What kind of helmet do you use?

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Re: Bicycle helmets (UK)

Post by Joseph C. » Oct 07 2015 10:45am

Punx0r wrote:OK, so, would you agree that cycling is no more dangerous than driving a car as long as your cycle mileage doesn't exceed 1/15th of your driving mileage?

I was curious enough to do a quick search for cyclist-pedestrian collisions and they are indeed relatively rare: they constitute 2% of fatal pedestrian collisions in urban areas. With the chances of a pedestrian being injured by a cyclist 1.2 times less than by a motor vehicle and the chances of being killed 2.5 times less on a per-mile-travelled basis.

The total number of pedestrians killed by cyclist from 2009-2013 is 14 (1245 for cars). The total seriously injured is 334 (20181 for cars).

http://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/fil ... s4rrv2.pdf
I'm very surprised that 14 people were killed by bicycles over a five year period. I would have expected that number to be low single digits.

By comparison though at least 15 people from the UK were killed in just two plane crash incidents in the last eight months. Four in Canada and 11 in Shoreham. Your chances of being killed by a bicycle may indeed by lower than your chances of being killed in a plane crash which was absurdly low to begin.

Edit: And another man was killed last month and the three in the Germanwings mass murder. That's 19 people in one year.
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Re: Bicycle helmets (UK)

Post by LockH » Oct 07 2015 10:48am

Better safe than sorry. (I added extra padding.)
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Re: Bicycle helmets (UK)

Post by John in CR » Oct 07 2015 11:49am

LockH wrote:Better safe than sorry. (I added extra padding.)
Except that it doesn't increase overall safety, and even if padded perfectly that amour is sure to decrease overall safety due to extreme restrictions on vision.

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Re: Bicycle helmets (UK)

Post by Punx0r » Oct 07 2015 5:28pm

After all this discussion about your odds of being hit and killed by a car/bicycle/plane you'd probably end up being struck by lightning wearing that :D

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Re: Bicycle helmets (UK)

Post by John in CR » Oct 07 2015 6:07pm

Punx0r wrote:After all this discussion about your odds of being hit and killed by a car/bicycle/plane you'd probably end up being struck by lightning wearing that :D
LOL!

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Re: Bicycle helmets (UK)

Post by MadRhino » Oct 08 2015 8:01am

LOL

The odds to die are 100%

Those who are afraid have started to die already, for they are keeping off living with their obsession to survive.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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Re: Bicycle helmets (UK)

Post by Joseph C. » Oct 12 2015 6:17pm

Another reason why wearing helmets can be dangerous.

http://irishcycle.com/2015/10/12/rsa-fu ... in-injury/
RSA-funded researcher admits helmets could increase risk of brain injury
RSA-FUNDED RESEARCHER ADMITS HELMETS COULD INCREASE RISK OF BRAIN INJURY
October 12, 2015 · by Cian Ginty · in News
— Increased risk not disclosed by RSA

— RSA-funded expert not in favour of mandatory helmets

Research funded by the Road Safety Authority shows that “in some cases” bicycle helmets increase the risk of brain injury in collisions, but this was not disclosed by the authority.

The Road Safety Authority released a press release last week highlighting where the research found some benefits of wearing bicycle helmets, but the authority made no mention of how the research also found an increased risk caused by wearing helmets in one case study — a finding which is likely to be repeated in other cases.

The RSA press release also brushed over “the elephant in the room”, starting with the line: “A UCD Professor who conducted a study of cyclists with fatal head injuries has recommended that bicycle helmets are worn to protect against head injuries in the event of a collision, particularly at speeds of less than 50km/h”, but failing at this point to state what had to be going less than that speed — motorists driving. Only after the mid-point in the long press release is a mention of drivers needing to slow down. This was reflected in media coverage last week which did not link the 50km/h speed and motorists.

Professor Michael Gilchrist, head of the School of Mechanical and Materials Engineering at UCD, confirmed the increased risk finding, but he said that more collision data collection and research was needed. On Today FM’s The Last Word with Matt Cooper last week, professor Gilchrist said “in some cases you can get increased angular accelerations wearing a helmet”.

He was responding to a statement from Shane Foran of the Galway Cycling Campaign. Foran said: “I have not had a chance to review professor Gilchrist’s paper from today, but I do know that in a previous paper he found evidence of increased angular acceleration in one paper which he presented in Germany, which was a model of a fatality involving a 27-year-old male.” We understand that the findings presented at an RSA conference last week and in the paper presented in Germany is part of the same body of work.

He continued: “Angular acceleration where somebody is wearing a helmet is basically where the rotational forces on their head are increased. That may also be associated with a risk of increased brain injury.”

Professor Michael Gilchrist, said: “Shane, you’re right in some cases you can get increased angular accelerations wearing a helmet, but in other cases you don’t.”

He said that certification of bicycle helmets only currently focuses on liner accelerations, he said that the certification standards “ignore completely the affects of rotational or angular accelerations” and that should be changed.

Gilchrist added: “Why the angular accelerations can be greater depends on a particular event and that depends on Newton’s law of motions and that’s why we need more detail accident investigation so we can do a more systematic study. Rather than make a recommendation on one isolated case.”

The paper by Gilchrist presented in Germany stated: “There are many studies linking head angular acceleration with brain injuries, especially diffuse axonal injury, as this is caused primarily by head angular acceleration”

Gilchrist also said that his research showed benefits in wearing bicycle helmets where the motorists involved in the collision is traveling at less than 50km/h, but no measurable benefits well above that speed. Campaigners say this is worrying because the RSA’s latest free-speedRSA’s latest free-speed survey shows that 83.4% of car drivers were found speeding on urban arterial roads with speed limits of 50km/h at uncontested times.

Gilchrist said: “For speeds that were relatively moderate, typically up to about 50km/h, it was pretty clear that there were benefits to had by wearing a helmet. It other words, the forces that were transmitted to the head were reduced in the presence of a helmet then if the person had not been wearing a helmet and to me that’s quite conclusive to suggest that a person should be wearing a helmet.”

He added: “What was interesting at the high speeds, at very high speeds above 50km/h, it was ambiguous. It was not very clear whether there were any there was any significant benefits to wearing a helmet.”

His research is based on computer modeling of the details of 37 cases of cycling road deaths.

He is not in favour of making helmets mandatory. On the Last Word he said: “Personally I’d be of the view that it is not in the long-term interest to make it mandatory to wear helmets… There are consequences to people’s behaviour, if it becomes mandatory then people feel that cycling is a more dangerous activity.”

Gilchrist said that policing mandatory helmets would also be an issue. This promoted presenter Matt Cooper to suggest: “But we’re able to police people going through red lights and not having lights on their bikes and they are getting their €40 fine… Why not have a similar fine if you’re riding your bike without a helmet.”

Gilchrist replied: “One could do but look at the health benefits of people cycling — if you make helmets mandatory there’s a possible consequence that fewer people will want to cycle and that can’t be a good thing.”

Fines

Asked about on-the-spot fines, Foran said: “Overall, yes, it’s a good thing that there is a more convenient way for the Gardai to apply the regulations to cyclists but we should not lose sight of the fact that we are looking at a road system which was designed often exclusively around cars and in some situations it does not make sense for cyclists to stop at every red light. I’m not talking about reckless red light running, I’m talkin about situations where in other countries cyclists would be allowed to typically turn left at a red light if they were turning onto a cycle lane.”

Overall he said it was a very welcome development, including bicycle lights not being used.
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Re: Bicycle helmets (UK)

Post by John in CR » Oct 12 2015 7:09pm

The 3 primary holes in the concept that helmet use should be mandated are:
1. Less people will ride, and riding is an overall benefit to health.
2. Wearing a helmet increases the odds of crashing due to a variety of reasons.
3. Mandatory helmet laws have been implemented in a number of places, and there has been no measurable benefit to overall safety. This differs from seatbelt and airbag laws where the resulting benefits were easily measured.

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Re: Bicycle helmets (UK)

Post by Pemalite » Oct 12 2015 8:04pm

Chalo wrote:
Pemalite wrote:This discussion has been on-going in Australia... We were the first country to make it law back in the 90's after all. Helmets did reduce head injuries by 23%.
https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety- ... cle-helmet
My understanding is that this was the result of the mandatory helmet law reducing ridership by more than 23%, meaning mortality rates actually rose.

More cyclists on the road makes them safer for cyclists. Helmet laws reduce the number of cyclists on the road, and are demonstrated to encourage unsafe passing by motorists too.
Even so. The statistics showed that the amount of injury during an accident decreased and that injury shifted from head to the limbs. That's not something that is easy to ignore.

Also stumbled upon a video today where a professional rider had a crash and mangled his face... Something that a full face helmet (That he should have been wearing!) would have easily solved.
https://www.facebook.com/FailDownhill/v ... 2164583930
Joseph C. wrote:Another reason why wearing helmets can be dangerous.

http://irishcycle.com/2015/10/12/rsa-fu ... in-injury/
RSA-funded researcher admits helmets could increase risk of brain injury
RSA-FUNDED RESEARCHER ADMITS HELMETS COULD INCREASE RISK OF BRAIN INJURY
October 12, 2015 · by Cian Ginty · in News
— Increased risk not disclosed by RSA

— RSA-funded expert not in favour of mandatory helmets

SNIP
Most of that is focused on the damages that rotational forces may do... And that is also a problem for Motorcyclists and Motocross and other motorized sports.
A technology was thus invented to assist in the mitigation of that... Known as MIPS.

https://player.vimeo.com/video/137267018

Again, helmets will not protect you from ALL accidents, but they will help you from the accidents that matter if you buy the right type of helmet for the job, ebikers I would expect nothing less than full faced...

Also RSA backs up with data that shows that for moderate speeds, a helmet does actually help.. And let's be honest, that data wasn't collected with a MIPS full faced helmet, you will have cheap $5 helmets in that dataset, you get what you pay for.

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Re: Bicycle helmets (UK)

Post by LockH » Oct 13 2015 2:20am

Question please? When tapping about "helmets", do the "Danish-style" like the Yakkay come to mind?
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http://www.yakkay.com/

... or might one think more like the upside-down ice bucket variety as seen commonly riding around in my town?
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Re: Bicycle helmets (UK)

Post by Punx0r » Oct 13 2015 2:24am

The 50 KPH speed issue needs further clarification: Is that based on impact speed, or free-travelling speed before an incident? Real traffic collisions rarely happen at free-travelling speed.

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Re: Bicycle helmets (UK)

Post by Chalo » Oct 13 2015 11:00pm

To be clear, bicycle helmets are certified with an impact equivalent to a severed head moving at 14mph (a free fall from 6 feet). Real traffic speeds and added inertia transfer from the rider's body is not taken into account.
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More noobpidity: What kind of helmet do you wear?

Post by eSurfer » Feb 22 2016 2:14pm

First of all, let me apologize for all of my stupid noob questions. If they are annoying you, please skip my threads, and I promise I will run out of questions soon. I greatly appreciate the wisdom shared with me so far.

I was wondering if any of you seasoned eBikers wore a helmet that was different than the standard bike helmets that lycra guys wear. I've been wearing my helmet like that, but I'm beginning to feel silly wearing it sitting upright on my beach cruiser. Those helmets are designed for guys humped over on $10,000 carbon road bikes, not me sitting upright, commuting on my beach cruiser. Because of that, I have not always been wearing a helmet and know that this is stupid. I know feeling silly is not a good reason, and I would feel even more silly, and worse, with the side of my head caved in. What do you wear? Could I see pics?
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Re: More noobpidity: What kind of helmet do you wear?

Post by Ykick » Feb 22 2016 2:25pm

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Re: More noobpidity: What kind of helmet do you wear?

Post by eSurfer » Feb 22 2016 2:31pm

amberwolf wrote::(

There are already a bunch of threads for this, which even a very simple search finds:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/searc ... mit=Search
even one thread that is almost exactly the same title as yours.

Sorry if I come across as harsh, but a lot of people don't use the search at all, and this is one instance that looks like that, especially since the topic of helmets is a common one, and like disc vs rim brakes, a loaded one that has been argued to death a bajillion times.
Yeah, I've done some searches and looked at a lot of that, but most of the relevant threads are a couple of years old and many of the links no longer work. Lots of discussion on helmets for high speed, but not much on what the average person is wearing. No discussion on looks and style, which is not that important, but I would be interested to know what everyone is currently wearing. Like I have said before, if my threads are annoying you, please feel free to ignore them. Thanks for your patience with my noobpitidy...I'll run out of questions soon.

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Re: More noobpidity: What kind of helmet do you wear?

Post by Lurkin » Feb 22 2016 3:19pm

Mores the point helmet design is constantly changing/ updating to newer designs and should be replaced relatively frequently to remain effective.

Bell Super for me. Main attraction was the ability to clip on or remove full face and it's bright green assisting with visibility for road users.

Those doing motorcycle speeds should be using motorcycle helmets, not bicycle. They are designed for that level of impact.

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Re: More noobpidity: What kind of helmet do you wear?

Post by eSurfer » Feb 22 2016 3:49pm

Lurkin wrote:Mores the point helmet design is constantly changing/ updating to newer designs and should be replaced relatively frequently to remain effective.

Bell Super for me. Main attraction was the ability to clip on or remove full face and it's bright green assisting with visibility for road users.

Those doing motorcycle speeds should be using motorcycle helmets, not bicycle. They are designed for that level of impact.
Thank you, Lurkin! Your reply got me thinking. My ebike goes about 32 or 33 MPH and a regular bike or skateboard helmet is not designed for that kind of impact. Because of your comment, I'm now looking at motorcycle helmets. Thinking about this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EF8 ... ge_o00_s00 It's still fairly light and not too bulky but it's DOT approved for motorcycle use.
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Re: More noobpidity: What kind of helmet do you wear?

Post by WoodlandHills » Feb 22 2016 4:57pm

Bell Super 2 here as well. I cannot see why one would use a helmet that did not have full face coverage. And I suspect that downhill bike racers, this helmets target market, go a lot faster than 30-35mph and so this product ought to offer sufficient protection.

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Re: More noobpidity: What kind of helmet do you wear?

Post by Lurkin » Feb 22 2016 5:33pm

Put one on and ride uphill on a hot, non windy day. Your head will boil like an egg.

Its really, really hard to breath with a solid, proper full face helmet if the air is not being pushed through to the back of the helmet by the speed you are traveling at. The stronger the fullface, the less air holes, the hotter it becomes. Totally a trade off.

Pretty biased when it comes to helmets, I don't see the point of having one if its not designed for the use specifically. A huge amount of testing including destructive testing in some areas occurs to ensure they will actually work the way they are meant to on impact.

It irks me to the point of facial spasm when I see a decent helment with either aftermarket paint or stickers all over it! Argh!!

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Re: More noobpidity: What kind of helmet do you wear?

Post by WoodlandHills » Feb 22 2016 6:29pm

I don't pedal, I just move my feet: I have an ebike.......... I hike for exercise everyday, I have no desire to to get out of breath on my bike.

The Bell seems to have sufficient airflow in the 80-90 degree days we have been having in the Valley this winter and I haven't noticed any restriction in my ability to breathe when using the face bar.

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Re: More noobpidity: What kind of helmet do you wear?

Post by eSurfer » Feb 22 2016 9:40pm

LOL, good one. Backward is the new frontward.
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Re: More noobpidity: What kind of helmet do you wear?

Post by Chalo » Feb 22 2016 10:29pm

I wear a helmet of pure radiant righteousness given by Jah the Almighty. It works at least as well as the models I have used from Bell, Specialized, and Giro. It weighs a lot less and allows better air circulation, too.
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Re: More noobpidity: What kind of helmet do you wear?

Post by eSurfer » Feb 22 2016 10:37pm

Chalo, YHWH is the best protection ever. Way better than DOT.

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Re: More noobpidity: What kind of helmet do you wear?

Post by Raged » Feb 22 2016 11:12pm

I use a Giro Revel to blend in with the other riders on my cyclocross. Most of the impacts I've had were landing on the top of my head or bouncing off the ground (protect back of the head). I've strangely never fallen face first into the ground... Always flipped over the handlebars. I'm cool like that.
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Re: More noobpidity: What kind of helmet do you wear?

Post by eSurfer » Feb 23 2016 12:20am

WoodlandHills wrote:Bell Super 2 here as well. I cannot see why one would use a helmet that did not have full face coverage. And I suspect that downhill bike racers, this helmets target market, go a lot faster than 30-35mph and so this product ought to offer sufficient protection.
They are good looking helmets too.

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