fast charging through phaserunner

John in CR was talking about fast charging through a phase wire and using the nucular controller to regulate the charge. then I found this

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&p=1530375#p1529014

does this mean I can do the same with a phaserunner using the regen settings and if so does that mean I could use a j1772 connector at a charge point to fast charge my ebike?

https://www.evseadapters.com/products/j1772-to-c-13-adapter-for-electric-motorcycle-scooter/

I probably need something between the j1772 and the phasewire but ive never been to a charge point

The j1772 charge stations provide 240v ac. The Nuc (and the Adaptto) both require an external dc power supply which converts ac voltage to dc. I use an Eaton server PSU which puts out 53vdc up to around 30 amps or so to deliver 1800w max when supplied with 240. The controllers themselves take that 53vdc, boost it, and charge the pack to whatever voltage you've set it to.

As for whether the phaserunner can do this, I have no idea, but if you have a charger that can run on 240v you can use a j1772 adapter and charging station.

thanks, I found this thing 240ac 72v dc 30 amps, im 17s 71.4v, doesn't look big or too heavy. ill keep looking. they have 60v and 48v but everythings sold out.

https://www.daygreen.com/products/220v-ac-to-72v-30a-ac-dc-battery-charger-isolated

goatman said:

thanks, I found this thing 240ac 72v dc 30 amps, im 17s 71.4v, doesn't look big or too heavy. ill keep looking. they have 60v and 48v but everythings sold out.

https://www.daygreen.com/products/220v-ac-to-72v-30a-ac-dc-battery-charger-isolated

Click to expand...

One thing I should mention. For the adaptto (and presumably the Nuc) the power supply voltage must not be more than the lowest voltage that your pack will ever go. Otherwise the controller will not be able to control things. (I assume it can only work as a boost converter and not a buck converter)

Keep in mind, unless the Phaserunner folks have specified onboard charging as a function I would not assume that it can do it. Unless someone who knows better than the both of us says that it can.

ya I was thinking putting upto 30 amps through one phase wire might not be the best thing for the controller, just because you can doesn't mean you should.

I have a 48v 15amp charger I never use. if my 48v/ 3 amp chargers die I could charge a 48v battery with 3amps using the regen settings of the phaserunner

but if I wanted to put 30amps into my battery then why bother going through the phaserunner just put in the battery. I didn't realise there was 53vdc being boosted

Yeah, I wouldn't mess with it unless it were a documented feature or some bright brave soul had proven it a safe and effective option. If the controller lacks the ability, trying it all willy nilly might not be the best idea.

That said if however you're charging now has the ability to accept 240v you could make use of those charging stations. If not a European version of the same charger might be an option, though I believe they operate on 50hz... but what's 10hz amongst friends? (Might double check that one though, lest you end up smoking a charger or buying yourself a Chargepoint station or something.) Think the Cycle Satiator works on 110-240 too, though I don't know if that qualifies as quick charging. Decisions decisions.

Could always just buy a Nuc and be done with it.

Yes if you want high amps for fast charging, and need to carry a heavy duty AC-DC rectifier anyway

to me makes most sense to just get one that is adjustable to put out the right voltage while you're at it, and go "direct" to your battery.

With a BMS or HVC circuit terminating the charge cycle at your setpoint while you're having your coffee or whatever.

If your area has DCFC EVSEs, getting a compatible regulator for that going will lighten the load by quite a lot.

goatman said:

John in CR was talking about fast charging through a phase wire

Click to expand...

Yikes, a lot to go through here.

Yes, it can work. (We designed a charger for one of the early Ford EV projects using that system.) How it works is that you use one of the motor windings as the inductor in a buck converter. Since the current through the winding is sorta kinda like the back-EMF that the motor sees when regen'ing, it can work as a charger; the same PWM used to regulate the power during regen can regulate power into the battery.

HOWEVER:
1) The voltage has to be within the range the controller can handle. If the controller is good to 100V then you shouldn't put more than about 80V into the battery (since under some conditions that exact same inductor can work as a boost converter, and there will be a lot of inductive switching transients anyway.)

2) The power really should be isolated. If not you'll see line voltage on one of your rails, which could ruin your day unless you are VERY careful about insulation and isolation. (J1772 is not isolated.)

3) Since the current is going through the motor it is going to try to move it. Best case it's going to just sit there and shake (as a single winding is energized and de-energized) but more often there will be two or three coils carrying current depending on whether you have a wye or delta configuration. Which means that you could get motion. Again, it is generally just going to make the wheel vibrate and perhaps oscillate a bit - but if it's on a bike and you want the bike to sit safely on its kickstand, something to keep in mind.

4) You still have to rectify the AC somewhere.

Given all that, if you are going to get a isolated 80V supply to drive this, you might as well just get an isolated 67V supply to charge your battery directly.

so j1772 into a 220ac to 72v dc 30amp isolated charger direct to battery and im good, I can plug in my battery when its dead at 51v and I can pull the plug and stop charging at 70 volts and keep going

https://www.daygreen.com/products/220v-ac-to-72v-30a-ac-dc-battery-charger-isolated

Being stateside and traveling internationally,

I'd prefer universal "world power" input , e.g.

85-265Vac / 47-63Hz

and ideally also 120-350Vdc, standard input for so many voltage converters

_____
And of course you want to be able to use other than just J1772, Tesla for example, their "Gen 2 Mobil connector" (portable destination EVSE) is **very** versatile

https://bro05.blogspot.com/2018/06/best-value-charging-station-for-non.html

and regular wall outlets, NEMA 5-15 and 15-50 at least

for others: https://shop.tesla.com/product/gen-2-nema-adapters

goatman said:

so j1772 into a 220ac to 72v dc 30amp isolated charger direct to battery and im good, I can plug in my battery when its dead at 51v and I can pull the plug and stop charging at 70 volts and keep going

Click to expand...

I would not design something that would overcharge a battery if you forget.

Also, you need a device to generate the pilot signal so the J1772 will power up, like this:
https://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=107&osCsid=cd4b1on6f8ri7o1g6i1787i400

And of course the appropriate connector.

I've toyed with the idea of adding a 14-30 or 50 adapter to the mix but they can be kind of bulky. Might still, but not sure I would have occasion to actually use it in my travels so I hesitate to add yet another item to the pile.

To be fully prepared for long distance travel, need a partner driving a chase vehicle

or a chase (solar powered electric drive sail) boat with a couple ebikes on board

john61ct said:

To be fully prepared for long distance travel, need a partner driving a chase vehicle

Click to expand...

Or a mini 400W generator, so your guaranteed juice to power the chargers.
Then why not a 30-50cc gas powered pusher trailer. Keep on moving up the hierchy.

Hybrid bike 8-D

This requires some pretty unique backbends in the software to accomplish and I'm not aware that this exists in the current phaserunner / ASI code, it would be really sweet though!

If this is just a matter of code I hope that ASI realize how valuable that particular feature is. Literally a dealbreaker to me when others offer such functionality. Not sure if they care, but it is what it is.

it gets really interesting if youre running 48v or 52v or 60v or 72v solar panel to the equation.

I saw doctor bass was asking about solar charging at 48v and I thought about nucular needing 53v then boosting it for charging.

goatman said:

it gets really interesting if youre running 48v or 52v or 60v or 72v solar panel to the equation.

I saw doctor bass was asking about solar charging at 48v and I thought about nucular needing 53v then boosting it for charging.

Click to expand...

Not so much that the nuc necessarily needs 53v specifically. That just happens to be where my power supply is set. It just needs DC, at some point below pack minimum voltage. IIrc the Adaptto could charge using anything upwards of 12v, but 12v was hard on the controller so they recommended 24v and up.

Nothing fast about solar input.

Genasun has MPPT with boost conversion to go to higher voltages.

If your panel is high Voc to start there are other controllers with nominal 48V output.

Some use SCs as generic DCDC chargers, pretty compact and wide ranging inputs.

But big amps get expensive.