Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

Post by MikeSSS » Apr 12 2020 1:30am

On the bike path I see a lot of riders, mostly see them when they are oncoming and when they pass me going the same direction. There are lots of fast roadies and many fast mountain bike guys, all on pedal only bikes and all faster than I ride.

One roadie is an older guy who looks sort of like a better looking Colonel Sanders, he's fast too. Not fast for an old guy, nope, just fast-fast. Today we were at a stop light, we departed together and he pulled away a bit, then we entered some very tight an twisty stuff, he easily out-cornered me by a lot and when we got on a short straight he was far ahead. After a couple more tight bits I never saw him again. This was not surprising at all, his cruising speed is probably ten miles and hour faster than mine. That speed differential is about average for my eBike and the real roadies and fast MTB guys, some girls too. To be fair, were I on my pedal road bike, using the drops and aero bars I'd be faster than on my eBike, but not by 10 mph.

It gets worse, a couple weeks ago I spoke to a couple, he a pedal roadie and she a roadie on a Specialized eBike, one with front suspension and a Bosch mid drive. I was finishing a 400 mile month and feeling pretty good about it. Asked them if they were getting some miles, they said about 360 plus for the week and they average about 1200 miles a month. Gad.

There's a lot of very impressive riders out there. OK, I'm not one, but seeing them riding, even if it's briefly oncoming or rapidly dropping me like a rock, is excellent. Maybe I should change my handle to "Rock".

Rock on and may the Amps be with you.

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Re: Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

Post by MadRhino » Apr 12 2020 2:01am

Maybe you should build a faster bike, don’t bother the handlebar.

Young guys on big motorcycles can’t beat me. :twisted:
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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Re: Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

Post by Sunder » Apr 12 2020 4:58am

MikeSSS wrote:
Apr 12 2020 1:30am
There's a lot of very impressive riders out there. OK, I'm not one, but seeing them riding, even if it's briefly oncoming or rapidly dropping me like a rock, is excellent. Maybe I should change my handle to "Rock".
When all you've got is the 150-250w most amateur cyclists have to play with, but lots of money willing to be spent, engineers can do some pretty amazing things. My leg powered bike weighs only 6.5kg and the aerodynamic profile of it is amazingly low. On one hill, I can get to 65km/h easily, where as my ebike going down the same hill - with a clutched hub motor will only get to about 50km/h. Of course, on the way back up, I'm averaging 10-12km/h on the pushie, where as the electric bike will fly back up it at high 30s. My electric motorscooter could have easily done it 80km/h (if it was legal), and I'm hoping my new electric motorcycle even faster. But... so what?

One thing you have to realise both ways, whether you are the faster one or not, is that life's not a race or a competition. Nobody walks past a marathon runner thinking "There's a lot of impressive walkers out there" - while you're just carrying your groceries to your car. Even with the whole 10k steps per day fad, few people will glance over at another person's fitbit and think "Phwoar, 20k steps today? I've only done 5k"

We all have a reason to bike, and we all built a bike for that reason. If you're happy with yours, who cares whether it's for a once a week toddle to the shops, or a 20,000km bike packing tourer designed for a trip of a life time? If you're not happy with yours, as MadRhino said, build a faster bike (or more comfortable, or bigger capacity, or more bling).

All that said, the temptation to start including some high end road bike parts into my daily electric commuter has been growing on me. I've barely left the house in the past 5 weeks, but still working full time remotely. And when eBay keeps reminding you of the aerodynamic wheels and carbon fibre parts you've been looking at, all the while your credit card balance is actually in credit because of all the refunds you've been receiving for services no longer able to be delivered (Gym cancelled, personal training cancelled, holidays cancelled) ... There's money burning through my pocket wanting to be spent.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
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eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Warramty expired. Still not game!
eHouse: 6.2kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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ZeroEm   100 kW

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Re: Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

Post by ZeroEm » Apr 12 2020 7:12am

Most of my riding is on a greenway, it's a bicycle highway small hills and twists and turns. In a few years it will encircle the city. Now riding a trike, no leaning in corners (major draw back) and keeps my speeds 24 kph/15 mph and under. Can go faster but start sliding around corners and slamming on brakes not to go off road.

There is a group of people staying in top shape or just like to ride fast, I call them 20 mph's because I am sure they can maintain 32 kph / 20 mph for miles. These people fly by me, blast thru groups of slow riders. I am impressed with there abilities but find them indifferent to others. When one blows by me on a straight it's time to turn up the power and run them down. They really try to pull away but the shadow stays until the corners then let them go.

So what is my problem, is it because i'm not at their level, just want to show off or just getting back at them for being so rude?
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speedmd   100 MW

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Re: Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

Post by speedmd » Apr 12 2020 8:06am

They don't allow ebikes on our greenway. They don't allow fast riding either. 20 MPH is not fast. The fast guys are riding 24.

Hard enough focusing on producing high power, keeping fatigue in check and feed- hydration to play with a trike out for some air. It is as hard as you think. Need to excuse the perceptions of rudeness and get the Fv<{ ! out of the way. It takes years to develop a 300+ watt FTP motor.

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Re: Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

Post by bakaneko » Apr 12 2020 10:48am

I just started riding an entry level cheap road bike and the difference between a mountain bike and ebike efficiency is monumental. I was going about 50% faster than on a mountain bike and this is entry level. I trained over the winter but consider myself beginner road rider. Take a look at some road race videos with power meters, they are literally doing 25 mph sometimes with 100-200W on good bikes. While an ebike require like 750W. Obviously, it requires training as well but the skinny and high psi tires, low weight, and aero nature of road bikes make them fast. However, you should be able to beat them easily on hills.

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Re: Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

Post by Electric Earth » Apr 12 2020 12:04pm

One simple solution(though not for a trike) would be to build a nice e-commuter from a touring bike platform. Something with drop bars and no more than 40mm wide tires. It won't be quite as fast as a full on race bike, but will be faster and more efficient than your often seen heavy, upright MTB platform. It think it would be more stealth, too. You could have your battery in a pannier, which would also then block view of the rear hub motor. It would also make the battery easy to unmount and take with you.

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Re: Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

Post by DAND214 » Apr 12 2020 1:00pm

So they pass me! I don't care if they do or not, as long as they keep their mouth shut. I can go faster and farther than they can., in most cases. 32 mph top speed and 70 miles as long as I stay under 20.

As op says how they pass him, so what. As I said pass me, just don't make fun of me on my E-bike. No reason for him to be passed since he lives in the states. 750 watt limit is good for more than 20 mph, a lot. Must have a speed limiter connected. Or a low amp controller that is limiting it. Or maybe that as fast he wants to go.


Dan

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Re: Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

Post by flat tire » Apr 12 2020 3:20pm

You got killed cuz you weren't prepared man. Go ride those twisty parts until you are hauling ass. And look into feeding that motor some more juice.

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Re: Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

Post by Electric Earth » Apr 12 2020 3:46pm

DAND214 wrote:
Apr 12 2020 1:00pm
No reason for him to be passed since he lives in the states. 750 watt limit is good for more than 20 mph, a lot.
You're certainly correct that 750w will get you over 20. My old 500w amazon bike kit would do 20. I miss that bike.
Most places in the US have a speed limit too. I think ~15mph is common. ...I mean, I doubt you'll get in trouble for being able to exceed that by quite a bit as long as you're riding sensibly. But for what it's worth, there are more legal limitations than a 750w government regulation.

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Re: Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

Post by DAND214 » Apr 12 2020 4:19pm

Electric Earth wrote:
Apr 12 2020 3:46pm
DAND214 wrote:
Apr 12 2020 1:00pm
No reason for him to be passed since he lives in the states. 750 watt limit is good for more than 20 mph, a lot.
You're certainly correct that 750w will get you over 20. My old 500w amazon bike kit would do 20. I miss that bike.
Most places in the US have a speed limit too. I think ~15mph is common. ...I mean, I doubt you'll get in trouble for being able to exceed that by quite a bit as long as you're riding sensibly. But for what it's worth, there are more legal limitations than a 750w government regulation.
Yes there are more rules than the 750 watts. Some are 20 mph no watt limit, some require pedal assist. some have more choices like 28 mph but must have pedal assist, other is 20 mph with pedal assist and 20mph with throttle.

In most cases you are correct, don't drive like a jerk or drunken jerk and you will have no problems doing more than the limit. But there are times you are just ridding along at less than the limit and a pissed off cop will stop you for no reason. They will also do that to a roadie too. So ride normal and no problems in most cases.

Dan

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ZeroEm   100 kW

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Re: Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

Post by ZeroEm » Apr 12 2020 5:26pm

When ever a road bike blows by me now I will smile and say "Got fried by Col. Sanders".

My trike will go 53 kph / 31 mph but have it set at 28 mph per law. power limited to 2600w/1500w/750w per switch, my pas is set at 750w.

I was just commenting to see if my thinking was out of line not that I could not keep up or beat them with a motor. Just it's a public walk not a race track.
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Re: Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

Post by MikeSSS » Apr 12 2020 7:53pm

There are a lot of tadpole trikes on my ride routes, as well as a One Wheel and an eskateboard now and then. I love watching bikes of all kinds, fast, slow, in between. eSkateboards are not fast, some look like ordinary skateboards, some have larger wheels and wider axles, but none approach One Wheel speed, which is as fast as many of the roadies. There are some mountain bike riders, usually on high end FS bikes, that can ride at close to roadie speeds. Occasionally there will be a roller blader skating at over 15 mph, that's pretty impressive to see.

Didn't mean to imply that I'm wanting to ride faster, just that I'm impressed with the speed of the fast bike guys. 25 years ago I would have been one of the medium speed roadies, also did a few hundred mile rides. But that was then and this is now.

My ebike runs into back EMF at about 25 mph, but I'm not going to ride that fast on my leisure rides, maybe to pace another rider for grins though. If I want faster on two wheels I just use the motorcycle. I also have a gas bike, Subaru Robin 33cc motor on a Staton friction drive with 1" roller. That bike is nice and smooth around 16 mph and gets over a hundred miles per gallon. The gas bike costs around 1.7 cents per mile for gas, the ebike costs about 0.01 cents per mile for electricity and around 8 cents per mile for battery cost. That said, I far prefer the quietness of the ebike.

"Older now but still ridin' against the wind"

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Re: Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

Post by markz » Apr 12 2020 8:41pm

Damn Lycra Roadies
I've only ever seen a few super fast Lycra Roadie's on pathway trail systems. The others are always on the road, spinning fast.

If you want to keep up to them, then you need more power. 250W doesn't cut it, you need to step up to the Leaf 1500W or MXUS/QS 3kw and then rock a 72V system. You will kick them damn lycra's butts, easy.

What I like to do, is cruise in behind some Lycra or Lycra wannabe, if its around the same speed I like to cruise at. I actually do it quite often, whether it be a mtb rider or Lycra or a roadie. I would say I like to ride around at a speed of 20mph(36kph) but not more then 40kph but every once in a while I like to go super fast, mostly on the road with little to no side streets or intersections.

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Re: Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

Post by dogman dan » Apr 13 2020 6:37am

When I was riding a 25 mph, 36v commuter, Id see a roadie, a 100 pound girl, who'd pass me regularly. She'd be cutting the wind, and another roadie would be struggling like hell to keep up, in her draft. Often as not, he'd come by later, dropped.

She won all the local ladies races of course, and placed well in the national ones too.

My point is,,, don't compete with real roadies, unless on Mad Rhino's bike. They ride 30 mph plus into the wind all the time. "Lycras" roadie wanna be, they can be fun to toy with on a 30 mph bike.

Nobody ever out corners me though.

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Re: Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

Post by speedmd » Apr 13 2020 6:48am

Nobody ever out corners me though.
What, no pro cyclocross riders in your area! :lol:

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Re: Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

Post by MadRhino » Apr 13 2020 10:53am

It is easy to build a fast ebike. I don’t see the point competing with pedalists though. We don’t build fast bikes to beat cyclists. We do it because we want performance for faster commuting, or motor sport thrill.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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Re: Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

Post by dogman dan » Apr 15 2020 6:50am

Well,, out on the MTB trails the good riders, usually racers, descend much faster than me and out corner me there.

I meant on the street, whether on bikes, or motorcycles. Very few accelerate through the corners like I do habitually. You gotta grab traction when you are leaned over the most. Nearly everybody, including unskilled owners of crotch rockets, brakes through corners. Unbelievable the riders you see out there, who really have no idea how to ride. At one point I was there too, on more bike than I could handle, but that was 40 years ago.

I pass em on my gay looking burgman scooter all the time when riding in the mountains. Once the road straightens out, there they go by me again, at 100 mph. But not in the horseshoe corners.

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Re: Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

Post by speedmd » Apr 15 2020 8:07am

Well,, out on the MTB trails the good riders, usually racers, descend much faster than me and out corner me there.
Most of the top of the class in the off road categories are exceptional bike handlers. I get to see and ride with a few of the top xcross riders during the fall and learn a few tricks every year. I also love the technical stuff and am better the more difficult it gets, but do not take the chances the mtn bikers are willing to take bombing through the trees. Whats the point at my age, I learned many years ago what it feels like to hit one.

Agree, in seeing folks road riding, too many are clueless near the limits. Coasted past a pack of motorcycles going down the paved mountain road a few years ago on my road bike. :shock: Fortunately for them, they did not try to chase me. They would have been dragged into and over cooked some tricky turns way above their capabilities. Hopping over lumpy road sections on the fast lines that can spell disaster, is not something many understand or can pull off. Off roaders do that thousands of times a day.

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Re: Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

Post by miro13car » Apr 15 2020 8:40am

where I live in Calgary I see lycras riding like crazy every second day.
But they cannot overtake me no way at 50km/h , the tried couple of times
it makes them sometimes angry really with shouting at me .
I shout back I pedal , it is bicycle.
of course walkers, runners see mostly ebikes not roadies.
fines for speeding increased from 50 to 400 bucks this year in Calgary.
of course officers will set up traps , I think at the places where people complained about, I think.
this spring will be different for me - virus , will try to keep distance from walkers, runners.
how?
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Re: Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

Post by speedmd » Apr 15 2020 10:11am

Last summer, our weekly A group training ride was joined by one of our injured riders on his commuter ebike. A few of the fast guys had a fit with him motor pacing the pack of a dozen or so for a bit. I had one of the best workouts of the season and hung on way past my abilities just because I was having a blast. Funny thing is, the faster guys need this type of workout more than they know and I was able to quell the talk of banning them (riders that could only ride ebikes comfortably) from joining in even while they rehab.

They wonder why they get dropped in some of the pro races. If you want to ride 50km/hr and above, you need to practice it. If your kind, and pass them and allow them to grab your wheel, don't be surprised if your battery starts to die before the faster ones W prime runs out. I am planning riding mostly solo this year, but a few are wearing runners masks for now.

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Re: Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

Post by miro13car » Apr 16 2020 11:16am

my technique is to get in front of lycra and start to slow down pretending that I am getting tired and weak,
so he can try to overtake me. when he is right on my rear wheel I accelerate , leave him behind
and I repeat all trick again and again untill they give up.
no way my battery would "start to die" , maybe yours,
I can play such game for tens of kilometers .
11S2P Chevy Volt cells can power my very efficient ebike drive for tens of kilometers of riding in mid power level.
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Re: Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

Post by speedmd » Apr 16 2020 11:45am

Wow, I'm impressed, you have a ebike that can go faster than athletic rider. I bet all the chicks think a pudgy old dude on a dorky ebike is hot also. :lol:

Playing games is just going to get all us riding -liking e-bikes banned from most greenways. What are you going to do if they get pissed off and grab onto your shirt or arm and don't let go! Some of the bony dudes I know well are not the f'n around types. You may end up picking up your teeth with a broken arm. Ever mess with a real sprinter? :shock: CAUTION!

Regardless, most pro riders would stay clear of this bs and if they were on a over-under workout, gladly play with you as it is the type of anaerobic repeats that builds super power levels. Tens of kilometers is nothing for guys that ride 120- 150 km a day.

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Re: Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

Post by miro13car » Apr 16 2020 2:03pm

many members here NOT just me have ebikes that can go faster,
lycra is playing games not me, ha ha
why would he get pissed off?
just not allowing him to pass ???
grab on my shirt? ha ha
maybe he should pull the gun on me, ha, ha, ha.
I have something for him.
no
hundreds of kilometers is nothing for pro athlete
not just tens
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Re: Got fried by Col. Sanders today. eBike vs pedal

Post by thundercamel » Apr 17 2020 9:40am

speedmd wrote:
Apr 16 2020 11:45am
Playing games is just going to get all us riding -liking e-bikes banned from most greenways.
Agreed, be respectful, as long as they are. I almost had a lyrca crash into me because he didn't obey a stop sign or look over his shoulder for traffic. Yelled "BOO!" into his ear as I passed him right after.
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