Disaster today, almost set two fires with BBSHD and 52v batteries

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
ryan1685   100 W

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Re: Disaster today, almost set two fires with BBSHD and 52v batteries

Post by ryan1685 » May 15 2021 7:37pm

fatty wrote:
May 15 2021 7:25pm
ryan1685 wrote:
May 15 2021 7:02pm
Drop it already man. Stop trying to pick apart a bad analogy.
You kept running with your own bad analogy, and frankly, sounding silly:
ryan1685 wrote:
May 15 2021 4:55pm
With DC, there is no popped breaker .just spark and flames .
DC doesn't "just spark and flame".

ryan1685 wrote:
May 15 2021 7:02pm
While you read books and watch YouTube videos , I actually try crap.

Like blowing up ebikes and then blaming DC?

Mainly blaming it on engineering shortcuts that seem to be pretty common with chineese product as a means to cut costs. I guess you are a big Edison fan. I love dc. I have a 600ah dc set up in my camper using 4 6v Trojan batteries. Along with a 3000 watt inverter. Can run my entire camper and all the outlets off the sun including my keriug and ac. I hate cheap chineese shit.


ryan1685   100 W

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Re: Disaster today, almost set two fires with BBSHD and 52v batteries

Post by ryan1685 » May 15 2021 7:43pm

MadRhino wrote:
May 15 2021 7:12pm
The first thing I would check is the XT90 to Anderson adapter, that could be shorted because the XT connectors are soldered with + and- wires very close together, or reversed because a stupid mistake installing Andersons housing colors can make you plugging them reversed polarity.

I don’t know about the display connector and how it could affect the current or polarity on the main power wires, but I find this a lesser probable cause.
The only other thing I can relate it to is the charging method I used on my old battery before going on a 40km ride. I am experimenting with a boost mppt charge controller charging my batteries directly with the controller using a 320 watt folding solar panel, instead of the supplied charger. Set the boost to 58.8 volts, but seeing the panel is only 18v, the boost controller struggled to charge it above 58v - I guess the larger the gap between your required boost voltage and the voltage of the panel, the less efficient the rate of charge is . Was only charging at 80 watts even though I was using a 320 watt panel. But, it makes no sense why this would cause problems when I put the new battery on after the 40km ride . I charged the new battery only with the supplied charger

fatty   10 kW

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Re: Disaster today, almost set two fires with BBSHD and 52v batteries

Post by fatty » May 15 2021 7:52pm

ryan1685 wrote:
May 15 2021 7:37pm
Mainly blaming it on engineering shortcuts that seem to be pretty common with chineese product as a means to cut costs.
What engineering shortcut caused these failures?
The data connector is keyed, and can only be mis-inserted by bending pins.

ryan1685   100 W

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Re: Disaster today, almost set two fires with BBSHD and 52v batteries

Post by ryan1685 » May 15 2021 8:10pm

fatty wrote:
May 15 2021 7:52pm
ryan1685 wrote:
May 15 2021 7:37pm
Mainly blaming it on engineering shortcuts that seem to be pretty common with chineese product as a means to cut costs.
What engineering shortcut caused these failures?
The data connector is keyed, and can only be mis-inserted by bending pins.
Its engineered to break. You would think they would use something more rigid. And considering that ebikes are used by old people - whos hands aren't the steadyiest , it is easy to mis-align the plugs before plugging them together. This is on top of the fact that the thing ignites when x,y and z pins are collapsed on each other after plugging in the battery. I would like to recreate this event, but don't want to waste another controller and bms. I would like to see the outcome if other pins were collapsed .

markz   100 GW

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Re: Disaster today, almost set two fires with BBSHD and 52v batteries

Post by markz » May 15 2021 8:24pm

Thats funny claiming engineering and not cheaping out, profit margins and the illusion of a rugged plug & play connector.
When I had a kit with that plug, the entire connector bent in short time because can't always unplug it straight up, especially when tired and changing a tire.

ryan1685   100 W

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Re: Disaster today, almost set two fires with BBSHD and 52v batteries

Post by ryan1685 » May 15 2021 8:37pm

markz wrote:
May 15 2021 8:24pm
Thats funny claiming engineering and not cheaping out, profit margins and the illusion of a rugged plug & play connector.
When I had a kit with that plug, the entire connector bent in short time because can't always unplug it straight up, especially when tired and changing a tire.
My plugs essentially fell apart after plugging and unplugging them hundreds of times. Every time I load it on my bike rack on my truck, I have to take the battery off. Engineering, designed, no need for pedantics. Cheap either way

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Disaster today, almost set two fires with BBSHD and 52v batteries

Post by MadRhino » May 15 2021 8:39pm

The method used to charge a battery doesn’t make it any more likely to short or reverse polarity. Charge it solar in a week, or with big PSU’s in 10 minutes, when it is charged it is charged and exactly the same. I would guess thst most BMS have protections against reverse polarity and short, or even those that don’t would fry before the battery does suffer any significant damage.

So either your mistake plugging the display connector did cause the controller to short the main power circuit, or the XT90 to Anderson adapter was at fault. I am always looking for the most simple cause in a diagnostic procedure. Eliminate the most simple things first, does make you save a lot of time and questioning.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.

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nicobie   1 GW

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Re: Disaster today, almost set two fires with BBSHD and 52v batteries

Post by nicobie » May 15 2021 8:41pm

What do you all think? Should this thread be locked for a couple of days until Ryan gets a meter?

It seems to be going downhill fast. :kff:
Take it easy... but take it. (Woody Guthrie)

my eTownie build thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=23701
Magazine article https://www.electricbike.com/nicks-etownie/

ryan1685   100 W

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Re: Disaster today, almost set two fires with BBSHD and 52v batteries

Post by ryan1685 » May 15 2021 8:45pm

MadRhino wrote:
May 15 2021 8:39pm
The method used to charge a battery doesn’t make it any more likely to short or reverse polarity. Charge it solar in a week, or with big PSU’s in 10 minutes, when it is charged it is charged and exactly the same. I would guess thst most BMS have protections against reverse polarity and short, or even those that don’t would fry before the battery does suffer any significant damage.

So either your mistake plugging the display connector did cause the controller to short the main power circuit, or the XT90 to Anderson adapter was at fault. I am always looking for the most simple cause in a diagnostic procedure. Eliminate the most simple things first, does make you save a lot of time and questioning.
Charges in about 12 hours when really low it charges at 110 watts. If I have proper panels maybe 5 hours. When you are off grid in the woods, we will see how good the psu works. Thanks for the advice

I never knew I could find a place more toxic than reddit, but here it is. Congrats.

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Disaster today, almost set two fires with BBSHD and 52v batteries

Post by MadRhino » May 16 2021 1:35am

A PSU does work like a charger, only more flexible. Meanwell Power supplies have a pretty wide range of voltage adjustment, they can be assembled in a series to make any voltage that you need. Some models can be paralleled, making the power required to charge very fast. Of course, that should be according to the charging C-rate of your cells. I find a great advantage bulk charging fast, using high C-rate RC lipo, no BMS, no balancing, using big Meanwells. It does suit my riding habits: frequent fast short rides and charging many times a day.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: Disaster today, almost set two fires with BBSHD and 52v batteries

Post by john61ct » May 16 2021 12:17pm

You keep saying that connectors came from Luna.

Does it follow from that that the should have been reliable, correctly built and safe?

999zip999   100 GW

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Re: Disaster today, almost set two fires with BBSHD and 52v batteries

Post by 999zip999 » May 16 2021 1:04pm

A multimeter is your best friend you use it before you plug in anything in especially the battery. If that bent pin would have been shorted it would have been melted that's my assessment.

Kiwago   1 µW

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Re: Disaster today, almost set two fires with BBSHD and 52v batteries

Post by Kiwago » May 20 2021 6:44am

What I have learned before building ebikes is that you should try to test everythink. Multimeter first to check connectors cables etc. Than before first start of the e-bike I use the charger as power source. It has surge protection and it is way cheaper to fry charger than battery. I simply made an connector Xlr to XT90 and plug charger as battery. I built 4 ebikes so far and It worked for me everytime.

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