Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

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xylene23nyc   10 mW

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Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

Post by xylene23nyc » Jan 25 2022 8:22pm

Was wondering if anyone can chime in on their experience in NYC (within the 5 Boroughs) riding/owning an Enduro/EEB or stealth bomber type frame ebike with pedals.

Have you had any issues from PD or Karens while riding responsibly on bike lanes/over bridges/roads within the legal 25mph speed limit?

What has you experience been moving the bike around and or locking it up outside?

What wheel size and or tire type has suited you well for our pothole ridden streets?

Other Pros or cons?

My only ebike experience has been riding/building a Bafang BBSHD Midrive on a Mtn bike. So far its been great but thanks to this forum I'm now considering a future Enduro frame/QS 205 V3/Sabvoton 72 150 controler build. Possibly 19" Moto wheels. I know they are heavy frames but I'm very much a fan of the look.

Thanks in advanvce!

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Re: Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

Post by calab » Jan 30 2022 9:49pm

I have never been to ny or the c but riding around with an ebike that looks like a motorcycle is not a wise move, its even more of not a wise move when your going really fast. If the fuzz have had a bad day, you are now their target.

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Re: Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

Post by ebike4healthandfitness » Jan 30 2022 10:27pm

Stealth was wise to make street legal moped versions of the B52 and F37 for Europe while still keeping the 2500 watt/6200 watt power rating.

Now bring 2500/6200 watt (and beyond) to the US street legal as well.

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Re: Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

Post by calab » Jan 30 2022 10:55pm

It really has no bearing if you have a 200w kids toy motor and doing wheelies on your kona mtb pissing people off or you have a motorcycle looking bicycle electrified. If its high power you have zero self restraint because you did not spend all that money to restrain yourself you will want that adrenaline rush more then once every couple days.

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Re: Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

Post by xylene23nyc » Jan 30 2022 11:13pm

Thanks for the responses. Throttle Ebikes with pedals are legal in NYC up to 25 mph in bike lanes and may share all roads with cars. Manhattan has had an explosion of ebikes (and lots of added bike lanes) within the last few years due to all the delivery services that are now a normal part of life here.

Yesterday for the first time I saw what looked like a Enduro/Stealth bomber Ebike with pedals and Moto wheels being used for food delivery in Manhattan. It's only amatter of time until they (or something similar in power/range) replaces the standard food delivery Arrow ebike. As with my mid drive I don't plan to go over 25mph in bike lanes even though I can. For my own safety I do want to occasionally ride on local roads at around 35 mph. The speed limit for cars is 25 but everyone hits 35 and drivers are very aggressive here. For now my ideal Ebike would be an Enduro/stealth type that can hit 25-35 MPH all day (never going anywhere near its peak) with a huge 72V 40Ah battery for lots of range. I don't really care about racing or hitting higher speeds.

For anyone else wondering, I've been recently told by owners in NYC ebike groups that Onyx/Surron/Stealths with pedals are fine if not speeding or being stupid.

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SafeDiscDancing   10 kW

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Re: Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

Post by SafeDiscDancing » Jan 30 2022 11:23pm

xylene23nyc wrote:
Jan 25 2022 8:22pm
What has you experience been moving the bike around and or locking it up outside?
You don't leave valuable things out in public in big cities.

Forget the idea you can lock it up and walk away from it.

The better idea is to bring the ebike indoors where you go.

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Re: Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

Post by calab » Jan 31 2022 12:28am

Which was my point I should adopt that wording for now on. Honestly how much self restraint will you have because you sure are not going to limit it to 25mph :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: so why tease your brain :lol: like being on a diet and having junk food on the counter teasting you
Onyx/Surron/Stealths with pedals are fine if not speeding or being stupid.

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Re: Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

Post by ebike4healthandfitness » Jan 31 2022 1:02am

xylene23nyc wrote:
Jan 30 2022 11:13pm

Yesterday for the first time I saw what looked like a Enduro/Stealth bomber Ebike with pedals and Moto wheels being used for food delivery in Manhattan. It's only amatter of time until they (or something similar in power/range) replaces the standard food delivery Arrow ebike.
E-bikes and E-mopeds will get more powerful over time and eventually I think we will see the laws bend and get reshaped towards this.
Last edited by ebike4healthandfitness on Jan 31 2022 1:10am, edited 1 time in total.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

Post by Chalo » Jan 31 2022 1:08am

If it looks like a motorcycle, and it goes like a motorcycle, it's a motorcycle. Register and insure it as such. And stay out of the bike lanes, for cripes' sake.

I honestly don't understand the fixation with putting pedals on a motorcycle and then acting like it's a bicycle. Nobody is fooled, and it's a dick move.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

Post by ebike4healthandfitness » Jan 31 2022 1:23am

Chalo wrote:
Jan 31 2022 1:08am
If it looks like a motorcycle, and it goes like a motorcycle, it's a motorcycle. Register and insure it as such. And stay out of the bike lanes, for cripes' sake.

I honestly don't understand the fixation with putting pedals on a motorcycle and then acting like it's a bicycle. Nobody is fooled, and it's a dick move.
One reason people like to build BSMs is to use bike lanes (particularly bike paths). As volumetric density of batteries improve (particularly through solid state) the BSM will be harder and harder to detect. So what are you gonna do when happens? You won’t be able to prevent them from entering bike lanes so the laws will likely focus on what is enforceable.
Last edited by ebike4healthandfitness on Jan 31 2022 8:44am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

Post by Chalo » Jan 31 2022 1:39am

If it looks like a bicycle and goes like a bicycle, I have no problem with that.

If it looks and goes like a dirt bike, plate it or get it off the street. And keep off bicycle ROW.

If it looks like a Rokon and a Tote Gote had a butt baby, it needs a license plate (and to get run over by a garbage truck).
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

Post by ebike4healthandfitness » Jan 31 2022 1:57am

Chalo wrote:
Jan 31 2022 1:39am


If it looks like a Rokon and a Tote Gote had a butt baby, it needs a license plate (and to get run over by a garbage truck).
That danger of being run over by a garbage truck is a point the oems will use to get that included for bike lanes.

Is there any reason lightweight two wheel vehicles should be excluded from bike lanes (even bike paths) provided they obey the speed limit for that bike lane or bike path? Even if they are BSMs?

A two wheel vehicle at X weight limit going 15 mph on a bike path shouldn’t be any more dangerous than any other two wheel vehicle at the same weight limit also going 15 mph.

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Re: Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

Post by xylene23nyc » Jan 31 2022 9:22am

Cars are by leaps and bounds much more dangerous to pedestrians or other cars/cyclists than any moped or high powered ebike will ever be.

People don't even flinch but celebrate cars going way over highway speed limits but apparently some get butt hurt at the thought of an ebike looking like a motorcycle.

I already own an ebike that can hit 35-40 mph when pushing it but I never do that in bike lanes. Speed limits are guidelines (in practice) and cops in NYC don't really ticket cars for illegally but safely going 35 in 25mph zones and they don't with ebikes if you are just sharing the road with cars and not being an idiot.

As someone who has worked in several emergency rooms in NYC I would never joke about other Ebikers deserving to be hit by garbage trucks and am shocked to read this on an ebike forum. Enough non powered cyclists (and pedestrians) are mowed down here by cars almost on a daily basis.

I already got answers to my questions from experienced owners in NYC on another forum.

Thanks.

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Re: Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

Post by SafeDiscDancing » Jan 31 2022 2:17pm

xylene23nyc wrote:
Jan 31 2022 9:22am
Cars are by leaps and bounds much more dangerous to pedestrians or other cars/cyclists than any moped or high powered ebike will ever be.
Yes. We looked into the hard data elsewhere and it showed motorcycles as causing only something like 3% of injuries to pedestrians.

Mopeds and ebikes are going to score lower than that 3% likely into the 1% range.

It's the cars, trucks, SUVs and buses that do all the harm.

Chalo is into tyranny on pretty much every dimension and rejects Natural Law based freedom as "crazy talk" despite it being the foundation of civiization.

So he will always choose the worst idea over and over just because that's his proven track record.

----------------------

I had a bike stolen off a bike rack on my car once and I was only away from the car less than five minutes.

So your ebike might get stolen that quickly.

I'd say no to locking a bike and walking away from it.

Though to be fully clear my stolen bike was just roped onto the rack.

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Re: Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

Post by Stealth_Chopper » Jan 31 2022 2:25pm

I am encouraged by a brave and self sufficient individual like yourself who is able to make it in 'The' City.
You know what you're doing, you're a New Yorker, ignore the peanut gallery responses from these high minded hay seeds.
Why not just buy the best ?

Wouldn't you really rather have a Sur Ron ? :wink:

If ( A BIG IF _ you get a traffic ticket:
Pen in hand; write a respectful correct and polite letter to the busy judge about how
you hurt NO ONE by riding your NON ICE vehicle.

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Re: Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

Post by SafeDiscDancing » Jan 31 2022 3:04pm

Stealth_Chopper wrote:
Jan 31 2022 2:25pm
Wouldn't you really rather have a Sur Ron ? :wink:
It's always good to know past scandals and history of a place.

New York has a history of banning the ebike.

So that is the the most totalitarian place you can go to in the United States for ebike acceptance.

As I understand it they just recently decided to lift those bans and get to the base level most of us enjoy.

San Francisco on the other hand enjoys a very positive bicycle culture and as long as you can dodge all the human feces on the roads you can get around pretty well. They also have hills that are steep so they are more open to slightly more powerful ebikes.

Know the tyranny of your area and only push as much as is practical against it.

Don't let yourself be a victim who gets cracked down upon any more than necessary.

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Re: Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

Post by ebike4healthandfitness » Jan 31 2022 4:36pm

FWIW, Stealth does sell the bare frame used in their bikes:

https://www.electricbike.com/stealth-futr/

www.futrelectricbike.com

Nice frames. My only complaint about Stealth Enduro frames for street use is the aerodynamics. Of course, being an off-road design that is to be expected. However, now that Stealth have achieved street legal status as a moped in EU I predict a more aerodynamic (with less suspension travel) dedicated street version will come later. Perhaps they will call the new frame and bike F-22?

P.S. In the "partial fairing thread" we discussed the power needed to keep a bike and rider at 28 mph using the calculator at http://kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm (default values were used except for rider height and weight which were set to the US average of 70" and 200 pounds). The road bike riding on tops was 685 watts and the Roadster (Classic Dutch upright bike) was 1025 watts. How many watts do you think the B52 would need for 28 mph? 1200 watts? 1300 watts?

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Re: Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

Post by Chalo » Jan 31 2022 10:19pm

SafeDiscDancing wrote:
Jan 31 2022 3:04pm
New York has a history of banning the ebike.

So that is the the most totalitarian place you can go to in the United States for ebike acceptance.
And yet, there are probably more e-bikes there than in any other city in the USA. My hypothesis is that it's more accommodating of modes other than cars, compared to the crappier American cities. But you are free to craft your own explanation.
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Re: Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

Post by calab » Jan 31 2022 10:29pm

I think in nyc it might be better in some respects to have a stand up scooter. You can fold it up and take it with you into the stores, into your expensive apartment closet rental. Are you allowed to take bicycles on the tube?
The bad part of the stand up scooter is its not as visible as a big bicycle is.

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Re: Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

Post by xylene23nyc » Feb 02 2022 1:07pm

calab wrote:
Jan 31 2022 10:29pm
I think in nyc it might be better in some respects to have a stand up scooter. You can fold it up and take it with you into the stores, into your expensive apartment closet rental. Are you allowed to take bicycles on the tube?
The bad part of the stand up scooter is its not as visible as a big bicycle is.
I haven't ridden a stand up scooter here but I can tell you that the roads are ridden with potholes and behind would always be very aggressive drivers that could care less about you. If you are traveling very short distances and only sticking with bike lanes then it's probably ok.

I'm over 6ft 200+ lbs so I'd never feel safe on any light weight stand up scooter here. I'm also into weight lifting so wouldn't mind a heavy 150 lb EEB build.

Ebikes are allowed in the subway system and all the major stations are equipped with Elevators.

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Re: Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

Post by xylene23nyc » Feb 02 2022 1:20pm

SafeDiscDancing wrote:
Jan 31 2022 3:04pm
Stealth_Chopper wrote:
Jan 31 2022 2:25pm
Wouldn't you really rather have a Sur Ron ? :wink:
New York has a history of banning the ebike.

So that is the the most totalitarian place you can go to in the United States for ebike acceptance.

As I understand it they just recently decided to lift those bans and get to the base level most of us enjoy.
.
If I enjoy the EEB build experience here I'll likely sell it eventually after saving enough for a Surron + all the upgrades.

NY has had a recent push to build pedestrian and bike lane infrastructure. I'm sure at one point they believed the city to be too densely populated to support ebikes but now we have more than a few big industry players heavily invested. $ talks. Even Amazon signed a deal for an ebike cargo hub in Manhattan. Cargo ebikes need to be powerful and aren't exactly small.

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Re: Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

Post by owhite » Feb 02 2022 2:11pm

I really dont understand these unilateral comments about how NYC is not permissive to ebikes.

What I know is I spend 1 weekend a month on the upper west side and ebikes are a significant portion of the traffic, particularly for food delivery.

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Re: Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

Post by calab » Feb 02 2022 7:11pm

So you are saying you are a feather light weight :wink: yeah of course they'd need elevators to have access for every body. Here they have enough room and are getting rid of the 1980's buildings with elevators and forcing people to cross the tracks at ground level and forcing people to freeze in bus shelters on the platforms, good thing is very few have heaters. Luckily you can buy heated boots, heated jackets, and heated pants. Milwaukee had a sale on.

Potholes are sure a bitch, I smacked into a few even with one hand and never crashed but they arent that big here.
xylene23nyc wrote:
Feb 02 2022 1:07pm
I'm over 6ft 200+ lbs so I'd never feel safe on any light weight stand up scooter here. I'm also into weight lifting so wouldn't mind a heavy 150 lb EEB build.

Ebikes are allowed in the subway system and all the major stations are equipped with Elevators.

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Re: Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

Post by calab » Feb 02 2022 7:11pm

Because it made the news.
owhite wrote:
Feb 02 2022 2:11pm
I really dont understand these unilateral comments about how NYC is not permissive to ebikes.

What I know is I spend 1 weekend a month on the upper west side and ebikes are a significant portion of the traffic, particularly for food delivery.

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Re: Enduro frame ebike experience in NYC?

Post by Chalo » Feb 03 2022 2:14am

owhite wrote:
Feb 02 2022 2:11pm
I really dont understand these unilateral comments about how NYC is not permissive to ebikes.

What I know is I spend 1 weekend a month on the upper west side and ebikes are a significant portion of the traffic, particularly for food delivery.
https://queenseagle.com/all/2019/1/24/n ... -to-queens

http://www.chelseanewsny.com/news/local ... 0180329996

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industr ... s-new-bill

Like all things that involve the cops, there are heavy elements of racial profiling and selective enforcement. But they've been super dicks to electric bike riders in NYC. Things seems to have improved a bit during pandemic.

If you ask me, riding a farcical motorcycle-with-pedals there is taunting the beast.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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