Enclosed trike / Velomobile dream

swbluto

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May 30, 2008
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I dream of a velomobile / enclosed trike. There's the elements in these areas and biking or triking through snow isn't too fun! But, I don't know where to start.

I've been looking at commercial velomobiles but considering how small the market is, they always seem to be above 3000 dollars and they're typically above 5000! Yikes! Do fairings really cost that much? :shock:

(There's also no model that does what I want) ... So it looks like I'll have to make it myself. But, how would I do so?

Ideally, it should be light but still sturdy enough for higher speed demands so it should be built "sturdy" like a motorcycle. I think I'd be fine with non-highway use so I'd imagine 45 mph might be good enough but, you know, if it can easily go highway speeds, why should I limit myself? :mrgreen: I also want it to be as aerodynamic as practical so as to maximize how much range I can get from an affordable amount of batteries. I also want enough room for a passenger, but to keep it optimized in being aerodynamic, it'd be a back seat right behind the front seat (The back seat would also serve as the cargo area). It'd also be nice if both people could pedal. Also, enough clearance for snow would be nice (a foot or two), but I also want to keep the platform stable so the seats should be low to ground and the two rear wheel should be relatively wide. I don't imagine this would be something I would take on bike paths or sidewalks and, hey, that's why I have my electric scooter or foldable electric bike in the back seat for. I also want "to be seen", and so nice high bars with bright lighting to announce there's a person there would be nice, but it should also be fairly aerodynamic so the frontal area should be small. Also, full suspension would be nice. I think that'd be one spring for the front and two springs for the back? It should also be as light as practical without costing a whole lot (So carbon fiber probably isn't a possibility, but maybe some cheap metal with some sort of fabric would work?) so that I could make it up hills with reasonable speeds. It would also be cool if both people could pedal. In 30 mph traffic, it seems like it would be awesome to travel at that speed with pedal power alone without undue fatigue due to the excellent aerodynamics of a fully faired "recumbent" trike. I calculated the probable effective drag coefficient to be something like 4 times less than a normal biker with lower being possible, and so it'd only take about 200 watts to maintain 30 mph on flat ground and I think I calculated something like 11 wh/mi going 30 mph on motor power alone. That implies it'd take a pretty minimal amount of capacity to get a decent range and so batteries wouldn't cost so flipping much. Heck, at 11 wh/mi, a 48v10ah pack could go something like 40-50 miles on motor power alone! If you pedal at all, you could have outstanding range.

So, any guesstimates on what kind of equipment I would need to finish a project like this? Any ideas as to how much it would probably cost in materials to build the base platform? Any tricks, suggestions, pitfalls, etc. that I should know about? Does anyone else have a dream like this? Could I get this registered as a motorcycle so I could legally maintain higher speeds?

Also, I don't really care about the cabin temperature, I'm just more interested in keeping the cold wind, snow and precipitation out of my face, so a skeleton with some kind of fabric would probably suit me fine for the body. For the viewing areas where there's be windows and a windshield, perhaps some kind of clear plastic? Maybe I'd use something sturdier for the windshield to protect against projectiles, but I do want to keep the weight down. Keeping it down to 100 pounds would be a dream and an initial goal. I absolutely want to keep it under 200 pounds to minimize the motor/controller/battery requirements and costs to maintain reasonable speeds up hills.
 
Zoot Katz said:
swbluto said:
I dream of a velomobile / enclosed trike. . . .
uhhh, Are you still sleeping in your sound proofed box?

I thought someone would insinuate the "coffin with wheels" meme. :mrgreen:

But in defense, the fairing would be removable to make it open to the outside world. But, I'd honestly wouldn't like that for trips where I'm trying to maximizing distance by maximizing energy efficiency or trips where the elements are at play. Trips like traveling to Portland that's around 100 miles away or Vancouver, Canada for instance (Just so I could visit you, of course! :p ).

To respond literally by directly answering, no. My current sleeping quarters aren't large enough to house my box, but I so badly want to erect it. I'm thinking that sound suppression (reduce outside noise by 20 to 30 decibels) + sound masking is the ultimate formula to total control of your aural surroundings while resting.

Does anyone think there'd be problems with strong cross-winds and a low vehicle weight and 65 mph speeds?
 
swbluto,

I want one too, but not with 3 wheels, unless I can pull off leaning wheels. That's because I'm not interested in being low enough so that 3 wheels are stable. Essentially I want a bike I can ride in the rain without getting wet, and that I can take on the road near highway speeds with great efficiency. That means either retractable wheels and/or a way to be able to put my feet down without much harm to weather proofing or aerodynamics.

John
 
John in CR said:
swbluto,

I want one too, but not with 3 wheels, unless I can pull off leaning wheels. That's because I'm not interested in being low enough so that 3 wheels are stable.

That's understandable. If I lived in an area that didn't experience ice or snow, I would be relatively fine with two wheels and I'd probably pursue that route due to the greater market investment (meaning selection and cost advantages) in two wheel transport and the resulting availability of parts and what-not. I'd still be kind of worried about the "death wobble" that seems to affect a few two-wheelers at higher speeds, though.

Anyways, a recumbent style plus a full-fairing is a great way to vastly improve wh/mi. efficiency. A full fairing alone can improve the drag coefficient by 3 times or more over no fairing.
 
I was reading more and discovered that a differential is needed to make two parallel wheel turn at their own rates to make turning smooth and to make handling predictable. Now, I have to wonder, how much do differentials weigh? Seeing as to how they're bulky masses of metal on regular cars, I wonder if there's some way I can eliminate or minimize that weight.

I'm thinking the final vehicle I'll have will have two separate motor/controller/battery systems just for systemic redundancy - in case one drive system has a failure, the other can still drive the unit. But now that I'm seeing this need for a differential, I wonder if there's someway I can have one drive system drive one wheel and the other drive system drive the other wheel and the differential part will be implemented by my own electronics and the two rear wheels would be on separate axles.

Now that brings me full circle, what happens if one drive system fails? Could one side rear wheel propel the whole velomobile without undue difficulty? Or should I have some mechanical link that could link the two shafts/wheel axles together if I needed to and handling during turning can be damned? Or should I somehow make it possible to link both motors to the front wheel just in case one fails and I can switch the drive from back to front? I think having a front wheel drive possible would be advantageous during snowy weather, so I suppose I should look into that. Or perhaps I should just make the two motors drive the front wheel and the rear wheels can have their own axles to permit whatever wheel speeds they "like" best, like during turning, and I won't need to mess with differentials... I think?
 
If you are powering the two side wheels independently, and use brushed motors, you can wire them in series to the same controller, and a differential action will happen "automatically" as you turn, plus you can have a switch to "bypass" either motor should one fail (preferably also bypassing half of your pack at the same time, to cut the system voltage down, or else ensuring that you keep throttle down to about half of what you normally would have used, so as not to burn up the remaining motor).

If both wheels are running from the same drivetrain input, rather than independently powered, it would be possible to make some sort of mechanical linkage to disconnect one from power if something fails but I'm not sure that would really help you get home, depending on what exactly failed and where.


EDIT to add this image:
http://thoxbui.com/shopblog/slides/IMG_0332.html
THis is a delta trike differential simply made of two freewheels, driven by the internally-geared hub in front of it that has two chains to it. The axles on the rear wheels are separate, starting at the freewheels right next to each other. The front chain drives the hub, the hub drives the freewheels. During a turn one wheel is going faster than the other and freewheels while the other continues driving the bike. During coasting both wheels freewheel. Simple, reasonably lightweight. You don't have to use the internally-geared type hub, and can just use a regular hub with a sprocket on each side.


(back to the original post)
As for how to make a fairing, the WISIL and IHPVA sites have quite a lot of ways to do it.

If you're really cheap, like me, you can do one out of some tent poles and lots of 2 or 3 liter soda bottles. Some aluminum strips and crutches for making the bulkhead-shapes to connect to the bike (or trike). I haven't built it yet, but it'd be a more or less canoe-shaped fairing, if I did the full fairing, completely transparent/translucent (depending on the color of the bottles).

Bend, pop-rivet (or screw together or even just zip-tie) the aluminum shape-frames to the bike/trike. Secure the tent poles (those flexible fiberglass sectional types) lengthwise from front to back, to the forms you just attached to the bike.

Cut out the cylindrical sections of the bottles, and sew or staple them together along their edges to make larger sheets of plastic. If you have some old copier or laser printer fusers, you can melt the edges together instead. Cut and shape the resulting sheets as needed to make the shape of the fairing you want.

Secure them in sections to the frame you made from the poles, and to each other.

Make sure you leave a way to get in and out. :)

My first plan for it is only a front partial fairing and a canopy/windscreen, to keep the sun off me and help a little with aerodynamics. If it doesn't disintegrate too easily, I'll add bits until it's fully enclosed, with a little door to get in and out. ;)
 
We use "coreflute" which is used for signs. Its water proof, relatively stiff but can be bent, its available in different colors and thicknesses. Most of all it is cheap. You can buy a 8' by 3' (I think) sheet for under $30 Aus. Can do a complete canopy including floor with two sheets. Our trikes are generally 2.7m by 0.7m ish in size. For the windows we use PET, the same stuff used in Coke bottles.
Energy Breakthrough 117web.jpg

We usually make up a simple frame using 10 or 12mm aluminium to support the coreflute.
eb07 020.jpg
This is because we race for 24hrs with school kids so the canopy takes a bit of a battering. See clip from last year-it made it as far as the second lap of qualifying before this...... :roll:
[youtube]www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ29MFr7pZs[/youtube]
Some people do not use a frame, they just use thick coreflute.
 
All over the US there is great interest in home built velomobiles. I have attended two seminars, and multiple meet ups. They wanted help with the e-motor systems. These folks have real good capabilities for making enclosures to go over trikes.

There is a bunch of these folks that are in Sothern California, Pac NW/vancouver, NY/NJ, and Wisconsin/Illinois.

Wisconsin/Illinois-- WISIL-- even held annual seminars teaching folks to build coroplast (corogated plastic) enclosures. There are folks that sell the special widgets and fittings for the home made enclosures. A Group in Iowa (EIEIO) held annual seminars and had a Degreed Aeronautical designer (Nick Hein) present basics of making streamline enclosures and fairings.

REg Radaro is a professional builder in Canada, he helps folks with design and build issues.

list of builders:
http://www.velomobiles.net/vhn.htm

Some hang out at bent rider on line
http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/index.php

here is one entry from them
http://www.bentrideronline.com/features/necessaryvelo/necessaryvelo1204.htm

You guys that are real handy with mechanicals and such will find this not too difficult. An ez3 tadpole makes an ok Platform. So does the Tricuiser Tadpole.

Nick Hein was big on two wheeled velomobiles and liked the idea of "landing gears" for two wheelers when they stopped.

Anyways, going to bent rider online and googling velomobile and these names will show lots of resources.

One nice things about a velomobile-- the POPO don't know if your were pedaling or not. The v'm only needs emotor help up hills, they require soo little energy on the flat at 25mph.


d
 
coln72 said:
We use "coreflute" which is used for signs. Its water proof, relatively stiff but can be bent, its available in different colors and thicknesses. Most of all it is cheap. You can buy a 8' by 3' (I think) sheet for under $30 Aus. Can do a complete canopy including floor with two sheets. Our trikes are generally 2.7m by 0.7m ish in size. For the windows we use PET, the same stuff used in Coke bottles.
View attachment 1

We usually make up a simple frame using 10 or 12mm aluminium to support the coreflute.

This is because we race for 24hrs with school kids so the canopy takes a bit of a battering. See clip from last year-it made it as far as the second lap of qualifying before this...... :roll:
[youtube]www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ29MFr7pZs[/youtube]
Some people do not use a frame, they just use thick coreflute.

What an informative post! I'll definitely have to look for coreflute in the future. So, now that "skin" of the vehicle has been figured out, what type of metal would be appropriate for minor crashes and highway speeds / motorcycle-like demands for the skeleton?

Here's a repost of the youtube video:

[youtube]dZ29MFr7pZs[/youtube]
 
Ok, just saw the video. I don't plan on taking quick turns at high speeds, but even so, I do plan on making the rear wheel base fairly wide and keeping the center of gravity pretty low (I'm thinking of having some kind of metal frame just extending outwards from the main vehicle for the wheels - Possibly some kind of pipe just to keep the wheel extension relatively aerodynamic) to improve stability. I think using larger wheels where the axle is up a little higher would improve stability, but I'm not sure how large wheels can be practically pushed in size. Hopefully larger than the wheels I see on track velomobiles, but it doesn't even seem like car wheels are *that* much larger.
 
Does anyone think a two-seat streamlined wide-wheel base velomobile could fit in the back of a half-ton pick-up truck? I'm just wondering what I'll do during development when I have seemingly inevitable breakdowns.

Also, the aptera has a drag coefficient of .11. That would be so lovely if I could get below a drag coefficient of .3. The aptera's shape doesn't look *so* much different than a velomobile, so some slight changes looks like it could vastly improve the effective drag coefficient.
 
swbluto,

I'm having a hard time getting past the use of "highway speeds" and "minor crashes" in the same sentence. Empty flat straight road, ok I can see one sliding on its side, because I've seen HPVs do that, but keep in mind they have kevlar in the shell.

My biggest question mark about fairings is side winds, so for me colorplast or similar made of flat panels is out. I want the sides well rounded, kinda like the go-one, though a single wide Aptera shape on 2 wheels + landing gear or an electric version of the monotracer (http://www.monotracer.com/) would be the ideal for me.
 
Hi,

I think a roof with a front to protect from Rain/Snow and Wind plus something underneath to prevent splashes would be sufficient for most uses.

Something like the roof/fairing on the Lorax Hauler:
lorax-hauler.jpg


Much much easier to build than a full body. Should be pretty easy to add something with similar functionality to a KMX Trike for example.

Maybe something combining the coverage of the Lorax but more like this:
ab-te.jpg
 
For me, the ideal is getting the drag coefficient down to something really low so that long-distance and high-speeds aren't so expensive with the batteries. Also, stability is a must for slippery conditions which it doesn't seem like many recumbent trikes have down pat (Although the KMXs look pretty attractive).

However, on the high speeds front, I really don't have a plan for "ramping up" speed testing so I don't really know if I'd actually go highway speeds even if possible. Just having one component come loose at such a speed sounds like a recipe for disaster. But, if some safe testing/development pathway becomes clear, the advantages of some very low drag coefficient velomobile would be very evident for that type of situation. I don't even know if it could be registered as a motorcycle to allow highway testing. Anyways, designing it to be rugged enough for highway use would have added advantages for lower speeds even if never used on the highway. For this velomobile, I'm thinking of motorcycle like ruggedness which makes me question what kind of weights are realistic. I'm starting to think that 200 lbs. may even be a dream number.

As far as minor crashes, I'm thinking of things like someone front turning in front of you and your speed at the point of collision is somewhere around 20 mph. Or, possibly, just the 15 mph behind fender benders. I don't think I'm too worried about side impacts as the likelihood of side impacts are relatively small, and having a narrow body for aerodynamics is kind of an opposing goal. For sure, I don't think "full speed" crashes would be pretty, but I think it'd likely be more pretty than a similar crash on an electric bike/moped or motorcycle, even if just being alive is the prettier part.

And, oh, I didn't think cloroplast would be mutually exclusive to aerodynamic shaping for cross-wind dangerousness. Maybe having them angled should reduce the side-ways drag coefficient (And thus the force exerted by cross-winds)? Although, from observing the general shaping of the aptera, it seemed like it was always designed so the wind-hitting front was round and then the back tapered off into an angled edge.
 
What an informative post! I'll definitely have to look for coreflute in the future. So, now that "skin" of the vehicle has been figured out, what type of metal would be appropriate for minor crashes and highway speeds / motorcycle-like demands for the skeleton?

Thanks for that.
The skeleton of the pictured trike (second pic of the uncovered frame) took a hit into the barriers at approx 50km/h and survived. It bent but I do not mind that as it absorbs some of the impact and makes the riders life a little easier in the crash. Every rider has walked away from a crash that they have been involved in and as you can see in the video, they can hit hard. That skeleton was straightened out and we started the next day. The one lap we done in qualifying, which was started from pit lane so we were not up to race speed, and in the rain, still put us 19th out of 90 plus trikes.

The pedal/petrol hybrid that the school also runs is easily capable of 80km/h plus and runs a full chrome moly skeleton, and has been involved in multiple rollovers with no significant damage. The same skeleton is heading into its third season of racing. And the previous skeleton lasted over six years before it was replaced.

Cloreplast or what ever you guys call it can be bent slightly in one direction and easily in the other direction. So depending on the orientation of the coreflute (I'll call it what I know it as) it can be shaped easily.

For an example of what can be achieved with coreflute, check out these guys
http://www.geocities.com/blueshift04/
 
In the US, it is commonly sold as "Coroplast", or referred to at times as fluted polypropylene, cor-x, corrugated polypro, etc. (Keep it away from open flame, it burns like napalm.)

ES member GeeBee built a coro velo (not fully enclosed) and some others were linked.
 
nutsandvolts said:
swbluto said:
There's the elements in these areas and biking or triking through snow isn't too fun!
The elements really bite over here, especially the wind, but snow piles up like crazy too. I'm not sure three wheels would be very good for snow, but a shield against the wind could literally mean the difference between life and death, or frostbite or not, at certain times around here. This would certainly make the biting cold more tolerable if you could make it through the snow.

How would three wheels be worse than two through snow? I think the main issue would be ground clearance and while it's true that most three wheelers do not have that much, that doesn't mean my own wouldn't. :wink: Also, the worst I'll have to worry about is 3 to 4" or maybe a foot under freak conditions, so it shouldn't take much. I'm kind of wondering if there might be some-way I can manually adjust the ground clearance when higher clearance would be desired, though, just in case. During ordinary weather, I would like to lower clearance for things like cornering to lower the risk of rolling over, but that's not so much of a worry in the winter time when the grip of the road isn't large enough to flip it over and I would be taking corners much more slowly, anyways.

For ordinary biking, a wind-screen or shield would probably make a lot of sense. I personally just wear a winter face mask that keeps the face warm and the wind chill out.

THIS IS NOT MY IMAGE (credits to http://valdodge.com/category/wonderings/).

man-behind-the-mask-2957f.jpg
 
I was planning on 20 kW peak input power with 15 kW continuous. I'm not sure if that qualifies as powerful enough. From my experiences, getting stuck typically meant your tires were in the wrong place when you stopped (From 4-wheel car driving experiences) but I admit I pretty much only drove on graded roads: even my house was on a graded road. Now I live off an ungraded road so this would probably be important.

If clearance has little to do with it, freaking sweet! Now I can just plow through the snow with my electric scooter this winter! :lol: (Just joking - the clearance on that thing IS really way too low. Going through medium height grass is feeble at best, so I know snow wouldn't be much better. I was thinking about hooking up a mini-plow to the front so it can push snow out of the way so I can use it.)
 
MitchJi said:
I think a roof with a front to protect from Rain/Snow and Wind plus something underneath to prevent splashes would be sufficient for most uses.
That's a little like the first idea I had for my soda-bottle/tentpole partial fairing:
Fairing+Concept+Sketch.PNG
This would attach at the front just behind the headtube, so that it covers the front wheel area down to just above the ground (clearance for curbs/bumps) but allows full steering, and at the back of the seat, so it extends a bit behind the rider, too. Since it's curved, rather than a flat roof, it should help more with deflecting air around the vehicle, and shedding the rain/snow/etc instead of letting it pile up at all.

I'd figured I would probably paint the top section right above me, to screen out the midday sun.

I also had considered a zip-up or velcro-attach cloth side panel.

swbluto said:
I'm starting to think that 200 lbs. may even be a dream number.
Well, that CrazyBIke2 of mine was 140-150lbs when I weighed it yesterday (including the tools & stuff I always leave in the cargo pods anyway). That's including 50 pounds of lead bricks, though. :)
 
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