Ebike MTB racers, how fast are you?

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
Post Reply
flat tire   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1658
Joined: Feb 26 2014 12:20am

Ebike MTB racers, how fast are you?

Post by flat tire » Jul 25 2019 8:16pm

It's taken me a few years but compared to pro MTB riders on really difficult, technical trails avg under 15 mph I have gone from being WAY out on my times to within seconds of the all time records. The bike I've switched to is 50 lbs full suspension and only 750w. I have more powerful bikes but they are slower here. Thousands of riders have shared rides for these trails so they're pretty popular and competitive.

This is ENTIRELY about bike handling. Power will get you nothing on these trails and you will almost never see >20mph.

My questions to other fast riders:

--how did you get fast? what's your background?
--are you faster than the pro mtb racers on strava**, and how competitive is your area?
--do you ride with pedal power people and have they kicked your ass
--how do you find other fast people to ride with
--did you race lost sierra

**keep ebike rides private for now. PLEASE, Strava, add full support for ebikes. Are there really that few of us?

User avatar
dogman dan   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 34981
Joined: May 17 2008 12:53pm
Location: Las Cruces New Mexico USA

Re: Ebike MTB racers, how fast are you?

Post by dogman dan » Jul 29 2019 6:39am

Yeah, that few of us still.

Personally, I just ride as fast as I feel like crashing at, so its about 15 mph on most single track. The big boys beat me easily, even up the hills for some. Down, I just don't even compare. Its handling some, but more just that I really don't want to go over the bars into rocks and cactus at all. I just cruise 15 mph up and down the trails pretty much. My bikes could handle better, but I am quite happy with 15 mph on trails.


I could go much faster if I still felt like doing the crashes. grew up here, before the MTB trails it was our main motorcycle riding area. But the jeep roads you can take motorcycles on can be ridden a lot faster than the single track that came decades later. On the roads I limit at about 25 mph. There you are more likely to laydown than over the bars.


When I want fast, I go to the street. Mountain roads on my Suzuki are where I get my real rush, same road I used to gravity race on ten speeds 45 years ago. Emory pass to Kingston NM.

litespeed   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1372
Joined: Aug 11 2010 4:42pm
Location: St. Peters, Missouri

Re: Ebike MTB racers, how fast are you?

Post by litespeed » Jul 29 2019 11:50am

It’s funny that Dan mentions about how fast he wants to crash at.....I never put it in words before but realized I have the same philosophy. While I’m not saying it’s the quickest, fastest or best handling electric bike, my bike can peak in the mid 14kw range, top speed in the 70 mph range (never been over 65!) and has 10” rear travel and 7.5” front. I find myself rarely going over 35mph and most of the time at bike speeds of 20mph or less since I ride in the public. When in view I keep it below 28 mph on streets (legal here!) and on super rare occasions in deserted areas I’ll get to 55 to 60 mph just to be ready Incase I ever need to!

When I had off road cars and motorcycles I always had to be the fastest. Good friends and riding buddies gave me the nick name litespeed, I felt I earned it. Didn’t matter if your were racing or not.....I’d beat you! Somehow after many bumps, bruises, broken bones and scars I got over that. Someone once told me that chicks dig scars....they lied! I now ride for my fun and what feels exhilarating to me.

While not exactly what your asking I felt obligated to share. Hope your as fast as you want to be as your crashes are few.

Tom
I'm married so you know I'm no stranger to pain!

flat tire   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1658
Joined: Feb 26 2014 12:20am

Re: Ebike MTB racers, how fast are you?

Post by flat tire » Jul 29 2019 1:26pm

Thanks for the replies. Let's keep this on topic. Fast people only please. To be fast you need to not only be skilled but also willing to use those skills fully and sometimes crash. Only meeting one of the two criteria doesn't qualify.

Joe King1   10 µW

10 µW
Posts: 5
Joined: Jul 25 2019 8:23am

Re: Ebike MTB racers, how fast are you?

Post by Joe King1 » Jul 29 2019 2:58pm

I came from an MX background (top 3 local expert racer) rode Enduro bikes in the woods & have ridden mtb bikes for many years. I bought my first ebike last year with a Bosch 250w motor.

The urge for P-O-W-E-R bit me & I bought an Exess 1600w (w/throttle) 55 lb. 180mm travel bike in Feb. & at times go as fast as I can. While I don't much care about Strava times there is no doubt on this bike on anything but the tightest trails I'd smoke Nino Schurter (cross country World champ) as I spend most of the time >20mph.

I saw a video on EMBN where a 250w bike ridden by a regular Joe was 2 minutes faster than a Pro in a 15 minute loop. On my 250w bike I cut my 1.5 hour time (on a pedal bike) to 45 minutes.

Not knowing what bikes you have I think if you rode the new generation of high-powered bikes (Exess, LMX etc.) with modern geometry I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how you can use the extra power. The old mid drive conversions & hub drives are relics.

I really think you are asking the wrong question.... The better question would be is an ebike (especially a high-power one) as fast as a dirtbike in the woods?

Tommm   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 588
Joined: Apr 03 2018 2:32am

Re: Ebike MTB racers, how fast are you?

Post by Tommm » Jul 29 2019 3:14pm

Who cares about times. If I can have more fun on trails going 20mph than 30mph, I will be going 20mph all day.

flat tire   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1658
Joined: Feb 26 2014 12:20am

Re: Ebike MTB racers, how fast are you?

Post by flat tire » Jul 29 2019 3:27pm

Joe King1 wrote:
Jul 29 2019 2:58pm
The better question would be is an ebike (especially a high-power one) as fast as a dirtbike in the woods?
I think your trails are a lot more open than mine, but I wouldn't mind seeing a video of you riding. I'm sure you'd be fun to ride with. As for your question, it's simple: a sufficiently powerful ebike will be faster in extremely narrow tight areas simply as a function of wheelbase and lightness. Dirtbikes will be faster anywhere you can use the power or extra travel.

User avatar
MadRhino   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5959
Joined: Sep 03 2010 5:28pm
Location: Montreal QC Canada

Re: Ebike MTB racers, how fast are you?

Post by MadRhino » Jul 29 2019 9:20pm

The trails here are clean and fast, most of them. So the power is a neat advantage. Some sections I can climb 40 mph with a few uphill jumps. What do you think a pedalist can do... but stop and look. :twisted:

Trails and conditions are different everywhere. Here we have nice trails, but very hard weather conditions sometimes. I have built most of those trails. I could ride them if I was blind.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

Grantmac   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 544
Joined: Oct 22 2018 12:43pm
Location: Victoria, BC

Re: Ebike MTB racers, how fast are you?

Post by Grantmac » Jul 29 2019 10:42pm

Anywhere a vehicle of any sort can go 40mph isn't a trail, it's a road.

flat tire   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1658
Joined: Feb 26 2014 12:20am

Re: Ebike MTB racers, how fast are you?

Post by flat tire » Jul 30 2019 2:10am

Downhill trails often exceed 40 mph with gravity as power. Don't have those here though.

At this point I may as well ask everyone else: why don't you want to hit trails and ride fast? It's fun.

User avatar
MadRhino   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5959
Joined: Sep 03 2010 5:28pm
Location: Montreal QC Canada

Re: Ebike MTB racers, how fast are you?

Post by MadRhino » Jul 30 2019 5:56am

Grantmac wrote:
Jul 29 2019 10:42pm
Anywhere a vehicle of any sort can go 40mph isn't a trail, it's a road.
With your logic, every trail in the world should be 2ft wide with a turn every 10ft, and mountain roads would be 4ft wide hard pack with occasional drops and jumps. :D
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

User avatar
dogman dan   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 34981
Joined: May 17 2008 12:53pm
Location: Las Cruces New Mexico USA

Re: Ebike MTB racers, how fast are you?

Post by dogman dan » Jul 30 2019 7:44am

Most of the trails around here will go at 40 mph for pedalers downhill. Its just that the rocks and cactus get harsh when you crash into that stuff. Spanish dagger in particular, got its name for a reason. I'm always amazed at how fast DH riders blast through a forest. Trees will kill you easy when you hit them at 40 or 50 mph.


My problem has always been, riding just a hair beyond my skill, which is very good. But not Pro level. I had to quit riding motorcycles entirely for 30 years, or I would have died for sure. Haven't crashed the Suzuki all year so I'm doing good this season. Last year a car ran me into a ditch for a laydown.

User avatar
MadRhino   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5959
Joined: Sep 03 2010 5:28pm
Location: Montreal QC Canada

Re: Ebike MTB racers, how fast are you?

Post by MadRhino » Jul 30 2019 2:16pm

The most dangerous tree, is the one that had moved since yesterday. When you see that a tree is missing, please brake before the next turn. A lesson that I had learned painfully, long time ago :?
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

Grantmac   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 544
Joined: Oct 22 2018 12:43pm
Location: Victoria, BC

Re: Ebike MTB racers, how fast are you?

Post by Grantmac » Jul 30 2019 3:17pm

DH is a totally different ballgame.

Building an EMTB just as a "self shuttling" DH bike is very tempting I must admit and could be much lighter than one you'd expect to blast uphill at 30mph+.
However I prefer to have the power even though I'm now on a +65# bike.

Tommm   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 588
Joined: Apr 03 2018 2:32am

Re: Ebike MTB racers, how fast are you?

Post by Tommm » Jul 30 2019 4:58pm

Grantmac wrote:
Jul 30 2019 3:17pm
DH is a totally different ballgame.

Building an EMTB just as a "self shuttling" DH bike is very tempting I must admit and could be much lighter than one you'd expect to blast uphill at 30mph+.
However I prefer to have the power even though I'm now on a +65# bike.
You can have both, exactly what I'm doing cyc on a dh bike, just slap a 10 or 12s lipo on it, yea they are sub 250wh, but they are 3 lbs and you can swap them out at the trail head during the day. Comes out to same weight as a regular enduro emtb (~48lbs), just 3000w up the trail and 5000w going home with a proper compact 72v frame/backpack battery.

Grantmac   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 544
Joined: Oct 22 2018 12:43pm
Location: Victoria, BC

Re: Ebike MTB racers, how fast are you?

Post by Grantmac » Jul 30 2019 10:05pm

I'm waiting for the bugs to get worked out of the CYC, but yes it's very close to the ultimate DIY setup for the somewhat weight conscious. And it does seem to perform very well at lower cell counts while eating phase amps like a champ.
If I can get the details figured out to mount both a disk and rotor on the left side, then it might even make an idea mid-direct setup. Again low cell count for trails then high for roads.

User avatar
PaulD   100 W

100 W
Posts: 251
Joined: Aug 28 2008 5:42pm
Location: Ashland, OR, USA
Contact:

Re: Ebike MTB racers, how fast are you?

Post by PaulD » Jul 30 2019 10:43pm

flat tire wrote:
Jul 25 2019 8:16pm
--how did you get fast? what's your background?
--are you faster than the pro mtb racers on strava**, and how competitive is your area?
--do you ride with pedal power people and have they kicked your ass
--how do you find other fast people to ride with
--did you race lost sierra

**keep ebike rides private for now. PLEASE, Strava, add full support for ebikes. Are there really that few of us?
Ok, I'll bite. I ride non-e MTB regularly, so I often compare my electric vs human power times. I sometimes upload myride as private, check segment times, then switch the activity to "e-bike ride" before making it visible.

--how did you get fast? what's your background? - Raced XC for 10+ years starting when I was 15.
--are you faster than the pro mtb racers on strava**, and how competitive is your area? - On the climbs, yes. It's pretty easy to get KOMs when you have an extra 450W on tap. On the decents, I'm actually about 15 seconds slower on a 3-4 minute downhill. The extra weight is the main reason, and the power only helps if there are short pedalling sections. The trails here are either up or down, not much rolling terrain. Great trails that have enduro races every year though, so pretty competitive for a small town.
--do you ride with pedal power people and have they kicked your ass - See above. It's no fun riding with non-powered people on the climbs. They don't enjoy trying to keep up either.
--how do you find other fast people to ride with - Not many other EMTBers here. Most are 60+. And EMTB legality is a bit of a grey area here.
--did you race lost sierra - Nope. Next year! From the video, it looks to be non-techincal, but lots of corners. Speeds look low, and barely reach 30 mph. All about corner speed and acceleration!

Post Reply