Help me develop the perfect throttle

DasDouble

100 kW
Joined
Jul 12, 2015
Messages
1,240
Location
GERMANIA :D
My current job right now from my boss is to develop the perfect eBike throttle (120mm wide, full wrist). Do you have any small or big wishes you always wanted to have in a 5V eBike throttle? Like a super-smooth spring-momentum or something similar?

Cheers, Elias
 
MJSfoto1956 said:
You might want to study what these guys are doing:

https://www.motionpro.com/c/rev2-throttle

Thanks, but all they are doing is installing a variabel range for the throttle which is already possible via Kelly Controler and much more + the linearity of its response
 
DasDouble said:
Thanks, but all they are doing is installing a variabel range for the throttle which is already possible via Kelly Controler and much more + the linearity of its response

What's your list look like so far?
 
adjustable min and max positions
 
cycborg said:
Bi-directional for regen

I'll enthusiastically second this.
 
DasDouble said:
Thanks, but all they are doing is installing a variabel range for the throttle which is already possible via Kelly Controler and much more + the linearity of its response

I think that misses one key point: the "feel" of this type of throttle.
Mapping things in software only gets you so far in that regard.

M
 
Make sure it's possible to control the strength of the click, or disable completely. Otherwise there are going to be occasions where it's impossible to attain the speed you're after. E.G. when riding with somebody else, when following slower traffic, etc.
 
AHicks said:
Make sure it's possible to control the strength of the click, or disable completely. Otherwise there are going to be occasions where it's impossible to attain the speed you're after. E.G. when riding with somebody else, when following slower traffic, etc.

No idea about that, my conception is, lets say from 0 to WOT 100% there are 50 gradients. They don't need to be equal, probably want finer controls between 30% and 80% than top and bottom.

The "clicking" feedback should not make the throttling any slower than if it were continuous greyscale.

But the "intensity" or even disabling of the feature is a "would be nice" 8-D
 
NCC1941 said:
cycborg said:
Bi-directional for regen

I'll enthusiastically second this.

An enthusiastically third from me. it would need to have a shorter range of travel, though, so you can modulate it while braking at the same time. 90 degree maybe?

john61ct said:
Ability to "click" for slow & precise adjustment while cruising?
As long as this could be turned off, I see a good use for an indexing throttle, but it would drive me insane if I wasn't trying to set cruise. Throttles should be silky smooth.


I'd want a half grip option. I manhandle bicycles too much off road, and I want to be able to apply arm torque directly to the bar without twisting the throttle.
 
Don't make it bidirectional, don't make it adjustable. You could put in a click at the end for safety or regen like domino but that's not important to me. Make it full length, all metal, well built, really smooth. Probably also best to not use a pot since they wear out.

Variable regen is best done elsewhere with another control.

I would pay at least like $250 if you make a throttle that is obviously better than domino.
 
I prefer thumb throttles, but I really like the idea of variable regen. Maybe have a throttle on the right, and regen on the left?
 
Might work for riding on the street but I don't ever see a hand grip type throttle ever being useful for off-road. A thumb throttle works because it is out of the way and using a grip shifter with a half grip and detents does seem to work fine for me at least as it only will move when I want it to. My drop bar road bikes use a thumb throttle and I don't see any way of course to use a full grip throttle for those type of bars. But good luck with your project.
 
All metal construction for durability. No plastic crap.

Design to have grip portion removable, leaving the mounting ring for the grip exposed, so one can turn it into a thumb (or half grip) throttle if desired. (since it's unlikely they'd go for making those versions, and they'd sell more of them if people can use them for other than full-grip without using a hacksaw). Easy to justify because grips can become damaged in laydowns/etc. and being able to replace just that part or at least take it off easily to rework or re-cover it would be very useful.

Waterproof. Pot the insides to seal them.

Adjustable "range", to adjust the feel of the throttle for the particular application. This can be done with a couple of tiny trimpots for the top and bottom range, simply wired in series with the 5v and ground lines to the sensor (or pot) inside. A couple of rubber caps (like the Meanwell HLG series uses) can fill the access holes to these for weatherproofing.


Vectrix-like regen capability, so you reverse twist from the "off" position to brake. This will have a completely separate sensor and output, with it's own trimpots to adjust it's range/feel.



Note that it is necessary to have the trimpots, as not all controllers have ability to adjust their input ranges, and certain situations, especially mounting positions, may require a different feel or movement range. WOuld also make it usable by someone with limited wrist/etc motoin range, where a regular unadjustable throttle would not be.


There's a bunch of threads in this list
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=throttle&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=titleonly&sr=topics&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search
that discuss problems with various throttles, and solutions, that will help you, but you'll have to look thru them to find the information.
 
Search URL failed for me

googly version

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aendless-sphere.com%2Fforums%2F+throttle
 
I'm happy with a thumb throttle, but started with a half grip. Also used to ride a motorcycle, nice old '80s clunker with dell'Orto carburetors. The throttle on that old motorcycle was way better than the ebike throttle. I didn't do any real comparisons, and the motorcycle is gone, but you go out and try it yourself. I think just about any motorcycle would do, but I'd try for an old one, with carburetors and a tall first gear.
 
john61ct said:
Search URL failed for me
Dunno why, unless there's something blocked on your system? Or if you are copy/pasting the visible portion instead of clicking it?

URL (not all of it always shows in a post due to PHPBB parsing) is:
Code:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=throttle&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=titleonly&sr=topics&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

it should come up with:
Search found 1093 matches: throttle
 
donn said:
The throttle on that old motorcycle was way better than the ebike throttle.
Primarily that's because most ebike systems use a speed (PWM) throttle, not a current (torque) throttle, which is more or less what you get on an ICE. So the response is very different, especially as you get into higher power bikes.
 
amberwolf said:
Primarily that's because most ebike systems use a speed (PWM) throttle, not a current (torque) throttle, which is more or less what you get on an ICE. So the response is very different, especially as you get into higher power bikes.

Could be. Sure a lot smoother up front, I mean heaven help me if I'd had to coordinate that ebike initial surge-on with a clutch, but it also seemed like I had to rotate the ebike throttle an awful far way for a middling speed output.
 
donn said:
amberwolf said:
Primarily that's because most ebike systems use a speed (PWM) throttle, not a current (torque) throttle, which is more or less what you get on an ICE. So the response is very different, especially as you get into higher power bikes.

Could be. Sure a lot smoother up front, I mean heaven help me if I'd had to coordinate that ebike initial surge-on with a clutch, but it also seemed like I had to rotate the ebike throttle an awful far way for a middling speed output.

As far as I understood it on the german videos about it, it says "45km/h" which makes it a 50ccm scooter-like vehicle with a small number plate =>> legal, not illegal
 
Back
Top