Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
rocky22   1 µW

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Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by rocky22 » Jun 04 2021 12:45am

So I started riding my electric bike again in my neighbourhood and on desert paths recently. I used to ride with only a conventional bike helmet on my head, but in the last month and a half, I've switched to a full-face helmet with long sleeves and pants.

If I hadn't been wearing a full-face helmet throughout yesterday's bike, I would have ended up with a shattered jaw and missing teeth.

What happened was that as I was about to drive onto the road where my house was located, I signalled with my arm that there were automobiles behind me, which was a minor inconvenience.However, because the road leading to the turnoff is curved and I only had one hand on the handlebars, I panicked and grabbed the front brakes, losing control.

I'm alright except for a smidgeon of road rash on my hand, a broken plastic clip that connects the speedometer to the handlebars, and scratches on the face of my helmet where my chin would be.

A gentle reminder to wear a full face helmet at all times while riding. If you're not careful, a minor blunder like mine might ruin the next few months of your life with rehab and other nonsense.
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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by Chalo » Jun 04 2021 1:23am

Some of us have made it much longer with no helmet at all, by employing the more reliable protection of not riding foolishly.
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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by Ianhill » Jun 04 2021 2:03am

Holland is a good example of this.

They drive with caution and the area is well designed to separate car from pedestrian and pushbike as a result the helmet is seen as a racing item for drop handle riders etc more than a necessary for your 5 year old to peddle at 4mph top speed.

The issue is the car always has been i tell a true tale now of a silly billy country names not need be mentioned.

Asphalt roads were before the car they serviced bicycles and pedestrains research it but car manufacturers lobbied in goverment and got the right to make the road safety act that went from been pedestrain safe oriented to car is king of the road all must bow down to it.
They spun the fraise jay walker at the time jay was a term used for an idiot so only an idiot crosses the road but just years before this pedestrian have the right and the roads changed for the worse cars and pedestrians got closers together and that bag of mush we call a body is next to a metal object at speed the results never favour the human.

Same with push bikes rather than spend trillions fixing all the problems of the road networks just put a plaster on the dead cyclists by blaming them and you wear a helmet it will save your life when its been far from the truth you ride in the road no helmet can save you when a car minces you into another car etc and the roads and cycle paths should never have been combined or the car take priority in the road over human life.

Millions dead and now we put our faith in comouters to not kill the kids rsther than just change the god damn infrastructure use tax dollars for well thought out projects and thats were we stall and do a face palm moment goverment corruption was the problem all along, head of gm went into the military and pushed the freeways act money money money pollution death poor transport links within the citys they connect.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by TDB » Jun 04 2021 2:44am

Car culture... This youtube channel highlights some of the problems.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0intL ... G-xAvUEO-A

It should not be viewed as America bashing.

Similar problems exist in Australia, but drivers are usually better disciplined.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by DogDipstick » Jun 04 2021 2:58am

I love my gear. Man... I mean, I never go without it. No-ho, Noway, NoSir.

Not the Dainese and Shoei, Alpine stars stuff in my garage locker...

But I wont go without a hat. Nooooway.

First thing they ask you in the ER.. Every time...

(pretty nurse:) " DIJA havA HeLmIETSZ on?"

Bicycles track horribly with their same size front /rear wheel dimensions and short wheelbase. Dont let go of the bars when you need be steering.. you can pretty much ride around town on a Rocketbike like a Gxxr or a ZedEx, without touching the ground or the bars ( leaning to steer, hands off... ).. but you cannot do tha on a off road bicycle designed front end, rifing on the road.

The bar will flop.

If you think you dont need a helmet, you have not enough miles under you. Silly, and stupid, and possibly soon to be drooling on the bib the nurse gave you for the day.
Chalo wrote:
Jun 04 2021 1:23am
Some of us have made it much longer with no helmet at all, by employing the more reliable protection of not riding foolishly.
Lol..... great logic there. Gary Busey agrees with you 100%.
One love Chalo, Pls wear a hat. For those that love you, if not for me. Not all those that " ride foolishly" crash.. : And some of those that "ride responsibly" still do crash. There are well known published stats you should follow, not "the level of foolishness"... You can not control the other fools (on the road:) you know.. They will be there no matter what.

I got a (best) friend who thinks the same as you: He just got a Gixxer1K. I am going to force him to get a good hat and wear it. Even if I have to go to the wife. 100%. I have another friend whom was run over by a firetruck one night on a Harley. Just pulling away from a stop sign. A F-R-O-C-K-ing full size double axle fire truck. No helmet, nowadays he tries to play it off.. but I can still see what it did to his head. Jared, he aint the same anymore.. Still dumb... but even dumber now... sorta.. (If "dumb" is a thing... IDk.. Who even said I am smart.. But I know my friend is challenged for the rest of his life doing simple things... )

( Published stats such as the "Hurt Report":)

I would rather have a broken body and a straight head, than visa versa. That is my assertion that I came to when I figured teh possibilities ( of riding on the road). I have crashed at 55mph and it cost 40,000$. Plus the bike. Half a second, and half your arm is gone. Looking at that bone. Mmmmm. Ground down bone. That fast. That slow. Falling from. That fast. Done. Dont blink, you will miss it. Just riding along one min.. the next thing you know you are getting up and pieces of bike everywhere... Blink.

I have easily over 100,000 miles on two wheels on the road. Have sat at 199mph on the dash for eons on a ZX10R. It is quite quiet up there. Blasted by hundreds ( thousands? Tens of thousands.. ?) of commuters unsuspecting as they sit in their cars t 65mph sipping coffee... 6:20 in the morning on the six lanes of the Schuylkill Expressway... ( the "Sure-Kill" expressway? Lol... Philly) Like they were sitting still stopped in traffic.. I feel bad for the eardrums, for I usually ride with earplugs in... Lol. I know they still be ringing... if not... Durrrr

A football field every second and a half... speed...

When you start riding your ebike like a CBR... Pls... remember what happened to the CBR... Lol.

I never go without gloves, sleeves, and boots when I go over 20mph. It has saved me a headache or two for sure, even minor ones.

I have already sat in that room too long. Second day, you itched to get out. But you still hooked up to those machines.. vacuums still in your arm.... stents still pumping.. You can feel the staples... the morphine does not always work. Breathing through that clot tube every half an hour.

I crashed my bike really hard about a few months ago. Tore the vest, ripped my gloves, couldnt breath for a few min, (took about two months breath normally... ).. People stopped with their phones out.. Asking questions." You Ok?" " YOu need a ambulance"?

Head was fine. Head was together. I knew what to do. I knew I had to pick the bike up. I knew.. cause I had my head. Right there I thanked my helmet for being there, even though I did not scrape it upp.. my chest took the hit. Checked my bike, checked my bones, off I went. Home.

I never stopped so fast from 35mph to 0.. in five feet.. Felt that whump for a good long while.. ( still do)

Wanna learn more? Push the button to begin.

John Hinds, MCIU medical team, - " A highside is a fall from height, either feet or head, first one of the most dangerous kind of injury. "

(Watch, but, friend, only if you have the stomach for it.. There is a great section on helmets about 20:00 min in. )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsZBXlTHPCg
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83.1v of Ironhorse XC.. :) :bolt: by Chevy :bolt: :D Ok So that was what you call a "glitch:" :twisted: (...No Mom. The formula is Kaw > 1(Hr) = Impounded. The math checks out. I'll be fine. ).. :? Broke20Horsies! 17,830w !! :x 1 (pound / second) Horse Power = 338.24 M^2 Kg^2 / Sec^4 ( :twisted: prove me wrong :twisted: ) :| (gottenymoem4115thangs?Yall?) :confused: Fabricator @ BSECo. Inc.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by Chalo » Jun 04 2021 3:42am

If you wear a helmet to ride a bicycle, but not to climb ladders or stairs, drive a car, or take a shower, you have a faulty understanding of the relative risks involved.

Cyclist mortality rates have remained the same as helmet use rose from 0% to approximately 50%. I think that accurately reflects the real world efficacy of bicycle helmets. They offer not very much protection, and they encourage wearers to adopt a little bit riskier behavior than they might otherwise.

Bicycling is simply not that dangerous a thing to do. When you wear a helmet, you are supporting a pro-car, anti-cycling propaganda campaign that's older than any of us. I won't tell you what to do, but I won't defy my own interests that way.
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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by DogDipstick » Jun 04 2021 3:48am

Chalo wrote:
Jun 04 2021 3:42am
If you wear a helmet to ride a bicycle, but not to climb ladders or stairs, drive a car, or take a shower, you have a faulty understanding of the relative risks involved.

Cyclist mortality rates have remained the same as helmet use rose from 0% to approximately 50%. I think that accurately reflects the real world efficacy of bicycle helmets. They offer not very much protection, and they encourage wearers to adopt a little bit riskier behavior than they might otherwise.

Bicycling is simply not that dangerous a thing to do. When you wear a helmet, you are supporting a pro-car, anti-cycling propaganda campaign that's older than any of us. I won't tell you what to do, but I won't defy my own interests that way.

The ladder thing.. About that ladder thing...

You know falls from height are the most dangerous stat in the construction world?

I know that, for I work ( sub) for Centimark Roofing, and we have to meet OSHA.. So YES, we do wear our (hardhat) helmets to work ( on the ladders) every day, or else outr company ( Advanced Cleaning Solutions) gets fines. That is prudent and cost effective method of employee protection. Cause we do it every day. With crews of temps that i must equip with bright vests, glasses, ahrdhats, and gloves or they get kicked off site.. No hook blades either. Lol. Our insurance is kinda specific to the commercial roofing demo we do. VEry specific surrounding height. 6 feet or greater head height, you have to have a harness. Flag boxxes at the top. Set up the barriers and anchors for the retracts. If an Osha guy see ONE laborer outside the box.. without a zipline, FINE! FINE FIne FIne. We ( I do) lock the ladders up every morning, or night, at the end of the shift, and wrap a cable round a plank so people cannot climb or rigging on the weekend or whatnot. We leave the 40,000 lb. telehandlers sitting there, fueled up, with the keys in them.. but.. we make sure noone can climb our 30-60ft. ladders. Fence that dangerous stuff off. Lol.

I have an Irish brother in law who took a mountain bike down a ski slope, once, and left in a helicopter. Lost his spleen, too. Lol. No helmet there and I would not have a brother in law. 100% bicycle. 100% bicycle downhill slope. 100% deadly, for sure.

You cannot compare "showering" to " riding a powered bike at 35mph".... One requires a hat, one is optional, in my opinion. I have never fallen requiring a hospital in the shower. It is a fine line we push comparing "ebikes " to such things as "Motorcycles" or "Bicycle"..in comparison... Some things do not equate. Such as the speed analogies ( achieved), and the riding environments (frequented).

Some things do not equate.
83.1v of Ironhorse XC.. :) :bolt: by Chevy :bolt: :D Ok So that was what you call a "glitch:" :twisted: (...No Mom. The formula is Kaw > 1(Hr) = Impounded. The math checks out. I'll be fine. ).. :? Broke20Horsies! 17,830w !! :x 1 (pound / second) Horse Power = 338.24 M^2 Kg^2 / Sec^4 ( :twisted: prove me wrong :twisted: ) :| (gottenymoem4115thangs?Yall?) :confused: Fabricator @ BSECo. Inc.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by MadRhino » Jun 04 2021 5:11am

Protection gear can’t save a distracted rider. The first rule of riding safety is consciousness. The second is riding skills training. Then only, comes the basic protections: Riding gloves, glasses, boots and helmet.

After horses and bulls, motorcycles of all kind, I find ebikes pretty safe even when they are fast and powerful. That is because they are light and maneuverable. Riding is dangerous fundamentally, because the choices of the rider have much higher risk. One can be pretty safe driving a car stupidly, for most of the time the risk is to others. A rider is risking his own life, thus he can’t afford to let himself be distracted, and lacking the fundamental skills to deal with every situation.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by dogman dan » Jun 04 2021 5:19am

Well, I made it through a lifetime in construction, seldom wore a hard hat. Never ever fell off a ladder or scaffold. Nor did I work under people. This was all mostly residential stuff, no tall buildings. Went to hospital one time, for stepping on a nail, to get the T shot. Saw plenty less careful people get head injuries, saw injuries, nail gun injuries.

Wore out a few motorcycle and bicycle helmets though. I suppose that says something about my mind set while working, vs while hooning around on motorcycles and bikes.

I'm not quite sure what Rocky22 was signaling the cars for. But he just learned the limitations of front brakes on dirt. I just ride such that no car has much chance of hitting me, or needing to see my signal to not hit me.

Now I'm riding motorcycles again, and the dirt bike gets crashed from time to time. For sure, its good that I'm wearing helmets, gloves, boots, armored jacket, and at least armored knees. I rarely crash at more than 15 mph, usually in deep sand when the front wheel gets buried too deep and I go over the top. Very nice to be fully armored then, not that my head is in a lot of danger, but not getting gravel in the palms and knees is nice.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by neptronix » Jun 04 2021 8:22am

Chalo wrote:
Jun 04 2021 3:42am
Bicycling is simply not that dangerous a thing to do. When you wear a helmet, you are supporting a pro-car, anti-cycling propaganda campaign that's older than any of us. I won't tell you what to do, but I won't defy my own interests that way.
I wonder if you intentionally take these angles on posts to agitate people, Chalo..

Bike injuries on a per mile basis vs cars are something like >10x higher. Safety is important even for a skilled rider.
I've put probably 30,000 bike miles in and what finally got me was a railroad track angled at 3 degrees parallel with the road, which revealed itself to me quickly after a hill. Despite trying to counter-angle for it, my 2.5" wide tires got stuck in the ditch, and sent me flying.

I still have all my teeth and a functioning neck ONLY because i was wearing a helmet.
What i don't have is the same amount of cartilage in my left hip, outer meniscus, and left shoulder. And still have pain in all those areas 10 years later. We could have added a brain injury to that list without a helmet which could have completely destroyed my career. Instead, i had a mild concussion.

And that was from a crash where i was sent flying at 20mph.

Not only could bicycle design be more safe, but at higher speeds than what i crashed at, one gets to learn why helmets are important the hard way if you are not a believer.
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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by Ianhill » Jun 04 2021 8:42am

No doubt ppe got its place as someone that carrys out risk assessments occasiinally the way i was touggt to see risk is allways key can you eliminate the danger completly if not can you remove the human if not then safety precautions must be in place.

For bicycle lanes i feel the reserve of this happened all then years ago and we still pay the price but if im blasting down a track not only do i wear a helmet ill have gloves and a chest protector too, ive already broke my legs to bits on a bike 9 months in plaster to go and break the thing again in 2 days felt sick as a pig then it made me sleep for 3 hours but yeah the post didnt move out my way when my chain come off pedaling fullspeed down hill.

But all these things you wont see riders in amsterdam doing so they just plod about and for that speed ill let them use thier descretion freek accident could kill someone at 2-3mph but the odds of that are so minor its like going to bed with gloves on incase you poke your eye out while you sleep.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by gobi » Jun 04 2021 9:45am

Good thread,
I plan on getting full face helmets for my girls, not sure about clothing though,
I need some help on vented moto jackets pls. any suggestions?



FYI:
I live in a little town of docs/attorney who bike around in their tightys all day.

A lot of my neighbors have spend a bunch of time in rehab after UNMINDFUL neighbor whacked them on their bikes.

My one neighbor hit my truck twice in a year and she proceeded to blame my chevy diesel being too fing big.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by TNC » Jun 04 2021 10:53am

Been a street and dirt motorcycle rider all my life. On a bicycle, only as young kid did I not wear a helmet. I'm nearly 70 now and still ride dirt motos, pavement bikes, and bicycles...having only recently gotten into ebikes for mountain bikes. I'm a pretty good rider in all three categories, but I've still managed to destroy at least 5 helmets in those venues...some my own action, a couple by the action of others.

I fully support the right of all kinds of riders to not wear helmets. In fact I even like it. There are too many people in this world, and sometimes the lack of a helmet can aid in this problem. My only complaint is when it doesn't work to full effect and our medical bills, insurance premiums, and taxes go up to spoon feed the drooling idiots left behind. :lol:

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by Chalo » Jun 04 2021 11:34am

neptronix wrote:
Jun 04 2021 8:22am
Chalo wrote:
Jun 04 2021 3:42am
Bicycling is simply not that dangerous a thing to do. When you wear a helmet, you are supporting a pro-car, anti-cycling propaganda campaign that's older than any of us. I won't tell you what to do, but I won't defy my own interests that way.
I wonder if you intentionally take these angles on posts to agitate people, Chalo..

Bike injuries on a per mile basis vs cars are something like >10x higher. Safety is important even for a skilled rider.
Sorry you got agitated.

There's no net added safety from wearing a helmet, and whole population studies bear that out whenever they occur. For whatever reason, helmets show measurable protection in the lab, their proponents all claim some personal anecdote when it "saved my life!"-- but when governments force every cyclist to wear one, things don't improve. Usually the result is fewer riders but slightly more injuries/mortality per capita among riders. When cyclists adopt them voluntarily in large numbers, same thing. In the big picture, bicycle helmets negate whatever physical protection they offer with the effects of other factors.

How many miles does the average bicycle rider put on a bike versus a car? In any given year, car driver helmets would save many more lives than the total number of people who die in bicycle accidents (not just those who could have benefitted from a helmet). Thirty to fifty times as many people die in cars, after all. Yet there's no popular push for auto helmets.

In countries that get around on bikes, where cycling is a major part of the transportation mix, cyclists don't wear helmets. And they're much safer overall. In countries where cars dominate the road and the traffic laws, cycle helmet use is much more common, but so are cycling injuries and deaths.

It's not what you're wearing on your head that makes the difference, really-- it's what your neighbors are using to indulge their laziness, fecklessness, wastefulness, and inconsideration.
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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by TDB » Jun 04 2021 11:51am

Sources?

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by Chalo » Jun 04 2021 11:58am

TDB wrote:
Jun 04 2021 11:51am
Sources?
Here's a good digest, with lots of references:
https://www.cyclehelmets.org/

Whole population data is often just there for the googling. E.g., "cycling deaths usa 2019"

https://colvilleandersen.medium.com/the ... d6c4ae3ed2
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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by Eastwood » Jun 04 2021 12:05pm

dogman dan wrote:
Jun 04 2021 5:19am
. I just ride such that no car has much chance of hitting me, or needing to see my signal to not hit me.
Yes exactly! Don’t give the cars an option to hit you.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by Eastwood » Jun 04 2021 12:27pm

rocky22 wrote:
Jun 04 2021 12:45am
A gentle reminder to wear a full face helmet at all times while riding.
Yep I just got a full face helmet for my Ebike. I think for some people they can get away with not wearing a helmet especially if they only have 500w or something and they’re “only going slow”. If one plans on going over 20mph for extended periods it’s foolish to not wear at least a half helmet, I would say full face. I always take my full face with me and when I’m riding slower like greenways or something I’ll take it off and hook it on my handlebars.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by JackFlorey » Jun 04 2021 12:44pm

Chalo wrote:
Jun 04 2021 3:42am
If you wear a helmet to ride a bicycle, but not to climb ladders or stairs, drive a car, or take a shower, you have a faulty understanding of the relative risks involved.
If you wear a helmet to bicycle, but don't skydive because you think it's dangerous/scary, you have a faulty understanding of the relative risks involved as well! (just as silly)

No one has to bike or skydive, and indeed very, very few high risk people (say, osteoporotic 90 year old women) ride bikes or skydive. At-risk people generally remove themselves from those risky activities. Pretty much everyone has to bathe and go up stairs. Which means that comparing all people hitting their heads while falling down the stairs (including those 90 year old osteoporotic women) to 20-60 year old bicyclists hitting their heads while biking is meaningless.

Now, if you want to compare serious head injury in BIKERS while biking vs BIKERS walking up and down the stairs, that would be a valid comparison. Do you have that info?

At the end of the day, if you have voluntarily put yourself in that risk group (biking) then wearing a helmet reduces your risk of death or serious injury by a factor of 13. Wear one or not; it's up to you. Or if you don't want to risk it at all, don't bike. But facile justifications to prove to yourself that you are smart for not wearing a helmet are just that, and are nothing more than mental masturbation.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by RunForTheHills » Jun 04 2021 12:55pm

I wear a helmet, but I have to agree with Chalo on this one. If you are riding at normal bicycle speeds <20mph falling off the bike will not usually result in serious head injuries unless you hit a sharp object with your head. However, this is the same risk as falling while running or walking. If you hit a sharp object with your head it will give you a head injury. Most people don't wear helmets while walking or running. In a collision with a car, the bicyclist is going to lose whether or not they are wearing a helmet. One study showed that car drivers actually keep more distance from cyclists without a helmet than those with a helmet. Studies also show that countries like the Netherlands with many more cyclists have a much lower fatality rate for cyclists than countries like the US, despite almost no one wearing helmets in the Netherlands. They have better cycling infrastructure and most drivers are more aware of cyclists because there are more cyclists there. There is an argument, that I agree with, that requiring helmets reduces the number of people willing to use a bicycle for transportation and reducing the number of cyclists on the road makes cycling more dangerous because drivers will be less aware of cyclists. People will just get in their car and drive to the restaurant two miles away rather than put a helmet on and mess their hair up.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by Eastwood » Jun 04 2021 1:03pm

Chalo wrote:
Jun 04 2021 1:23am
Some of us have made it much longer with no helmet at all, by employing the more reliable protection of not riding foolishly.
Depending on where you live my friend. If you live in Holland and its designed for that then you don’t need a helmet. Also places like that everyone’s a cyclist so they know how to look out for cyclist. In the states the vast majority of people are not cyclist and they don’t know how to look out for bikes

Some of the cities in the states the roadways and sidewalks are hectic and the chances of crashing is a lot higher compared to other more relaxed laid-back towns. So I think people should wear helmets depending on where they live and what type of riding they’re doing. But to say people shouldn’t wear helmets is not wise words. If in doubt always wear a helmet.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by TNC » Jun 04 2021 1:19pm

RunForTheHills wrote:
Jun 04 2021 12:55pm
I wear a helmet, but I have to agree with Chalo on this one. If you are riding at normal bicycle speeds <20mph falling off the bike will not usually result in serious head injuries unless you hit a sharp object with your head. However, this is the same risk as falling while running or walking. If you hit a sharp object with your head it will give you a head injury. Most people don't wear helmets while walking or running. In a collision with a car, the bicyclist is going to lose whether or not they are wearing a helmet. One study showed that car drivers actually keep more distance from cyclists without a helmet than those with a helmet. Studies also show that countries like the Netherlands with many more cyclists have a much lower fatality rate for cyclists than countries like the US, despite almost no one wearing helmets in the Netherlands. They have better cycling infrastructure and most drivers are more aware of cyclists because there are more cyclists there. There is an argument, that I agree with, that requiring helmets reduces the number of people willing to use a bicycle for transportation and reducing the number of cyclists on the road makes cycling more dangerous because drivers will be less aware of cyclists. People will just get in their car and drive to the restaurant two miles away rather than put a helmet on and mess their hair up.
Your argument is like claiming the lack of effectiveness of a handgun for either personal defense or police work when stats might make it look like there's very little numerical support for such. It's that "one time" when it's the only thing that works to save yourself or someone else that changes the whole perspective. Like I said above, I'm fine with people not wearing helmets as a personal choice for the reasons I inidicated.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by RunForTheHills » Jun 04 2021 1:30pm

TNC wrote:
Jun 04 2021 1:19pm

Your argument is like claiming the lack of effectiveness of a handgun for either personal defense or police work when stats might make it look like there's very little numerical support for such. It's that "one time" when it's the only thing that works to save yourself or someone else that changes the whole perspective. Like I said above, I'm fine with people not wearing helmets as a personal choice for the reasons I inidicated.
Then you missed the point of my argument. If there were a lot more cyclists in the US, cycling would be safer. Requiring helmets makes cycling less safer because it discourages many people from using a bicycle for everyday transportation. Guns are a bit of a political hot potato, but I also believe that if everyone carried a handgun, were trained in gun safety, and also practiced using it, there would be less crime. That said, I don't carry a weapon. That is a personal choice, like wearing a helmet.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by Chalo » Jun 04 2021 1:34pm

JackFlorey wrote:
Jun 04 2021 12:44pm
At the end of the day, if you have voluntarily put yourself in that risk group (biking) then wearing a helmet reduces your risk of death or serious injury by a factor of 13.
Now, that number is horse puckey. But let's assume it's true. The fact that fatality rates for cyclists don't change in response to the broad adoption of helmets would then imply that wearing one makes you 13 times more likely to be in an accident. Which you're in turn 13 times more likely to survive.

That's not how it works, because helmets aren't that effective and don't multiply your risk that much. But the data are in for entire populations, and we know they don't reduce fatalities overall.

Here's a brief analysis for the time period during which bicycle helmet use in the USA went from rare to common:
https://bicycleuniverse.com/bicycle-saf ... c/#Helmets

If they worked like proponents claim, the data would reflect that.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Why do I now ride my ebike with light motorcycle gear?

Post by JackFlorey » Jun 04 2021 2:00pm

Chalo wrote:
Jun 04 2021 1:34pm
Now, that number is horse puckey. But let's assume it's true. The fact that fatality rates for cyclists don't change with the broad adoption of helmets would then imply that wearing one makes you 13 times more likely to be in an accident.
Nope. There's no data that supports that.

In NYC, 97% of bike fatalities (2002-2018) involved someone who was not wearing a helmet. Countrywide 2010-2017, 79% of biking fatalities involved someone not using a helmet (source - NHTSA.) And this is not because no one wears a helmet; countrywide about 40% of people do. If you do end up with a head injury from biking, you are three times more likely to survive them if you are wearing a helmet. (NHTSA again.)

From a medical perspective, the International Journal of Epidemiology did a study of injuries to bicyclists, and concluded that "Bicycle helmet use was associated with reduced odds of head injury, serious head injury, facial injury and fatal head injury. The reduction was greater for serious or fatal head injury." Which supports the above statements as well.

https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/46/1/278/2617198

Again, wear a helmet or not. Your choice. But if you are telling yourself that you are smart for not wearing one because they don't help, you're deluding yourself.

This sort of self-delusion is nothing new; heavy smokers often tell themselves stories about how smoking reduces stress, or they know some guy who lived to 100 and smoked two packs a day, so smoking is safe. People often want to be the hero in their own story. Which works - until the lung cancer diagnosis.

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