What QS hub motor do I have?

BALAKEY

100 µW
Joined
Jan 14, 2023
Messages
7
Location
CA, Palm Springs
Hey everyone, I’m new to the ebike scene. Recently I bought a used enduro ebike. I’ve been trying to learn everything I can but I’m having some trouble. I know the hub motor I have has is a QS 12000w peak hub motor but I’m having issues figuring out which one it is. I’m thinking it’s the 273 due to its size but I want to know for sure that’s what it is.
Also, I’m adding a photo that shows other parts. How would I go about tuning the setup with my controller and the cycle analyst display? Currently I’m getting 4000ish watts on a 72v 48a battery. Can I use the display? or should I try using the sabvoton app?
Btw, the #’s & sticker are the only thing I can see on the motor
Thanks
 

Attachments

  • BCC8E376-A226-429D-A4B4-87CB7D75718C.jpeg
    BCC8E376-A226-429D-A4B4-87CB7D75718C.jpeg
    2.4 MB · Views: 611
  • B790B102-9D53-40B2-A148-233C62971748.jpeg
    B790B102-9D53-40B2-A148-233C62971748.jpeg
    2.9 MB · Views: 610
  • F4E00044-2C51-40FE-A713-F5FEEF774C43.jpeg
    F4E00044-2C51-40FE-A713-F5FEEF774C43.jpeg
    2.4 MB · Views: 610
  • 1D758A4B-5005-42A4-9B1E-528D2BCFD408.png
    1D758A4B-5005-42A4-9B1E-528D2BCFD408.png
    526.4 KB · Views: 614
It is a QS 273, probably V3. Since the top speed is 70 MPH, it's probably 3.5T. 5T tend to top out at about 40MPH on 18" wheels with no flux weaking.

I would have a look at the battery and see if there's a sticker with specs or max current it can handle. Maybe you're only getting 4000w because that's what the controller is set to because that's all the battery can handle. At 150A you should be seeing about 9000w peak with this setup. I would open the MQCON mobile app if you have the bluetooth dongle or USB cable to PC and see what max current is set to and check the battery for any specs before thinking about turning up the power but you would do it with the MQCON software or app when you do. CA display can't increase the power output with Sabvoton controllers.
 
BALAKEY said:
How would I go about tuning the setup with my controller and the cycle analyst display?
Tuning the CA can be a complex process, as many settings are interdependent. It may already be tuned for the system's parts as they are now (for instance, the used battery may be less capable than it's original specs, so the CA may be tuned to accomodate that and prevent operational problems or battery damage).

I recommend going to the https://ebikes.ca/product-info/grin-products/cycle-analyst-3.html page which includes info about what it can do, menus, etc., and links to user manuals. After you've read that and decided how you want your system to operate and what exactly you want the system to do for you, go thru the CA menus and write down or take pictures of every setting so you can put them back when a change you make causes undesired operation. Or get the CA-to-computer cable, and download the setup program, then use it to create at least one backup file of those settings (and if possible, screenshot all the settings pages).

The setup program makes it easy to create multiple experimental configuration files, so you can easily and quickly change from one test setup to another without going thru a bunch of menus on the CA screen itself.

Once you have a backup of the settings, then you can post here in this thread your specific operational needs for the system, and we can then try to help figure out what setting changes from existing settings can be used to acheive those, assuming the CA can help you do it (and it doesn't require hardware changes).


Currently I’m getting 4000ish watts on a 72v 48a battery. Can I use the display? or should I try using the sabvoton app?
First, how much of a load are you putting on the system? Meaning, how hard are you using it? Flat roads? Hills? Wind? etc? If you're not pushing the system hard, you won't draw as much power, so there may be no settings changes required.

The CA has a realtime watts display on the main screen (if it's set that way), but you can also see what peak watts is with a bit of math. Charge it up, then press and hold the rightside button to reset all the per-trip stats, so that the power usage will be known from this specific ride and not from some other ride long in the past. (if you like, you can first go thru the screens and write down or take pics of all the stats if you want to save that per-trip info). Then go for a short ride, pushing it as hard as you usually would. Stop somewhere, and then press the rightside button six times to get to this screen
https://ebikes.ca/pub/media/wysiwyg/V3CA_Screen7.jpg
V3CA_Screen7[1].jpg
multiplying the Amax by the Vmin numbers will get you the approximate peak watts the system has drawn from the battery on that run.

Also, is the battery 48A, or 48Ah? The ad screenshot says 48Ah, but doesn't specify it's A. They're very different things, as A is current delivery capability, and Ah is capacity. It's a common confusion.

If it's really only a 48A battery, it can't supply the current the Sabvoton 72150 would need to provide full power. It could only supply 72v x 48A = about 3500W, so the controller (or the CA) could be set to limit current to the 48A to prevent damage to the battery. To fix that, you'd need a new battery capable of the continuous and peak power the system requires to do the job you need it to. If so, then first, you need to define that job to make sure the system even has the power capability required.

But if it's a 48Ah battery, it can probably supply at least bursts of 3C, meaning 3x the 48Ah, and that would allow the controller to supply around 10kW as rated.

(Note that the charger says it can charge in 3 hours; if that is from empty then the charger must be a 16A charger or higher--what does it's labelling say?)


As Adrian notes, if you need to change controller settings, you must use controller-specific software / apps or controller-specific display.

FYI, the CA is not a display for a controller, it is a self-contained computer that takes your various inputs (sensors, throttle, etc) and processes those via the settings chosen in it's menus to create a throttle signal to send to the controller. It cannot communicate with the controller (or vice-versa), so can't read or write any info or settings from/to it.
 
Wow, endless sphere is awesome. Thanks so much for the advice. I will try what both of you told me in the morning & I’ll let you know what I come up with. 10awg wire for my battery. Also, i cant seem to find what bms it uses
 

Attachments

  • CB7C5E66-29C8-42E2-9954-DFD7687AD8DE.jpeg
    CB7C5E66-29C8-42E2-9954-DFD7687AD8DE.jpeg
    2.7 MB · Views: 571
Looks like a clone 273, by the serial number. Not a QSMotor but a 273 clone.

QSMotors say " QSMOTOR " on them as far as I know. The ten or so I have seen in person all said " QSMOTOR " tasered onto the face and had the QS serial number.

I have never seen a QSMOTOR with a " CE" sticker on it either. It is usually just the QSMOTOR " authenticity sticker" but no " CE" sticker.
 
BALAKEY said:
Hey everyone, I’m new to the ebike scene. Recently I bought a used enduro ebike. I’ve been trying to learn everything I can but I’m having some trouble. I know the hub motor I have has is a QS 12000w peak hub motor but I’m having issues figuring out which one it is. I’m thinking it’s the 273 due to its size but I want to know for sure that’s what it is.
Also, I’m adding a photo that shows other parts. How would I go about tuning the setup with my controller and the cycle analyst display? Currently I’m getting 4000ish watts on a 72v 48a battery. Can I use the display? or should I try using the sabvoton app?
Btw, the #’s & sticker are the only thing I can see on the motor
Thanks

OP,
Maybe you can ask the seller to provide proof of purchase for the possibly fake QS Motor and the battery and other major components?
Check ebay policy for false advertisement by seller pls.

If I buy an unicorn on ebay, I would expect an unicorn and not a donkey with a horn and a shiny sticker marked "unicorn"
 
gobi said:
BALAKEY said:
Hey everyone, I’m new to the ebike scene. Recently I bought a used enduro ebike. I’ve been trying to learn everything I can but I’m having some trouble. I know the hub motor I have has is a QS 12000w peak hub motor but I’m having issues figuring out which one it is. I’m thinking it’s the 273 due to its size but I want to know for sure that’s what it is.
Also, I’m adding a photo that shows other parts. How would I go about tuning the setup with my controller and the cycle analyst display? Currently I’m getting 4000ish watts on a 72v 48a battery. Can I use the display? or should I try using the sabvoton app?
Btw, the #’s & sticker are the only thing I can see on the motor
Thanks

OP,
Maybe you can ask the seller to provide proof of purchase for the possibly fake QS Motor and the battery and other major components?
Check ebay policy for false advertisement by seller pls.

If I buy an unicorn on ebay, I would expect an unicorn and not a donkey with a horn and a shiny sticker marked "unicorn"

OP provided a screenshot of facebook marketplace listing description which I'm guessing that's where he got it from so no return policy unless the seller agrees to one. It's a used bike aswell so I doubt it's a dealer that's selling them either.
 
BALAKEY said:
Wow, endless sphere is awesome. Thanks so much for the advice. I will try what both of you told me in the morning & I’ll let you know what I come up with. 10awg wire for my battery. Also, i cant seem to find what bms it uses

The label unfortunately doesn't provide any further useful info; I did find a few other packs with the same "WDDLL-" with google, but they are all -SL instead of -LB, and none of them are like this one. My guess, however, based on the little info on those pages is that the cells are generics, possibly rated at up to 3C at least for bursts, with a BMS rated for (at least bursts of) the same. Meaning, the 15Ah packs I saw (for 48v, didn't see any 72v) had 45A BMS.

*If* the same is true of this pack, then it probably has about a 150A BMS and rated for that at least in bursts. However, that's an assumption, and may have no fact in it. ;)
 
Sorry, been crazy busy with work. Quick update as far as the QS motor. I emailed QS motor with the same photos I showed here & they said it was authentic.The other day I tried using the app. I messed with the settings a little bit but idk. Previous owner had the pole count set to 28 but if it is a 273 I thought it should be 16? I believe it also has a shunt so I’m trying to understand what that is. I plan on doing some major upgrades (battery,bac8000 or4000, motor etc…)pretty soon but I need to make sure I understand what I have now before getting to crazy.
I also think I may have found the battery but again I’m not 100% sure
battery:
https://buildyourebike.com/product/72v-18ah-battery-for-5000-watt/

If you enter the website and scroll down it’s the top battery specs
 
BALAKEY said:
The other day I tried using the app. I messed with the settings a little bit but idk.
Hopefully you noted down all the settings on all tabs and pages before changing anything, so you can set them back when something stops working, for troubleshooting. ;)

(sometimes changing settings to incorrect ones can even damage the hardware, so I would not change any setting you are not sure of what it will do, or without a plan for why you are changing that setting).


I believe it also has a shunt so I’m trying to understand what that is.
All systems have shunts (or other forms of current sensor), usually inside the controller. They often only have one on the battery input wires (negative side) to monitor battery current, but some have one on each of the three phase wires to monitor phase currents (FOC controllers).

You can usually find out what your controller has by either looking at it's model-specific manual, or checking with the manufacturer, if it is important to know where and what it is. Normally unless you are modifying the controller (often in ways that may make it fail) it isn't important.

I plan on doing some major upgrades (battery,bac8000 or4000, motor etc…)pretty soon but I need to make sure I understand what I have now before getting to crazy.
Before you do any upgrades, to do it "right the first time" you first need to define what the bike needs to do for you, under what specific conditions. Then you can find out how much power, battery capacity, motor RPM, etc., that it will take to do that job for you. Then you can buy parts that will do those for you.

Just upgrading to something you think has higher power may just be a waste of time and money. (but it happens fairly often, unfortunatley).

Once you've defined the job it has to do, and the conditions it has to do it in, you can use http://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html to figure out the equipment it would take to do that job. It's a little complicated, but it is very useful once you learn to use it. :) And you'll learn a lot about how the parts of an EV work together to do their job, making it easier to make changes to one to improve it as needed.

https://buildyourebike.com/product/72v-18ah-battery-for-5000-watt/
If you enter the website and scroll down it’s the top battery specs
I don't see anything that shows your specific battery model/brand/etc. The blurry picture shows a labelling style that closely resembles what your has, but it can't be clearly read. If it's not *exactly* the same, then the specs may be wildly different, as it may be made of completely different parts in a completely different way. That's probably not the case here, but it can be.

Even if they are the same manufacturer/model, it doesn't actually have much in the way of important info. If this is the entire specs:
72v 48ah Panasonic Battery. 3456wh Capacity. Supports up to 10,000 Watts. Weight: 15kg. Price delivered: $3550 Cad —– REPLACEMENT FOR MODEL TR3 (worlds longest range ebike battery pack)
Unfortunately it doesn't say what model of cell is in there, or how many (to determine cell-capability for current, voltage sag, etc), or anything about the BMS, etc. Doesn't even have the very basics of either C-rate of pack (multiplier for Ah that gives A) either peak or continuous, or the actual A peak and continuous. Doesnt say if it is 10kw peak or continuous, or if it is peak for how long, etc. All of that is important information to predict battery and system behavior. ;)

One can guess that if the 10kw is a continuous rating that 10000w / 72v = 139A. Guess-extrapolations:

If it's say, a 15p pack of 18650 panasonic cells (no idea which model of cell, lots of different ones available each with different capabilities), then the current for each cell would be 139 / 15 = 9.3A each, which isn't unreasonable. If it's a 10p pack, that's more like 14A each, still reasonable, depending on cell model. It would need a 150A-capable BMS, too, for that.

It's probably more than 10p, as that would require 4.8Ah cells, not sure any of those exist in this type (and even if they do, generally higher current versions have less capacity, and vice-versa). If it was 15p, that's 48Ah / 15 = 3.2Ah, and I think there are a couple or more models of Panasonic with that capacity.

If we knew which cell it had and how many, we'd be able to figure out it's real capabilities, assuming new, well-matched cells. Knowing the BMS specs would also help.
 
I would like to know more about the battery and what cells are inside the battery. Or what battery is it where did it come from ? I'm in who is the real manufacturer.
 
It's a QS273 3.5t motor with a 150a bms ............How do I know?.........Because I currently have one that I'm 'tuning' the crap out of. :bolt:

Jonno
 
Jonno said:
It's a QS273 3.5t motor with a 150a bms ............How do it know?.........Because I currently have one that I'm 'tuning' the crap out of. :bolt:

Jonno

How do you know that OP's battery has a 150A when there's no info on the manufacturer and the label on the battery is vague to say the least? Just because a bike has a QS 273 motor it doesn't automatically mean that it has a 150A continuous capable battery or even a controller than can do 150A.
 
Because I dismantled the battery and did a BMS bypass on the discharge side. 150a on the BMS label.

Motors have nothing to do with wattage output. The controller and battery determine that.
If you have crappy 150a controller @ 80v then it's 12kw assuming the battery has a 150a BMS.
Anything Less and it's not 12kw

Jonno
 
pm me if you want to set it up properly

jonno
 
Jonno said:
Because I dismantled the battery and did a BMS bypass on the discharge side. 150a on the BMS label.
You dismantled *his* battery?

If you didn't work on *his* bike, then you don't know what is in *his* bike, only in yours. ;)
 
Which bit don't you understand? Exact same bike, same motor, same battery, same CA ...............no wonder I left this forum.........

Amberwolf - as you are of limited understanding - they made more than one of these bikes pictured above and I also have one.

Requested Deletion of account
 
It isn't limited understanding.

It is me trying not to make assumptions that two things are identical because they look the same, when there is not enough information to make that determination, and plenty of reasons to not assume that.


I don't see anywhere in your posts in this thread except this last one above that says you have this same exact bike. If you had said that before, then your assumption that it's the same as yours would have made some sense to us.



Even then, since he got his used, and he does not know who made it or where it came from, you cannot know for certain that it is exactly the same as yours.

It might be. It might not be. It could have been modified by the previous owner, even if it came from the same place yours did (which none of us can know if it did or not).

So it is not necessarily safe to assume it is exactly the same, even if it looks the same on the outside.
 
Strange ... same numbers on the battery and it might have been modified - but you know best :thumb:

YOU HELP HIM instead
 
That's more information...which none of us had until you posted it.

I'm not trying to make an argument about who is right, wrong or otherwise. Only trying to not make any assumptions about what someone has, who probably can't verify for certain what they have for themselves, so that they don't make decisions based on information that could cause them a problem later.
 
I stated above that I have the same bike (among 4 others),,,,,,.,,am I missing something?

Dictionary reference for the uneducated
SAME: identical with what is about to be or has just been mentioned

No further help coming from me :D
 
A lot of text here that i didn’t read, if it wasn’t clear already, that’s not a QS motor, the marking does not match their text format. You might want to change the topic title.

Could be a clone but then we don’t know anything about it (except users of this specific kit that might have some (relevant but anecdotal) input.
 
Op emailed QS and they confirmed it's one of theirs.

READ THE POSTS BEFORE YOU COMMENT :shock:
 
larsb said:
A lot of text here that i didn’t read, if it wasn’t clear already, that’s not a QS motor, the marking does not match their text format. You might want to change the topic title.

Could be a clone but then we don’t know anything about it (except users of this specific kit that might have some (relevant but anecdotal) input.

OP emailed QS/MQCON with photos and they confirmed that it's authentic motor.

I believe it doesn't have QS Motor labeling as it was probably sold to an ODM in bulk. The numbers on the motor does follow QS's format, first 6 digits is the manufacturing date (year, month, day) followed by random sequence of numbers sometimes with the winding type at the end which is typically represented with "T" which is not in this case but not abnormal.
 
So maybe AMBERWOLF - expert on all things ebike and LarsB - expert on QS273 motors would like to help the OP :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Back
Top