Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

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Darren2018   10 W

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Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

Post by Darren2018 » Jul 01 2019 12:19pm

Hi,

I am wanting to build an EEB with a QS205 V3 (this setup seems to be really popular on ES) but I am not really sure how to set it up to achieve my goals.

These are the things I would like from this build.

A range of 45-50 miles @ 30mph
A respectable efficiency at 30mph
Pedal power still being able to be used at around 30mph ( not sure how to set the chainring up or what's possible with this motor and frame, I would like to use 17in moto rims with off road tyres)
A top speed of around 45-50mph
The controller (I am thinking a Sabvoton SVMC72150) and battery (around 240-260 cells) to be able to fit within the frame.

I have read through lots of EEB and QS205 build threads and I am guessing that something along the lines of a 20S13P (or 12P) GA battery along with a SVMC72150 and QS205 V3 between 3T-5T would be able to be setup in such a way to achieve most of my goals but I am really not certain and would like to hear other peoples opinions.

This is exactly what I am trying to achieve:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCK6acOcwvQ[/youtube]
Last edited by Darren2018 on Jul 01 2019 2:44pm, edited 2 times in total.

flat tire   1 MW

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Re: Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

Post by flat tire » Jul 01 2019 12:47pm

Enduro frames suck. Just get a scooter, it will be about as stealthy as one of those enduro bikes and way more suitable for what you think you're gonna be doing. Really though you're making a heavy bike that handles like shit and won't even fly under the radar. Think about that for a second.

Darren2018   10 W

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Re: Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

Post by Darren2018 » Jul 01 2019 1:15pm

flat tire wrote:
Jul 01 2019 12:47pm
Enduro frames suck. Just get a scooter, it will be about as stealthy as one of those enduro bikes and way more suitable for what you think you're gonna be doing. Really though you're making a heavy bike that handles like shit and won't even fly under the radar. Think about that for a second.
Ok thanks... I currently have a 2018 Giant Talon 3 29er with a BBSHD which feels too light and imo the handling is awful. Are the EEB frames really bad then? I do not want a scooter as I like pedalling.

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   100 kW

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Re: Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Jul 01 2019 1:53pm

the frame is the most important part of the build so don't cheap out there.. have a look at Qulbix and other quality ebike frame options, not just another chinese copy of a copy of a copy;)
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

Darren2018   10 W

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Re: Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

Post by Darren2018 » Jul 01 2019 2:13pm

efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Jul 01 2019 1:53pm
the frame is the most important part of the build so don't cheap out there.. have a look at Qulbix and other quality ebike frame options, not just another chinese copy of a copy of a copy;)
I was going to get one of the EBS Prime frames as I think it looks amazing but decided against it due to not many people having used or tested them. I was thinking that the original EEB frame would be ok (despite not looking as nice) seeing as everyone is using them. I have noticed that there was a clone of this frame available with flat side panels. I am right in assuming that this is the original EEB frame:

OEM supplier?
https://www.enduroebike.com/index.php?r ... uct_id=254

Resellers?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3234491 ... st=ae803_5
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3234660 ... st=ae803_5

Clone of the EEB/Qulbix? (the seat post and side panels are different)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E-Bike-Frame ... _FODBuKGkw

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   100 kW

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Re: Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Jul 01 2019 4:52pm

Darren2018 wrote:
Jul 01 2019 2:13pm
efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Jul 01 2019 1:53pm
the frame is the most important part of the build so don't cheap out there.. have a look at Qulbix and other quality ebike frame options, not just another chinese copy of a copy of a copy;)
I was going to get one of the EBS Prime frames as I think it looks amazing but decided against it due to not many people having used or tested them. I was thinking that the original EEB frame would be ok (despite not looking as nice) seeing as everyone is using them. I have noticed that there was a clone of this frame available with flat side panels. I am right in assuming that this is the original EEB frame:

OEM supplier?
https://www.enduroebike.com/index.php?r ... uct_id=254

Resellers?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3234491 ... st=ae803_5
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3234660 ... st=ae803_5

Clone of the EEB/Qulbix? (the seat post and side panels are different)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E-Bike-Frame ... _FODBuKGkw
do you plan to ride any off-road or just a street bike?? all those frames that have the pedals mounted on the swing arm have poor rear suspension design for off-road.. rider standing on the swingarm becomes unsprung weight.. qulbix is also available as a mid-drive.. also have you looked at Mammoth ebike or Boxxbike ??
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

Darren2018   10 W

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Re: Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

Post by Darren2018 » Jul 01 2019 6:10pm

efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Jul 01 2019 4:52pm
Darren2018 wrote:
Jul 01 2019 2:13pm
efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Jul 01 2019 1:53pm
the frame is the most important part of the build so don't cheap out there.. have a look at Qulbix and other quality ebike frame options, not just another chinese copy of a copy of a copy;)
I was going to get one of the EBS Prime frames as I think it looks amazing but decided against it due to not many people having used or tested them. I was thinking that the original EEB frame would be ok (despite not looking as nice) seeing as everyone is using them. I have noticed that there was a clone of this frame available with flat side panels. I am right in assuming that this is the original EEB frame:

OEM supplier?
https://www.enduroebike.com/index.php?r ... uct_id=254

Resellers?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3234491 ... st=ae803_5
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3234660 ... st=ae803_5

Clone of the EEB/Qulbix? (the seat post and side panels are different)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E-Bike-Frame ... _FODBuKGkw
do you plan to ride any off-road or just a street bike?? all those frames that have the pedals mounted on the swing arm have poor rear suspension design for off-road.. rider standing on the swingarm becomes unsprung weight.. qulbix is also available as a mid-drive.. also have you looked at Mammoth ebike or Boxxbike ??
I have not seen either of those bikes before. If I am completely honest I do not really like any of these bulky looking frames except for the genuine Stealth B52 and F37, EBS Prime (but only with the right wheel setup) and possibly the F.U.T.R Alpha. I just think they look too large and the proportions (IMO) are often not right. One of my main goals is to increase the capacity of the battery and increase the weight of the bike (I don't like being blown around in the wind on my current aluminium 29er) so I have decided that the box style frame is the only way to go. I only really ride on the street so stability is more important than handling. The reason I would like the off road tyres and small rims is simply for aesthetics.

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   100 kW

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Re: Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Jul 01 2019 6:19pm

Darren2018 wrote:
Jul 01 2019 6:10pm
efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Jul 01 2019 4:52pm
Darren2018 wrote:
Jul 01 2019 2:13pm
efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Jul 01 2019 1:53pm
the frame is the most important part of the build so don't cheap out there.. have a look at Qulbix and other quality ebike frame options, not just another chinese copy of a copy of a copy;)
I was going to get one of the EBS Prime frames as I think it looks amazing but decided against it due to not many people having used or tested them. I was thinking that the original EEB frame would be ok (despite not looking as nice) seeing as everyone is using them. I have noticed that there was a clone of this frame available with flat side panels. I am right in assuming that this is the original EEB frame:

OEM supplier?
https://www.enduroebike.com/index.php?r ... uct_id=254

Resellers?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3234491 ... st=ae803_5
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3234660 ... st=ae803_5

Clone of the EEB/Qulbix? (the seat post and side panels are different)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E-Bike-Frame ... _FODBuKGkw
do you plan to ride any off-road or just a street bike?? all those frames that have the pedals mounted on the swing arm have poor rear suspension design for off-road.. rider standing on the swingarm becomes unsprung weight.. qulbix is also available as a mid-drive.. also have you looked at Mammoth ebike or Boxxbike ??
I have not seen either of those bikes before. If I am completely honest I do not really like any of these bulky looking frames except for the genuine Stealth B52 and F37, EBS Prime (but only with the right wheel setup) and possibly the F.U.T.R Alpha. I just think they look too large and the proportions (IMO) are often not right. One of my main goals is to increase the capacity of the battery and increase the weight of the bike (I don't like being blown around in the wind on my current aluminium 29er) so I have decided that the box style frame is the only way to go. I only really ride on the street so stability is more important than handling. The reason I would like the off road tyres and small rims is simply for aesthetics.
Futr and Prime are good choices.. if its for street use only then any of these frames should work fine.. how tall are you, many of these box ebikes are tall.. but I think Prime are available in different frame sizes??
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

Darren2018   10 W

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Re: Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

Post by Darren2018 » Jul 01 2019 6:46pm

efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Jul 01 2019 6:19pm
Darren2018 wrote:
Jul 01 2019 6:10pm
efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Jul 01 2019 4:52pm
Darren2018 wrote:
Jul 01 2019 2:13pm


I was going to get one of the EBS Prime frames as I think it looks amazing but decided against it due to not many people having used or tested them. I was thinking that the original EEB frame would be ok (despite not looking as nice) seeing as everyone is using them. I have noticed that there was a clone of this frame available with flat side panels. I am right in assuming that this is the original EEB frame:

OEM supplier?
https://www.enduroebike.com/index.php?r ... uct_id=254

Resellers?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3234491 ... st=ae803_5
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3234660 ... st=ae803_5

Clone of the EEB/Qulbix? (the seat post and side panels are different)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E-Bike-Frame ... _FODBuKGkw
do you plan to ride any off-road or just a street bike?? all those frames that have the pedals mounted on the swing arm have poor rear suspension design for off-road.. rider standing on the swingarm becomes unsprung weight.. qulbix is also available as a mid-drive.. also have you looked at Mammoth ebike or Boxxbike ??
I have not seen either of those bikes before. If I am completely honest I do not really like any of these bulky looking frames except for the genuine Stealth B52 and F37, EBS Prime (but only with the right wheel setup) and possibly the F.U.T.R Alpha. I just think they look too large and the proportions (IMO) are often not right. One of my main goals is to increase the capacity of the battery and increase the weight of the bike (I don't like being blown around in the wind on my current aluminium 29er) so I have decided that the box style frame is the only way to go. I only really ride on the street so stability is more important than handling. The reason I would like the off road tyres and small rims is simply for aesthetics.
Futr and Prime are good choices.. if its for street use only then any of these frames should work fine.. how tall are you, many of these box ebikes are tall.. but I think Prime are available in different frame sizes??
5'10" and 85KG. Support is also important which I would assume would be good from those manufactures. I have never heard of any of these frames breaking, not even those really cheap Chinese clones.

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   100 kW

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Re: Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Jul 01 2019 6:57pm

what country are you located?? try to buy close to your location as possible for least cost shipping and close by product support..
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

Post by MadRhino » Jul 01 2019 7:07pm

I am 5ft 10
My QS 205 is on a 10 yr old Trek Session 10 size L
30 mph is the coasting speed at which I leave the handlebar and look behind to see if fellows are catching up. :mrgreen:
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

markz   100 GW

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Re: Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

Post by markz » Jul 01 2019 9:16pm

Everyone seems to rave about the Trek Session bicycles.

rockstar195   100 W

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Re: Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

Post by rockstar195 » Jul 01 2019 9:28pm

Go to www.em3ev.com and don't let nobody talk you out of your Enduro EEB build.

Jonno   10 W

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Re: Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

Post by Jonno » Jul 02 2019 2:29am

I'd go along with that Rockstar195.
EM3EV are the people to go to. My frame has done 6 -8000 miles on/off road and has been 100% reliable.
I've massively overpowered it at times and it's held up well.
EEB frame, 888 forks, QS273 40h V3 , Nucular Electronics 24F controller, 84V @ 36ah 26650 cells, Vortecks 300a BMS, Hope 203mm + Regen braking

Darren2018   10 W

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Re: Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

Post by Darren2018 » Jul 02 2019 11:09am

efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Jul 01 2019 6:57pm
what country are you located?? try to buy close to your location as possible for least cost shipping and close by product support..
I am in UK. I thought about the Vector Typhoon but I have read quite a few posts where people were unhappy with the customer service and some people said the quality was not as good as the EEB version. I really like their ABS side panels and the way the bike looks in their commercial but I am worried they will not send all the correct parts or something will be damaged and they then not support you.

Darren2018   10 W

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Re: Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

Post by Darren2018 » Jul 02 2019 11:24am

MadRhino wrote:
Jul 01 2019 7:07pm
I am 5ft 10
My QS 205 is on a 10 yr old Trek Session 10 size L
30 mph is the coasting speed at which I leave the handlebar and look behind to see if fellows are catching up. :mrgreen:
What spec is your QS 205, battery and controller? I am interested to know how many wh/mile certain setups provide along with their performance. There is the 3T,4T and 5T but I have no idea what would be best for what I want to do. Obviously without deciding on a wheel size it makes it even more difficult. I wish there was some type of graph or spread sheet that had the speed and efficiency data for various wheel sizes. I have seen a simulator tool but it does not have these motors.

Darren2018   10 W

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Re: Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

Post by Darren2018 » Jul 02 2019 11:28am

Jonno wrote:
Jul 02 2019 2:29am
I'd go along with that Rockstar195.
EM3EV are the people to go to. My frame has done 6 -8000 miles on/off road and has been 100% reliable.
I've massively overpowered it at times and it's held up well.
rockstar195 wrote:
Jul 01 2019 9:28pm
Go to www.em3ev.com and don't let nobody talk you out of your Enduro EEB build.
em3ev seem to be a good all round choice!

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

Post by MadRhino » Jul 02 2019 11:46am

Darren2018 wrote:
Jul 02 2019 11:24am
MadRhino wrote:
Jul 01 2019 7:07pm
I am 5ft 10
My QS 205 is on a 10 yr old Trek Session 10 size L
30 mph is the coasting speed at which I leave the handlebar and look behind to see if fellows are catching up. :mrgreen:
What spec is your QS 205, battery and controller? I am interested to know how many wh/mile certain setups provide along with their performance. There is the 3T,4T and 5T but I have no idea what would be best for what I want to do. Obviously without deciding on a wheel size it makes it even more difficult. I wish there was some type of graph or spread sheet that had the speed and efficiency data for various wheel sizes. I have seen a simulator tool but it does not have these motors.
1.5 kw/h high C rate RC lipo, 24s2p
18 fet infineon controller, heavily mod
24" X 65mm bicycle rim laced 14Ga DT Swiss spokes w/ flange and rim washers.
3" Street hog tires, mounted tubeless with Cush Core inserts.

My 205 is a high kv but yours shouldn't, given the speed that you plan. For me, 30:is almost stopped. Your performsnce requirements would be satisfied with a MXUS 3k that is lighter.
I don't like Chinese ebike frames. The very few ebike specific frames that I like are not sold as frame set alone. 10 to 15 yr old DH racing frames US, Ger, It, are best. DH frames made in Taiwan by western compagnies are very good too. DH bikes require more work to build, but they ride so much better than Chinese frames. My Santacruz V10 dirt bike has almost 80,000 miles in 9 yrs, seen a few dozen crashes and 3 big motors, yet still riding like new.
Last edited by MadRhino on Jul 02 2019 12:11pm, edited 1 time in total.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

Darren2018   10 W

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Re: Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

Post by Darren2018 » Jul 02 2019 12:05pm

MadRhino wrote:
Jul 02 2019 11:46am
Darren2018 wrote:
Jul 02 2019 11:24am
MadRhino wrote:
Jul 01 2019 7:07pm
I am 5ft 10
My QS 205 is on a 10 yr old Trek Session 10 size L
30 mph is the coasting speed at which I leave the handlebar and look behind to see if fellows are catching up. :mrgreen:
What spec is your QS 205, battery and controller? I am interested to know how many wh/mile certain setups provide along with their performance. There is the 3T,4T and 5T but I have no idea what would be best for what I want to do. Obviously without deciding on a wheel size it makes it even more difficult. I wish there was some type of graph or spread sheet that had the speed and efficiency data for various wheel sizes. I have seen a simulator tool but it does not have these motors.
1.5 kw/h high C rate RC lipo, 24s2p
18 fet infineon controller, heavily mod
24" X 65mm bicycle rim laced 14Ga DT Swiss spokes w/ flange and rim washers.
3" Street hog tires, mounted tubeless with Cush Core inserts.
My 205 is a high kv but yours shouldn't, given the speed that you plan. For me, 30 is almost stopped. :twisted:
30mph is were I want the motor to have reasonable efficiency but I don't want it to be limited to 30mph. I plan to use the bike like an exercise bike that can also be used as a method of transport, much like my current BBSHD. Being able to pedal at 30mph is important and I can do this with my current setup (29er, 46t/11t) but I am not sure if I will be able to do this with an EEB QS 205 on 17-19" moto rims.

What KV is your motor and what is the performance like in terms of torque at certain speeds and wh/mile?

Darren2018   10 W

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Re: Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

Post by Darren2018 » Jul 02 2019 12:12pm

MadRhino wrote:
Jul 02 2019 11:46am
Darren2018 wrote:
Jul 02 2019 11:24am
MadRhino wrote:
Jul 01 2019 7:07pm
I am 5ft 10
My QS 205 is on a 10 yr old Trek Session 10 size L
30 mph is the coasting speed at which I leave the handlebar and look behind to see if fellows are catching up. :mrgreen:
What spec is your QS 205, battery and controller? I am interested to know how many wh/mile certain setups provide along with their performance. There is the 3T,4T and 5T but I have no idea what would be best for what I want to do. Obviously without deciding on a wheel size it makes it even more difficult. I wish there was some type of graph or spread sheet that had the speed and efficiency data for various wheel sizes. I have seen a simulator tool but it does not have these motors.
1.5 kw/h high C rate RC lipo, 24s2p
18 fet infineon controller, heavily mod
24" X 65mm bicycle rim laced 14Ga DT Swiss spokes w/ flange and rim washers.
3" Street hog tires, mounted tubeless with Cush Core inserts.

My 205 is a high kv but yours shouldn't, given the speed that you plan. For me, 30:is almost stopped. Your performsnce requirements would be satisfied with a MXUS 3k that is lighter.
I don't like Chinese ebike frames. The very few ebike specific frames that I like are not sold as frame set alone. 10 to 15byr old DH racing frames US, Ger, It, are best. DH frames made in Taiwan by western compagnies are very good too. DH bikes require more work to build, but they ride so much better than Chinese frames. My Santacruz V10 dirt bike has almost 80,000 miles in 9 yrs, seen a few dozen crashes and 3 big motors, yet still riding like new.
The only reason I will be using an EEB style frame is because of the cell capacity. I much prefer the DH MTB look. Handling is not really that important as long as it's not awful. My current bike is <25kg and when it's windy the bike feels seriously unstable.

Darren2018   10 W

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Re: Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

Post by Darren2018 » Jul 02 2019 12:22pm

This looks nice! [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... bV7oX3qtXQ[/youtube]

The only thing that puts me off is the possible lack customer support or QC.

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

Post by MadRhino » Jul 02 2019 12:29pm

You are crazy if you want to pedal motorcycle wheels and, if you plan some pedal input at all, you are completely in a wrong setup right now. Your requirements need to target a build in the 60 lbs, with a top speed 20% faster than your usual riding speed. Then you can think of adding some pedal input, and dream of respectable efficiency,

My bikes are useless to pedal input. Single and tuned to conveniently pedal the bike powerless. My average energy usage is 149 w/h per km.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

Darren2018   10 W

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Re: Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

Post by Darren2018 » Jul 02 2019 1:40pm

MadRhino wrote:
Jul 02 2019 12:29pm
You are crazy if you want to pedal motorcycle wheels and, if you plan some pedal input at all, you are completely in a wrong setup right now. Your requirements need to target a build in the 60 lbs, with a top speed 20% faster than your usual riding speed. Then you can think of adding some pedal input, and dream of respectable efficiency,

My bikes are useless to pedal input. Single and tuned to conveniently pedal the bike powerless. My average energy usage is 149 w/h per km.
Not really understanding the first part but did you mean that you cannot pedal your bike without power? Is this called motor drag? I can still use my current bike without any power although it does feel like riding through mud.

2WheelsMovesTheSoul   100 W

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Re: Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

Post by 2WheelsMovesTheSoul » Jul 02 2019 3:01pm

Pretty sure the OP doesn't really understand the difference going from BBSHD to a 20s QS205 at 150a.

BBSHD = 1000w = 1.34 hp
QS205, 20s (84v hot off charger) thru a Sab. 150a controller = 12,600w = 16.89 hp

Stop with this pedaling nonsense.

You are not going to add any significant power pedaling into the bike unless you are off throttle.

Darren2018   10 W

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Re: Building an EEB with a QS 205... Help needed

Post by Darren2018 » Jul 02 2019 4:08pm

2WheelsMovesTheSoul wrote:
Jul 02 2019 3:01pm
Pretty sure the OP doesn't really understand the difference going from BBSHD to a 20s QS205 at 150a.

BBSHD = 1000w = 1.34 hp
QS205, 20s (84v hot off charger) thru a Sab. 150a controller = 12,600w = 16.89 hp

Stop with this pedaling nonsense.

You are not going to add any significant power pedaling into the bike unless you are off throttle.
The BBSHD I have has been reprogrammed to 30A or 1600W from a fresh 14S pack but it is obviously still no where near 12.6kW. Pedalling is important because of the exercise not the added power. I wouldn't think twice about getting a Sur-Ron if this were not the case, the Sur-Ron is far better value and looks like a finished product rather than a pile of DIY parts bolted together but I like pedalling and I like building stuff. Power for me at least is only part of the equation, having something that does everything I want in general is more important. I am trying to find the right combination of voltage, amps, wheel size, motor winding and sprockets that will work best to achieve what I want. As I do not own a QS205 and I do not know much about motors I am hoping that someone will have built something similar so I can be guided through this process with the least amount of problems.

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