Townie 7D front shocks?

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
stevecahill   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 49
Joined: Jan 28 2019 5:25am

Re: Townie 7D front shocks?

Post by stevecahill » Jul 07 2019 7:39pm

In this video a split crown ring is shown. Trying to find the correct one will be a challenge.
https://youtu.be/U9xF1Vt00bA
Regards
Steve

2old   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1051
Joined: Jul 19 2014 3:20pm
Location: Socal

Re: Townie 7D front shocks?

Post by 2old » Jul 07 2019 9:58pm

I've never seen a crown race that couldn't be removed from a fork; the only other alternative is to machine it on the fork. You may need to start taking it off using a razor blade to get initial clearance.

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 27561
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Townie 7D front shocks?

Post by amberwolf » Jul 07 2019 10:17pm

If you have any old chisel, or steak knife, pocket knife, etc., that you can sacrifice (in case it chips), you can use a wooden block, rubber mallet, etc., to tap it into the seam/gap between the crown race and the fork, moving it around in a circle tapping it in a bit further each time until the race pops off.


IF you really can't get it off, and you want a nice durable headset, you can get one by FSA that will work fine (I use The Pig, in threadless), just make sure you order the right diameter and type (threaded) for your fork.


(Re)installing the race onto the new fork is best done using either:
-- a tube that perfectly fits around the steerer, so that the tube *only* puts force on the extreme inner/upper lip of the race,
or
--a tube that only sits on teh outer (flat) lip of the race, so ti only puts force there
That way no force is placed on the bearing race surface itself, so it doesnt' get scratched or dinged, whcih will lead to bearing wear or chipping and failure.

I usually use a piece of PVC pipe and a rubber mallet...but there are tools made for the purpose, just expensive for a one-time job. If you have a local bike shop, you can bring the two forks to them and they can swap them out for you for cheap, most likely.

docw009   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1098
Joined: Aug 02 2015 7:43am
Location: Chicago area suburbs.

Re: Townie 7D front shocks?

Post by docw009 » Jul 07 2019 10:47pm

Moving the old crown race to the new fork is the best bet because you know for sure it will match the bearings, but that measured 1.5mm difference in diameters worries me. I once installed a crown race that was slightly undersized, and I had to use my home made press (7/8" threaded rod, nuts, washers, and pipe )to push it on. Needed a 2 foot breaker bar to turn the nuts. I think now that I should have tried to sand some metal off the inside of that race,

If you take it to a bike shop, I'm not sure they can match an off the shelf race just by placing the old bearing on it. Best to buy a complete headset. Not expensive, but you have to knock out the old cups and press in the new ones. Easy with a home made press.

stevecahill   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 49
Joined: Jan 28 2019 5:25am

Re: Townie 7D front shocks?

Post by stevecahill » Jul 08 2019 5:51am

My intention is to put a new raceway in the bottom of the new Suntour where is does flare out and is larger than the Townies.

The Townie's diameter as you mention is slightly different so it's not going to fit. The Suntour bottom tube flares out to 30mm so that will be a press fit or a split ring as shown in the video above. I like the idea of the pipe over the steering tube to press it into place. The ring will rest on the buttom support that measures 43.50mm

The Suntour's top is threaded and the original Townie's nut fits just fine, so no worries for that.

Thank you.
Attachments
fork suntour.jpg
suntour fork demensions.jpeg
Regards
Steve

User avatar
E-HP   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 795
Joined: Nov 01 2018 9:20pm

Re: Townie 7D front shocks?

Post by E-HP » Jul 08 2019 10:36am

If you’re not going to reuse the old crown race, then you might as well take the two forks to a shop to do the swap and determine the right one to use (at which point they’ll pop off the old one and put it on the new fork).

The job takes 10 minutes tops (I swapped out my forks weekend before last, and took 30 minutes including swapping out my handlebars and rerouting cables/wires).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

stevecahill   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 49
Joined: Jan 28 2019 5:25am

Re: Townie 7D front shocks?

Post by stevecahill » Jul 08 2019 10:44am

The old one is not going to fit. Going to get a new one for the Suntour.
Regards
Steve

2old   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1051
Joined: Jul 19 2014 3:20pm
Location: Socal

Re: Townie 7D front shocks?

Post by 2old » Jul 08 2019 11:36am

The dimensions of the fork seem incongruous since straight should be 1 and 1/8 inches (31.75 mm) or Tapered 1 and 1/2 inches (38.1 mm). Theoretically the race from the Electra fork should fit IMO. BTW, I've had crown races so tight that it was necessary to use a single-sided razor blade to start removing then although my lbs has a tool for it.

User avatar
E-HP   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 795
Joined: Nov 01 2018 9:20pm

Re: Townie 7D front shocks?

Post by E-HP » Jul 08 2019 11:55am

stevecahill wrote:
Jul 08 2019 10:44am
The old one is not going to fit. Going to get a new one for the Suntour.
OK. Good luck.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/headsets.html
Last edited by E-HP on Jul 08 2019 6:31pm, edited 1 time in total.

stevecahill   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 49
Joined: Jan 28 2019 5:25am

Re: Townie 7D front shocks?

Post by stevecahill » Jul 08 2019 11:58am

This is the Suntour I purchased.
Attachments
Screenshot_20190708-125619.png
Regards
Steve

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 27561
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Townie 7D front shocks?

Post by amberwolf » Jul 08 2019 10:11pm

stevecahill wrote:
Jul 08 2019 5:51am
My intention is to put a new raceway in the bottom of the new Suntour where is does flare out and is larger than the Townies.
Then you'll want a whole new headset, becuase I doubt the bearings you have could fit a larger race properly.

This requires removing the cups from the Townie frame and installing the new ones that come with the new headset (which also comes with all the bearings and races, and for threaded should include a new race-nut for the top threaded portion). I can recommend FSA as a brand that's worked well for me.

The article E-HP linked to sheldonbrown's site is a good reference I recommend reading in full.

User avatar
E-HP   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 795
Joined: Nov 01 2018 9:20pm

Re: Townie 7D front shocks?

Post by E-HP » Jul 08 2019 10:42pm

amberwolf wrote:
Jul 08 2019 10:11pm
Then you'll want a whole new headset, becuase I doubt the bearings you have could fit a larger race properly.

This requires removing the cups from the Townie frame and installing the new ones that come with the new headset (which also comes with all the bearings and races, and for threaded should include a new race-nut for the top threaded portion). I can recommend FSA as a brand that's worked well for me.
An option would be to just change the bottom half of the headset, and just match the finish (silver/black). I had to do that once when I sold off a fork and forgot to take off the crown race. I gave up looking for a replacement (maybe someone knows where to get one for a Blackspire Shore DH headset?), so I switched the bottom out with an old (vintage :lol: ) Chris King.

stevecahill   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 49
Joined: Jan 28 2019 5:25am

Re: Townie 7D front shocks?

Post by stevecahill » Jul 09 2019 5:52am

Very helpful information in the posts. Will update when I receive headset.

Thank you
Steve
Regards
Steve

stevecahill   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 49
Joined: Jan 28 2019 5:25am

Re: Townie 7D front shocks?

Post by stevecahill » Jul 22 2019 4:21pm

UPDATE: The suspension fork is installed, as well as a Hayes MX5 comp mechanical disc brake. I have yet to dress the wires. I received the Hayes w/o the barrel adjustment screw, but set up the disc brake w/o it until I receive it.

My first impressions are that the suspension front fork even with a spring smooths out any bumps and stops any shock to travel to my wrists. I am happy with this. The front fork raised the 26" wheel about 2 inches. Not a big deal. I find the handling is just fine with this new height. I like the fact that now the handle bars are up so there is less strain on the wrists. I did however have to add a lift extension to the kick stand legs so that it would be more stable as it now has 3 points of contacts with the modification and the weight is now centered under the stand. This keeps it from falling over in a gust of wind as I have experienced in the past with both the front and rear wheels on the ground. Now the front is off the ground by 1-2".

The weight of the bike with the new additions is 85 lbs. I do have 18650's with a 10s 10p configuration. I get around 70 miles with pedal assist until range anxiety sets in. I usually charge up to 40 volts and the BMS is set to shutdown at 25 volts. So 60 miles is a good point of reference. I do not use the throttle.

In hindsight I should of installed a larger front rotor than the 160mm currently in place. 85 pounds of e-bike and the rider I am stopping 269 lbs. The disc on the front stops the bike but it is not holding fast. A non-ebike I have offers an instant stop with 160 mm rotors. Would be interested in hearing suggestions for a future upgrade of the disc brake.
Attachments
IMG_20190720_182226.jpg
IMG_20190720_182226.jpg (479.21 KiB) Viewed 389 times
IMG_20190720_182235.jpg
IMG_20190720_182235.jpg (392.61 KiB) Viewed 389 times
IMG_20190720_182258.jpg
IMG_20190720_182258.jpg (412.61 KiB) Viewed 389 times
IMG_20190720_182220.jpg
IMG_20190720_182220.jpg (418.03 KiB) Viewed 389 times
Regards
Steve

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 27561
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Townie 7D front shocks?

Post by amberwolf » Jul 22 2019 10:39pm

I'm using the Avid BB7 Mountain cable-operated disc, whatever pads came with it, 200mm rotor, and it'll easily skid the wheel on the SB Cruiser trike if I slam it on. ;) That's about 500lbs with me on it.

On a bicycle I expect I could probably do a stoppie or flip it and land on my head. :P


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0055 ... UTF8&psc=1

2old   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1051
Joined: Jul 19 2014 3:20pm
Location: Socal

Re: Townie 7D front shocks?

Post by 2old » Jul 22 2019 11:44pm

Agree with AW, FME, BB7's are the cream of the mechanical disc crop.

User avatar
thundercamel   100 W

100 W
Posts: 277
Joined: Jul 23 2018 2:58pm
Location: Round Lake, Illinois

Re: Townie 7D front shocks?

Post by thundercamel » Jul 23 2019 8:45am

Glad to hear it's working well! I use the same style of kickstand. Did you end up getting a new headset for the bottom bearing race? Was the brake rotor cleaned with degreaser or brake cleaner when it was installed? From my experience with cars, once the brake pads bed onto the rotor, it will provide more stopping power.
stevecahill wrote:
Jul 22 2019 4:21pm
The weight of the bike with the new additions is 85 lbs. I do have 18650's with a 10s 10p configuration. I get around 70 miles with pedal assist until range anxiety sets in. I usually charge up to 40 volts and the BMS is set to shutdown at 25 volts. So 60 miles is a good point of reference. I do not use the throttle.
That is some great range! Do you know what type of cells are used in your battery? You may already know all this, but definitely don't want to go any lower than the 25 volts that you already are. With the specs of most cells, you should be able to charge your pack up to a max of 42 volts, and that will significantly increase your range when you need it. The everyday charge of 40 volts though will help you get as many cycles as you can long term from the pack.
My Ebike builds - Existing bikes, affordable motor kits, self built 14s6p batteries - Now with more recumbent!

User avatar
E-HP   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 795
Joined: Nov 01 2018 9:20pm

Re: Townie 7D front shocks?

Post by E-HP » Jul 23 2019 9:43am

thundercamel wrote:
Jul 23 2019 8:45am
Was the brake rotor cleaned with degreaser or brake cleaner when it was installed? From my experience with cars, once the brake pads bed onto the rotor, it will provide more stopping power.
Good points. It took about 100 miles before my brakes had full stopping power when I installed my brakes and new rotors. I had them adjusted for minimal clearance in the beginning but ended up adjusting them out a click at a time over a few days as they bedded. Now a light pressure with two fingers is all I need even in an emergency stop, which is pretty good for mechanical calipers.

stevecahill   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 49
Joined: Jan 28 2019 5:25am

Re: Townie 7D front shocks?

Post by stevecahill » Jul 23 2019 12:22pm

I did replace the headset just the bottom as the top fit just fine with this AheadSet Ec External Cup Threaded, Black
by 365 Cycles. @ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003HGJPVY/re ... nDb0YEDP13.

I did not seat it all the way down as I was nervous about damaging it. I left about 1/8" of visible space. Thought if it settles in further than I can make that adjustment. So far it has not moved. I used a plastic pipe over the tube and on the raceway to get it in place while being conservative about how forceful I proceeded hitting it with a rubber mallet.
race.jpeg
race.jpeg (115.94 KiB) Viewed 362 times
It seems to work just fine. This winter I will inspect it all.

I used isopropyl alcohol to clean the rotor 2x with rubber gloves, did not even think to use the Brakeleen I had after doing a auto brake job. I will reclean the rotor again with Brakeleen. Is this something you do every so often?

The batteries I used were Samsung 29E 18650 2.75A I purchased theses at LiionWholesale.com They were recommended by another member on Endless Sphere who uses them building packs in the Netherlands. For a 100 they were $3.05 each. So far they have held up very nice. I stand corrected my BMS is set to only allow batteries to go to 2.9 volts. I have yet to let it get to that point. To date I only charge about 1x a week. Have yet go to 42 volts, but will try next charging session.
https://www.akkuparts24.de/mediafiles// ... 50-29E.pdf

Thanks for your valuable insights.
Regards
Steve

User avatar
thundercamel   100 W

100 W
Posts: 277
Joined: Jul 23 2018 2:58pm
Location: Round Lake, Illinois

Re: Townie 7D front shocks?

Post by thundercamel » Jul 23 2019 2:55pm

stevecahill wrote:
Jul 23 2019 12:22pm
I used isopropyl alcohol to clean the rotor 2x with rubber gloves, did not even think to use the Brakeleen I had after doing a auto brake job. I will reclean the rotor again with Brakeleen. Is this something you do every so often?
Thanks for the response! I only clean the braking surface rotors/drums once when I first install them, to get the oil off from rust prevention during shipping. The alcohol should have done the job just fine.

Edit: Also for the charging capacity and cycles, here's an estimate from this website:

"Table 4: Discharge cycles and capacity as a function of charge voltage limit. Every 0.10V drop below 4.20V/cell doubles the cycle but holds less capacity. Raising the voltage above 4.20V/cell would shorten the life. The readings reflect regular Li-ion charging to 4.20V/cell."

Code: Select all

(V/cell) Cycles     Energy

[4.30]  [150–250]  [110–115%]
4.25     200–350    105–110%
4.20     300–500    100%
4.15     400–700     90–95%
4.10     600–1,000   85–90%
4.05     850–1,500   80–85%
4.00   1,200–2,000   70–75%
3.90   2,400–4,000   60–65%
3.80    See note     35–40%
3.70    See note     30% and less
My Ebike builds - Existing bikes, affordable motor kits, self built 14s6p batteries - Now with more recumbent!

markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7578
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: Townie 7D front shocks?

Post by markz » Jul 23 2019 7:24pm

I'd look for the Suntour XCR if the price isnt that much different then the XCM, but I wouldnt bother with the XCT.
Air is good because you can air up or air down, but one little leak and its s.o.l. so thats why the coil suspension forks may be a choice too. Buy a fork with an availability of coils to put in the fork. If you go air, buy a spare rebuilt kit for it in case you get a leak.

I've looked for various good quality used forks, but non are long enough for the Townie, whether its your 7D or 21D. I've ridden both, what I did not like about the 7D was when I rode it, the chain would pop off frequently at the crank. The 21D I bought used, but it was like new. Its good to have 3 crank gears for a hub motor setup.

https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspensi ... 40272.html
he hierarchy from low to high would be XCT, XCM, XCR. V2, V3 has to do with the 'version'. higher number is newer generation.

Forks specified by different bicycle brands can be configured in a number of different ways, so its hard for me to understand exactly what you are looking at, that being said;

Our XCM and XCR models come with 30mm stanchions. ( the upper tubes) if you compare this to other forks in the price range, many of our competitors will often use 28mm stanchions. Larger diameter = improved stiffness and strength. Also, the pitch, or width of these two forks is 130mm. You will find that to be a bit wider than many of our competitors. Generally speaking, wider is better.

Second, our XCM and XCR models are what we call QSP, or quick service products. That means if your fork's internals ever wear out our suffer a problem, the fork can be fixed easily by replacing the entire cartridge.

Finally, if you are shopping for a bike that is less than $1,000 I'm sure you have seen that many of those bikes are equipped with SR Suntour forks. The primary reasons for this are based on the fact that the bicycle brands have come to trust SR Suntour to supply them with a reliable product that performs well. (that may seem simple, but its a big deal) Additionally, we operate service centers in North America, Asia and Europe to back up our product.

I hope this helps and good luck in purchasing a new bike. Ride it alot!

stevecahill   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 49
Joined: Jan 28 2019 5:25am

Re: Townie 7D front shocks?

Post by stevecahill » Jul 24 2019 4:14am

When I purchased the Townie back in 2011, the chain did keep coming off. Shortened the chain and that took care of that issue.
Regards
Steve

999zip999   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 8936
Joined: Jan 10 2010 1:40pm
Location: Dana Point So. Cal

Re: Townie 7D front shocks?

Post by 999zip999 » Jul 24 2019 2:45pm

The bearings ride on the race.

markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7578
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: Townie 7D front shocks?

Post by markz » Sep 18 2019 12:06am

Yeah when I was riding the 7D before the 21D the chain fell off crank alot.
I just purchased a nice Norco Santiago, its a cush ride, its a 1x7. The wheel base seems a tad longer then the Electra because when I put it on the buses bike rake the wheels barely fit in the cradle. I have seen various other Townies for sale, I pondered a 21D in female frame that was C$250 but figured the frame geometry aint the same as the mens. The womens frame would be shorter. The 8 Ball looks like a good ride, but its a 1xIGH. Any shock will do on the bikes, used forks would be cut too short to fit on the Townie Electra's long head tube.
stevecahill wrote:
Jul 24 2019 4:14am
When I purchased the Townie back in 2011, the chain did keep coming off. Shortened the chain and that took care of that issue.

Post Reply