Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
RunForTheHills   100 W

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by RunForTheHills » Jun 04 2021 2:17pm

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics." - Mark Twain :wink:

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by Chalo » Jun 04 2021 4:45pm

Those are not whole population studies, so they suffer various degrees of selection bias. A perfect example of that is the often-quoted Thompson Rivara & Thompson "study" that count bicycle helmets "reduce chance of injury by 85%!!!".

What they don't quote is that the so-called study included only a couple dozen children who were treated at a single hospital in Seattle. When you scratch the surface of these things, you find that kind of indefensible nonsense all over the place because the (industry-supported) researchers start, like you, from the premise that helmets are self-evidently beneficial... so we'll make the results show that.

Look at the whole population numbers, and you see that helmets don't help overall.
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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by qwerkus » Jun 04 2021 5:13pm

This is an interesting discussion. While I don't agree 100% with chalo, I must admit he has a point. As a discussion base, I'd like to cite the swiss institute for injury statistic as insurances and statistics are kind of a national hobby there.
The results are quite surprising: 84% of all bike injuries in that little country turn out to be the result of the cyclist own poor judgement. No helmet is ever going to protect against that. Now according to the same statistics, 17% of all bike accidents end up with head injuries, and wearing a helmet "greatly reduces the severity of the injuries to the head". (There is no number). An interesting german article also points out the cyclists wearing a helmet are more often involved into accidents, not because god punishes them but because they are more risk friendly while riding.

Note that there are big variations according to age-groups considered: plenty of studies point to the crucial safety impact of helmet for children, because head injuries amongst them are a lot more common than in adults, and a similar effect is observed amongst the elderly (65+).

Personally, I do wear a helmet whenever I can, mostly because of insurance considerations: most accident protection policies around here cover cyclists only if they wear a helmet! So far it never protected me against anything during the few accidents I had (knee, legs, arms and back injuries), but I was lucky so far no to be involved in heavy life threatening stuff, probably also because I rarely ride faster than 30-35kmph (21mph).

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by Chalo » Jun 04 2021 5:46pm

qwerkus wrote:
Jun 04 2021 5:13pm
An interesting german article also points out the cyclists wearing a helmet are more often involved into accidents, not because god punishes them but because they are more risk friendly while riding.
And of course because wearing a helmet reduces situational awareness by making noise and blind spots. And because motorists are more careless/aggressive to cyclists who wear helmets.
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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by TDB » Jun 04 2021 7:58pm

Chalo wrote:
Jun 04 2021 11:58am
TDB wrote:
Jun 04 2021 11:51am
Sources?
Here's a good digest, with lots of references:
https://www.cyclehelmets.org/

Whole population data is often just there for the googling. E.g., "cycling deaths usa 2019"

https://colvilleandersen.medium.com/the ... d6c4ae3ed2

1_04aut1b83dsEFG2fWQfJyA.jpeg
Meh, I asked for references to support your assertions. You cite noise and tell me to do my own research.

I am not sure if you are the forum troll or the village idiot.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by Chalo » Jun 04 2021 8:03pm

TDB wrote:
Jun 04 2021 7:58pm
Chalo wrote:
Jun 04 2021 11:58am
TDB wrote:
Jun 04 2021 11:51am
Sources?
Here's a good digest, with lots of references:
https://www.cyclehelmets.org/

Whole population data is often just there for the googling. E.g., "cycling deaths usa 2019"

https://colvilleandersen.medium.com/the ... d6c4ae3ed2

1_04aut1b83dsEFG2fWQfJyA.jpeg
Meh, I asked for references to support your assertions. You cite noise and tell me to do my own research.

I am not sure if you are the forum troll or the village idiot.
I've been dealing with this helmet nonsense for more than a quarter century now, and not all the sources I have found over that time are at my fingertips. But many of them are cited at cyclehelmets.org which is why I furnished you that link. It's very scrupulous, unlike helmet promoting "researchers" who are in the employ, directly or indirectly, of Bell Sports or other politically activist helmet manufacturers.

Good faith players don't sponsor bogus research with preordained conclusions, nor lobby for laws to require you to buy what they're selling. But clearly they have taken you in.
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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by sleepy_tired » Jun 04 2021 8:50pm

My understanding of the subject is that helmets do reduce the chance of significant head injury during a accident significantly. However they slightly increase the chances of neck and spine injury.

The downside is that wearing helmets and safety gear actually increases the likelihood of being in a accident.

Why?

Careful thinking is way too slow way to react to real life situations. So people are required to use their emotions to judge situations on the fly. Which means they depend on "fast/quick/heuristic/emotional" part of the brain when it comes to assessing risk.

If you feel safe because you are wearing a helmet and other protective gear you are much more likely to engage in behavior that will get you hurt.

This is the fundamental problem of all "Safety Culture" and isn't something that is isolated to riding bicycles. When people feel safe they are more prone to stupid choices and taking unnecessary risk. So as you increase safety measures you are also decreasing people's level of caution. After a certain point improving safety becomes counter productive.

You see this in food, for example. Governments inspect meat packing plants and give certifications for organic labels and give out nutrition information. So people feel safe just buying whatever the hell they feel like when they go to the store because it's all safe and regulated right? If it's "organic" or "grade A" or packaged by some mega corporation that is big and highly regulated, then it's fine, right? Well, obviously, this is wrong. And when you think about it's very obviously wrong. But on a emotional level when you are hungry and you see a fast food or easy pickings at a grocery store we just tend to grab whatever and unless we are careful it can become habit and a way to slowly poison ourselves. Diabetes, hardening arteries, more prone to getting damage from respiratory diseases, shitty moods and depression, etc etc.

When it comes to bicycling the most important safety gear is what is between your ears. It is that way for a lot of things.

I have found that whenever engaging in any sort of behavior that involves risk it's always better to be slightly uncomfortable emotional-wise. This way you stay sharp.

As far as full face helmets go... I would never wear one on a bicycle.

Why?

Because riding bicycles are a athletic activity. And your head is a radiator. I am more paranoid about getting my judgement impaired or becoming dizzy and doing something stupid from overheating then inadvertently face planting because of some loose gravel or blown tire.

Plus I want to enjoy my ride. I want to see everything, hear everything, feel the air, etc.

If I am going motorcycle speeds and engaging in very little physical activity, beyond just holding on, then yeah I will wear a full face helmet.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by Chalo » Jun 04 2021 10:00pm

sleepy_tired wrote:
Jun 04 2021 8:50pm
The downside is that wearing helmets and safety gear actually increases the likelihood of being in a accident.
That's surely why they don't make a positive difference in public safety overall. It's probably also why people don't wear helmets for other things where they would be of apparent benefit, like working on ladders and roofs, walking in wet or icy conditions, etc. Helmets are specifically engineered to provide quantifiable protection (and they do), but we're not designed to function with them on our heads. So we underperform, and bad things happen. In millions of years of iterative development, we would certainly have evolved a helmet-like feature if it was a net win. But the net win is what we already have as original equipment.
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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by TDB » Jun 04 2021 10:17pm

I wonder how the anti helmet faction would feel about a small child riding without a helmet. Responsible or irresponsible parents?

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by Chalo » Jun 04 2021 10:34pm

TDB wrote:
Jun 04 2021 10:17pm
I wonder how the anti helmet faction would feel about a small child riding without a helmet. Responsible or irresponsible parents?
Every single person in my generation would have grown up that way and probably would not give it a second thought, unless they're neurotic. Remember, bicycle helmets were for kooks until about 1990. Even a lot of professional racers didn't wear them.

Children rarely go much faster than adult jogging speed on their bikes. They also manage to bust ass spectacularly while walking or running, but it's not considered normal to helmet your kid for walking or running.
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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by Ianhill » Jun 04 2021 10:43pm

A very good point was made a pushbike requires you wear a helmet.

Roger bannister broke the 3 minute mile on foot and he had on as little as possible to aid his cooling didnt see a helmet on him.

Its back to risk assessments again and the area within the risk is conducted, common trend in wales now is for joggers to run down the road thinking they like a cyclist but with no helmet game while in a live lane its a JOKE cyclists go 2 abreast law permits them to block the road and the lycra brigade get arsy about it too any cars get near them they hit them.

I shit you not i watched a biker get roudy with a car driver after blocking him for half a mile the car driver went round him and the biker struke his car he if did the driver slammed on got out and dropped him one gooden to the chin id if done the same too the push biker was been a prick road hogging and banging on the guys pasenger door to me if a car user done that with his car he would lose his licence and the right to keep using the road.

The answer is to separate the 2 and runners join the cyclists until thats done death will keep happening.

Theres a stretch of road 10 mile from me called the black bends every year theres death and many crashed on these fast pace bends but the lycra brigade feel no danger ride 2 abreast it jeeps them safe they believe but tell that to the 3 bikers thats died on that road they tell you how a car doesnt alwsy habe to be driven by a reckless teen just a simple set of blind bends leading to no forward vision and a speed limit set to high since before i was born 35 years the area has a dark past and theres places like this globally way too many i say times time on thinking computer Ai can solve this problem the car still reacts on the road with the same times the tyres dont grio more or the brakes any faster push bikers WILL still be killed and the machine has already claimed bikers and iys only just got the go ahead in uk crazy were putting a killing machine behind the wheel to replace a killing machine when 2 killing machines are better than 1 surely but tesla shows you offer the choice and they will piss about video themselfs find away to defeat the system.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by Ianhill » Jun 04 2021 10:45pm

If i took my child (if i had one) down the park no cars in sight i wouldnt make them helmet up but like i used to ride in the roads as a kid its a complete different world with golf r 400bhp blast about so id tell them not to ride the roads at all use bike tracks and foot paths

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by TDB » Jun 04 2021 11:17pm

Ianhill wrote:
Jun 04 2021 10:43pm
A very good point was made a pushbike requires you wear a helmet.

Roger bannister broke the 3 minute mile on foot and he had on as little as possible to aid his cooling didnt see a helmet on him.

Its back to risk assessments again and the area within the risk is conducted, common trend in wales now is for joggers to run down the road thinking they like a cyclist but with no helmet game while in a live lane its a JOKE cyclists go 2 abreast law permits them to block the road and the lycra brigade get arsy about it too any cars get near them they hit them.

I shit you not i watched a biker get roudy with a car driver after blocking him for half a mile the car driver went round him and the biker struke his car he if did the driver slammed on got out and dropped him one gooden to the chin id if done the same too the push biker was been a prick road hogging and banging on the guys pasenger door to me if a car user done that with his car he would lose his licence and the right to keep using the road.

The answer is to separate the 2 and runners join the cyclists until thats done death will keep happening.

Theres a stretch of road 10 mile from me called the black bends every year theres death and many crashed on these fast pace bends but the lycra brigade feel no danger ride 2 abreast it jeeps them safe they believe but tell that to the 3 bikers thats died on that road they tell you how a car doesnt alwsy habe to be driven by a reckless teen just a simple set of blind bends leading to no forward vision and a speed limit set to high since before i was born 35 years the area has a dark past and theres places like this globally way too many i say times time on thinking computer Ai can solve this problem the car still reacts on the road with the same times the tyres dont grio more or the brakes any faster push bikers WILL still be killed and the machine has already claimed bikers and iys only just got the go ahead in uk crazy were putting a killing machine behind the wheel to replace a killing machine when 2 killing machines are better than 1 surely but tesla shows you offer the choice and they will piss about video themselfs find away to defeat the system.

You don't like cyclists.

Average cager doesn't see a difference between you and them.

And how about the poor behaviour of ebike riders on shared paths... which cyclists mostly avoid.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by Ianhill » Jun 04 2021 11:29pm

I'm a cyclist just i have a respect for danger and keep my arse well away from them lanes.

You raised a good point mind idiots will be idiots were ever they drive put them on a kids tractor ride on and they still play up.

Theres also the privaliaged type that dont see it as cheating death but your less than me give way pesant.

I wish the world was simple black and white but reality puts technicolour to shame.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by MadRhino » Jun 05 2021 1:43am

TDB wrote:
Jun 04 2021 10:17pm
I wonder how the anti helmet faction would feel about a small child riding without a helmet. Responsible or irresponsible parents?
There is no anti helmet faction.
Helmets are like condoms.
There are many who don’t wear any, but none of them ever told others not to wear one.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by larsb » Jun 05 2021 3:12am

Have worked as a bike messenger and rode bikes 15000km per year for some years: winter ice, rain or sunshine. Raced mtb and road bikes. I have been saved by the helmet a few times: cracked two bike helmets in half, one motorcycle helmet.

In my opinion saying it’s not beneficial (or needed) below 20mph (in any country) is simply not true.

Ice, wet leaves, careless drivers, train tracks. Hell, just a pine cone can bring you down when out of luck.
Even the spanish slugs here have sent me skidding at one time, munching in groups on the slime of their dead relatives. I bet it was that Ron character that was to blame.
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Stay safe friends! Let each make their personal choice of attire, i made mine based on my experiences.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by dogman dan » Jun 05 2021 6:12am

The same old helmet debate is just so fun.

What really amuses me is the way people latch on to whether it will save your life or not. I guess that goes back to how they sell helmets, seat belts, air bags in cars, etc.

My personal experience is a bit different. Hard to say if any of the crashes that destroyed helmets would have been fatal. I suspect not, as I said, I refuse to let cars hit me. So my wrecks are laydowns dirt or street, over the bars and high sides in the dirt. I never got dumb enough to ride into a bridge support or phone pole, as my dead friends did.

To me the big deal is PPE makes these more minor boo boos a LOT more comfortable. THATS why I wear my helmets, and armor if its not to hot to stand it. I know I will be sliding on the pavement again one of these days.

Again, its my mind set as I ride. Careful, but having a f---ing great time. All those work hours, just f---ing careful as hell.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by larsb » Jun 05 2021 7:00am

It’s just a scaling thing. If it saves you a little in a small crash it might just save you a lot in a bigger one. Pretty sure my concussions would’ve been head trauma without those helmets.. it takes down the accelerations a lot.

Energy=force*distance

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by DogDipstick » Jun 05 2021 8:03am

Chalo wrote:
Jun 04 2021 10:00pm
sleepy_tired wrote:
Jun 04 2021 8:50pm
The downside is that wearing helmets and safety gear actually increases the likelihood of being in a accident.
That's surely why they don't make a positive difference in public safety overall. It's probably also why people don't wear helmets for other things where they would be of apparent benefit, like working on ladders and roofs, walking in wet or icy conditions, etc.
BAHAHAHAH

They do. You are wrong. You dont see enough ladders or roofs. What i did I just say bout that? You obviously never made any commercial money in your life. ALL COMMERCIAL CONSTRUCTION REQUIRES HATS. We are not allowed on site alot of time if we dont have them. We do big contracting. We get in and out and have the run of the shut down factories all night. We are insured for millions. I could drive an excavator through a warehouse and it would be paid for.. IF... I was wearing a helmet at the time.
That's surely why they don't make a positive difference in public safety overall.
YOU ARE VERY WRONG. Bahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahaha.

There is more commercial money and business in the world than private. Lol I bet you never even seen an Osha guy. Lol.

"("RUN! OSHA GUY IS HERE! RUN FER YER LIVES>>> !)

You dont ride enough to know its worth it. You should. THen you would know. Go out and get a few more miles on ya: Dont be underrepresented.

Logic being infallible, we all know the MotoGp riders, expert riders, ALL dont wear a helmet cause it is not worthwhile and takes your attentions. We all know OSHA does NOT require hardhats in factories. We all Know the flab barriers mean nothing to tmy ten temps who work 6 feet away from the edge.. and

Honeywell is wasting alot of money making harnesses. Duh. You ever been sued for negligence ? Lol I have. $170,ooo. Arbitration. All insurance lawyer money. Paid up in full.

Jesus Christ, most dangerous job in the world, ( construction), most dangerous place ( roofs) and you think a hardhat is not a requirement. Lol. Well, it is, and I would have to send you home if you dont have one at the beginnning of the day. Along with the gloves, glasses, boots, and earplugs. The flags the boxxes the work permits, the cones and teh barriers we set up.

I'll get the actual rule if you thinkgk I am wrong. Stats. References.

Insurance companies study it. Dont you know that? It is economical for them. Cause injury is expensive.

Jesus Christ this guy thinks helmets are not required for climbing ladders. EVERYBODY one my crew wears teh hat. EVERYBODY. They can see just fine. They still get the job done, and if they cannot see cause a hat is on their head, they are gone the next day. New temp in their place. With boots and a hat.

That is just about all ya need to know to work in my crew. You dont even need English.. just show up with boots and a hat. Lol tempos.

Bahahah that is funny. ONe love Chal, but they are worn, on ladders, every day, as a legal requirement, studied and reasserted teh efficacy time and again... by a myriad of insurance studies... yet you decide to ignore this FACT and assert you are correct. Your assertion is incorrect.

Lol. Everybody on site wears the ahrdhad, man, we are construction workers.. the most dangerous.. of the most dangeous..

Roofing. Centimark ( BIGGEST ROOFER IN THE USA) dont give a F about what the labor can see, or not.. They care about the job getting done and the insurance bottom line. They hire us cause they know we know that. We have ( a billion in $ of?) insurance cause the people we hire, whether killed or maimed, for living al long life.. were wearing a hat when on site.

More people wear hardhats on roofs than not, friend. Maybe you only see the little residential picture of your world.. I dont know. I know I have been in engineering and construction for 22 years.. and hardhats were here before me.


Grrr wear your helmet kids.

I know I have been around the block.

This is the list of Findings in section 12.1 (pages 416-419) of the Hurt Report. READ IT RIGHT NOW CHALO.
Throughout the accident and exposure data there are special observations which relate to accident and injury causation and characteristics of the motorcycle accidents studied. These findings are summarized as follows:

Approximately three-fourths of these motorcycle accidents involved collision with another vehicle, which was most usually a passenger automobile.

Approximately one-fourth of these motorcycle accidents were single vehicle accidents involving the motorcycle colliding with the roadway or some fixed object in the environment.

Vehicle failure accounted for less than 3% of these motorcycle accidents, and most of those were single vehicle accidents where control was lost due to a puncture flat.

In the single vehicle accidents, motorcycle rider error was present as the accident precipitating factor in about two-thirds of the cases, with the typical error being a slide-out and fall due to overbraking or running wide on a curve due to excess speed or under-cornering.

Roadway defects (pavement ridges, potholes, etc.) were the accident cause in 2% of the accidents; animal involvement was 1% of the accidents.

In the multiple vehicle accidents, the driver of the other vehicle violated the motorcycle right-of-way and caused the accident in two-thirds of those accidents.

The failure of motorists to detect and recognize motorcycles in traffic is the predominating cause of motorcycle accidents. The driver of the other vehicle involved in collision with the motorcycle did not see the motorcycle before the collision, or did not see the motorcycle until too late to avoid the collision.

Deliberate hostile action by a motorist against a motorcycle rider is a rare accident cause.

The most frequent accident configuration is the motorcycle proceeding straight then the automobile makes a left turn in front of the oncoming motorcycle.

Intersections are the most likely place for the motorcycle accident, with the other vehicle violating the motorcycle right-of-way, and often violating traffic controls.

Weather is not a factor in 98% of motorcycle accidents.

Most motorcycle accidents involve a short trip associated with shopping, errands, friends, entertainment or recreation, and the accident is likely to happen in very short time close to the trip origin.

The view of the motorcycle or the other vehicle involved in the accident is limited by glare or obstructed by other vehicles in almost half of the multiple vehicle accidents.

Conspicuity of the motorcycle is a critical factor in the multiple vehicle accidents, and accident involvement is significantly reduced by the use of motorcycle headlamps-on In daylight and the wearing of high visibility yellow, orange or bright red jackets.

Fuel system leaks and spills are present in 62% of the motorcycle accidents in the post-crash phase. This represents an undue hazard for fire.

The median pre-crash speed was 29.8 mph, and the median crash speed was 21.5 mph, and the one-in-a-thousand crash speed is approximately 86 mph-

The typical motorcycle pre-crash lines-of-sight to the traffic hazard portray no contribution of the limits of peripheral vision; more than three fourths of all accident hazards are within 45° of either side of straight ahead.

Conspicuity of the motorcycle is most critical for the frontal surfaces of the motorcycle and rider.

Vehicle defects related to accident causation are rare and likely to be due to deficient or defective maintenance.

Motorcycle riders between the ages of 16 and 24 are significantly Overrepresented in accidents; motorcycle riders between the ages of 30 and 50 are significantly underrepresented.

Although the majority of the accident-involved motorcycle riders are male (96%), the female motorcycle riders are significantly overrepresented in the accident data.

Craftsmen, laborers and students comprise most of the accident-involved motorcycle riders but the professionals, sales workers and craftsmen are underrepresented and the laborers, students and unemployed are overrepresented in the accidents.

Motorcycle riders with previous recent traffic citations and accidents are overrepresented in the accident data.

The motorcycle riders involved in accidents are essentially without training; 92% were self-taught or learned from family or friends. Motorcycle rider training experience reduces accident involvement and is related to reduced injuries in the event of accidents.

More than half of the accident-involved motorcycle riders had less than 5 months experience on the accident motorcycle, although the total street riding experience was almost 3 years. Motorcycle riders with dirt bike experience are significantly underrepresented in the accident data.

Lack of attention to the driving task is a common factor for the motorcyclist in an accident.

Almost half of the fatal accidents show alcohol involvement.

Motorcycle riders in these accidents showed significant collision avoidance problems. Most riders would overbrake and skid the rear wheel, and underbrake the front wheel greatly reducing collision avoidance deceleration. The ability to countersteer and swerve was essentially absent.

The typical motorcycle accident allows the motorcyclist just less than 2 seconds to complete all collision avoidance action.

Passenger carrying motorcycles are not overrepresented in the accident data.

The drivers of the other vehicle involved in collision with the motorcycle are not distinguished from other accident populations except that the ages of 20 to 29, and beyond 65 are overrepresented. Also, these drivers are generally unfamiliar with motorcycles.

The large displacement motorcycles are underrepresented in accidents but they are associated with higher injury severity when involved in accidents.

Any effect of motorcycle color on accident involvement is not determinable from these data, but is expected to be insignificant because the frontal surfaces are most often presented to the other vehicle involved in the collision.

Motorcycles equipped with fairings and windshields are underrepresented in accidents, most likely because of the contribution to conspicuity and the association with more experienced and trained riders.

Motorcycle riders in these accidents were significantly without motorcycle license, without any license, or with license revoked.

Motorcycle modifications such as those associated with the Semi-Chopper or Cafe Racer are definitely overrepresented in accidents.

The likelihood of injury is extremely high in these motorcycle accidents; 98% of the multiple vehicle collisions and 96% of the single vehicle accidents resulted in some kind of injury to the motorcycle rider; 45% resulted in more than a minor injury.

Half of the injuries to the somatic regions were to the ankle-foot, lower leg, knee, and thigh-upper leg.

Crash bars are not an effective injury countermeasure; the reduction of injury to the ankle-foot is balanced by increase of injury to the thigh-upper leg, knee, and lower leg.

The use of heavy boots, jacket, gloves, etc., is effective in preventing or reducing abrasions and lacerations, which are frequent but rarely severe injuries.

Groin injuries were sustained by the motorcyclist in at least 13% of the accidents, and typified by multiple vehicle collision in frontal impact at higher than average speed,

Injury severity increases with speed, alcohol involvement and motorcycle size.

Seventy-three percent of the accident-involved motorcycle riders used no eye protection, and it is likely that the wind on the unprotected eyes contributed an impairment of vision which delayed hazard detection.

Approximately 50% of the motorcycle riders in traffic were using safety helmets but only 40% of the accident-involved motorcycle riders were wearing helmets at the time of the accident.

Voluntary safety helmet use by those accident-involved motorcycle riders was lowest for untrained, uneducated, young motorcycle riders on hot days and short trips.

The most deadly Injuries to the accident victims were injuries to the chest and head.

The use of the safety helmet is the single critical factor in the prevention or reduction of head injury; the safety helmet which complies with FMVSS 218 is a significantly effective injury countermeasure.

Safety helmet use caused no attenuation of critical traffic sounds, no limitation of pre-crash visual field, and no fatigue or loss of attention; no element of accident causation was related to helmet use.

FMVSS 218 provides a high level of protection in traffic accidents, and needs modification only to increase coverage at the back of the head and demonstrate impact protection of the front of full facial coverage helmets, and insure all adult sizes for traffic use are covered by the standard.
Helmeted riders and passengers showed significantly lower head and neck injury for all types of injury, at all levels of injury severity.

The increased coverage of the full facial coverage helmet increases protection, and significantly reduces face injuries.

There is no liability for neck injury by wearing a safety helmet; helmeted riders had fewer neck injuries than unhelmeted riders. Only four minor injuries were attributable to helmet use, and in each case the helmet prevented possible critical or fatal head injury,

Sixty percent of the motorcyclists were not wearing safety helmets at the time of the accident. Of this group, 26% said they did not wear helmets because they were uncomfortable and inconvenient, and 53% simply had no expectation of accident involvement.
Valid motorcycle exposure data can be obtained only from collection at the traffic site, Motor vehicle or driver license data presents information which is completely unrelated to actual use,

Less than 10% of the motorcycle riders involved in these accidents had insurance of any kind to provide medical care or replace property.


Findings of the classic "Hurt Report"... Did you even read it, Chal? READ IT RIGHT frocking NOW. Dont be underrepresented. Care a little more, please, instead of spreading falsehoods " representing the public opinions", when the "public" is right here telling you that you are incorrect.
Last edited by DogDipstick on Jun 05 2021 10:40am, edited 2 times in total.
83.1v of Ironhorse XC.. :) :bolt: by Chevy :bolt: :D Ok So that was what you call a "glitch:" :twisted: (...No Mom. The formula is Kaw > 1(Hr) = Impounded. The math checks out. I'll be fine. ).. :? Broke20Horsies! 17,830w !! :x 1 (pound / second) Horse Power = 338.24 M^2 Kg^2 / Sec^4 ( :twisted: prove me wrong :twisted: ) :| (gottenymoem4115thangs?Yall?) :confused: Fabricator @ BSECo. Inc.

donn   10 kW

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by donn » Jun 05 2021 8:19am

The helmet law has fallen on hard times here, with the advent of dockless bicycle rentals. This is the business, commonly referred to here as "bike share" though there's no sharing involved, where you find and rent a rental bicycle where the last rider tossed it aside. May have been kind of a fad, partly replaced by electric foot scooters, but it was very popular with the bicycle crusaders for a while, and of course it's very rare to see anyone on these rental bicycles who had the forethought to carry a helmet along for the occasion.

Still, it's a convenient way for the police to hassle homeless people and other undesirables, and since it does seem to be the case that a large part of the rampant bicycle theft comes from the homeless crowd, perhaps it's just. There isn't much chance they're going to go and get your bicycle back for you, but they might well have written the thief a ticket once or twice.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by Ianhill » Jun 05 2021 9:53am

Nice to see we got the points across in a adult fashion and can all understand each and get along 😀

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by Chalo » Jun 05 2021 10:37am

DogDipstick wrote:
Jun 05 2021 8:03am
ALL COMMERCIAL CONSTRUCTION REQUIRES HATS.
A hard hat isn't a crash helmet, and it doesn't do the same job. A crash helmet is for your head smacking into a surface, but a hard hat is for an object falling on your head. The energy absorption is orders of magnitude different. If you fall off a ladder, a construction hat won't help you at all, and probably will come off before your head has a chance to hit anything.

A bicycle isn't a motorcycle, and motorcycle helmets aren't what I'm talking about. Those are also orders of magnitude apart in terms of kinetic energy.

Hard hats for job sites and motorcycle helmets for riding motorcycles are demonstrated to have a populationwide net benefit. Bicycle helmets aren't.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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DogDipstick   10 kW

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by DogDipstick » Jun 05 2021 10:54am

Ianhill wrote:
Jun 05 2021 9:53am
Nice to see we got the points across in a adult fashion and can all understand each and get along 😀
I said please.

Honestly I dont know anyone who died in Vietnam.

I dont know anybody that died of Covid recently.

I do know, I have lost 4 best friends and have countless others in my heart that have died ( were killed) on bicycles and motorcycles. ON that black stripe of a memorial. Plus a plethora of friends who are hurt for life. A helmet has absolutely 100% saved my life. More than once. I should show you my Shoeis. I am sorry if I am coming off as a dork, yall know I am a dork. Still... If I was a lawmaker I would certainly insist upon helmet laws. Modern tech alone shows that we now know things we did not 20 years ago... and Man has known about the efficacy of helmets since.... Forever. ... been worn by the Akkadians/Sumerians in the 23rd century BC.. Sure.... Going way back now.. Lol...

Like skiing or snowboarding. Remember years ago noone was on the slopes and wore a helmet? Nowadays you see many, many more smart people wearing helmets on the icy slopes... just like the (real) mountain climbers have done... Forever. Cause they dont want a bruised noggin. I cannot fathom how ANY ONE PERSON can advocate not wearing a helmet in a high speed sport.

Thousands of years years by now. Counting. Our Army, Navy, AirForce, Marines all have a plethora of hats available..(The prison wardens to the construction workers to the police... Everybody....) ( Football players, to theand the early motorcyclist at the Isle of Mann Everybody ) but you see what they wear in dangerous situations. Lol at the stats. It is typical reckneck send-it filthily swine selfishness to not wear one, if, there is someone in the world, that loves you.

Like I do.


Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmet
83.1v of Ironhorse XC.. :) :bolt: by Chevy :bolt: :D Ok So that was what you call a "glitch:" :twisted: (...No Mom. The formula is Kaw > 1(Hr) = Impounded. The math checks out. I'll be fine. ).. :? Broke20Horsies! 17,830w !! :x 1 (pound / second) Horse Power = 338.24 M^2 Kg^2 / Sec^4 ( :twisted: prove me wrong :twisted: ) :| (gottenymoem4115thangs?Yall?) :confused: Fabricator @ BSECo. Inc.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by Ianhill » Jun 05 2021 11:38am

Dogdipstick did you just declare you love for me, im very flattered thank you i have love for you to so hear me out mens infertility drops on bike saddles with pressure points over time so be nice to both your heads stand up and peddle get some blood to the only hewd that matters if you ask the other half she say cabbage me but dont ruin that.

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by dogman dan » Jun 06 2021 5:40am

Whether a bike hat works depends a lot on what you hit your head on. The time I split one in half, at a mere 15 mph, I went over the bars and hit my head on the corner of the curb. Head was pretty comfortable on that one, Broke both collarbones though. :lol: I never even scuffed a bike helmet crashing on a single track trail. You'd mostly be glad you had gloves on.

FWIW, all that construction I did without a hard had was residential. But the commercial jobs, boots, hard hat, harnesses, etc. I just did 90% housing construction. Osha left us alone. Today you see a lot of safety gear, but not back then in the stone age.

Best way not to have shit dropped on you was to be on top of the ladder. Rock climbing past made me quite able to step off of anything, up to 16 feet up. Easy, no boulders on the landing Never ever fell off a ladder, but bosses did hate the way I turned around and faced out to walk down one. Stepped off ladders that were collapsing a few times. Always, always, landed on my feet, even if it took a flip to do it.

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