PAS 1 to fast/strong .... What are my options to lower speed?

Hello all, Just registered to hopefully get some help. I see this looks like a builders forum so if Im out of place posting this here, just delete it please.

Got my 1st ebike a few weeks ago and as much as I like the bike, PAS 1 is just to fast.

Even after all the tweaks to the display settings to weaken the power and sensitivity, pas1 is running at 11-12 mph and that's pedaling lightly in 7th gear.

If I downshift to 6th gear or move up to pas2, I cant keep up with the speed by pedaling.

The way its setup, gears 1-5 and pas level 2-5 are useless I guess, unless I'm climbing a big hill which I don't have around me.


I know I can change the gearing to give me more pedal and allow the use of more gears and probably pas 2 but that wont change the fact that pas1 is running at 11 mph and I would like it much lower.


I've been doing some research and have read about CYCLE ANALYST 3.0 that will allow you to lower the PAS settings, along with allot of other things. I've also heard of other displays that give more setting control but don't know what will work with my setup. I'm assuming to use a different display, I'll need a new controller but I have no idea where to start on figuring out what will work with what. I doubt its out there but something just plug and play would be awesome but if I have to do some rewiring im ok with that as long as I have a good guide or instructions to go by.


So what are my options?

Any help would be much appreciated.


(My Bike: Aostirmotors S07-B with 750 watt Truckrun Rear hub motor, SW-U-LCD display)

the cycle analyst would need to be used with a controller that does not itself *require* pas to operate, as it only sends out a throttle signal, based on your pas and/or throttle input to the ca.

so if your controller requires you to pedal in order to operate, and cannot be used with just the throttle, then you would need to replace the controller at the same time.

if you're doing that anyway, you could just change the controller and display to another kit that would either be more adjustable to suit your needs, or starts out matching your needs.

if you're a fair diyer, then any of the above are options.

if you're an enthusiastic diyer, then stuff like the kt / kunteng / kun teng cotnrollers with matchign displays, both using the opensource firmware osfw by casainho / stancecoke / etc., would probably be the least expensive most customizable option.


if you really want a "plug and play" option, and don't want to have to determine wiring between any of your existing components and the new stuff, or change connectors on things, you'd probably end up having to replace the entire electrical system on the bike with a totally new system that already comes prewired and presetup; there are the "rtr" ready-to-roll kits from grin tech http://ebikes.ca like that, and em3ev, and likely other places. you'd probably still have to tune the pas / etc settings to suit your exact needs, for whatever setup you get.



if you just need a "hack" that allows you to use the existing system by "slowing it down", you could try to locate the speedometer sensor, and change the number of pulses the system reads from it. since you want it to go slower / be more controllable at lower speeds, then increasing the number of pulses would make it think it's going faster than it is, so it will not actually go as fast.

if it's a separate sensor on the frame/fork/wheel, rather than using a sensor in a hubmotor, it is very easy to do--just add another magnet on the wheel, and it will about halve the speed the system tries to go. add another, and it will be one third, and so on.

if it's a sensor inside the motor, then if it is not one of the hall sensors the motor controller has to see to operate the motor, but rather a separate one (some have this, some don't), then you can disconnect it from the motor's sensor, and connect it to a separate wheel sensor (like those from bike speedometers/computers), and do the multiple magnet thing, for the same effect.

amberwolf said:

the cycle analyst would need to be used with a controller that does not itself *require* pas to operate, as it only sends out a throttle signal, based on your pas and/or throttle input to the ca.

so if your controller requires you to pedal in order to operate, and cannot be used with just the throttle, then you would need to replace the controller at the same time.

Click to expand...

It does have a sealed cadence sensor at the crank and also has a twist throttle.

amberwolf said:

if you're doing that anyway, you could just change the controller and display to another kit that would either be more adjustable to suit your needs, or starts out matching your needs.

Click to expand...

Can you recommend any particular displays and controllers to allow me more customization?

amberwolf said:

if you're an enthusiastic diyer, then stuff like the kt / kunteng / kun teng cotnrollers with matchign displays, both using the opensource firmware osfw by casainho / stancecoke / etc., would probably be the least expensive most customizable option.

Click to expand...

Ive watched some videos on this and looks interesting. How complicated is setting that up?
More complicated than CA?

amberwolf said:

if you just need a "hack" that allows you to use the existing system by "slowing it down", you could try to locate the speedometer sensor, and change the number of pulses the system reads from it. since you want it to go slower / be more controllable at lower speeds, then increasing the number of pulses would make it think it's going faster than it is, so it will not actually go as fast.

if it's a separate sensor on the frame/fork/wheel, rather than using a sensor in a hubmotor, it is very easy to do--just add another magnet on the wheel, and it will about halve the speed the system tries to go. add another, and it will be one third, and so on.

if it's a sensor inside the motor, then if it is not one of the hall sensors the motor controller has to see to operate the motor, but rather a separate one (some have this, some don't), then you can disconnect it from the motor's sensor, and connect it to a separate wheel sensor (like those from bike speedometers/computers), and do the multiple magnet thing, for the same effect.

Click to expand...

Sensor is in the hub and I have no idea if its a hall sensor or not. Would doing the hack to slow it down also slow my top speed as well?

And thanks for the reply. Much appreciated
Im pretty new to this but I'm a quick learner most of the time....lol
I have 3 old mountain bikes in my shed that I may build out once i learn a little more.

Do you even have a throttle? If so you can just unplug the pas sensor, and learn to use the throttle. Its a learning curve, to be sure, but if you have a throttle, it will provide you with a much better experience than shitty pas. Nothing sucks more than shitty pas.


The video I saw looks like you do have a throttle. Up to me, I'd disconnect pas. The way to ride is this. Pick a gear, and a cadence in that gear. Then as needed, roll up throttle power to make pedaling easy, but not too easy. This lets you ride the same gear and cadence for an entire ride, and instead of fiddling with shifters or changing your effort, you simply adjust the throttle continuously.

Sucks right? Wrong. Of course its awkward at first, but over time, say 10,000 miles plus, you will see how much better than shitty pas it is. Seriously, in 500 miles or so, you will stop thinking about the throttle completely, and just ride with a big grin on your face, at your favorite speed, and gear. You should still have ability to select power levels as well, for when you do come to that big hill, or big wind.

dogman dan said:

Do you even have a throttle? If so you can just unplug the pas sensor, and learn to use the throttle. Its a learning curve, to be sure, but if you have a throttle, it will provide you with a much better experience than shitty pas. Nothing sucks more than shitty pas.


The video I saw looks like you do have a throttle. Up to me, I'd disconnect pas. The way to ride is this. Pick a gear, and a cadence in that gear. Then as needed, roll up throttle power to make pedaling easy, but not too easy. This lets you ride the same gear and cadence for an entire ride, and instead of fiddling with shifters or changing your effort, you simply adjust the throttle continuously.

Sucks right? Wrong. Of course its awkward at first, but over time, say 10,000 miles plus, you will see how much better than shitty pas it is. Seriously, in 500 miles or so, you will stop thinking about the throttle completely, and just ride with a big grin on your face, at your favorite speed, and gear. You should still have ability to select power levels as well, for when you do come to that big hill, or big wind.

Click to expand...

I do have a throttle. Didnt think they sell ebikes with out them in the US.
Like I said, Im new to ebikes.
Im sure i'll get used to using the throttle more eventually.
Using PAS just seems much easier to maintain a speed right now.
In PAS1 I can put it in 6th or 7th gear and do liesurely pedaling and maintain the same speed all day long.
My problem is that speed is 11-12 mph. I cant go any faster without loosing the pedal resistance. And I cant go any slower because PAS1 is to fast.

The Cycle Analyst and the opensource firmware allows you to set each level of assist to how many watts for each level. Which is all anyone probably needs to dial in PAS however they want it for whatever conditions they ride in and however their bike is geared. I really dont need all the other things that CA does. Both of those solutions are a couple years old I think. Im just shocked it hasnt advanced farther with newer displays with more ways to dial your ride in. With the way ebikes are selling now, it sure seems like someone could make a fortune selling an easy to use display and controller setup for everyone buying the cheaper bikes with crappy setups or to the ebike manufacturers themselves.

Like I said....Im a newb....and I have no electrical knowledge unfortunately but pushing a button to send a certain amount of wattage to an electric motor doesnt seem like rocket science to me.

It takes so little pedal power to go much slower than 11 mph, that I wonder what’s the incentive to use motor power for that? Is your bike unusually hard to pedal?

I think many would agree it's easier to maintain speed using PAS. I get what you are saying there, but I fear I'm loosing it someplace from there.

Are you saying that you can't keep up with the pedals at speeds over 11-12mph?

If that's the case, change your front gear to one with more teeth on it. That should do what you want.

CAGE RATTLER said:

amberwolf said:

the cycle analyst would need to be used with a controller that does not itself *require* pas to operate, as it only sends out a throttle signal, based on your pas and/or throttle input to the ca.

so if your controller requires you to pedal in order to operate, and cannot be used with just the throttle, then you would need to replace the controller at the same time.

Click to expand...

It does have a sealed cadence sensor at the crank and also has a twist throttle.

Click to expand...

that doesn't say whether it requires you to pedal in order to operate. if it does, then you cannot use that controller, and would have to use one that does not require this. if it does not, and you can leave your feet off the pedals entirely, and just use throttle, then you can use that controller.

that is because the pas sensor would be disconnected from the controller, and connected only to the ca. so would the throttle, since you have one.

then the ca uses those and any other inputs you like (ebrake, etc) along with whatever settings you've put into it to create a throttle signal to run the controller. no other signals go to the controller from the ca.

CAGE RATTLER said:

amberwolf said:

if you're doing that anyway, you could just change the controller and display to another kit that would either be more adjustable to suit your needs, or starts out matching your needs.

Click to expand...

Can you recommend any particular displays and controllers to allow me more customization?

Click to expand...

i did, in the section about the kt / kunteng / kun teng. you must find and read the opensource firmware osfw threads by casainho / stancecoke / etc for the links to the specific hardware required, once you have read the threads and/or github / wiki links to understand what that setup would do for you, and if it is what you want.

CAGE RATTLER said:

amberwolf said:

if you're an enthusiastic diyer, then stuff like the kt / kunteng / kun teng cotnrollers with matchign displays, both using the opensource firmware osfw by casainho / stancecoke / etc., would probably be the least expensive most customizable option.

Click to expand...

Ive watched some videos on this and looks interesting. How complicated is setting that up?
More complicated than CA?

Click to expand...

see above.

CAGE RATTLER said:

Sensor is in the hub and I have no idea if its a hall sensor or not.

Click to expand...

if it's in the hub, it's a hall sensor...but if it's one of the three phase hall sensors is undetermined.

if there is only one sensor signal line (often white), with it's own power and ground (usually red and black), then it's just a speed sensor, and not used to control motor position/etc, so it's "safe" to interfere with.

if there are three sensor signal lines (often yellow, green, blue), with power and ground (red, black), and no fourth sensor signal line (like the above white, etc), then they're not safe to interfere with, as the motor will probably not operate correctly if you do.

if it is the solo type, the easiest way to hack it is to disconnect those wires from the motor sensor, and use an external one off an old bike speedometer/computer (or an addon sensor like those from ebikes.ca, if you don't have an old bike computer laying around), and put it on the frame near the wheel spokes, and put the magnet on the spokes. then start adding magnets on ohter spokes until it operates the way you want it to.

there's electronics hacks if you want to leave the sensor in the motor, but you'd have to get some stuff to build small electronics projects with, and do some soldering, testing, etc., and possibly a bit of electronics learning, to do these.

Would doing the hack to slow it down also slow my top speed as well?

Click to expand...

if the controller's sensor response is halved, then everything the controller does based on that will also be halved.

but you can put a switch on the hack to bypass it for when you need the faster speed if it's an electronic hack, and you can slide the magnet away from the sensor area if it's a magnet hack.

I have 3 old mountain bikes in my shed that I may build out once i learn a little more.

Click to expand...

it might be "better" if you were to use one of them to build into a completely new bike that does what you want, and leave this one completely intact as it is, as a backup system.

just use the same battery for both, since that is usually the most expensive part.

Balmorhea said:

It takes so little pedal power to go much slower than 11 mph, that I wonder what’s the incentive to use motor power for that? Is your bike unusually hard to pedal?

Click to expand...

Its a 26in fat tire heavy bike and I have health problems and bought the ebike to try to get more exercize.
I have blocked arteries and blood clots in my left leg and also blood clots in my lungs.
When I just walk about 100 yards, my left leg feels like i ran a 20 mile marathon.
With the ebike I can exert myself as little or as much as I want and if I tire to much, I have the throttle to get me home.
With a liesurely pedal I can go all day but some areas, I dont want to be going that fast. Especially on some trails i like to ride on where i used to ride my dirt bikes when I was a kid.

If my pas1 speed was lower, I could pedal more and have the low level of assist when needed.

AHicks said:

Are you saying that you can't keep up with the pedals at speeds over 11-12mph?

Click to expand...

Doing liesuerly pedaling, Thats exactly right and thats running the lowest assist level and the highest rear gear. If I wanted to pedal my rear off I could go faster and probably go up to pas2. But theres no way i could pedal in pas 3-5 and have any pedal resistance.
Im sure I will be changing the rear gearing from a 14-28 to a 11-28 and also possibly the front sprocket if needed. It would be nice to be able to use all the pas levels we are given but i still would like to be starting at a lower speed in pas1 which changing the gearing wont help.

amberwolf said:

CAGE RATTLER said:

amberwolf said:

the cycle analyst would need to be used with a controller that does not itself *require* pas to operate, as it only sends out a throttle signal, based on your pas and/or throttle input to the ca.

so if your controller requires you to pedal in order to operate, and cannot be used with just the throttle, then you would need to replace the controller at the same time.

Click to expand...

It does have a sealed cadence sensor at the crank and also has a twist throttle.

Click to expand...

that doesn't say whether it requires you to pedal in order to operate. if it does, then you cannot use that controller, and would have to use one that does not require this. if it does not, and you can leave your feet off the pedals entirely, and just use throttle, then you can use that controller.

that is because the pas sensor would be disconnected from the controller, and connected only to the ca. so would the throttle, since you have one.

then the ca uses those and any other inputs you like (ebrake, etc) along with whatever settings you've put into it to create a throttle signal to run the controller. no other signals go to the controller from the ca.

Click to expand...

I can use the throttle without pedaling. I can also change the settings to just throttle only, just pedal only or both.
Does that mean my controller will work with CA?

amberwolf said:

CAGE RATTLER said:

amberwolf said:

if you're doing that anyway, you could just change the controller and display to another kit that would either be more adjustable to suit your needs, or starts out matching your needs.

Click to expand...

Can you recommend any particular displays and controllers to allow me more customization?

Click to expand...

i did, in the section about the kt / kunteng / kun teng. you must find and read the opensource firmware osfw threads by casainho / stancecoke / etc for the links to the specific hardware required, once you have read the threads and/or github / wiki links to understand what that setup would do for you, and if it is what you want.

Click to expand...

Ive read some and need to read more but going that route might be cheaper but I think thats out of my skill level right now.
Do they or anyone else sell a display and controller that is already loaded with the opensource firmware?
If not, I'd be willing to pay if anyone wants to make a little money.

The standard KT LCD3 or LCD8 and KT controller has more adjustability than what I have but not sure if its enough to do exactly what Im looking to do. For PAS it looked like only a 3 step setting (C14) in the advanced menu with 2 being default and 1 reducing power and 3 raising power. Unless im misunderstanding some of the other options.

CAGE RATTLER said:

AHicks said:

Are you saying that you can't keep up with the pedals at speeds over 11-12mph?

Click to expand...

Doing liesuerly pedaling, Thats exactly right and thats running the lowest assist level and the highest rear gear. If I wanted to pedal my rear off I could go faster and probably go up to pas2. But theres no way i could pedal in pas 3-5 and have any pedal resistance.
Im sure I will be changing the rear gearing from a 14-28 to a 11-28 and also possibly the front sprocket if needed. It would be nice to be able to use all the pas levels we are given but i still would like to be starting at a lower speed in pas1 which changing the gearing wont help.

Click to expand...

This was a really common problem for a LOT of people with the pre '19 RAD's. Many switched to 11-32 to cure it (myself included). So many, RAD made a change for '19 to include that 11-32 modification. Others swapped out the front gear for a larger one with the same result.

Either way, it's not that big a deal and MUCH simpler than getting involved with switching controllers and displays. Thought here is, at the very least, changing gears might be something to try first.

I will probably do that but that still won't slow down the speed of pas1.

I'm really not clear on your objective. If it's to allow you to stay up with the pedals, the gear change (on either end), will do that.

If you want to limit the WATTAGE, not voltage, for better control over the various PAS levels, the KT controller will allow you to do that - without resorting to the open source code. I agree, that open source stuff is for an electrical engineer to use. As I mentioned in the other forum you're running this question, the KT system adjustability is NOT limited to just the C-14 parameter. Also, the stock firmware is well done. For instance, when you tell it to go, it's moving NOW. There's no spool up time/soft start to it.

I did both.....with the DNP 11-32 freewheel (from Amazon), AND a 35a KT systems contoler w/LCD3 display (from pswpower).

Cadence pedal assist is just wrong. It's counter intuitive. Time lag, if it has that, makes it even more high risk or dangerous if you prefer that word. Pedaling only we choose a gear that gives comfortable cadence and pedal effort, speed is a result of those two things along with terrain and wind. An ebike should work the same way, except with less pedal effort.

Torque sensor pedal assist works well ... if it is a good implementation. Time lag in this system would make it high risk. A good torque sensor assist simply reduces pedal effort proportional to the assist setting. This system is intuitive, it is sort of transparent to the rider. Bikes I've ridden that have a good implementation have used Bosch mid drive and the Bafang mid drive that is NOT the BBS02 or BBSHD. These bikes have frames specifically built for the mid drive they use. These mid drives are not the kind that install into the bottom bracket.

Throttle is best, it works the same as a motorcycle, scooter, mini-bike, car, truck, SUV, boat, jet ski, snow mobile, etc. Everybody is familiar with throttle, they know how it works and it is very intuitive. Again, throttle needs to be a good implementation, my ebike has really good throttle response, my wife's does not. Her throttle does not work well because the controller looks for regeneration during the first part of throttle travel and she is using a geared hub motor and those don't have regen.

Throttle is very useful for adding some assist to pedal effort, to reduce pedal effort. Yes it can be used to just motor along, I find it's very hard to not pedal though.

Were I in your situation I'd unplug that PAS and just use pedal and throttle. Second choice would be to set PAS to 0 and just use pedal and throttle. If the controller won't work this way, then get another controller, one that has better programming, one designed for throttle use. Avoid controllers that can work with regen.

Pedal Assist is just wrong.
Unplug pedal assist and go strictly 100% throttle!
......unless you actually want to break a sweat and increase the heart rate.

Which you can do with throttle only too.

markz said:

Pedal Assist is just wrong.
Unplug pedal assist and go strictly 100% throttle!
......unless you actually want to break a sweat and increase the heart rate.

Which you can do with throttle only too.

Click to expand...

Holding a throttle in one position for a long duration can be more tiresome than turning your feet over, and less wholesome. When I had a Bafang crank drive, I used the pedals as cruise control.

CAGE RATTLER said:

The standard KT LCD3 or LCD8 and KT controller has more adjustability than what I have but not sure if its enough to do exactly what Im looking to do. For PAS it looked like only a 3 step setting (C14) in the advanced menu with 2 being default and 1 reducing power and 3 raising power. Unless im misunderstanding some of the other options.

Click to expand...

With the LCD3, you can set C5 for 50-100% of the max current, and set C14 for weak,normal, or strong pedal strength. With my bikes, I've left it at 100% and strong assist. Never have tried the lower settings. The max current may have no effect on slower speeds since we're not pulling max. Maybe I'll give it a try tomorrow,

I think there's no need to be playing with custom firmware unless you like to twiddle with settings. That's why I never tried C5 variations. Set it at 100% of current is all I need.

CAGE RATTLER said:

I can use the throttle without pedaling. I can also change the settings to just throttle only, just pedal only or both.
Does that mean my controller will work with CA?

Click to expand...

Yes. To use it with the CA, you would set it up to use throttle only, and set it for all the maximum possible settings for everything.

Then you would connect the PAS and throttle to the CA's inputs, and setup the CA to do any of the limiting you wish the system to have.

Then the CA's throttle output would connect to the controller's throttle input, and hte CA would create the appropriate throttle signal based on all the settings you've put into it, from the throttle and/or PAS input you give it.


I recommend reading the entire full CA3 info page here:
https://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/cycle-analyst-3.html
and it's manual (linked on that page) to get an idea of both what it can do, and what you will have to do to set it up. It's a lot of reading, and will probably take several passes to "get" it all. They also have videos on that page, but I"ve never watched them so I don't know if they have the info you need, but they may make it easier.