MTB with hardtail question

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MTB with hardtail question

Post by ebike11 » Jul 10 2019 8:53am

Hi guys
Could you recommend a MTB 26" that has beefier than normal dropouts and on a hardtail? I need a bike without rear shock. Just the standard triangle frame for my EM3EV triangle bag where i use to but my battery pack and other things in etc.
Something a bit beefier than stock MTB dropouts.
Thanks

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Re: MTB with hardtail question

Post by markz » Jul 10 2019 12:36pm

Anything steel/chromoly steel (common variant stylings include chrome-moly, cro-moly, CrMo, CRMO, CR-MOLY, and similar).

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Re: MTB with hardtail question

Post by flat tire » Jul 10 2019 12:51pm

You don't want a hardtail ebike. They suck hard unless you ride 10 mph.

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Re: MTB with hardtail question

Post by wturber » Jul 10 2019 1:24pm

You may find it easier to just find the bike you like and add appropriate torque arms rather than relying on a "beefy" dropout. Unless you are going to use a relatively low powered motor (500W and below) you probably want to add a torque arm or two anyway.

As markz said, look for a steel bike from a good, name brand maker to get a stronger rear dropout. An example at the low price end would be a Trek 820. And ignore flat tire. He's either speaking from ignorance, over-generalizing or both. Rear suspension can be a good thing if you have crappy roads. But a hardtail is fine if your roads are decent.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Re: MTB with hardtail question

Post by flat tire » Jul 10 2019 2:56pm

wturber wrote:
Jul 10 2019 1:24pm
But a hardtail is fine if your roads are decent.
Maybe if you're so far up your own purchase you have to justify it. Hardtails are unacceptable for anyone who can afford better and has an open mind. Even on "smooth" roads a rear suspension is nice.

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Re: MTB with hardtail question

Post by wturber » Jul 10 2019 3:15pm

flat tire wrote:
Jul 10 2019 2:56pm
wturber wrote:
Jul 10 2019 1:24pm
But a hardtail is fine if your roads are decent.
Maybe if you're so far up your own purchase you have to justify it. Hardtails are unacceptable for anyone who can afford better and has an open mind. Even on "smooth" roads a rear suspension is nice.
Buy and use what you like. Just please stop giving people incorrect information. There a loads of people happily riding hardtails at speeds well over 10 mph (I typically do 25 and have done so for about 8,500 miles now). So to simply say that they "suck hard" when going faster than 10 mph without any qualification is just incorrect. You seem rather myopic on this point. There are more things that matter regarding this than you seem willing to consider. But others consider them pretty important.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Re: MTB with hardtail question

Post by flat tire » Jul 10 2019 5:53pm

wturber wrote:
Jul 10 2019 3:15pm
blah blah blah
Rear suspension is so obviously better on a bike. The problem is it might be more complicated or expensive. Those are separate issues and if you disagree you're not using your brain. Come on wturber, I know it's in there somewhere!

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Re: MTB with hardtail question

Post by E-HP » Jul 10 2019 6:14pm

ebike11 wrote:
Jul 10 2019 8:53am
Hi guys
Could you recommend a MTB 26" that has beefier than normal dropouts and on a hardtail? I need a bike without rear shock. Just the standard triangle frame for my EM3EV triangle bag where i use to but my battery pack and other things in etc.
Something a bit beefier than stock MTB dropouts.
Thanks
Can you provide more information on how you envision the final bike to be equipped? Steel is best, but it's rare to have a steel frame for 26" wheels that are built for disc brakes, so it may require some welding.

If you want discs, the you may want to consider an aluminum frame with dropouts that allow for easy torque arm mounting. (I'm also assuming that you're going to use a hub motor).

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Re: MTB with hardtail question

Post by ebike11 » Jul 10 2019 8:31pm

E-HP wrote:
Jul 10 2019 6:14pm
ebike11 wrote:
Jul 10 2019 8:53am
Hi guys
Could you recommend a MTB 26" that has beefier than normal dropouts and on a hardtail? I need a bike without rear shock. Just the standard triangle frame for my EM3EV triangle bag where i use to but my battery pack and other things in etc.
Something a bit beefier than stock MTB dropouts.
Thanks
Can you provide more information on how you envision the final bike to be equipped? Steel is best, but it's rare to have a steel frame for 26" wheels that are built for disc brakes, so it may require some welding.

If you want discs, the you may want to consider an aluminum frame with dropouts that allow for easy torque arm mounting. (I'm also assuming that you're going to use a hub motor).
Hi there
Yes ill be try to fit a qs205 in a 26 MTB
I know its not common to do this but im gonna try.
My bike has a standard aluminum frame and i was running a Mac motor then moved up to the MXUS 3000. Surprisingly the bike ran well with the MXUS but was a tight fit. The QS205 is bit wider so looking for wider and/or stronger dropouts eventhough my dropouts are still fine from the MXUS on the aluminum frame

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Re: MTB with hardtail question

Post by ebike11 » Jul 10 2019 8:40pm

flat tire wrote:
Jul 10 2019 12:51pm
You don't want a hardtail ebike. They suck hard unless you ride 10 mph.
Hi there
I rode my hardtail with a Mac 8T and MXUS 3000 3T just fine since i live and ride on mainly flat city streets. I was going way over 10 mph. Sometimes up to 50mph with the MXUS . I dont go off roading or anything
Id love a rear suspension but I need that open triangle frame space for my packs. I also have stuff mounted on a read rack so battery pack location is very important

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Re: MTB with hardtail question

Post by Grantmac » Jul 10 2019 8:52pm

Rear suspension doesn't matter much if you are running a hub motor.

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Lenk42602   10 kW

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Re: MTB with hardtail question

Post by Lenk42602 » Jul 10 2019 8:57pm

im running a hardtail @ 35+ mph with no problems.

full suspension is not for every one. your 26" hard tail project will be fine.

we all use our brains here.

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Re: MTB with hardtail question

Post by ebike11 » Jul 10 2019 9:20pm

Lenk42602 wrote:
Jul 10 2019 8:57pm
im running a hardtail @ 35+ mph with no problems.

full suspension is not for every one. your 26" hard tail project will be fine.

we all use our brains here.
Yes i agree.
But im concerned about the width of my 26er.
Hopefully i can stretch it to fit qs205 axle.
I have torque arms but i wont be able to make custom torque arms with limited resources where im located

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Re: MTB with hardtail question

Post by wturber » Jul 10 2019 10:12pm

ebike11 wrote:
Jul 10 2019 9:20pm
Yes i agree.
But im concerned about the width of my 26er.
Hopefully i can stretch it to fit qs205 axle.
I have torque arms but i wont be able to make custom torque arms with limited resources where im located
Stretching to fit is one more reason to look at a steel bike. The steel framed bike is more tolerant of a little bending than is an aluminum frame. And steel dropouts will be stronger than aluminum ones.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Re: MTB with hardtail question

Post by ebike11 » Jul 10 2019 10:27pm

wturber wrote:
Jul 10 2019 10:12pm
ebike11 wrote:
Jul 10 2019 9:20pm
Yes i agree.
But im concerned about the width of my 26er.
Hopefully i can stretch it to fit qs205 axle.
I have torque arms but i wont be able to make custom torque arms with limited resources where im located
Stretching to fit is one more reason to look at a steel bike. The steel framed bike is more tolerant of a little bending than is an aluminum frame. And steel dropouts will be stronger than aluminum ones.
Yes I see.
I have to check my aluminum bike first and see how much width i need.
Worst cast scenario ill have to buy used local or maybe a steel frame on aliexpress? I seen a bunch on there

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Re: MTB with hardtail question

Post by E-HP » Jul 10 2019 11:13pm

https://www.randombikeparts.com/product ... gLt3_D_BwE

If you're going to use regen for rear braking, and rim brakes for emergency stops, this seems like a reasonably priced option, provided that the free shipping deal works internationally. You'd need to add P clamps for your rack.

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Re: MTB with hardtail question

Post by ebike11 » Jul 10 2019 11:41pm

E-HP wrote:
Jul 10 2019 11:13pm
https://www.randombikeparts.com/product ... gLt3_D_BwE

If you're going to use regen for rear braking, and rim brakes for emergency stops, this seems like a reasonably priced option, provided that the free shipping deal works internationally. You'd need to add P clamps for your rack.
Thanks for the link!
But im gonna try and fit disc brakes if possible

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Re: MTB with hardtail question

Post by armandd » Jul 10 2019 11:57pm

flat tire wrote:
Jul 10 2019 12:51pm
You don't want a hardtail ebike. They suck hard unless you ride 10 mph.
I ride a hard tail, often on not so smooth roads. Not a big problem, unless you have a back pain or other type of injuries. Seat post suspension like those from Zoom, Suntour or Thudbuster would also help tremendously.

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Re: MTB with hardtail question

Post by ebike11 » Jul 11 2019 7:48am

armandd wrote:
Jul 10 2019 11:57pm
flat tire wrote:
Jul 10 2019 12:51pm
You don't want a hardtail ebike. They suck hard unless you ride 10 mph.
I ride a hard tail, often on not so smooth roads. Not a big problem, unless you have a back pain or other type of injuries. Seat post suspension like those from Zoom, Suntour or Thudbuster would also help tremendously.
Yes i also use a suspension seat. Its helps

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Re: MTB with hardtail question

Post by 2old » Jul 12 2019 11:08am

E-HP wrote:
Jul 10 2019 11:13pm
https://www.randombikeparts.com/product ... gLt3_D_BwE

If you're going to use regen for rear braking, and rim brakes for emergency stops, this seems like a reasonably priced option, provided that the free shipping deal works internationally. You'd need to add P clamps for your rack.
Not to throw a monkey wrench at this frame, but make sure you know where to locate an Italian-threaded bottom bracket before you purchase.

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Re: MTB with hardtail question

Post by 2old » Jul 12 2019 11:13am

Orange County, CA's streets are maintained well and I ride fully rigid steel bikes up to 35 mph without a problem. In addition, many individuals (including myself) ride hardtails off road.

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Re: MTB with hardtail question

Post by ebike11 » Jul 12 2019 2:30pm

Ill look for a steel frame.
Im assuming all rear dropouts have the same inner width on standard factory 26inch MTBs??
If so then maybe i can cold stretch the steel a bit. Not sure if thats the right expression

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Re: MTB with hardtail question

Post by wturber » Jul 12 2019 2:59pm

ebike11 wrote:
Jul 12 2019 2:30pm
Ill look for a steel frame.
Im assuming all rear dropouts have the same inner width on standard factory 26inch MTBs??
If so then maybe i can cold stretch the steel a bit. Not sure if thats the right expression
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

ebike11   1 MW

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Re: MTB with hardtail question

Post by ebike11 » Jul 13 2019 6:11am

What do you think of this steel frame to experiment on? really cheap but if you swapped brand componants onto it then it might be ok

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3284938 ... 9a78527a75

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wturber   10 MW

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Re: MTB with hardtail question

Post by wturber » Jul 13 2019 9:31am

ebike11 wrote:
Jul 13 2019 6:11am
What do you think of this steel frame to experiment on? really cheap but if you swapped brand componants onto it then it might be ok

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3284938 ... 9a78527a75
Seems like some odd tube shapes for a steel bicycle frame. Steel frames usually use straight tubing, so I'm suspicious. OTOH, I may not be up on current steel bike frame technology.

Personally, I'd be more inclined to go with a used bike from a known manufacturer. But heck, if you go in understanding that your are experimenting, then it has more to do with your sense of adventure than anything else.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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