UK Law regarding E-Bikes

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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tonywestonuk   1 µW

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UK Law regarding E-Bikes

Post by tonywestonuk » Nov 10 2019 6:02am

After doing a fair amount of research in regards to if I will be able to ride my new Rad Rhino on UK roads, I have come to the conclusion I will be able to. This is based on the current guidelines which say L1E-A bikes are allowed on the road without registration. I have put together a flowchart - agree? disagree?
EBike rules.png
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Tommm   100 kW

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Re: UK Law regarding E-Bikes

Post by Tommm » Nov 10 2019 6:42am

Incomplete. Look up MSVA.

tonywestonuk   1 µW

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Re: UK Law regarding E-Bikes

Post by tonywestonuk » Nov 10 2019 6:47am

Tommm wrote:
Nov 10 2019 6:42am
Incomplete. Look up MSVA.
So, this would provide an avenue for those e-bikes found to be not legal, to become legal. Ie, those that hit the 'No' box on the left?

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Re: UK Law regarding E-Bikes

Post by Tommm » Nov 10 2019 2:17pm

tonywestonuk wrote:
Nov 10 2019 6:47am
Tommm wrote:
Nov 10 2019 6:42am
Incomplete. Look up MSVA.
So, this would provide an avenue for those e-bikes found to be not legal, to become legal. Ie, those that hit the 'No' box on the left?
Yes, it is a cheap but labouros process. There is anecdotal evidence of a few people doing it, some even here on ES.

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: UK Law regarding E-Bikes

Post by John in CR » Nov 11 2019 8:23pm

I'd never live there with those ridiculous laws written with the help of hard core cyclists. The law here is above 5000W electric motor output makes it a motorcycle, and under 5kw output makes it a moto-bici, that is legal to operate. No license, no registration, no inspection, no silly pedal requirements, much less that you must pedal to go. Simply wear a helmet, have lights at night along with reflective gear, and obey the posted traffic rules. IOW, be responsible for yourself instead of being regulated to death.

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Re: UK Law regarding E-Bikes

Post by goatman » Nov 11 2019 10:10pm

if you look up Vortecks on youtube you can run 5000 watts as long as you put a, Bosch 250 watt, sticker on your motor. hes in the UK

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goosenoose   100 mW

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Re: UK Law regarding E-Bikes

Post by goosenoose » Nov 12 2019 7:58am

I'm interested in the process. I just moved to North London and have a 52v 1500w PAS only dd conversion cargo bike. Watching thread here...

Robin

Tommm   100 kW

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Re: UK Law regarding E-Bikes

Post by Tommm » Nov 12 2019 8:42am

Keep it looking like a bike and they won't bother you. Battery box, triple clamp fork, big hub motor, elaborate mid drive with big reductions raise your profile. So does motorcycle helmet/gear and going fast or running reds.
I commuted one season so far, past 20 cops and am fine. I wouldn't stop if they tried though, not letting some monkeys steal my stuff.

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Re: UK Law regarding E-Bikes

Post by John in CR » Nov 12 2019 8:51am

Tommm wrote:
Nov 12 2019 8:42am
I wouldn't stop if they tried though, not letting some monkeys steal my stuff.
Can you get away with refusing to stop for police there?

andy1956   10 mW

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Re: UK Law regarding E-Bikes

Post by andy1956 » Nov 12 2019 8:54am

goosenoose wrote:
Nov 12 2019 7:58am
I'm interested in the process. I just moved to North London and have a 52v 1500w PAS only dd conversion cargo bike. Watching thread here...

Robin
I have been riding ebikes here for over 5 years,all of them above 250w,the present one is 1500w capable of 2000w bursts. Te The police here have no interest in ebikes that look like peddle cycles at all,as long as you obey the rules of the road you will be fine,to my knowledge there has never been a prosecution in this country for illegal ebike use.Just remove any stickers saying it is 1500w.

Tommm   100 kW

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Re: UK Law regarding E-Bikes

Post by Tommm » Nov 12 2019 8:54am

John in CR wrote:
Nov 12 2019 8:51am
Tommm wrote:
Nov 12 2019 8:42am
I wouldn't stop if they tried though, not letting some monkeys steal my stuff.
Can you get away with refusing to stop for police there?
No license plate to speak of.
They routinely get fired/sued if they cause someone harm (including the suspect), even if they are in a chase. So they are not exactly inclined to take risks on small issues.

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wturber   10 MW

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Re: UK Law regarding E-Bikes

Post by wturber » Nov 12 2019 12:18pm

John in CR wrote:
Nov 11 2019 8:23pm
I'd never live there with those ridiculous laws written with the help of hard core cyclists. The law here is above 5000W electric motor output makes it a motorcycle, and under 5kw output makes it a moto-bici, that is legal to operate. No license, no registration, no inspection, no silly pedal requirements, much less that you must pedal to go. Simply wear a helmet, have lights at night along with reflective gear, and obey the posted traffic rules. IOW, be responsible for yourself instead of being regulated to death.
Fair enough. But your odds of getting killed in a traffic accident (on a population basis) are about five times greater in Costa Rica than in the UK . Pick yer poison.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

markz   100 GW

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Re: UK Law regarding E-Bikes

Post by markz » Nov 12 2019 7:15pm

If you get caught with an ebike that is 255W, they cuff and stuff you and sent off to prison.
Then at the cop shop, your uncuffed, transported to the penal colony where your stuffed again while locked up.
Just kidding.

If you ride responsibly, and are courteous, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with a 1500W motor kit, like the Leafbike/Leafmotor. That is what I'd do myself because there are a million other laws that are far worse for safety then a responsible courteous ebike rider wanting to haul 500lbs of groceries, or 350lb obese dude, or 100lb stick figure.

If your still scared of the cops, then a simple 500W motor kit, with a 250W holographic sticker, or 250W punched into the cover plate is sufficient enough.

Look, I doubt while driving a vehicle you even do a complete stop at a red light or stop sign, yet you can kill someone easily. 90% of the people driving, while they are turning right, they only look left. That is a north american style road system, uk drive on the opposite side, but I bet its the exact same thing across the pond.
Tailgating, not stopping for a school bus is quite common too.

I dont know why people are so scared of going like 300W, or 251W like it really means something.
Its a nothing burger!

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Re: UK Law regarding E-Bikes

Post by John in CR » Nov 12 2019 8:30pm

wturber wrote:
Nov 12 2019 12:18pm
Fair enough. But your odds of getting killed in a traffic accident (on a population basis) are about five times greater in Costa Rica than in the UK . Pick yer poison.
The way I ride the odds are so close to zero that any stats you looked up don't apply no matter what vehicle I'm operating.

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wturber   10 MW

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Re: UK Law regarding E-Bikes

Post by wturber » Nov 12 2019 10:53pm

John in CR wrote:
Nov 12 2019 8:30pm
wturber wrote:
Nov 12 2019 12:18pm
Fair enough. But your odds of getting killed in a traffic accident (on a population basis) are about five times greater in Costa Rica than in the UK . Pick yer poison.
The way I ride the odds are so close to zero that any stats you looked up don't apply no matter what vehicle I'm operating.
The point wasn't your riding or your opinion of your riding. The point was that the UK laws may not be so ridiculous given that they seem to be part of a situation where significantly fewer people die each year and that the Costa Rican laws, while certainly allowing greater freedom, perhaps also increase the odds that people will use that freedom a bit more recklessly. That said, I'm aware that there are loads of other factors involved. Maybe Costa Ricans drive/ride many more miles each year compared to those in the UK.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

Tommm   100 kW

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Re: UK Law regarding E-Bikes

Post by Tommm » Nov 13 2019 3:53am

The thing hurting costa rica is the no license requirement, not the no type approval or other bureaucracy. We have license+insurance requirement in a few EU countries (still no reg, no type approval) and the incident rates are very, very low.

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: UK Law regarding E-Bikes

Post by John in CR » Nov 13 2019 6:23pm

Tommm wrote:
Nov 13 2019 3:53am
The thing hurting costa rica is the no license requirement, not the no type approval or other bureaucracy. We have license+insurance requirement in a few EU countries (still no reg, no type approval) and the incident rates are very, very low.
12 years and I haven't seen another homebuilt that I wasn't involved with. There are electrics though, and almost none defined as emotos by the law. Every one I've seen has been plated and inspected, and to ride those requires a license with moto endorsement. Registered vehicles all have basic liability insurance as part of their annual fee, and since they're right across the street I've done some stuff with the national insurance company regarding coverage for non-registered electrics and expect something soon.

Those riding electrics here are opting for the plated route, except for those riding the low powered stuff legal as ebikes in much of the world. Those have limited usefulness and are much more dangerous mixing with cars, since bike lanes are limited.

The only thing I wish they'd change here is to repeal the helmet law, including for motorcycles. It was discussed in the legislature a few years ago but didn't pass. They noted that the only significant change resulting from making helmets mandatory was that it increased the number of human vegetables requiring care by the state.

As part of the push for the country to become carbon neutral in the next couple of years there is a push for electrics. Along with tax incentives, the transit police have been directed to be very hands off regarding ebikes and emotos, as long as they aren't being operated in a manner endangering others.

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