E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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hkj   10 W

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by hkj » Oct 19 2020 2:47am

Cowardlyduck wrote:
Oct 18 2020 5:48am
About 7 years ago I first discovered this spot on my Fighter.
Photo0395 (Small).jpg
Revisited it today on my LMX64, which rides so much better!

It's developed a creaking sound though which I couldn't quite pinpoint, but only exists when the motor is turning. I recall this being an issue previously for others. Was it the front belt sprocket?

Cheers
Hello CD,

I had an issue with some noises coming from the crank area (hard to pinpoint). What I could notice was that the front sprocket was slightly loose. The key had come out a bit. I tightened the front sprocket and that made it silent for some time but came back after some time slightly less loud though. I also tightened the bolt for the rear swing arm.

I still believe something has gotten inside the crank area or something is loose inside the motor housing since I can hear it when pedaling with the motor on. No motor on does not produce it and riding only throttle does not as loudly produce it. I don't have the socket needed in order to loosen the pedal/crank assembly so I don't know how it looks inside. Might be worth a look though.

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Cowardlyduck » Oct 19 2020 6:14am

Thanks for the reply's.

I'm not sure if I got it, but I did find my belt tensioner was making that annoying squeaking sound again. I put some PTFE on it which seems to have quietened it down for now.

I also checked my front sprocket and it seems very tight still. Didn't want to take it off. So hopefully it was just the tensioner which is still getting a lot of belt dust accumulating on it. Should it eventually 'wear in'?

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hkj   10 W

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by hkj » Oct 19 2020 7:35am

Yeah sorry for a vague description but that's all I've managed so far. I've just cleaned my belt very lightly with water. Do you apply ptfe grease or do you spray it?

The noise is was having was linked to the revolutions I did while pedaling. Like something was touching on each revolution.

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by ringring » Oct 19 2020 11:10am

iacei wrote:
Oct 17 2020 11:40am
ringring wrote:
Oct 16 2020 9:56am
Hi,
maybe yes:
1. disassemble the electric motor - there will be a lot of space
2. permanently install the battery
3. mount the electric motor
After looking again and making a new cardboard mockup, I think that even with the motor out it would be impossible to slide the battery in.

Next step: trying the Electroride one.
If ElectroRide also fails in one block, the scrambler says two battery blocks connected in series. This may be the only solution.

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by ringring » Oct 19 2020 11:26am

Cowardlyduck wrote:
Oct 19 2020 6:14am
Thanks for the reply's.

I'm not sure if I got it, but I did find my belt tensioner was making that annoying squeaking sound again. I put some PTFE on it which seems to have quietened it down for now.

I also checked my front sprocket and it seems very tight still. Didn't want to take it off. So hopefully it was just the tensioner which is still getting a lot of belt dust accumulating on it. Should it eventually 'wear in'?

Cheers
I have a belt driven motorcycle, I don't use ptfe. I use TECHNICAL TALC FOR TIRES AND INNER TUBES for a washed, dry belt.

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scrambler   1 kW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by scrambler » Oct 19 2020 1:34pm

Quick question for LMX64 users here about speed on a flat street.

On throttle only, how fast can the bike go
On Pedal assist only (max level), how fast can you pedal the bike?

Thank you

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by iacei » Oct 20 2020 1:21am

50km/h on a stock LMX64T - 45km/h on a LMX64H

on pedal assist only.....a bit less because you cannot keep up with the stock chainring (but it really depends on the way your PAS is set up)

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by scrambler » Oct 20 2020 11:02am

Thanks, appreciated.

Do you know if on the LMX 64H you can switch it to unrestricted mode when you are Off road, or is the limitation permanent.
And do you know if the limitation on the H is only speed or also power?

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by scrambler » Oct 20 2020 7:04pm

So here are the preliminary findings regarding the possibility of adapting a Kindernay IGH to the LMX 64.

After getting more info from Kindernay on their current hub dimensions and future product, as well as more data on LMX dimensions from the kind people on the forum, it seems adapting a Kindernay hub may actually be reasonably easy.
Below are the details of my investigation, feel free to point obvious flaws I may have overlooked :)

Kindernay info:
https://kindernay.com/gallery/
• Currently they have a short and a long version of the hub
• They have three different shifter width and three different left cap width, allowing them to create three dropout sizes with the short hub (138 / 142 / 148), and two for the long versions ( 190 / 197)

Image

• The long hub is the same as the short one, except for an extension of the sprocket and shifter axis on the right side, changing the chainline from 48.5mm for the short versions (135/142/148) to 76mm for the long ones (190/197).
• The way they keep the wheel centered over these, is by having two different wheel mounting cage sizes across the whole assembly.
• There is a 170mm version of the Hub in the work, with a potential 66mm Chainline
LMX info gathered (to be eventually precisely measured or confirmed with LMX):
• 5mm between left dropout and disk outface
• 16mm between disk inface and sprocket inner ring outface
• Motor sprocket outer ring offset from inner ring (estimated around 4mm)
• Motor chainline of 57.5mm (not sure if chain or belt)
• Pedaling chainline from LMX SEMPU BB spec 65mm (also measured at 70mm)
• Dropout of 170mm

Using Kindernay future 170mm hub.
That hub does not exist yet, but based on the current ones and info gathered with Kindernay, I extrapolated its dimensions below

Image

Based on that, it appears that a fairly simple adapter could be made to receive the disk and the Motor rear sprocket (chain or belt), if we lose the Motor sprocket freewheel.
• A single small adapter holding sprocket and disk, 7 screws going through disk, adapter, Hub and into the Cage
• Motor sprocket mounted on the outer part of that adapter using existing sprocket holes pattern.
• Cut the torque plate to a circle fitting in the adapter inside diameter (about 84mm) with two holes for two torque screws possibly going into the left dropout recess (if that does not compromise it).
• A possible modified left side cap to complete the dropout width and with holes to support the Torque screws going through.

Image

Note 1: A version of the adapter supporting a motor sprocket Freewheel could be envisioned, if a freewheel bearing existed in a large inside diameter (like 120mm or so) which I am not sure they do. If such a bearing freewheel existed, it would also require machining a new Sprocket

Note 2: Using the Kindernay short hub, we could shift the hub to the right and have a longer space on the left where an adapter supporting the freewheel would only require one with a 60mm internal diameter or so, which may exist.
But that would be significantly more labor intensive, requiring an extension of the torque arm, a more complex adapter with probably some bearing support over the torque arm extension. I have some principle drafted, but would need to know more about the type of freewheel required.

Questions regarding the loss of Motor Freewheel:
• Apart for some drag if pedaling on a dead battery or on PAS zero, as well as going downhill without the motor, is there more drawbacks or potential issue from losing the motor rear sprocket freewheel?
• How bad would that drag be?
• Could that possibly allow regen to be implemented?

Below some 3D views of the various pieces
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Folder link:
https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21A ... 230430EFDD

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by iacei » Oct 21 2020 1:40pm

Some additional infos for the Battery project.

As you can see the Electroride 14s7P Battery is way smaller than the EM3EV 14s7P but still IMHO it would not slide in even with the motor off.
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briangv99   100 W

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by briangv99 » Oct 21 2020 4:59pm

Hey Scrambler, beautiful CAD modelling on the Kindernay hub, but rationally, no matter how much you dislike derailleurs, you've got to consider that you would be adding a lot of unsprung weight compared to what is already a heavy-ish LMX hub and those Kindernay hub are some serious coin.

If the motor power was driving through the hub it might be worth considering, but the down sides of a derailleur are easy enough to live with given that the power isn't running through the pedal drive. The pedal drive is going to last much better than even a pedal only bike,

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by scrambler » Oct 21 2020 8:39pm

That is why in my dreams I would like LMX to incorporate a Pinion C1.9XR in the frame and find a solution to retain torque sensing capabilities.

Dreams aside, it really comes down to personal preference and bike usage.
I totally understand that for hardcore traditional MTB people this is not a priority.
For me who is not and want a bike that will be used both on the streets and on Leisure trails, it is a must, and the little extra weight is well worth the convenience of an IGH.

To each their own :)

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by TorEddy » Oct 22 2020 1:48am

Nice engineering Scrambler..

This will be a costly rear wheel for sure, but it would be nice to get rid of the casette and derailleur if possible.
A lower amount of gears with the same 30ish gear range , is awesome for an ebike. And the ability to shift while stand still.. :mrgreen:
One would still need a chain tensioner though, and the shifter requires two hydraulic cables running to each side of your handlebar.
That is a downer when using internal cabeling. And shifters on each side of the handlebar can easily conflict with throttle or dropper post lever. I spoke to Kindernay about using an electric shiter like sram axs, but sadly thats way into the future..

If one could manage using the Kindernay igh on a LMX64 with only an adapter ring, that would be great!
My 3rd Ride - LMX64 : :mrgreen:
My 2nd Ride - BBSHD NS Bikes : viewtopic.php?f=28&t=73264&p=1106366#p1106366
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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by bzhwindtalker » Oct 22 2020 9:05am

For the batteries, keep in mind the L frame has a lot more room.
I suspect the bigger Reention case could fit. The bigger case is 13S6P.
For the M frame I dont think it would fit.
It has been hard to get hold of one of those with a quality battery inside for testing, and EM3EV did not make their version yet.

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by iacei » Oct 22 2020 12:54pm

Indeed I have a M frame.

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scrambler   1 kW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by scrambler » Oct 22 2020 12:56pm

TorEddy wrote:
Oct 22 2020 1:48am
... the shifter requires two hydraulic cables running to each side of your handlebar.
That is a downer when using internal cabeling. And shifters on each side of the handlebar can easily conflict with throttle or dropper post lever. I spoke to Kindernay about using an electric shiter like sram axs, but sadly thats way into the future..
Glad you like it :)

Kindernay are coming with a single shifter next year, I understand it is in testing.

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by scrambler » Oct 22 2020 1:00pm

iacei wrote:
Oct 21 2020 1:40pm
Some additional infos for the Battery project.

As you can see the Electroride 14s7P Battery is way smaller than the EM3EV 14s7P but still IMHO it would not slide in even with the motor off.
Have you also looked into the triangle battery packs, if you can find a thin one, you may have more luck with that format.

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by scrambler » Oct 23 2020 5:29pm

Incorporating a Pinion C1.9XR in the LMX Frame

I initially thought this would be major, but decided to have a look anyway :)

Of course my model of the Frame is approximate as it is deducted from a series of pictures, and I do not know the details of the swing arm and motor to validate interference down there. But using a 3D model of the gearbox, it actually looks like the gearbox fits inside the two frame plates, which means we could attach it by running long screws and spacers across both plates.

If that does not interfere with any of the motor and swing arm (which I don’t have any info to model), it would mean only cutting a part of the bottom left side, welding some extension plates at the bottom and on the right side to receive the mounting holes, and probably reinforcing the frame by welding a junction plate between the two sides and above the gearbox mounts.

Using the existing bottom bracket tube and a template one could precisely mark the mounting holes and cutting profile, and would just need to manufacture spacer tubes to put between the sides and the gearbox, as well as between the gearbox mounts. Minimum welding would be involved, and precision could be fairly easy to achieve.

Using the Pinion Fat Bike Spider and cranks, we could actually match the existing chain line.

Just a dream, but I thought it was interesting :)

Of course as I mentioned before, then comes the issue of the torque sensor...
There use to be one called the BEAMTS that fits on the top of the pedaling chain but it does not seem to be available any longer. May be a rear dropout one like the TMM4 would work, I also heard of Chain Ring Torque sensors, but do not know if they can be fitted on any system.


Anyway, here are the CAD drawings

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Image

Online LMX folder
https://1drv.ms/u/s!At3vMAQjaOZLknFVeh7 ... 3?e=G6scG1

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by bzhwindtalker » Oct 24 2020 2:24pm

[youtube]LuHsgEyee1A[/youtube]

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Cowardlyduck   1.21 GW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Cowardlyduck » Oct 24 2020 8:05pm

Nice vlog. I have the same issue with my rear kicking me forward. I tried reducing rebound rate a lot, but it's too much of a compromise. Hadn't thought about reducing pressure TBH.

What pressure do you run Adam?

Cheers
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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by Cowardlyduck » Oct 25 2020 2:08am

Actually, nvm lol. I forgot my rear shock isn't air. :roll: I just have more rebound rate to tweak and also tried winding up the spring some more.

Took the LMX for a decent spin today. Was only meant to be a quick one, but I tried to take a shortcut and wound up in thick weeds (including lots of stinging nestle) pushing/lifting up a ridiculous hill. Got there eventually, but it was a real struggle. I would never have been able to do this on my Fighter that's for sure.
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Cheers
ebikegarage.com.au - My website
Ebike Garage - My YouTube Ebike ramblings.
Cowardlyducks - Videos - Ride videos
BikeE recumbent commuter - 9C, 6Fet Grinfineon, internal 17AH, 52V, + on-board solar.

Custom made 18650/21700 battery packs - Australia only

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by bzhwindtalker » Oct 30 2020 5:08pm

Hey guys! here is a preview of the lmx 64 ultimate build. Frame is anodised, the bike has 12 speed NX eagle gearing, belt drive, ZEB 38mm ultimate, Vivid R2C shock, G-spec brakes, new magnetic USB cable... We ordered an AXS 150mm dropper but it does not fit well due to the limited insertion lenght available on the frame. So we decrider not to include it on the build as it really increases the price!

This will be a limited edition for 2021
more details next week!

What do you think about the video? Should we add some music? We wanted to show how much goes into each bike. Many hours not even counting frame fabrication & wheel building :confused:

[youtube]j-T8rEMILMo[/youtube]

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by TorEddy » Oct 31 2020 3:51am

Nice video Adam!
I like these build videos and love too see all the details going into each build!
I would add some cool background music to the video, just to make it even more interesting.

This winter i will upgrade my 64 with new controller, belt drive and the zeb forks. I already have the rear shock, so i guess mine will be pretty similar to this.
But some questions:
Is that new magnetic connector for programming of the controller? If so is it necessary to have external?
I also see new thread inserts around the bottom bracket and high on the down tube. What are these for?
What are the reason for anodizing the frame compared to powder coating it?

Great work with the continuous development of this bike, and congrats to the new and lucky owner!
My 3rd Ride - LMX64 : :mrgreen:
My 2nd Ride - BBSHD NS Bikes : viewtopic.php?f=28&t=73264&p=1106366#p1106366
My 1st Ride - LR GNG Commencal : http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... dy#p728668

http://www.tomaso.no

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scrambler   1 kW

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by scrambler » Oct 31 2020 1:52pm

Great Video, it is so nice to see all the operations in details!

I actually like it silent, it keeps you focused on the quality work.

Keep it up, and may be one day we can have an Ultimate with a gear Box/IGH :)

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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Post by briangv99 » Nov 03 2020 6:21pm

Pedal strikes have been an ongoing annoyance whether riding rocky technical hill climbs or pedalling through whooped out sections of trail.

I first tried Miranda 160mm Q factor 4mm cranks, because they were the only listed as in stock on Miranda's store that fit my criteria. They were are big improvement on the stock 170mm LMX cranks, but every so often I still would end up clobbering the pedals into a rock, which is a bit unsettling and tends to halt progress on steep rocky hills.

So with this in mind I thought I'd try to find something shorter and with 0mm Q factor. The only cranks fitting the criteria were MIranda's Delta 152mm QF:0 cranks. Only problem they were listed as out of stock on their store. I contacted Miranda to check if or when they might become available again. I promptly received a reply back from Joao from Miranda with a link to purchase the cranks. Shipping is a little pricey but I couldn't complain about how long the package took to arrive, it was under a week. Top marks to Fedex for speedily delivering half way across the world to Australia.

On the couple rides so far the new cranks seem to be perfect. With no attempt to avoid pedal strikes on some local boulder strewn hills the cranks have not grounded out once. I also have some 152mm Miranda cranks on my Norco Sight Shimano E8000 bike and have had similar results, no more pedal strikes. 152mm seems to be the sweet spot.
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152mm on the right, 160mm on the left
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