High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
eleven6   10 W

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High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by eleven6 » Oct 06 2019 5:08pm

Chanced upon a (5 min) clip of a total idiot today

It got me thinking about the time. Watching this it's like I can almost feel the gears of the state slowly start to advance to reduce the relative freedom some of us enjoy with this hobby and use of electric bikes. Not really worth worrying about as the existence of abuse is the price of freedom, but it'll be unfortunate if and probably when our respective law-makers make new laws and law enforcement moves to take a more active role in policing electrified bicycles.

What do you think, will your society (wherever you live) tend toward holding the individual accountable for flagrant disregard for all traffic laws as we've seen above, or will they tend to blame the technology and direct their legislative efforts accordingly?

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by flat tire » Oct 06 2019 5:21pm

That is a cool video and the guy is a good rider. I gave a like.

eleven6   10 W

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by eleven6 » Oct 06 2019 5:57pm

Lol, touché.

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by wturber » Oct 06 2019 7:17pm

eleven6 wrote:
Oct 06 2019 5:08pm

What do you think, will your society (wherever you live) tend toward holding the individual accountable for flagrant disregard for all traffic laws as we've seen above, or will they tend to blame the technology and direct their legislative efforts accordingly?
If legislators treat that as the norm, then they aren't very good legislators. There is no call for any special regulation here. This is just a matter for the local cops and should be well covered by existing traffic laws. He's more likely to hurt himself than someone else.
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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by dustNbone » Oct 06 2019 7:37pm

Yeah I don't see anything especially dangerous to the public at large there. He's even using a deadman strap!

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by MadRhino » Oct 06 2019 8:01pm

Yep. The guy is not going to hurt anyone. I don’t know the law where he is, but many places he would be OK, even if he is taking chances passing cars a tad too close IMO. Here it is forbidden sharing lane. I am riding much safer, yet often faster. I find much more stupid running red lights on a slow bike, and I see many of those every day.

Anyway, riders are safe to others. They risk their own bones. The law should be more concerned about those who are risking the life of others on the road.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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eleven6   10 W

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by eleven6 » Oct 06 2019 8:46pm

MadRhino wrote:
Oct 06 2019 8:01pm
Yep. The guy is not going to hurt anyone. I don’t know the law where he is, but many places he would be OK, even if he is taking chances passing cars a tad too close IMO. Here it is forbidden sharing lane. I am riding much safer, yet often faster. I find much more stupid running red lights on a slow bike, and I see many of those every day.

Anyway, riders are safe to others. They risk their own bones. The law should be more concerned about those who are risking the life of others on the road.
All true, and perhaps I was a little harsh in judgment, especially considering I don't know the local laws and I can't tell the speed all of the passes occur. Still had a negative reaction though, like you shouldn't bring attention to or promote aggressive motorcycle riding whilst in traffic, but maybe that's an irrational fear. Sounds like most who commented aren't concerned with any rule changes in the near future, so that's actually kind of heartening to hear. I've only been riding with a mid-power bike since 2015 and it's been smooth sailing so far so it's good to hear others are mostly unconcerned with any type of public reaction to the clip or ones like it.

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by john61ct » Oct 06 2019 9:24pm

I agree the bloke's a twat and not doing "the cause" any favours.

Not going to get worked up though, total surveillance and control is inevitable anyway, so it comes sooner rather than later who cares

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by E-HP » Oct 06 2019 10:05pm

There was only one spot that personally I would have rather had more power on tap, but otherwise, the bike seemed to have enough power to do most of those maneuvers safely.

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by donn » Oct 06 2019 11:26pm

eleven6 wrote:
Oct 06 2019 8:46pm
Sounds like most who commented aren't concerned with any rule changes in the near future, so that's actually kind of heartening to hear.
You have to consider the crowd.

Who expects legislation to be based on what we think is sensible?

Even "our" advocacy organizations, if PeopleForBikes qualifies, propose to legally limit electric bicycles to 750W, in the model legislation that they and the manufacturers endorse that has been adopted by several states. If you ask us, I think the general verdict is "not sensible." But your average legislator is going to want to know, if we saddle motor scooters with all these regulatory requirements, at what point does this unlimited category of electric bicycle cross over with motor scooters? That's just an example. They're going to see something like this guy, and say "holy mackerel, I didn't know this was going on, maybe we'd better take a look while there's still just a few early adopters doing it."

Yeah, there could be consequences. What I think is funny - that's England? where the story as I've heard it is that bicycles are limited to something awfully feeble like 250W.

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by john61ct » Oct 07 2019 10:42am

What are the consequences?

In NYC they confiscate the bike, sell it off at auction.

In addition to other penalties if being a dick like this guy.

Pretty stupid to film it if it can be traced back to you.

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by HK12K » Oct 07 2019 11:17am

Every time I read a an article about someone receiving a ticket on an ebike or scooter around here I find there is a growing consensus among commenters that we should be required to have licenses, registration, insurance, and be completely barred from multi use paths and bike lanes. In fact a surprising number of people seem to be calling for cyclists in general to be licensed, their bikes registered and insured. Seriously. I was stunned, but they're out there and they're speaking up more frequently.

That's not a future I want to see, so I'd rather not give the vocal dissidents any more ammo.

That said this wasn't filmed anywhere around here. If he's located in the land of 250w pedalecs I can only assume that this guys bike was either illegal the instant he rolled out of his driveway or it has plates and at worst we saw a couple of moving violations. Either way the powers that be already have their boots on the throat of the situation over there. He probably can't make things any worse for anyone other than himself, unless he hits someone or something.

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E-HP   10 kW

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by E-HP » Oct 07 2019 12:18pm

john61ct wrote:
Oct 07 2019 10:42am
What are the consequences?

In NYC they confiscate the bike, sell it off at auction.

In addition to other penalties if being a dick like this guy.

Pretty stupid to film it if it can be traced back to you.
Most of the maneuvers are legal on a motorcycle where I live, with the exception of riding on the painted cross hatched part of the street, which is considered a curb/island/divider and illegal to ride on, and where he followed the right turn lane to the end then cut into traffic. The lane splitting/sharing is subjective when it comes to the law, and I've split lanes at much higher speeds in the past, and followed highway patrol bikes splitting lanes at higher speeds than his ebike.
Last edited by E-HP on Oct 07 2019 12:19pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by john61ct » Oct 07 2019 12:19pm

Getting yourself killed while getting your rocks off will likely traumatize the driver(s) involved, even if they are blameless.

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by MadRhino » Oct 07 2019 12:41pm

john61ct wrote:
Oct 07 2019 12:19pm
Getting yourself killed while getting your rocks off will likely traumatize the driver(s) involved, even if they are blameless.
Ha ha!
Here the poor driver who ran over a rider, has right of free psychological services and paid vacation, no matter his responsibility.

The rider’s wife an/or mother has right to a monthly percentage of the rider’s earnings, no matter his responsibility.

Everyone on the street is insured, no matter if legal or not. They call it ‘no fault’. Healthcare are free for all.

Of course they need the money for that, thus taxes are high for everyone, no matter their responsibility. :wink:
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john61ct   10 MW

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by john61ct » Oct 07 2019 12:46pm

I was talking about morality not money.

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by LipoRider » Oct 07 2019 4:49pm

MadRhino wrote:
Oct 06 2019 8:01pm
Yep. The guy is not going to hurt anyone. I don’t know the law where he is, but many places he would be OK, even if he is taking chances passing cars a tad too close IMO. Here it is forbidden sharing lane. I am riding much safer, yet often faster. I find much more stupid running red lights on a slow bike, and I see many of those every day.

Anyway, riders are safe to others. They risk their own bones. The law should be more concerned about those who are risking the life of others on the road.
I agree our bikes (including fast 120lbs e-bikes) would only dent a car's panels or break a light. Maybe even smash a windshield. Automobiles have nothing much to worry about fast e-bikes. On the other hand, pedestrians could be hurt a lot. At those 45+mph speeds and combined weight of rider and bicycle, it could hit a pedestrian with strong enough force to break bones easily or kill them. Then come the law suits for damages and injuries.

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by khorse » Oct 07 2019 8:25pm

This video is in England, where an unregistered ebike is supposed to only have 250W but in practice this is not enforced. ICE bikes are extremely heavily policed due to noise and anti-social image, but the police really couldn't give two shits if it looks reasonably like a mountain bike and is silent.

As for his actual riding he doesn't signal turns and is probably speeding but he's not doing much actually unlawful beyond that.

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by Ianhill » Oct 07 2019 9:17pm

6 penalty points on your driving licence if u have one and if not the law will apply it when if passed so one wrong move first 2 years license is gone plus a hefty fine can be four figures as well as recovery costs to boot so stay off the roads when at 40mph + speed in uk, cops ain't to bothered at the moment but there's always one jobs worth wanting to tongue the slippery poo ladder.

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by john61ct » Oct 07 2019 10:59pm

I think this sort of stuff should be strictly enforced, people's health & safety vs adrenaline rush junkie's funtimes.

Find a spot no regular traffic if you need that rush, not recklessly weaving in and out people just calmly going about their business.

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by LeftieBiker » Oct 07 2019 11:22pm

The dangerous, stupid lane changes alone (and I don't see a mirror or signs that he's even looking first) make him a dangerous idiot.

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by khorse » Oct 08 2019 12:14am

Ianhill wrote:
Oct 07 2019 9:17pm
6 penalty points on your driving licence if u have one and if not the law will apply it when if passed so one wrong move first 2 years license is gone plus a hefty fine can be four figures as well as recovery costs to boot so stay off the roads when at 40mph + speed in uk, cops ain't to bothered at the moment but there's always one jobs worth wanting to tongue the slippery poo ladder.
Coppers will start taking notice of electrics as soon as they become as cheap and common as a 125 scrambler. Right now building a fast 60mph ebike puts you in like 1 in a million and you don't look the same at all.

People have no preconceived notions of fast ebikes, ride everywhere on a 2 stroke kawa with a loud exhaust and you're a chav causing trouble, people phone police honk at you try and cut you up every chance, even if you're following highway code.

Go around everywhere pretending to pedal an e-mtb at 40mph and people are just happy to see a push bike that they can't blame for being slow. Whenever someone has something to say they're only ever curious. Go flying off beating the dominos pizza scooter and they're impressed not angry.

When every 16 year old on a council estate can afford one then it'll change but for now enjoy it while it lasts.

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by MadRhino » Oct 08 2019 6:31am

When I built my first, I said we should have ten years before the police start enforcing ebike laws. I was wrong. They still enforce traffic laws, thus powerful ebikes are treated exactly the same as legal ebikes. I find it is a good thing. Rule the behavior, not the power.

Here this guy would have troubles because of lane sharing and passing without signaling his intention, like anyone else doing the same. Yet, all riders in the world have another law to care for: Darwin’s law.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by fosworld1 » Oct 08 2019 7:38am

Mr Toad goes electric!



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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by mystryda » Oct 12 2019 6:58pm

fosworld1 wrote:
Oct 08 2019 7:38am
Mr Toad goes electric!
Too true. It seems like guy would be a jerk on the road no matter what the vehicle: ebike, pedal bike, truck, motorcycle.

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