Watch yer back. Bike rider killed by drunk.

The rest of the story, from a recent car vs bicycle fatality in El Paso. The rider, a dedicated lycra wearing roadie with all the flashies and reflectors on was run down by a lady. Now confirmed, she was drunk, had been drinking all night, and fell asleep at the wheel driving home. Killed him DOA, while he was riding early in the morning, in the dark.

That flasher is not going to save you, be aware of every single car that approaches from behind, at all times, and never trust a single one of em. Maybe you can dodge out of the way, maybe not, but definitely not if you ride along trusting car drivers.

The real answer is to go much faster, so no cars are passing you. That's the primary reason I build my bikes fast. I'd be terrified if cars were passing me all the time. I only get passed by a car a couple of times a week in my daily riding, and I generally get to choose when they do. I own the lane and pick a good time and location for me to move to the side for them to pass. I inconvenience them so little that I've never been honked at. Most of the time, I pace traffic, at least till they get stuck in traffic, when I pass them by the hundreds each week.

John

Hi John,
How fast do you ride? I like to keep up with the flow of traffic, however I don't like to ride faster than 35 mph. It would be interesting to find out how fast the drunk lady was going when she hit the bike. I believe I can design a safety E-Trike that can prevent an injury from a rear impact with a 35 mph velocity difference.
Don Gerhardt

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Interesting article in the Examiner says a study found cyclists at fault in only ten percent of collisions.

CARS SUCK
They suck the life out neighbourhoods, the landscape, the air and apparently suck out peoples' brains through their wallets.

"The available evidence suggests that collisions have far more to do with aggressive driving than aggressive cycling."

I ride on the opposite side of the road as much as I can this way you can always see the cars coming towards you, they get quieter every year. It feel a little weird at first but not as weird when trucks are comming up beside you when you are on the correct side of the road. Riding on the opposite side on bridges is just too weird.

Zoot Katz said:

Interesting article in the Examiner says a study found cyclists at fault in only ten percent of collisions.

CARS SUCK
They suck the life out neighbourhoods, the landscape, the air and apparently suck out peoples' brains through their wallets.

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Sitting down town smoking tar and cars they reverse park and blow a whole heap of smoke in your face from their tail pipe, the get out and look at you though their noses because you are smoking and polluting the area with tobacco smoke. I know, I would love to kick the habit but you think ICE would have been the first concern with passive smoke inhalation.

gerhardt said:

Hi John,
How fast do you ride? I like to keep up with the flow of traffic, however I don't like to ride faster than 35 mph. It would be interesting to find out how fast the drunk lady was going when she hit the bike. I believe I can design a safety E-Trike that can prevent an injury from a rear impact with a 35 mph velocity difference.
Don Gerhardt

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Don,

It depends on the road, but with a long enough stretch both will do over 50mph. My bikes are longer, lower, and have a bit more trail than most bikes, so they're nice and stable at those speeds. Most of my riding though is cruising in the 30-40mph range except for one of the routes back from the grocery where traffic is faster. It's a slight downhill grade and a perfect road, so I jump up to 40-50 speeds pretty quick to match the flow without issue. There's too much wind noise at high speed, but 30-40 is great. Riding is different here in Costa Rica, traffic isn't going as fast because most roads don't permit it, and drivers are accustomed to all manner of slow obstacles in the road.

If I rode stateside, my bikes would need to be electric motorcycles, because I never be comfortable with car whizzing by. Unless they're mostly vacant, I wouldn't be comfortable on bike/walking paths either, since I have no interest in putzing around at 20mph and below, and me flying by on something narrower than a road doesn't sound too safe for me or them.

I ride because it saves time and is fun. I hate being stuck in a car in traffic with a passion, and used to schedule leaving the house for moderate traffic times. Traffic is now a non-issue. In fact, peak time traffic is even more pleasurable. I get slowed down a bit by the cars, but at those times they can't go fast enough to hurt me even if they did hit me, and passing them in huge chunks is sweet.

John

Route selection does play a role, for sure. I wouldn't have made the road where the biker got killed my first choice. With a 45 mph speed limit and a narrowish shoulder it was a good place to die. Even if that does not excuse the drunk driver, it is still a major contributor to the accident. The drunk can't hit you unless you are there to be hit. Personally my route is designed to avoid as many cars as possible. I could ride the bike trail more, but I found it better to bail off it before I came to the more congested area near the colledge. 6 miles of it I have a wide shoulder on a 45 mph road and nothing but a paint stripe between me and the delivery truck that is driving along reading his PDA to see where he's going next. In this situation, ( the cars are going to be going 55 in the 45 zone) my bike will never be fast enough. But at 25 mph, I can at least be ready to dive off the road if the cars wheel is scraping the gutter. It's gonna smart, and I'll go to the hospital, but I can bail at 25 mph and survive. As for the bike trail, I have a good one. I didn't realise how good till I rode some others in elsewhere. At 8 foot wide, it's great compared to 4 or 5 foot wide ones that seem typical. The city made it wide so a truck can drive on it to give maintinance crews acess to the landscaping.


I don't know if it's the miles they ride or what, but I see a lot of car ignoring behaviour from folks in lycra while people on motorcycles seem to be constantly swiveling their heads to see every car's actions. The main point I wanted to remind people of, is monitor every car that could hit you. The biker in this incident was all alone early in the morning on a street that would be busy as hell in 2 more hours. Normaly very safe, but he didn't see the car that killed him in time. Don't know if he had an Ipod going, but I bet he did.

Numerous studies and real-world events show that flashing lights attract the drunk drivers. They steer right towards them.

Dogman,

Good point about lycra vs motorcycle guys. I guess the cyclists just get used to cars passing so much and just ride on with the assumption they won't be hit. Like you, I don't trust them as far as I could pick up their wheeled cage and throw it. Mirrors vibrate to much to be useful for me, so I'm a swivel-head too but I know of any car long before it reaches striking distance. I count myself lucky that I'm a good 10-20 times safer on the road than you guys can be, despite my higher speeds. Traffic is generally slow enough to pace or pass, and obstructions in the road (pedestrians, bikes, carts, cows, missing manhole covers, etc) are so common that drivers are forced to pay much closer attention instead of the autopilot nature of driving in the US.

Drivers are generally more patient here too (except getting on the horn the split second a light changes), because they have to tolerate stuff like buses stopping every 100-200M with no room to pass, or 2 buses or cars stopped in opposite directions having a chat, and stuff like that. I guess that is a carryover to the days before cars were so common, so the roads were meeting places with your neighbors. That kind of stuff takes a while to get used to, but once you just take a deep breath and accept it, you start to take your time a smell the roses a bit yourself. People in the states could use a little more of that, since it really doesn't matter if you get somewhere a few seconds or minutes later. That gives you more time to relax and listen to your favorite music.

John

317537 said:

I ride on the opposite side of the road as much as I can this way you can always see the cars coming towards you, they get quieter every year. It feel a little weird at first but not as weird when trucks are comming up beside you when you are on the correct side of the road. Riding on the opposite side on bridges is just too weird.

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It is illegal. But also much less safe than riding with traffic.

Yeah, but in CR all the traffic laws are only suggestions. Getting more and more that way here too though, untill they put up the cameras.

dogman said:

Yeah, but in CR all the traffic laws are only suggestions. Getting more and more that way here too though, untill they put up the cameras.

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I call them "guidelines to establish fault in the event of an accident". Too few police in general, and traffic stuff is handled only by the Transit Police who are much fewer in number, and they mostly help direct traffic a peak times, and otherwise just post themselves under a handful of know shade trees as speed traps and checking for inspection & registration. Other than the late night rice rocket racers, there's just not much excessive speed because of traffic obstacles in the road and few roads where the road itself permits it. More often than not, it's me doing the tailgating, and while I go faster than most of you guys, my bikes are set up so they really are fine at 40-45mph. My first e-bike was a normal upright hardtail, and it only did 30mph, but it felt too fast at that. Much lower seat, longer wheelbase, disk brakes, and a bit more trail makes a world or difference above pedal speeds. Pacing traffic makes a world of difference in being safer from cars.

John

John in CR said:

... Mirrors vibrate to much to be useful for me, so I'm a swivel-head too but I know of any car long before it reaches striking distance.
John

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I use a "Third Eye" helmet mounted mirror. It vibrates too, but I have learned to live with that as it has saved me from almost certain death 3 times in the last 20 years. Each time I've had to jump the kerb and go bush. Once by a truck and twice by yummy mummies driving 4-wheel drives talking on their mobile phones after dropping off the kids at school.
I've never gotten around to figuring out how to damp out the vibrations, I just average the blur by squinting (like when they pixelate a face for privacy on TV. By squinting you can make out the features quite easily).
The other benefit is that it's great for discrete perving. :wink:

ElectricEd said:

John in CR said:

... Mirrors vibrate to much to be useful for me, so I'm a swivel-head too but I know of any car long before it reaches striking distance.
John

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I use a "Third Eye" helmet mounted mirror. It vibrates too, but I have learned to live with that as it has saved me from almost certain death 3 times in the last 20 years. Each time I've had to jump the kerb and go bush. Once by a truck and twice by yummy mummies driving 4-wheel drives talking on their mobile phones after dropping off the kids at school.
I've never gotten around to figuring out how to damp out the vibrations, I just average the blur by squinting (like when they pixelate a face for privacy on TV. By squinting you can make out the features quite easily).
The other benefit is that it's great for discrete perving. :wink:

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Ed,

I understand, but "they gotta catch me to hit me" is my approach, and here there's nowhere to go other than were I already am. Greater speed means you cross paths with far fewer cars, but you do have to make sure your equipment is safe at the higher speeds. Plus with a fast bike you have to match your speed with road conditions, so while having far faster potential than most, other than takeoffs I'm at full throttle much much less of the time than guys on ebikes that aren't any faster than old fashioned "ice wagons".

If you guys aren't looking far enough ahead to avoid run-ins with the police, shame on you. Building a fast safe e-bike isn't that difficult, but it takes more effort than just slapping an X5 on a regular bike and over-volting it. Pacing traffic will make you much safer, just do go those speeds on bike/pedestrian paths, it's meant for the road. Just take Dogman's advice and ride like every car is out to run over you, and pay close attention. Then crossing paths with fewer tonnes of moving metal will inherently make you safer. I absolutely love the transportation freedom of my e-bikes, but if many cars were passing me on every ride, I would ride very little.

John

chet said:

317537 said:

I ride on the opposite side of the road as much as I can this way you can always see the cars coming towards you, they get quieter every year. It feel a little weird at first but not as weird when trucks are comming up beside you when you are on the correct side of the road. Riding on the opposite side on bridges is just too weird.

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It is illegal. But also much less safe than riding with traffic.

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Plus riding into oncoming traffic is a great way to GUARANTEE your death and obliteration if anything happens that causes you or an oncoming vehicle to swerve into each other.

Your speeds ADD that way, so if you were going 15MPH, and they're going 55MPH, you just got hit at 70MPH and are almost certainly very very dead. Possibly in pieces.

If you were going 15MPH and they were going 55MPH, you only get tagged at 40MPH, and you *might* survive that. Maybe.

But maybe is better than nothing.

317537 probably grew up when I did. As a kid in the 60's, that's how they taught us we were supposed to ride. I always liked it better because I could see what's coming, and that may be the cause of my current aversion to having cars pass me from behind. At some point since then, they changed the teaching, rightfully so, for riding against traffic and it is now illegal.

John

Yup, here too, we were told to ride on the wrong side of the road in 1965, and then in 1973 they had to stop us all one by one and tell us, now we want you to ride like the traffic does, and stop at stop signs etc. Previously, we were considered non vehicles, and traffic laws didn't apply.

John in CR said:

Ed,

I understand, but "they gotta catch me to hit me" is my approach, and here there's nowhere to go other than were I already am. Greater speed means you cross paths with far fewer cars, but you do have to make sure your equipment is safe at the higher speeds. Plus with a fast bike you have to match your speed with road conditions, so while having far faster potential than most, other than takeoffs I'm at full throttle much much less of the time than guys on ebikes that aren't any faster than old fashioned "ice wagons".

If you guys aren't looking far enough ahead to avoid run-ins with the police, shame on you. Building a fast safe e-bike isn't that difficult, but it takes more effort than just slapping an X5 on a regular bike and over-volting it. Pacing traffic will make you much safer, just do go those speeds on bike/pedestrian paths, it's meant for the road. Just take Dogman's advice and ride like every car is out to run over you, and pay close attention. Then crossing paths with fewer tonnes of moving metal will inherently make you safer. I absolutely love the transportation freedom of my e-bikes, but if many cars were passing me on every ride, I would ride very little.

John

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Cars will always be faster, no matter the size of your electric motor. Even motorcycles get hit by a car and they are way faster (although most accidents occurs at low speed).

In this case, the woman was drunk, there's nothing you can do about that. If it wasn't the cyclist, it could of been another car, motorcycle or even pedestrian. She was going to kill someone, just happened to be a cyclist this time. She should be put away - and not one of those light sentence where you come out in two years with probation.

Leamcorp,

I completely disagree. Going faster she never would have come up from behind to run the guy over. At intersections I proceed under the assumption that no car is stopping till I see them start to do so. On a bike or a motorcycle I ride under the assumption that I'm invisible to cars until I know they have seen me. If motorcyclists rode under those assumptions they wouldn't get hit. Same goes for driving cars for that matter. That's why I've been able to avoid the idiots on the road for decades regardless of my vehicle type. Defensive riding is a given, but as I said before, matching traffic speeds means you have less cars within striking distance during any given ride, and that increases the odds in your favor. It goes without saying that at higher speeds an ebiker has to pay closer attention to those about to pull out from a cross street, or turn left in front of you, or change lanes into you, etc., but that's all part of defensive riding along with matching road conditions and the invisibility assumption.

John

I agree with John in everything, with the exception that here in AZ (and the rest of USA AFAIK) it's illegal for an electric-assisted bicycle to go faster than 20mph when using it's assist (and trying to keep up using pedals would be impossible for most people, and couldn't be done for long by anyone), so keeping up with traffic speeds is not really possible.

If it's registered/etc as a class of vehicle that in your jurisdiction *does* allow those speeds, then I would definitely recommend it as a method of minimizing rear-enders with you as the hood ornament.

Otherwise, riding defensively, assuming you are invisible, and always paying so much attention to the road that you go broke is a really good idea.

Even though my ebike is lit better than some cars and many motorcycles, and I ride very carefully by the rules of the road, including using my lighted turn signals, brake lights, etc., I still know that people don't always see me (or care, when they do), and have had some near misses that leave me shaking despite me having been watching. If I weren't paying careful attention, they wouldn't have been misses.

Because of visibility, I *prefer* riding at night, because my lighting makes people react to me as a regular vehicle, and I usually am given the whole lane, where in the daytime I get passed so close I've had my mirror moved by their passage on occasion, and when riding my regular upright bike have been sucked into the lane by their wake, or pushed off the road by their bowshock. Wind/air is not so much a problem on the CrazyBike, because it weighs so much, but I can still feel it and it does push me around, just not dangerously so. At night, the lighting keeps them away from me and generally I feel safer, though I still have to keep an eye out at all times for the one that doesn't care or isn't paying attention, which has included police vehicles and other bicycles.

You can't really trust anybody--I've been rear-ended by a few other cyclists when I stop for traffic controls, because apparently some never do, and just sail on thru, so they expected me to as well and didn't even look. Didn't hurt me or CrazyBike2, but it bent one guy's wheel, and he had to walk from there on. One of the others got mad at me for stopping, but it's required, as well as being a good idea, and he just vented for a minute and then apologized for running into me, and left.

Like Leamcorp, I agree that speed is not the answer. And why do you assume the driver has to hunt you down and hit you from behind? Have you heard of people throwing projectiles at cyclists?!? Over 2 decades of cycling, beer cans, bottles, a dead cat had been thrown at me and a water gun loaded with hot water had been squirted directly at me too. Just imagine if you are traveling at 80km/h and somebody throws a bottle at you and hit you. At what speed is that bottle going to hit you at?

3 weeks ago, a wife of a friend of mine got hit by car. The driver of the brand new BMW 5 series mowed her down intentionally. He thought he got away from it, but didn't realize the husband was videotaping her riding from a distance. Suffice to say, he did stop and exchange info. They are suing and charging him with attempted murder. Likewise, John, can your bike outrun a brand new fast BMW 5 series if the driver has every intention to kill you?

Keep that in mind when you ride next time, because if you wear a bulletproof vest, it doesn't mean that you can not be killed by a gun.

DE.

Amberwolf,
My answer would be to make it a registered class of vehicle. In the meantime, if you aren't looking far enough ahead to avoid legal issues, then you aren't paying close enough attention or the conditions don't warrant that speed.

Dahon,
Regardless of speed you'd be prey for someone actually hunting you down to run you over, but if you're traveling faster the odds of them running across you decrease drastically. Sorry about your friend's wife. Had that been me, it would have been very bad indeed, because I would have shot the frocker dead on the spot. I didn't get your point about 80kph, and I almost never go that fast anyway.

John

Or this..

http://blog.taragana.com/n/top-canadian-politician-kills-cyclist-in-road-rage-156977/

And it just happened recently in our country by a top Canadian politician. Murder can be committed by anyone.

What I meant by 80kph point was about the projectile (being a beer bottle or a dead cat) becoming a nasty kinetic energy weapon. Most of the time, a cyclist doesn't travel very fast along a flat stretch of road, so when somebody throws stuff at you, there's not enough kinetic energy to disorient you. Since the projectile's kinetic energy density increased as a function of speed, both the object that someone is throwing at you has a speed component and you yourself has a speed component. Since you are traveling beyond what a normal cyclist won't normally do, the impact energy force dissipation would be much greater. In other words, you will feel energy being dispersed by anything that hits you simply because you chose to go much faster. This is something you have no control of since you can not outrun any car, anyone who has an axe to grind against any cyclist can simply throw a bottle at you and that becomes a dangerous high speed projectile. It is a projectile and you are also a projectile. When the projectile is thrown out of a car at a speed faster than you, that projectile will initially have the same speed of the moving vehicle. But it is moving towards you. You are also a projectile because you are moving towards the oncoming projectile. If the object travels at 50kph and you are 40kph, you do the math. There's going to be some nasty kinetic energy dispersion from the object itself. It becomes a kinetic energy weapon. Remember the Star Wars program!

It doesn't really matter how fast you're moving or trying to outrun a car. A person in the car will always be faster than you and can cause very serious harm to you by simply throwing stuff at you and it doesn't have to be a bottle.

And yeah, my friend is pretty pissed and what bugs him the most was that the BMW guy hired a high priced lawyer and tried to point the fingers on to her as being the person at fault!

DE.