Donor for tall guys

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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e-beach   1 GW

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Re: Donor for tall guys

Post by e-beach » May 26 2019 9:44pm

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"This is L.A., sugar. There is no 'over the top." Chris Erskine
"At a certain point the entropy wins." Maria Helena Braga

Current Build: ProFlex 757 Expert full suspension. Yescomusa 36v 800w Rear DD, upgraded 10AWG solid core through axle phase wires. 15ah Headway, 1000+ cycles, 80% DOD 30A Tronsung controller.

Past: Trek 4500 Yescomusa 36v 800w front DD.
Liahona, Yescomusa 36v 800w generic front DD.
1992 Trek 800, Yescomusa 800w 36v front DD.

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rootshell   100 mW

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Re: Donor for tall guys

Post by rootshell » May 26 2019 10:39pm

I guess it's going to come down to what best meets my requirements. I don't see myself going over 20mph (campus speed limit is 25mph and strictly enforced for all vehicles), so suspension is not a necessity right now. I've been steering away from new bikes due to the fact that steel frames are not as common as they once were. Do I really need a steel frame if my speeds are modest my distance is limited though?

Regardless,I've made an offer on the $125 green mongoose for $75, we'll see if he takes it and if it's mechanically sound upon inspection. If nothing else it gives me a couple of hundred more from my budget to put towards the electronics. There is a powder coat business down the street from work which I have friends at, so I'm sure I can work out a deal to get the frame redone. I suppose I can always transfer the electronics to another donor

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Re: Donor for tall guys

Post by wturber » May 26 2019 10:57pm

rootshell wrote:
May 26 2019 10:39pm
I guess it's going to come down to what best meets my requirements. I don't see myself going over 20mph (campus speed limit is 25mph and strictly enforced for all vehicles), so suspension is not a necessity right now. I've been steering away from new bikes due to the fact that steel frames are not as common as they once were. Do I really need a steel frame if my speeds are modest my distance is limited though?
I suppose it depends on the bike, but back when I was more up on what was "new" in bikes, Canondale was considered innovative with their tig welded aluminum alloy frames. The typical complaint was that they were too stiff due to their large tubes. Perhaps someone will correct me, but I'm pretty sure than an aluminum frame with large tubes of good quality (not at all sure about that Mongoose) will be plenty stiff. If anything, I suspect that good quality aluminum frames are typically "over-engineered" compared to steel frames.

Given the prep work needed for powder coating, I'm not sure that the Mongoose frame warrants it. But then if your friends are that good of friends and willing to do it super-cheap, then why not? Or perhaps save that favor to use on a better frame?
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Re: Donor for tall guys

Post by markz » May 26 2019 11:02pm

That makes the boys kinda tight when you stand over the top bar, 19" or 20" is what I usually go for.
An electric skateboard with them large off road wheels about half a foot or so, and a wireless hand controller. The one I saw climbed up a hill at a good speed, which I thought it couldn't.
neptronix wrote:
May 26 2019 5:51pm
6 foot 3, eh?
22" or larger is what you'll need.

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Re: Donor for tall guys

Post by rootshell » May 26 2019 11:12pm

wturber wrote:
May 26 2019 10:57pm

Given the prep work needed for powder coating, I'm not sure that the Mongoose frame warrants it. But then if your friends are that good of friends and willing to do it super-cheap, then why not? Or perhaps save that favor to use on a better frame?
I wouldn't be paying for the powder coat, I'm sure they would trade for IT services. To be honest though, the appearance doesn't bother me, and once I got the bike, I'm sure the amount of work to strip it down for prep would be enough to dissuade me from having the work done. I have nobody to impress at work. :wink:

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Re: Donor for tall guys

Post by markz » May 26 2019 11:19pm

No need to make anything look nice, its better to make the frame look not nice.

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Re: Donor for tall guys

Post by PRW » May 26 2019 11:47pm

is the $700 for the bike, or the bike, motor, controller and battery?
You may need to travel a bit to get something decent.
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/d/ ... 34435.html
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/d/ ... 46833.html

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Re: Donor for tall guys

Post by 2old » May 27 2019 9:18am

The Schwinn "Homegrown" (can't tell from the picture) was made by Yeti in CO AIR, and is a great frame. Considering it's your size, jump on it.

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Re: Donor for tall guys

Post by rootshell » May 27 2019 9:50am

PRW wrote:
May 26 2019 11:47pm
is the $700 for the bike, or the bike, motor, controller and battery?
You may need to travel a bit to get something decent.
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/d/ ... 34435.html
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/d/ ... 46833.html
$700 total project cost.
2old wrote:
May 27 2019 9:18am
The Schwinn "Homegrown" (can't tell from the picture) was made by Yeti in CO AIR, and is a great frame. Considering it's your size, jump on it.
It's the same guy selling the green mongoose I posted. I noticed when I tried to contact him yesterday and my phone prefilled the phone number. No response, trying again today to see both bikes.

EDIT: Just spoke with the seller. He's pretty firm on the price of both, so I'm gonna head out at noon to see them. He's got like 150 bikes for sale and has been marking them down already. Apparently with uber and lyft, sales are very slow in recent years.

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Re: Donor for tall guys

Post by rootshell » May 27 2019 6:31pm

Well, I am now the proud owner of the Schwinn Frontier GS. :D

Now on to the electronics...
Last edited by rootshell on May 27 2019 6:48pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Donor for tall guys

Post by wturber » May 27 2019 6:35pm

rootshell wrote:
May 27 2019 6:31pm
Well, I am not the proud owner of the Schwinn Frontier GS. :D

Now on to the electronics...
"not" = "now"?
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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rootshell   100 mW

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Re: Donor for tall guys

Post by rootshell » May 27 2019 6:49pm

wturber wrote:
May 27 2019 6:35pm
rootshell wrote:
May 27 2019 6:31pm
Well, I am not the proud owner of the Schwinn Frontier GS. :D

Now on to the electronics...
"not" = "now"?
Fixed. ;)

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e-beach   1 GW

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Re: Donor for tall guys

Post by e-beach » May 27 2019 8:14pm

Steel frame?

:D :bolt:
Favorite Quotes:
"This is L.A., sugar. There is no 'over the top." Chris Erskine
"At a certain point the entropy wins." Maria Helena Braga

Current Build: ProFlex 757 Expert full suspension. Yescomusa 36v 800w Rear DD, upgraded 10AWG solid core through axle phase wires. 15ah Headway, 1000+ cycles, 80% DOD 30A Tronsung controller.

Past: Trek 4500 Yescomusa 36v 800w front DD.
Liahona, Yescomusa 36v 800w generic front DD.
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Re: Donor for tall guys

Post by rootshell » May 27 2019 10:30pm

e-beach wrote:
May 27 2019 8:14pm
Steel frame?

:D :bolt:
Yes sir, through and through. :wink:

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Re: Donor for tall guys

Post by e-beach » May 27 2019 10:58pm

OK, then an inexpensive Chinese generic hub motor will work. Spreading the rear dropouts if necessary is not a big issue.
Have you decided if a small motor would work for you, or are you going for a 48v or higher setup?

I am assuming that it has a non-suspension front fork.

Also, to post pictures you will need to keep the file size under 512k to post them here on ES.

:D :bolt:
Favorite Quotes:
"This is L.A., sugar. There is no 'over the top." Chris Erskine
"At a certain point the entropy wins." Maria Helena Braga

Current Build: ProFlex 757 Expert full suspension. Yescomusa 36v 800w Rear DD, upgraded 10AWG solid core through axle phase wires. 15ah Headway, 1000+ cycles, 80% DOD 30A Tronsung controller.

Past: Trek 4500 Yescomusa 36v 800w front DD.
Liahona, Yescomusa 36v 800w generic front DD.
1992 Trek 800, Yescomusa 800w 36v front DD.

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Re: Donor for tall guys

Post by rootshell » May 27 2019 11:43pm

e-beach wrote:
May 27 2019 10:58pm
OK, then an inexpensive Chinese generic hub motor will work. Spreading the rear dropouts if necessary is not a big issue.
Have you decided if a small motor would work for you, or are you going for a 48v or higher setup?

I am assuming that it has a non-suspension front fork.

Also, to post pictures you will need to keep the file size under 512k to post them here on ES.

:D :bolt:
I was going to go with a 36V/500W, but I think that a 48V/1000W would be more beneficial. The bike and I will weigh a lot together, plus the extra power I don't really have to use. I can always transfer it to another donor in the future as well.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-26-Fr ... XbPDRth-dg

It does have a non suspension front fork. The brakes will need addressing as I don't have a lot of confidence in them as they currently stand. Maybe replace the front caliper with a V or disc. There's also areas of brown paint covering where the frame and parts must have been starting to rust. I'm leaning more and more towards a powder coating if I can get it done on the cheap or free from my contacts. It will also give me an opportunity to clean up the rest of the parts and inspect everything.
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Re: Donor for tall guys

Post by Chalo » May 28 2019 12:17am

Get that front brake off of there with a quickness. That's useless garbage.

It looks like the wheels (the front wheel for sure) are also garbage.

You got a decent and nicely tall frame at least. That's worth more than you paid, I think.
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Re: Donor for tall guys

Post by rootshell » May 28 2019 12:39am

Chalo wrote:
May 28 2019 12:17am
Get that front brake off of there with a quickness. That's useless garbage.

It looks like the wheels (the front wheel for sure) are also garbage.

You got a decent and nicely tall frame at least. That's worth more than you paid, I think.
It looks a mess, but the ride and shift is solid. I told him there was no way he was getting asking price from me for it, in it's current state. It will clean up nicely, however. I've already dismantled most of it.

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Re: Donor for tall guys

Post by neptronix » May 28 2019 12:52am

I wouldn't run those brakes on a 25mph bike. Unless you are using a rear DD and set up regen. Hopefully that kind of brake isn't on the back too.
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Re: Donor for tall guys

Post by rootshell » May 28 2019 12:59am

neptronix wrote:
May 28 2019 12:52am
I wouldn't run those brakes on a 25mph bike. Unless you are using a rear DD and set up regen. Hopefully that kind of brake isn't on the back too.

I'm a big fan of regen and plan to use it whenever possible. The rear is pictured as well and it's V style. With the right pads it should be effective enough. The fronts are already in the trash.

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Re: Donor for tall guys

Post by wturber » May 28 2019 9:15am

rootshell wrote:
May 27 2019 11:43pm


I was going to go with a 36V/500W, but I think that a 48V/1000W would be more beneficial. The bike and I will weigh a lot together, plus the extra power I don't really have to use. I can always transfer it to another donor in the future as well.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-26-Fr ... XbPDRth-dg
I think this is the same seller I bought my kit from. Seriously consider getting the $210 kit with the LCD and PAS. This will give your system a lot of configuration flexibility since the LCD will let you set options in the controller. It will let you configure the bike to be a Class 1, Class 2, or Class 3 (if that matters for you) and set up regen if the controller supports it. It also provides some other good info like speed, distance, and system voltage. And provides an interface for different PAS assist levels. It is easily worth the extra $50 IMO.

The wheel on that kit will come with 12 gauge spokes and a Chinese "Champion" rim. That rim will have surfaces for rim brakes. My experience was that the rim started to crack at the spoke holes after about 5000 miles. Chalo will explain that this is because the spokes are too low of a gauge for a bicycle rim and that thinner spokes should be used. So you might want to consider having the wheel relaced straight away, or you could just run it until it gives you trouble and deal with it then. That's what I did. The combination of a very high quality wheel laced by a top notch "wheel guy" ended up costing me almost as much as the original kit. But I think you could get just a the $50-75 dollar range and maybe the Chinese "Champion" rim will be good enuf. After all, 5000 miles is more distance than most bikes ever see in their lifetime of use. That said, you are a heavier rider than I am (170 lbs). So your wheel may have higher stress.
rootshell wrote:
May 27 2019 11:43pm
It does have a non suspension front fork. The brakes will need addressing as I don't have a lot of confidence in them as they currently stand. Maybe replace the front caliper with a V or disc. There's also areas of brown paint covering where the frame and parts must have been starting to rust. I'm leaning more and more towards a powder coating if I can get it done on the cheap or free from my contacts. It will also give me an opportunity to clean up the rest of the parts and inspect everything.
Get out the spreadsheet and start adding up costs. This is where the more expensive but fully functional bike can start to show advantages by not having to replace as many bits and pieces. This is also why it can be very hard to keep project costs at around $700. There are lots of little things that start to creep in. Things like chargers, new seat, chain, solder, connectors, wire wrap, sand paper, powder coating, blah blah blah ...
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Re: Donor for tall guys

Post by 2old » May 28 2019 10:41am

"V" or disc brakes on the front fork will require either studs("V") or a mount (disc) to be welded to the fork or a new fork. Also, disc brakes in the front mandate a new wheel. That wasn't the "homegrown" I thought it was, but the frame looks sturdy and fits you so that's a big plus. I purchased a kit from accerries (or whatever) 4+ years ago and it's worked fine @ 52V.

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Re: Donor for tall guys

Post by rootshell » May 28 2019 11:05am

wturber wrote:
May 28 2019 9:15am

I think this is the same seller I bought my kit from. Seriously consider getting the $210 kit with the LCD and PAS. This will give your system a lot of configuration flexibility since the LCD will let you set options in the controller. It will let you configure the bike to be a Class 1, Class 2, or Class 3 (if that matters for you) and set up regen if the controller supports it. It also provides some other good info like speed, distance, and system voltage. And provides an interface for different PAS assist levels. It is easily worth the extra $50 IMO.
I did plan on purchasing the $210 version. However, the stock photo pic is identical to the AW version, which does not have regen. So I might have to research other options if that turns out to be the case. Don't want to have to swap out components in the kit, especially the controller.
wturber wrote:
May 28 2019 9:15am
The wheel on that kit will come with 12 gauge spokes and a Chinese "Champion" rim. That rim will have surfaces for rim brakes. My experience was that the rim started to crack at the spoke holes after about 5000 miles. Chalo will explain that this is because the spokes are too low of a gauge for a bicycle rim and that thinner spokes should be used. So you might want to consider having the wheel relaced straight away, or you could just run it until it gives you trouble and deal with it then. That's what I did. The combination of a very high quality wheel laced by a top notch "wheel guy" ended up costing me almost as much as the original kit. But I think you could get just a the $50-75 dollar range and maybe the Chinese "Champion" rim will be good enuf. After all, 5000 miles is more distance than most bikes ever see in their lifetime of use. That said, you are a heavier rider than I am (170 lbs). So your wheel may have higher stress.
Thanks for the heads-up, good information for the future as I decide what to upgrade later on. I'm going to run any kit as-is for now. If I were going to have it relaced, I would simply start out with a higher quality kit that doesn't suffer from this design issue if possible. Seems more cost effective.
wturber wrote:
May 28 2019 9:15am
Get out the spreadsheet and start adding up costs. This is where the more expensive but fully functional bike can start to show advantages by not having to replace as many bits and pieces. This is also why it can be very hard to keep project costs at around $700. There are lots of little things that start to creep in. Things like chargers, new seat, chain, solder, connectors, wire wrap, sand paper, powder coating, blah blah blah ...
The shop has agreed to powder coat the frame for me in exchange for some IT work. So I'll be dropping it off there tomorrow. All I need to decide on now is the color. I'm leaning towards red or green. I don't have a crank puller, so I may have to stop by the bike shop today and grab one.

My degree is in electronics and, being a large scale aircraft RC enthusiast, I have a great shop, lots of tools, and tons of supplies in regards to wiring, connectors, etc.

I don't plan on changing out the front wheel yet. I imagine it's good for 20mph. If I have any sense of issues, it will be addressed immediately. I'll probably be grannying this thing for a bit until I feel comfortable with the setup.

I've been riding the communal bikes with crappy seats, one speed, and no suspension for 20 years. This thing is a Cadillac in comparison.

The derailers are something I'm not versed in, so I'l probably need some help in that area in regards to any red flags.

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Re: Donor for tall guys

Post by rootshell » May 28 2019 11:06am

2old wrote:
May 28 2019 10:41am
"V" or disc brakes on the front fork will require either studs("V") or a mount (disc) to be welded to the fork or a new fork. Also, disc brakes in the front mandate a new wheel. That wasn't the "homegrown" I thought it was, but the frame looks sturdy and fits you so that's a big plus. I purchased a kit from accerries (or whatever) 4+ years ago and it's worked fine @ 52V.
The front forks have the V studs. Looks like someone just threw the caliper brakes on.

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Re: Donor for tall guys

Post by wturber » May 28 2019 1:51pm

rootshell wrote:
May 28 2019 11:05am

I did plan on purchasing the $210 version. However, the stock photo pic is identical to the AW version, which does not have regen. So I might have to research other options if that turns out to be the case. Don't want to have to swap out components in the kit, especially the controller.
I'm not sure what you mean by "AW" version. That said, the kit doesn't specify regen capabilities, so you can't count on it having it. Mine didn't have regen either per the specs either, but I was able to enable electric braking which is a form of regen even so. I didn't end up using it though because it conflicts with the boost converter I'm using. But that was about 20 months ago and there's no way to know if they are specing the exact same controller today. The consensus main benefit of regen seems to be that it saves on brake wear. If regen is a priority for you, then for sure make sure your kit includes it in the specs.
rootshell wrote:
May 28 2019 11:05am

Thanks for the heads-up, good information for the future as I decide what to upgrade later on. I'm going to run any kit as-is for now. If I were going to have it relaced, I would simply start out with a higher quality kit that doesn't suffer from this design issue if possible. Seems more cost effective.

Maybe. The problem is that most inexpensive kits are going to have wheel builds of an unknown pedigree. Grin will almost surely build you a good wheel, but they aren't the budget source. Also, I only have about 3000 miles on my new "better" wheel. But I don't really know if it is going to start having problems after 5000 miles. So what is ultimately the most economical long term approach seems unclear to me. There's a bit of a crap-shoot involved with kit wheels.
rootshell wrote:
May 28 2019 11:05am

The shop has agreed to powder coat the frame for me in exchange for some IT work. So I'll be dropping it off there tomorrow. All I need to decide on now is the color. I'm leaning towards red or green. I don't have a crank puller, so I may have to stop by the bike shop today and grab one.
From what others have said, the frame you bought is a worthy candidate (assuming no rust damage) for the powder coat job. You won't use a crank puller often, but its the kind of thing that's worth having if you are going to work on your own bike. That should cost about $20-30 from a bike shop.
rootshell wrote:
May 28 2019 11:05am
The derailers are something I'm not versed in, so I'l probably need some help in that area in regards to any red flags.
If you are riding on fairly level ground, there won't be a whole lot of need for shifting. You'll used maybe three gears. The freewheel that came with my kit was pretty much junk. Maybe mine was defective and you'll have better luck. I replaced my kit freewheel with a DNP freewheel which I find to be a LOT better but that Chalo considers (I think) barely better than junk. If the bike you bought has a freewheel (and not a cassette) and it is in good condition, you may want to transplant that to the new motor/wheel. If you are thinking about doing that, you'll need a freewheel removal tool. I suggest not getting that from the local bike shop unless you can confirm it has an extra large hole for the center axle. While the standard tool will work fine for a standard bike, it won't work on a motor wheel because the axle has a larger diameter. So the existing gears and shifters may work out just fine for you if it is all basically operational now.

While I'm thinking about tools again, you'll want a bottom bracket removal tool as well if you are going to replace the bottom bracket. That might make sense depending on the condition of the existing one. I mean, if you are going to remove the cranks for the powder coat job why not? In for a penny ... :D
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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