Quality Programmable Sine Wave Controller?

Ok, so am not looking for one for myself, am a business and have a problem with the ones I tested so far.

Kelly and Sabvoton - Pure crap, especially Sabvoton with terrible reliability issues and zero customer service, both have the slowest acceleration on the planet that I can see objects standing still passing me.

Yuyangking - Pure garbage, terrible acceleration, horrible lag keeping throttle on for a sec after releasing the throttle and the worst app ever, not to mention they are bigger than my refrigerator.

ASI - Well, it started as OMG they are the gods of the ebike controllers since when they are dialed right they are amazing BUT! and a big BUT! Setting them up takes forever with the most complex and horrible interface ever and of course they don't have a manual for nothing, all the settings are mega weird and not self explanatory at all, the support you get is from this Alan Hu guy from facebook who don't give a crap about you and after you buy $5000 worth of controllers he will act like a chinese supplier "yes yes come back 2 weeks me busy."
Plus, the harnesses are built by this guy and ASI themselves told me that he is the only one building them and they always have contacts falling apart and the cheapest chinese level work.
AND recently I've had a good friend have 3 BAC4000 controllers burn for no reason, flicking the switch and no power all of a sudden and this mystery is very concerning since he has to wait 3 month for ASI to check it and of course pay shipping to canada.
Bottom line, I tried to tolerate the fact that they are very expensive to make a profit for but I won't ever work with them as a business since they are too complex, no manual, no support, the warranty procedure ensures that you get your issue fixed a little before you die of old age and you get crap harnesses that cause never ending problems and you can't build one yourself as it's not some common connector you just crimp.

Then came Nucular - Already spent all of your attention reading about ASI so am gonna spare you some time by just summing it up.
GOD OF ALL EBIKE CONTROLLERS AND IF YOU SAY ONE BAD WORD ABOUT THEM YOU WILL HAVE BAD THINGS COME INTO YOUR LIFE!
Yes, that good.
BUT! unfortunately, even more expensive than ASI, especially because they don't have an app but an LCD which adds $70 more to the price tag of over $400 for the 24Fet version which is the only one I need for my market.
That means, $400+70+shipping+import tax+adding tax for selling it locally = No one will buy it for that price.

So...
Any ideas?

btw, also looking for non programmable simple sinewave controllers up to 55A with acceptable acceleration for my more simple market.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=95969

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=87870

No experience myself with these controllers but read the threads and see if they could work for you.

Another vote for the KT based controllers. Multiple display options and open source code if you don't like the way they come (though I think most will find the OEM program more than enough....)

http://powervelocity.com/ is also an option.

Thanks for all the recommendations guys!
Forgot to mention Adaptto - Never tested them but they look amazing inside BUT (again this 'but') it isn't suitable for a business as the mid size one is $635 which is crazy.

PowerVelocity - They look nice but the price for the 150A is $400 while this is almost the price of the Nucular that is a third of the size and can put out more than double that power.

Votol - The QS page says that it works only with their 138 model mid drive motor, plus it looks like an ancient crappy Sabvoton with the horrible half Chinese software...

KT - They don't have high power versions (max 5kw that is as long as my bike) but I did mention that I'm looking for a controller to fill my mid to low strength controller market, BUT I always had feelings of hate towards them as I've had a few KT controllers a few years ago with the LCD3 that had an annoying lag in acceleration, the power was coming half a second to a second after you hit the throttle, not to mention that all sign wave controllers (except for ASI and Nucular) are set to have super gradual horrible acceleration, but I noticed in the mentioned thread that they have programming and was wandering how the programming is done, do they have a usb port now? any info on the acceleration situation? what about high powered versions? can they customize them for 100A+?

VESC, especially the community hardware.
Here in the forum someone is building the "serious focer" and there's also BESC and lots of others.
Then all the chinese VESC6 based ones like FOCBOX, FSESC, ...

Open source hardware and software.

Re: slow throttle response, I've had several of the 12 fet 35a models, and none have had anything I would call a delay. Currently have 2, one on a direct drive 1500w hub, and the second on a MAC 12t. Both doing a nice job. In my experience, working on a bucks spent for bang received, they're a pretty good buy.

And agreed, they are not the most compact available.

Um.. sounds like you want a Nucular with Bluetooth (unicorn) which doesn't exist AFAIK.
You need to be able to compromise on some things if you want cheap e.g. more expensive, larger size, chinglish manuals etc.

Believe if we knew of a controller in that price range and with Nucular specs we wouldn't be buying anything else.

BotoXbz said:

VESC, especially the community hardware.
Here in the forum someone is building the "serious focer" and there's also BESC and lots of others.
Then all the chinese VESC6 based ones like FOCBOX, FSESC, ...

Open source hardware and software.

Click to expand...

I see most of them are up to 60V...
Do you know of any finished product (not projects involving assembly) that goes up to 84V or even 100v?
Also, what about sensor connection? It needs to power a direct drive brushless hub motor...

eee291 said:

Um.. sounds like you want a Nucular with Bluetooth (unicorn) which doesn't exist AFAIK.
You need to be able to compromise on some things if you want cheap e.g. more expensive, larger size, chinglish manuals etc.

Believe if we knew of a controller in that price range and with Nucular specs we wouldn't be buying anything else.

Click to expand...

Even without the display it wouldn't be affordable enough to make an acceptable profit.
I was just wandering if there is a controller that I don't know of that is strong, works great and not too expensive.
I don't mind if it's not as small as Nucular, but if there is something at half that price that works well then great but I wouldn't pay $300-$400 for a lame Sabvoton or Kelly which accelerate horrible and just ruin the whole bike.

Easiest right now are KT controller. Readily available and the open source firmware works great. Major drawback is the rather weak chip which limits ERPM so no true FOC.

Stancecoke wrote an open source firmware for lishui controllers: (german only) https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index.php?threads/open-source-firmware-f%C3%BCr-lishui-controller.61113/
The firmware is still in alpha but it can do sensorless FOC.
You have to look for an STM32 chipped lishui controller though and since the manufacturers only deals with OEM companies, they are hard to come by.

And finally Shaman is working on a VESC 6.0 compatible budget controller: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=99152

qwerkus said:

Easiest right now are KT controller. Readily available and the open source firmware works great. Major drawback is the rather weak chip which limits ERPM so no true FOC.

Stancecoke wrote an open source firmware for lishui controllers: (german only) https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index.php?threads/open-source-firmware-f%C3%BCr-lishui-controller.61113/
The firmware is still in alpha but it can do sensorless FOC.
You have to look for an STM32 chipped lishui controller though and since the manufacturers only deals with OEM companies, they are hard to come by.

And finally Shaman is working on a VESC 6.0 compatible budget controller: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=99152

Click to expand...

Can't find much about Lishui, nothing for big controllers anyway so will let that go.

That Serious Focer looks amazing but it's not a product I can just order and I don't have the time to order boms and do/pay for soldering, casing...

What about Lyen? are they Sine/FOC?

I had read about the slow Kellys when I was selecting one for a motorbike project, but there was very little off the shelf that was sine wave and could cope with 144v at any reasonable current.

I did read a few threads that said playing with throttle ramp can improve it, as the default setting is very conservative, but even the most aggressive setting wasn't ideal. Some threads confirmed that it is definitely a software issue, not a hardware capability issue, because if you did a 5km/h rolling start, then went full throttle, it'd take off like you expected. Unfortunately unless someone hacks the firmware, that isn't worth much to anyone.

Mine isn't in a working state yet, but once it is, I am looking forward to tinkering with that setting, possibly even some firmware tinkering if I can.

Sunder said:

I had read about the slow Kellys when I was selecting one for a motorbike project, but there was very little off the shelf that was sine wave and could cope with 144v at any reasonable current.

I did read a few threads that said playing with throttle ramp can improve it, as the default setting is very conservative, but even the most aggressive setting wasn't ideal. Some threads confirmed that it is definitely a software issue, not a hardware capability issue, because if you did a 5km/h rolling start, then went full throttle, it'd take off like you expected. Unfortunately unless someone hacks the firmware, that isn't worth much to anyone.

Mine isn't in a working state yet, but once it is, I am looking forward to tinkering with that setting, possibly even some firmware tinkering if I can.

Click to expand...

Finally someone agrees with me that it's a horrible ride with those things.
If you manage to hack it please keep us updated

I was planning on buying a Kelly one day, but I will skip that.

Didnt Adappto stop making controllers?

Where are the usual getting spots for the KT in the 36V 35-45A range?
bmsb only has 800W

Recommend the votol controllers. Cheap, high output and reliable so far for me.

Tried:
1 powervelocity ( my controller had several quality issues and died at a stop light)
2 adapttos (water in one, one exploded)
5 kellys (Totally agree on the slow crap part)
1 lyen (fun until it died)
2 KT (Low powered but worked)
1 APT (died from programming)

The votol em72150 is the best so far. I have used it with the QS mid drive but can’t see why it would not work with other motors, haven’t seen any users having such issues either. It’s worth a try.

Link to these Votol Controllers ?

Does the link describe them in detail ?
or
Is there a thread somewhere that has all the details on specs , real world testing , etc ?

Looking for a new affordable controller myself , that will also have the Cycle Analyst plug for direct plug into the series of C.A.'s
for my 3000 watt mid-drive that will go up to 18-20 s battery pack and at least 50 amps continuously .


quote=larsb post_id=1517821 time=1577275292 user_id=41034]
Recommend the votol controllers. Cheap, high output and reliable so far for me.

The votol em72150 is the best so far. I have used it with the QS mid drive but can’t see why it would not work with other motors, haven’t seen any users having such issues either. It’s worth a try.
[/quote]

ScooterMan101 said:

Link to these Votol Controllers ?

Does the link describe them in detail ?
or
Is there a thread somewhere that has all the details on specs , real world testing , etc ?

Click to expand...

See the first link in my first post in this thread...

Woha ! , a 19 page tread with up to 25 posts on each page , over 400 posts to read !?!

For the many of us that have a few seconds attention threshold ...
Is there a website with one or two pages which describes this controller , it's spec's and price and shipping cost ?

It’s painful to be lazy, i know..
Unfortunately the info on QS motor site where they are bought is poor.

You can get the spec sheets here:
http://www.votol.net/wap/en-us/controller.html

Peak current=phase current
The others are battery current.

Prices are in the Votol thread, paid about 210usd or so for em72150 controller if i remember correctly.
Ask carrie@tzquanshun.com for the latest price.

They are unlocked, i am currently running my 72150 controller at 250A battery and 380A phase for about 15000km. Road driving, occasional high power useage (same for all the dead controllers i mentioned)

larsb said:

It’s painful to be lazy, i know..
Unfortunately the info on QS motor site where they are bought is poor.

You can get the spec sheets here:
http://www.votol.net/wap/en-us/controller.html

Peak current=phase current
The others are battery current.

Prices are in the Votol thread, paid about 210usd or so for em72150 controller if i remember correctly.
Ask carrie@tzquanshun.com for the latest price.

They are unlocked, i am currently running my 72150 controller at 250A battery and 380A phase for about 15000km. Road driving, occasional high power useage (same for all the dead controllers i mentioned)

Click to expand...

How is the acceleration that's all I wanna know...

Check this out:
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...ml?spm=a2700.icbuShop.41413.16.18bc5e81fGk6M9

A friend of mine just ordered one, they are not programmable but have 3 modes for current and the ones that has the name "violence on" in their model name seem promising!
They claim it's FOC and the 150A battery current version is only $200 so it seems to have potential

After reading over 25 posts I had enough . ADD is different from Laziness .

Thanks for the link , seeing the picture/diagram of it shows a controller completely different from the typical infineon clone controllers
I have hooked up to motors and throttles , CA in the past , in regards to connectors .

Are you using a Cycle Analyst with it ? or other Display where you can change each day the LVC and max amps ?
( I have different size lipo packs that I use )

Does it come with the plugs that plug into it , and do they have pig tails ?

Did you get the 72v , or 96v , or 108 volt one ?

@rg12:Haven’t seen anything good on yuyangking controllers. It’s also weaker than the Votol. And i can bet you a pizza it’s a simulated sinewave controller, not FOC. (Just like the votol)

@scooterman:
I don’t like subjective guesswork but onset is strong.
My butt says that acceleration is double compared to kelly or adaptto :wink:

It doesn’t come with the mating connectors. If you’re looking for a throttle then QS has a matched trottle and buttons kit that looks OK, called ”Z6”

I use the 72V controller (highest power output), changing parameters with a chinese tablet.

larsb said:

@rg12:Haven’t seen anything good on yuyangking controllers. It’s also weaker than the Votol. And i can bet you a pizza it’s a simulated sinewave controller, not FOC. (Just like the votol)

@scooterman:
I don’t like subjective guesswork but onset is strong.
My butt says that acceleration is double compared to kelly or adaptto :wink:

It doesn’t come with the mating connectors. If you’re looking for a throttle then QS has a matched trottle and buttons kit that looks OK, called ”Z6”

I use the 72V controller (highest power output), changing parameters with a chinese tablet.

Click to expand...

I was wandering by the model codes YM that it may be Yuyangking, are you sure it's made by them?
Even if so, it seems like a different breed than those huge refrigerator sized shitty Yuyangking controllers with that horrible app of theirs.

About the acceleration you talked about, were you referring to the Votol? does Adaptto has the weak acceleration like Kelly?

Pretty sure it’s yuyangking..


And yes, adaptto is known for their weak onset, and explosions too. There are many adapttos here that went the same way..