Tell me about MAC 3 speed and cruise button

I'm looking for a rear hub motor, 135 mm spacing, that can give a gentle start and some power for walking beside me on very difficult climbs. Also, sometimes I do some very slow riding, often with a foot or two paddling, following the grandson.

Then there is starting on a steep uphill, some good, controllable, smooth power is desired for this, to reduce the pedal effort.

In most situations, I'd like 25 mph for short bursts, as in outrunning a dog or a friend. My usual ride speed is 12 to 19 mph.

Can the MAC, with right twist throttle that has the button give me these things, and what is the buttons normal purpose? Looking on the em3ev site, and the MAC site, I could not determine what the button did and how it was used.

I'm thinking about a rear MAC 12T motor. Battery will be 48v 13s 4p most of the miles and sometimes 36v 10s 4p for extending the ride distance.

Thanks in advance, Mike S

Mike, the 12t may be good for 25, but it's only rated for 20 or so I think. 25 will be pushing it. A 10t might be a better choice if the ability to run 25mph is a priority.

As far as the low speed stuff, I'm sure you'll be happy unless this "steep hill" is REALLY steep. The throttle control issues are more about controller functions. I use a 35a KT control and find it able to do anything I've asked of it.

Take a look at the gmac from ebikes.ca with a baserunner controller. Very smooth, controllable power with the torque based throttle.

Well ... all I know is the title "3 Speed Switch With Cruise Function", on their site under (for example) https://em3ev.com/shop/mac-kit-47v-battery-900-1200w-max/.

It probably is two things:

1. A choice of 3 throttle ranges, with different top end speeds.

2. A cruise control, which will lock in the current throttle setting so you can let go of it and the motor will still keep pushing. When you hit the brakes it will unlock (if you hooked up the ebrake), or when you hit the throttle.

you'll need to give a specific link to a specific item, because the common usage of "mac" around here is just a geared hubmotor.

it does not have any "speed" or "cruise" buttons, as those are associated with controllers.

if you are referring to a specific kit that happens to include a mac motor, you'll have to link the kit, becuase it is not the motor that gives these functions.

"Well ... all I know is the title "3 Speed Switch With Cruise Function", on their site under (for example) https://em3ev.com/shop/mac-kit-47v-batt ... 1200w-max/.

It probably is two things:

1. A choice of 3 throttle ranges, with different top end speeds.

2. A cruise control, which will lock in the current throttle setting so you can let go of it and the motor will still keep pushing. When you hit the brakes it will unlock (if you hooked up the ebrake), or when you hit the throttle."

Donn, thanks, that is one of the kits I was looking at.

Bet you are correct. I was hoping the 3 speeds would be aimed at taming low speed power onset with throttle mapping, limiting top speed is probably what it does. If I'm trying to do a long ride on only one battery, I limit my speed, using less throttle, and that extends range. But, it's difficult to not ride faster sometimes. Examples would be keeping up with a One Wheel or other riders to see how fast they are going, or passing sooner to avoid a squeeze play from an oncoming rider, before slowing again. It's pretty easy to sacrifice some range when you don't intend to do that, so speed limiting could prove useful.

Any comments on a Baserunner mounted in the open on the heat sink that comes with it? It would have to work with both 48v and 36v, whichever I plug into it. Using a CA with the Baserunner would allow throttle mapping to be changed, wouldn't it?

25 mph would never be used except to make it through a green light, check the speed or another rider or escape a dog. Actual riding is mostly around 15 mph.

Thanks to all the others who have given advice.

MikeSSS said:

"Well ... all I know is the title "3 Speed Switch With Cruise Function", on their site under (for example) https://em3ev.com/shop/mac-kit-47v-batt ... 1200w-max/.

Click to expand...

your link is incomplete; it is missing everything between "batt" and "1200w". when i click your link, i takes me here:
https://em3ev.com/shop/mac-kit-47v-battery-900-1200w-max/
is that the correct link?

if so, then the "mac" is the mac motor, and the other stuff has nothing to do with it being a mac or not.

what is actually included in the kit is just:

Our Upgrade Mac Ebike Kit with 47/50V (25A Max) Battery Option includes:

Upgrade Mac motor (includes upgrade stator and temp sensor) in a built Alex wheel rim of your choice using 13G Sapim Spokes. See Upgrade Mac Kit for more information.
20A 6fet 3077 Programmable Infineon Controller (current reduced due to battery limitations) with matching throttle, 3 speed and Cruise, as well as a bar mounted power switch and a choice of ebrakes.
48V Frame Pack and charger with a choice of Capacity Options.
Interconnections between the Motor, Controller, all Accessories and the Battery are plug and play.

The combination of controller, battery and motor have been selected to ensure all parts are suitably matched and working within the recommended limits. Instead of offering choices for motor windings, we have offered a range of typical cruising speeds that can be expected on the flat. We will try our best to provide a motor that will meet or exceed the requested speed.

Click to expand...

everything else is optional.

so the controller comes with a 3speed switch, and it's cruise function. it does not describe the cruise function, or what those 3speeds precisely do, so to find out you must ask em3ev for exact details on those.

*typically*, the three speed switch simply gives three throttle proportions. they coudl be any levels, but 80%, 100%, and 120% is common. there isn't really a way to give 120% throttle, so what htey must be doing is limiting throttle of "100%" to actually only 80% of the capability of the controller; so that 100% isn't really 100%, it's only 80%. so the 80% is really only 60%, and 120% is really 100%. typical marketingspeak. :/

it's internal to the mcu chip and programming, so they could do literally anything the mcu is capable of, but the most likely is that it simply takes the incoming htrottle voltage and multiplies it by whichever ratio is chosen by the switch.

this one says' it's programmable, so you may be able to change what the specific ratios are, if not what the function actually does.


the cruise function could be a lot fo different things too, but it's probably like some of the grinfineons and ohter generic contorllers--you hold the throttle in one position long enough, and it "sticks" at that level even when you let go, until you either engage the ebrake switch, or move the throttle back up to some other setting.


but again, you must ask em3ev to know exactly what is really going to happen, before you buy, or you must simply test it out after you've received it.

MikeSSS said:

If I'm trying to do a long ride on only one battery, I limit my speed, using less throttle, and that extends range. But, it's difficult to not ride faster sometimes.

Click to expand...

if you use a cycle analyst v3, then you can put speed limits in as presets, or other limiting.

you should read the ca v3 info page for exactly what you can change, etc., to see if it will do what you want.

25 mph would never be used except to make it through a green light, check the speed or another rider or escape a dog.
Actual riding is mostly around 15 mph.

Click to expand...

for that, you could even use just a voltage divider on your throttle output, made using a potentiometer with the center wiper going to the controller throttle in, and one leg going to ground, and the other to your throttle's signal out.

then put a switch across the center wire and the throttle's signal out. use a momentary normally-open type. place this button wherever you can easily reach it in that "emergency" situation while actually using the throttle, without thinking. if it's grip throttle, put it under one of your fingertips.

so you can limit the top speed the system can hit with the pot, and the swithc just shorts around the pot taking out the limit.

the disadvantage to this system is it *also* limits the max power of the system from a start (but you can bypass that with taht button).

the advantage is it's a *lot* cheaper than a cycle analyst. :lol:

I bought a Mac 10t, 9 FET 3077 Infineon controller, programming cable by which I set it at 18.5 amps max and 50 phase current to smooth the start up some. For battery a 50v 14s5p, all from EM3EV. I added a WATTSUP meter to keep track of electrical flow and usage.

It's mounted on a 26" x 2.25 tired hard tail. The 3 peed switch is programmable to limit current in speed 1 and speed 2. It's handy because the torque is sudden. In speed 3 my bike will run 26 mph without pedaling... handy for dealing with dogs. I have speed 1 set to approx. 14 mph, speed 2 to approx 17.

The Infineon controller is programmable to a degree. In 'cruise mode' it is smooth on relatively flat ground and I use it a high percent of the time, but on steep grades it often adds full throttle on and then backs off quite a bit, then repeating, not finding a smooth compromise. Watching current flow on the WATTSUP meter, I can see the power fluctuations, and of course feel them as well. I set the current limit to 18.5 amps because the first controller was set at 30 amps, and on a very steep hill that at the bottom I was on cruise at 15 mph, the controller gave full throttle and the bike quickly accelerated, but then the motor began to shudder. Long story short, the Infineon was at fault. EM3EV replaced it under warranty very nicely. I didn't need 30 amps anyway.

My other e-bike is BBSHD powered. It is far more refined feeling. Both are fun though.

HCRider, thanks for the information.

Sounds like surging happens in cruise control mode on climbs. Is that correct?

How does it climb just using throttle?

How is the start, can you get smooth low speed control?

Mike

I get along well even on steep roads, depending on how fast you speed up, and how you use and program the 3 buttons.
with cruiser all right.
Then about the 30ah, decreasing the continuous Ah you have less power, or using the software firmware xpd you can lower the 30Ah peak (phase).

I have 8T on wheel 20 with infineon 12fet.

Mike: Yes, steep climbs on cruise setting result in surging. On the flat to mild hills, cruise works nice. Typically, I set it to 15 or 16 mph, then pedal at about 100 watts of human power that will increase the bike speed a mph or so. The WATTSUP meter will display a reduced current draw from the battery as I add human power. Downhill, the WATTSUP shows the motor going to low draw in the 30 to 50 watts range. Cruise is set by having the bike rolling at the speed wanted, throttle on and steady for several seconds, then pushing the cruise button. Cruise goes off by pushing the cruise button, touching the throttle, or pulling a brake handle.

Climbing using throttle only - Approaching a steep hill, I generally use the throttle. Just touching it takes the bike off cruise mode, so the transition is seamless. Using the throttle is smoother than letting cruise control the power. The Mac 10T has lots of power for climbing, so hills are not much of an issue. In case of chasing dogs, full throttle accelerates the bike nicely.

My bike is set up with a thumb throttle and 3 speed switch adjacent to each other on the left side of the handlebar. The power switch/cruise button is on the right. Front derailleur control is a thumb shifter on the left. Rear shifting is a SRAM Attack 8 speed twist grip on the right.

Smoothness from a start - The Mac 10T has great torque at zero speed. The Infineon controller set to EM3EV parameters is not smooth at zero speed. The as-delivered phase amps on mine were set to 84. I lowered them to 50 and that smoothed it up quite a bit, and I may try a lower setting yet. Pedaling and getting the bike up to 5 mph or so then using throttle is a good way to smoother starts.

My battery at 90% charge is over 57 volts. Generally, my rides range from 57.3 to 54 volts. That much voltages require a smooth touch of the throttle. With practice, I've gotten much smoother than at first. A blip to the throttle will (as in for sure) make the bike jump because motor power is instant. Always (as in always) make sure the power switch is off (as in really off) if the rider is not actually ready to ride. A bumped throttle will result in rapid bike movement.