer with solar panels. Never finished that idea though.
P2130006.JPG

Just reality man,,, which brings you to.... get a motorcycle to ride across mongolia.

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Re: Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

Post by amberwolf » May 10 2019 10:44pm

Tangalle wrote:
May 10 2019 8:45am
My setup will be a trike. A scorpion fs20 (20" wheels) with a solar panel roof. Something like 300w I think.

My caravane will have also 300w.
Is that 300w *output* from the system itself, after conversions, etc., or is that the raw spec for the panels? Because you won't get the full output of the panels, depending on converter, load, weather (hotter = less output, cloudy = less output, shade from trees/etc = less output, angle of panels to sun less than perpendicular = less output, etc.).

I just want you to know what challenges you will face ahead of time, and not be surprised by this stuff and end up stuck somewhere longer than you want to be because of it. ;)

Also note the panels themselves, and the roof/canopy, will add drag, that will become more and more significant as you go faster.

I want to find a way to do stroque monkey or m-drive for cheaper. Or if the second hand m drive motor are still free, I can buy it, depends the shipping cost.
Or find tutorial to create mine step by step :)
I don't know of any tutorials. The best I could suggest would be to partner up with someone mechanically inclined with the right tools, and show them the existing stuff, like the pictures in that thread, or of various such setups on the internet.

I totally understand budget; most of the stuff on my builds is recycled from somebody else's junk. Some of it free, some of it cheap. *Very* few things were bought new, stuff like tires, tubes, brake pads, soemtimes brakes, sometimes spokes or rims--things that I eitehr couldn't get used or weren't safe to use in the condition I did get them in.

The only thing I knew about bikes when I started this, over a decade ago, was how to ride them and change tires, maybe adjust a few things crudely, etc. Now I can build a bike "from scratch", including frames, wheels, etc., but I still don't know everything. :oops: :lol:

So...you can learn, too, and I highly recommend learning enough to fix anything on your setup with just the bits you have on hand, (and I'd carry spares for anything you can't actually fix) cuz stuff is gonna go wrong roadside, at the worst possible time, in the worst possible place, with no one and nothing to help you. :(

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Re: Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

Post by dogman dan » May 11 2019 7:23am

300w is a lot of panel in area. It can be done to carry a lot of panel area, but it gets more and more expensive, AND, it gets very hard to ride into any wind if you put a huge roof on your trike.

My idea was to make my trailer 8 foot long, and 30 inches wide, and a foot or less deep. It could possibly be converted into a bed, with a half roof by tilting the lid.

Again, I never completed the project, cost of the panels at that time. I was going to be able to carry 4 ,50w 12v panels, which would get me 200w of panel total. But this was only 50w of 48v. Either way, 200w of 12v, or 50w of 48v, the result in watt hours is the same, 240 watt hours, per hour. But much less for a lot of the day, because of sun angles not always ideal, and also clouds. I figured on 4-6 hours of 200w for the days gain. So a poor day, 500wh, a good one, 1000 wh.

But that is not so bad, refer to what I was draining from my battery to get 25 wh/mi. I would average about 300w from battery, and 100 more from pedaling. So if I can gain 200 more watts for about 4 hours around noon, that is a lot of distance. The wind drag of the big trailer was large though, so I was never going to hit 25 wh/mi with it. 35 wh/mi possible at 15 mph.


If relying on such a solar setup to fully charge a 2000 wh battery, you are looking at two days sitting charging to fill it. Or, ride 25 miles a day, till you get to a plug.

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Re: Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

Post by amberwolf » May 11 2019 2:11pm

dogman dan wrote:
May 11 2019 7:23am
I was going to be able to carry 4 ,50w 12v panels, which would get me 200w of panel total. But this was only 50w of 48v. Either way, 200w of 12v, or 50w of 48v, the result in watt hours is the same, 240 watt hours, per hour.
The watts is the same, regardless of whether you series or parallel the panels.

4.17A at 12v (50w) for one panel is 17.36A at 12v (200w) for four in parallel, which is the same as 4.17A at 48v (200w) for four in series.

Power (w) = Current (A) * Voltage (V). ;)



Also...AFAICT, that would actually be 200W per hour, so 200Wh (not 240), assuming "perfect" conditions (whatever the panels were specified for to give the 50w output). Assuming 48v average voltage...it'll be lower under more load, and higher under less load, but the watts would probably be the same if you use an MPPT or similar. Without anything to control the load I don't know what the output would be.

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Re: Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

Post by Tangalle » May 12 2019 11:15am

Thank you everyone. Very interesting.

Yet, a huge direct drive motor can make sens. It's looks like the only affordable way.
Also because I am not a ingenieur, or technician. I don't know someone with good skill (in fact yes, but he works already 80hours / weeks as a farmer).
So basically I want to do it by myself.

With a 20" wheel, maybe I can remove the steel between the center of the wheel and the external part of the wheel. Sorry I don't know the English.

For the battery, I am still processing.

I will have quite a huge solar system. For a bike.

Around : 4 meters long to 1 meter wide. I don't try to calculate how much I will have with it. Depends of too many stuff.

I want electricity plug as a security. I would like to do without nuclear (I am french). But having a huge huge charger ... Hummus, I am not exited. I will be heavy enough.

But to balance the weight in the caravan trailer, I want 2 battery, 2 mppt, 2 charger. One system for the trike solar panel and the another one for the caravan.

Thank you :)

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Re: Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

Post by markz » May 12 2019 12:39pm

Interesting

----

Side Note Alternative
I must say every time I see one of these types of setups, my mind goes to a gasser setup, which many people on E.S. cringe at but I feel as though a mini gasser setup would negate worry of range anxiety. Even if there was such a thing as a generator using a 30cc motor, I do remember seeing 500W generators. Ah I see one, even sold at Waltons mansion - https://www.walmart.com/ip/Powerhouse-P ... r/24403900
8.00 x 14.00 x 12.00 Inches, 22lbs

Bigger, Heavier, Louder 1000W
https://powerequipment.honda.com/genera ... ls/eu1000i
50cc, 29lbs (dry), 7.1 hrs on 0.6 gal of gas, 120V 1000W max. (8.3A) 900W rated (7.5A) , 12VDC @ 96W (8A), 3.2 hr @ rated load, 7.1 hrs @ 1/4 load , 17.7" x 9.4" x 15.0" , 50 dB(A) @ rated load 42 dB(A) @ 1/4 load,

Tangalle wrote:
May 12 2019 11:15am
I want electricity plug as a security. I would like to do without nuclear (I am french). But having a huge huge charger ...

I want 2 battery, 2 mppt, 2 charger. One system for the trike solar panel and the another one for the caravan.

Thank you :)

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Re: Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

Post by billvon » May 12 2019 1:19pm

Tangalle wrote:
May 12 2019 11:15am
So basically I want to do it by myself.
You can do that. But without any technical expertise, you are going to have to either get some very good friends (and perhaps ply them with dinner and drinks occasionally) or spend a lot for pre-packaged systems. There's only so much you can learn over the net, and learning that way (plus gaining experience by yourself) is a time consuming process.
With a 20" wheel, maybe I can remove the steel between the center of the wheel and the external part of the wheel.
Or you can buy them that way, or have them laced. The M3548 will give you 1500 watts easily with Statorade and can be laced into a 20" wheel.
I want electricity plug as a security. I would like to do without nuclear (I am french). But having a huge huge charger ... Hummus, I am not exited. I will be heavy enough.
Fortunately you don't need a heavy charger. If you have a 36V battery you can use a modified Meanwell charger like the MSP600-48. That gives you 600 watts of charging for 1.5kg.
But to balance the weight in the caravan trailer, I want 2 battery, 2 mppt, 2 charger. One system for the trike solar panel and the another one for the caravan.
You will save money by having one system and one battery.
--bill von

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

Post by dogman dan » May 13 2019 7:18am

I always need a math check, but that was what I meant to say. I think I was taking 58v x4 to get 240w.

1 200w panel at 12v is same as 4 50w panels connected in series to make 48v. Both put out the same 200w.


On a bright day at noon in the desert, I would not be surprised if I got 240w for an hour or two. My 12v panels each put out 50w, at 18v when its bright enough.


Main thing I wanted to say was, 2 feet by 8 feet of panel can be carried on a bike and trailer, and will put out enough power to be worth it, even if 200w per hour sounds low. Its just like having a smaller charger going all day while you ride. Easily double your range if you carry 200w of panels.


You can easily make a connection, so that one system connects panels on both the trailer, and the bike. Same with batteries. Quite possible to connect them so they all charge together, wherever you carry them. Some details have to be done right, but its not hard.

The bigger motors don't generally come in one piece rims , they lace up radial spokes, that are very short. Spoke and rim also means you could carry spare spokes, and get a rim if you need it. Bend a mag wheel, that's it, finished.

Just look for a good deal on a motor with magnets that are more than 28 mm wide. The Muxus is popular, and usually affordable. But the biggest 5000w motors have to have wider than normal frames. The larger crystalyte motors can handle 3000w easy, and fit normal 135 mm frames.

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Re: Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

Post by Tangalle » May 16 2019 9:26pm

So you think the mexus 3000w is a good one?

To be efficient at low speed in gravel road and quite speedy in good road, should I move the voltage to 48v to 72v? It's have to fit with the solar panel setting too.

Furthermore, I am thinking to lipo battery to charge speeder.


I want with a 1300wh battery where I can charge everywhere on the road. Or asking people, or restaurant etc...

Solar panel is also here to charge up the battery where I stay 2 3 days in same place.
And charge my laptop too.


___


Having two system (two battery, 2 chargeur etc) is also to balance the weight of it inside my caravan trailer. One on eatch side.


___

Lithium makes sense for everyone. But to charge very quickly, lipo are good for that.
It will be my next big topic after the choice of the motor.

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Re: Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

Post by Tangalle » May 16 2019 9:26pm

Ps : no petrol ;)

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Re: Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

Post by Tangalle » May 16 2019 11:55pm

Can I charge quickly a lifepo4 battery?

https://www.ev-power.eu/CALB-40Ah-400Ah/

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Re: Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

Post by Tangalle » May 17 2019 8:05am

So :

Mxus 3kw with low "building" with a very hight tension (72v) could be the best for me?

And the easiest.

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Re: Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

Post by dogman dan » May 17 2019 8:39am

You still want it all. You cant' have it.

Yes, you can get speed with 72v instead of 48v. But you can't ride that thing 40 mph towing a huge trailer. You'll wreck. So you DONT WANT that speed. Wrecking in Mongolia will really f--c up your trip.

And anyway, you'll blow all your battery capacity in 30 min running that fast. Then you get to sit for three days getting it all recharged by solar only.

This is because YOU WONT be charging anthing that fast, on the size solar panel you can carry. And, you wont find plugs that can charge any faster than 800w or so. 10 amps charger, will not pop most plugs you find. 500w at 48v. That is going to be close to your max charge rate. The ideal setup would be two batteries and two satiators from Grin. But some plugs may fail trying to run two. Satiators can run at any wattage you choose, so you can turn them down to be sure they don't blow a 15 amps plug, with something already on the circuit that pulls 8 amps. ( like a coke machine) You will NEVER find a plug with nothing else running on it. All circuits have multiple plugs and lights running off it. See all those outdoor lights on that store, they are on the same circuit as that outdoor plug. Likely you have at most, 500w of power you can actually use on that plug. They guy inside that store is not going to be happy if you plug in, and blow his circuits. Especially if his computer is on that circuit!!


Build a decent 48v setup, with 3000w motor, and 48v 40 amps controller. ( 2000w) This will get you over mountains, and go up to 30 mph on the flat. Its all you NEED. Its also going to look close to legal, ( hidden throttle) when you are in western europe. A 72v bike will go so fast it will be an instant ticket, and maybe confiscation, in parts of Europe.


Its enough, 2000w and 30 mph. But use the big 3000w motor, so it can climb those hills without danger of overheating. The way you will need to ride is 15-20 mph. To save power. To have that autonomy, you need to sip power when you can. So you will ride 15-20 mph on the flat, saving your battery so that you can get over a mountain at 15 mph, the efficient minimum speed. You will be using 300w on the flat, and 1500 to 2000 going up a mountain.



Sometimes you will not be towing the trailer, and will have a plug. Then, with the bike lightened up, 30 mph and 2000w will still be VERY FUN. Get a touring motorcycle if you want more than that.


Also, include regen braking, so you can recover a tiny % of your power back, going down a mountain, or just stopping. On a very long tour, even 1% back can help, and it definitely helps brake pads last. Put the regen brake on a pushbutton, so you can use regen, regen and regular brakes, or just regular brakes any time you choose.

40 ah of 48v lifepo4, is just about the maximum size you could possibly carry. ( 2000 wh) But it will be twice as heavy as anything else you could choose. It can charge at 5 amps, of 48v. Faster will make it wear out faster. But two 48v lifepo4 packs is possible, and each one could charge with a 5 amps charger. Pingbattery.com is a good place to get lifepo4. But it will be heavy!! Charge time on two 5 amps chargers would be about 5 hours. two 250w chargers, 500w, 4 hours would be 2000 wh. But charging slows at the end, so 5 hours to fill. You could fill 80% in just over 3 hours though.

Tangalle   100 mW

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Re: Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

Post by Tangalle » May 17 2019 9:58am

:bigthumb:

I will reply as far as my knowledge can.

Yes, you can get speed with 72v instead of 48v. But you can't ride that thing 40 mph towing a huge trailer. You'll wreck. So you DONT WANT that speed. Wrecking in Mongolia will really f--c up your trip.

The speed is not a must to. Riding at 30mph max is good enough. What I want is the possibility the tract easy when in kind of no road deep in Mongolia climbing a mountain. With electric efficiency and without overwarm the motor.

And anyway, you'll blow all your battery capacity in 30 min running that fast. Then you get to sit for three days getting it all recharged by solar only.

True. And autonomy is matter. That's why I would like to know if I can definine on a controller for exemple i want to use only 25w/mile. And undo it when i have a special challenging time.

This is because YOU WONT be charging anthing that fast, on the size solar panel you can carry. And, you wont find plugs that can charge any faster than 800w or so.

I know people who charge a123 battery with 1800w charger.
Two problem : lifepo4 are heavier than lithium ion. The weight of the charger himself.


10 amps charger, will not pop most plugs you find. 500w at 48v. That is going to be close to your max charge rate.

In camping, when you pay for electricity, in France, it is limited to 10A on 220v. I would like to find a charger who take the edge of the limitation




Build a decent 48v setup, with 3000w motor, and 48v 40 amps controller. ( 2000w) This will get you over mountains, and go up to 30 mph on the flat. Its all you NEED. Its also going to look close to legal, ( hidden throttle) when you are in western europe. A 72v bike will go so fast it will be an instant ticket, and maybe confiscation, in parts of Europe.

Also, a 72v system could permet to downsize the cable.
I don't want to go super fast. It's also about how you create your nxus motor no? If I ask for max torque and low speed. Something like 30mph max.

Its enough, 2000w and 30 mph. But use the big 3000w motor, so it can climb those hills without danger of overheating. The way you will need to ride is 15-20 mph. To save power. To have that autonomy, you need to sip power when you can. So you will ride 15-20 mph on the flat, saving your battery so that you can get over a mountain at 15 mph, the efficient minimum speed. You will be using 300w on the flat, and 1500 to 2000 going up a mountain.


Exactly what I want. Using 300w most of time by electronic limitation. And remove it when I want.


Sometimes you will not be towing the trailer, and will have a plug. Then, with the bike lightened up, 30 mph and 2000w will still be VERY FUN. Get a touring motorcycle if you want more than that.

I will live literally on my bike. No home, nowhere to parc m'y trailer. Normally I will have all the time my home with me ;)

Also, include regen braking, so you can recover a tiny % of your power back, going down a mountain, or just stopping. On a very long tour, even 1% back can help, and it definitely helps brake pads last. Put the regen brake on a pushbutton, so you can use regen, regen and regular brakes, or just regular brakes any time you choose.

Regen will be on the party. ;)

40 ah of 48v lifepo4, is just about the maximum size you could possibly carry. ( 2000 wh) But it will be twice as heavy as anything else you could choose. It can charge at 5 amps, of 48v. Faster will make it wear out faster. But two 48v lifepo4 packs is possible, and each one could charge with a 5 amps charger. Pingbattery.com is a good place to get lifepo4. But it will be heavy!! Charge time on two 5 amps chargers would be about 5 hours. two 250w chargers, 500w, 4 hours would be 2000 wh. But charging slows at the end, so 5 hours to fill. You could fill 80% in just over 3 hours though.

48v is not sure for me. You already read it. 72v system can be useful if I choose a very hight torque motor. Furthermore, it's not because I will have 72v motor i will eat more watt. And help to downsize cable.

But I saw you can charge much more faster some lifepo4.
I don't have the link with me. I will research it.

I need to find a way to charge faster. I have to.

Tangalle   100 mW

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Re: Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

Post by Tangalle » May 17 2019 10:02am

https://www.pingbattery.com/72v-20ah-v5 ... ery-packs/

Charging Current: <15 Amps

No?

I need to find a Europe dealer. If not, I will have a big tax charge.

billvon   100 MW

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Re: Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

Post by billvon » May 17 2019 11:06am

Tangalle wrote:
May 17 2019 9:58am
In camping, when you pay for electricity, in France, it is limited to 10A on 220v. I would like to find a charger who take the edge of the limitation
Meanwell supplies make that pretty easy. 3x 600W supplies would get you 1800 watts of charging - IF your battery can handle it.
I will live literally on my bike. No home, nowhere to parc m'y trailer. Normally I will have all the time my home with me ;)
You won't always have the trailer.
48v is not sure for me. You already read it. 72v system can be useful if I choose a very hight torque motor. Furthermore, it's not because I will have 72v motor i will eat more watt.
The more power you have, the more power you will use.
But I saw you can charge much more faster some lifepo4.
At the cost of range. I'd recommend going to a larger lithium ion battery instead. The larger the battery, the more power it will accept during charge.
--bill von

Tangalle   100 mW

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Re: Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

Post by Tangalle » May 17 2019 2:37pm

3x 600W supplies would get you 1800 watts of charging
What do you mean by supplies in this sentence?

The more power you have, the more power you will use.

Can we limit the power by the controller or something else?

Tangalle   100 mW

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Re: Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

Post by Tangalle » May 17 2019 2:45pm

I'd recommend going to a larger lithium ion battery instead. The larger the battery, the more power it will accept during charge

The thing is : I want to charge 1300wh in 60 90 minutes.
Lifepo4 I love them because they have long live cycle. Better for earth too.
But they are frocking heavy.

Limit the size of the battery to charge quicker?
Have 2 3 charger? But the weight too.
Find good lithium ion with fast charge?

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wturber   10 MW

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Re: Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

Post by wturber » May 17 2019 4:22pm

Tangalle wrote:
May 17 2019 2:37pm
3x 600W supplies would get you 1800 watts of charging
What do you mean by supplies in this sentence?

The more power you have, the more power you will use.

Can we limit the power by the controller or something else?
Yes. But anything that you limit can be overridden and most people will be temped and will end up over-riding the limits that they previously set. So the question is how disciplined you will be.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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wturber   10 MW

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Re: Help me to create my solar panel trike with caravan trailer

Post by wturber » May 17 2019 4:23pm

wturber wrote:
May 17 2019 4:22pm
Tangalle wrote:
May 17 2019 2:37pm
3x 600W supplies would get you 1800 watts of charging
What do you mean by supplies in this sentence?

The more power you have, the more power you will use.

Can we limit the power by the controller or something else?
Yes. But anything that you limit can be overridden and most people will be temped and will end up over-riding the limits that they previously set. So the question is how disciplined will you be?
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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