I need help, as i dont have anywhere to ask, and no one to help me

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
Balmorhea   1 MW

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Re: I need help, as i dont have anywhere to ask, and no one to help me

Post by Balmorhea » Aug 20 2020 9:38pm

Davidcroatia wrote:
Aug 20 2020 7:14pm
Its not so stripped , but its a little bit stripped, why it has stripped ? Thats why i need cassette adspter...
It probably didn’t get greased when it was originally installed. Maybe the thread was poorly machined on one side or the other.

That motor is only ever going to have a threaded freewheel on it. Cassette gears require a different side cover and a different axle.
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Davidcroatia   100 W

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Re: I need help, as i dont have anywhere to ask, and no one to help me

Post by Davidcroatia » Aug 21 2020 3:55am

Yes thats why im planning to buy leaf motor. Listen what is good sinusoidal brushless motor controller? Will this screen fit most of controllers? HRK 336.90 7%OFF | Electric bicycle accessories K-LCD8H color display ebike electrice bike LCD display
https://a.aliexpress.com/_d8zZaBU and is this a good controller ? HRK 148.98 23%OFF | DC 48V 1500W Electric Bicycle E-bike Scooter Brushless Motor Speed Controller A23 Dropshipping
https://a.aliexpress.com/_d8fAsfG

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E-HP   1 MW

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Re: I need help, as i dont have anywhere to ask, and no one to help me

Post by E-HP » Aug 21 2020 10:38am

Davidcroatia wrote:
Aug 21 2020 3:55am
Yes thats why im planning to buy leaf motor. Listen what is good sinusoidal brushless motor controller? Will this screen fit most of controllers?
No, only KT controllers
Davidcroatia wrote:
Aug 21 2020 3:55am
and is this a good controller ?
Sure, seems like it would meet the requirements you've described so far; you get what you pay for of course.

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Re: I need help, as i dont have anywhere to ask, and no one to help me

Post by Davidcroatia » Aug 21 2020 1:24pm

What would be the best buy controller sinusoidal for 1500w to 2000w? Densored that can run qs and leaf

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Re: I need help, as i dont have anywhere to ask, and no one to help me

Post by E-HP » Aug 21 2020 1:37pm

Davidcroatia wrote:
Aug 21 2020 1:24pm
What would be the best buy controller sinusoidal for 1500w to 2000w? Densored that can run qs and leaf
You probably can't go wrong with a Phaserunner, and will likely have all the features you need.

Davidcroatia   100 W

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Re: I need help, as i dont have anywhere to ask, and no one to help me

Post by Davidcroatia » Aug 22 2020 2:33am

I need something in europe, ps i dont need anything except silence, and what is this controller missing ?


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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: I need help, as i dont have anywhere to ask, and no one to help me

Post by MadRhino » Sep 03 2020 7:41am

There is no best, because every builder has his own requirements and priorities.

Just about any controller will do. The choice is up to you, according with the price that you want to pay and the features that you value the most. About the value for the money, just keep in mind that it is useless to pay for functions, size and power that you don’t need.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

Davidcroatia   100 W

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Re: I need help, as i dont have anywhere to ask, and no one to help me

Post by Davidcroatia » Sep 03 2020 10:49am

My 2 throttle died xd , i was thinking about this one controller

Davidcroatia   100 W

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Re: I need help, as i dont have anywhere to ask, and no one to help me

Post by Davidcroatia » Sep 03 2020 10:50am

HRK 615.85 | Kelly KLS4812S,24V-48V,120A,SINUSOIDAL BRUSHLESS MOTOR CONTROLLER for in-wheel hub motor, powered by SIA
https://a.aliexpress.com/_ms5G583

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: I need help, as i dont have anywhere to ask, and no one to help me

Post by MadRhino » Sep 03 2020 11:05am

120A is much more power than you want, if your goal is long range especially.

You need to buy the programming cable for this controller, to set it to the power that you want to feed.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

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E-HP   1 MW

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Re: I need help, as i dont have anywhere to ask, and no one to help me

Post by E-HP » Sep 03 2020 3:10pm

MadRhino wrote:
Sep 03 2020 11:05am
120A is much more power than you want, if your goal is long range especially.

You need to buy the programming cable for this controller, to set it to the power that you want to feed.
Since the specs say 120A peak (for 20 seconds), 60 continuous motor (phase) current; that seems like it would roughly translate to 30A continuous battery current?

Davidcroatia   100 W

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Re: I need help, as i dont have anywhere to ask, and no one to help me

Post by Davidcroatia » Sep 03 2020 4:26pm

30a current is small right? For lik 1500 up to 2000 is 45amp? Normal current

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E-HP   1 MW

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Re: I need help, as i dont have anywhere to ask, and no one to help me

Post by E-HP » Sep 03 2020 8:02pm

Davidcroatia wrote:
Sep 03 2020 4:26pm
30a current is small right? For lik 1500 up to 2000 is 45amp? Normal current
Whether that's small or big, depends on your requirements, as MadRhino stated.
30A gives you just over 1500W continuous @ 52V. 60A peak gives you 3000W peak @ 52V.

Based on the simulator, you get the same speed, but have more torque for acceleration up to top speed, which looks to be about 40% quicker. At full speed, you're using around 1300W on flat ground.
https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.h ... b=B5220_GA

If you play with the simulator, you can determine what will work for your first, then you can ask a more targeted question about what controller would meet the requirements, instead of adding more details as you go along as folks attempt to help you. Things like budget should be part of your original question, not information added after people invest their time in responding (this type of guidance is included in the stickies, in order for you to get your answers efficiently).

Davidcroatia   100 W

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Re: I need help, as i dont have anywhere to ask, and no one to help me

Post by Davidcroatia » Sep 04 2020 3:25am

I would like to know a lot of stuff, but english is not my native language so sometimes i struggle. I really appreciate all of the things that people do for me. My goal is to go up to 60km/h or maybe a tiny more on a 26 inch , but some stuff i barely understand. Like my goal is to have leaf motor kit 26 inch, but they dont sell sinewawe, and their rated otuput(not max) is i think 21 amp, so that is small. Im having trouble to understand how much max speed can some voltage give up to -example 48v can give on 26 inch 1500w max speed 50km/h , or 52v can give 60km h , then there are amps that give torque ? Also controllers arw confusing me with their rated amps, and peak and stuff. I read every day on this forum, thats why i want leaf, a lot of people say its their favourite, for me qs motor 1000w was the greatest hassle ever, also washers for qs motor doesnt sell anywhere and stuff

Davidcroatia   100 W

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Re: I need help, as i dont have anywhere to ask, and no one to help me

Post by Davidcroatia » Sep 04 2020 3:25am

I would like to have 6t that is more torque but also i can go on hills?

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: I need help, as i dont have anywhere to ask, and no one to help me

Post by MadRhino » Sep 04 2020 10:47am

Speed and voltage relation is in motor winding. The motor KV (speed per volt) need to match the speed that you want for the voltage and tire size that you chose. Yet, keep in mind that faster does consume more. Faster acceleration, faster top speed, are the ennemies of long range.

About torque: watts are power, no matter the winding. A slower winding only has its efficiency zone at lower speed, making it more economical in acceleration for the time that you are not yet at efficient speed of a faster winding. But, since they both have the same weight of copper, they have the same torque potential. The only way to improve the torque of a motor (after it is fed watts close to saturation) is gearing it down. Gearing down a hub motor, is lacing it in a smaller wheel.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

Balmorhea   1 MW

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Re: I need help, as i dont have anywhere to ask, and no one to help me

Post by Balmorhea » Sep 04 2020 11:04am

MadRhino wrote:
Sep 04 2020 10:47am
About torque: watts are power, no matter the winding. A slower winding only has its efficiency zone at lower speed, making it more economical in acceleration for the time that you are not yet at efficient speed of a faster winding. But, since they both have the same weight of copper, they have the same torque potential.
While it’s true in theory that different windings have the same maximum torque potential, there are a couple of caveats. 1) Most of us don’t drive our motors to saturation, or anywhere close to it, and 2) it gets expensive and inconvenient to use high current.

Watts are power, as you say, which means when the winding turns half as fast, you get twice the torque per amp. So the same 1500W controller does give you more torque, even though the motor’s theoretical maximum torque is unchanged.
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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: I need help, as i dont have anywhere to ask, and no one to help me

Post by MadRhino » Sep 04 2020 3:24pm

Balmorhea wrote:
Sep 04 2020 11:04am
MadRhino wrote:
Sep 04 2020 10:47am
About torque: watts are power, no matter the winding. A slower winding only has its efficiency zone at lower speed, making it more economical in acceleration for the time that you are not yet at efficient speed of a faster winding. But, since they both have the same weight of copper, they have the same torque potential.
While it’s true in theory that different windings have the same maximum torque potential, there are a couple of caveats. 1) Most of us don’t drive our motors to saturation, or anywhere close to it, and 2) it gets expensive and inconvenient to use high current.

Watts are power, as you say, which means when the winding turns half as fast, you get twice the torque per amp. So the same 1500W controller does give you more torque, even though the motor’s theoretical maximum torque is unchanged.
Motor Kv is not a gearing. You should run your theory in the ebike simulator. Then you will see the loss of ´torque per Amp’ of a faster Kv, and for how long in acceleration the lower Kv has a (small) torque advantage.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

Balmorhea   1 MW

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Re: I need help, as i dont have anywhere to ask, and no one to help me

Post by Balmorhea » Sep 04 2020 9:19pm

MadRhino wrote:
Sep 04 2020 3:24pm
Motor Kv is not a gearing. You should run your theory in the ebike simulator. Then you will see the loss of ´torque per Amp’ of a faster Kv, and for how long in acceleration the lower Kv has a (small) torque advantage.
Screenshot_20200904-211509.png
Screenshot_20200904-211509.png (336.32 KiB) Viewed 379 times
I dunno; it sure looks like wads more torque to me. I know which one of those two systems would be more fun to ride, and better at getting up a hill.
Screenshot_20200904-212427.png
Screenshot_20200904-212427.png (103.77 KiB) Viewed 377 times
It also looks like one of them is substantially more efficient, despite having the same basic motor architecture.
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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: I need help, as i dont have anywhere to ask, and no one to help me

Post by MadRhino » Sep 04 2020 9:38pm

Balmorhea wrote:
Sep 04 2020 9:19pm
MadRhino wrote:
Sep 04 2020 3:24pm
Motor Kv is not a gearing. You should run your theory in the ebike simulator. Then you will see the loss of ´torque per Amp’ of a faster Kv, and for how long in acceleration the lower Kv has a (small) torque advantage.
Screenshot_20200904-211509.png

I dunno; it sure looks like wads more torque to me. I know which one of those two systems would be more fun to ride, and better at getting up a hill.

Screenshot_20200904-212427.png

It also looks like one of them is substantially more efficient, despite having the same basic motor architecture.

Looks more realistic to me:
BED7D906-D360-4A36-ACF3-2B36818AF9D4.jpeg
BED7D906-D360-4A36-ACF3-2B36818AF9D4.jpeg (156.68 KiB) Viewed 376 times
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

Balmorhea   1 MW

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Location: Austin

Re: I need help, as i dont have anywhere to ask, and no one to help me

Post by Balmorhea » Sep 04 2020 9:47pm

MadRhino wrote:
Sep 04 2020 9:38pm
Balmorhea wrote:
Sep 04 2020 9:19pm
MadRhino wrote:
Sep 04 2020 3:24pm
Motor Kv is not a gearing. You should run your theory in the ebike simulator. Then you will see the loss of ´torque per Amp’ of a faster Kv, and for how long in acceleration the lower Kv has a (small) torque advantage.
Screenshot_20200904-211509.png

I dunno; it sure looks like wads more torque to me. I know which one of those two systems would be more fun to ride, and better at getting up a hill.

Screenshot_20200904-212427.png

It also looks like one of them is substantially more efficient, despite having the same basic motor architecture.

Looks more realistic to me:

BED7D906-D360-4A36-ACF3-2B36818AF9D4.jpeg
But which will be the cheaper, more widely available, and more legally inconspicuous controller and battery? All these factors can make a project more realistic.
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Davidcroatia   100 W

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Re: I need help, as i dont have anywhere to ask, and no one to help me

Post by Davidcroatia » Sep 05 2020 3:29am

Im sorry, im still confused about all. Yesterday one guy told some guy that if you have 48v 20ah 30amp bms- that will work on 1500w system. Good manager from upp told me it wont work, i mean it will but it will burn up i think, like controller draws lets say 40amp and bms is 30 what happens? Longterm ? Btw why is 48v 20ah 50amp bms , and why 52v 20ah 40amp bms?

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: I need help, as i dont have anywhere to ask, and no one to help me

Post by MadRhino » Sep 05 2020 11:46am

Balmorhea wrote:
Sep 04 2020 9:47pm
MadRhino wrote:
Sep 04 2020 9:38pm
Looks more realistic to me:

BED7D906-D360-4A36-ACF3-2B36818AF9D4.jpeg
But which will be the cheaper, more widely available, and more legally inconspicuous controller and battery? All these factors can make a project more realistic.
What I meant, is that you are showing the simulation for a motor that is not available, in a winding that is more than double the speed, with a controller that is too small for it. That, is not realistic. Even with another similar motor, nobody would power a 26 lbs motor with a 20A controller.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

Balmorhea   1 MW

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Why the torque per amp discrepancy?

Post by Balmorhea » Sep 05 2020 12:28pm

MadRhino wrote:
Sep 05 2020 11:46am
What I meant, is that you are showing the simulation for a motor that is not available, in a winding that is more than double the speed, with a controller that is too small for it. That, is not realistic. Even with another similar motor, nobody would power a 26 lbs motor with a 20A controller.
It was a quick illustration of winding by itself multiplying output torque by more than 2X. I picked that motor because it’s one that has a large % variation of winding available in the simulator.

These results do raise the question: Why does a change in winding affect torque more in some cases than in others? Is it the controller multiplying phase current more for a low impedance motor? Torque per amp fed to the motor should vary in more or less direct proportion to the number of turns, given the same copper fill. So when that doesn’t happen, is it only the controller trading amps for volts, or is there something else at work?
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