800 dollar e-bike

so after looking round and round, i think i have come to a decision on what is next for me.

i wanted something simple that a beginner can do, also had to be easy on the wallet, yet had a solid base to start from with possibility of upgrading in the future.

i am looking for comfort, with a bit of speed but not much faster than 25. i never leave the pavement unless there is dirt blown across the road! :wink:

since im on a budget, a lot of this is hard to get for little money. here are my selections for an intro do-it-yourself ebike:

kit:
http://www.werelectrified.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BL36+Kit

bike:
http://fisherbikes.com/bike/model/tiburon

there is an LBS in town that carries Gary Fisher bikes, but they are out of town right now for a bike show, so i have to wait a week till they get back to ask a few questions like. what is the front fork made of? From what i can tell on some other models (having a hard time on this model to track it down) i think they are chomoly forks.

rough layout:



i might want to entertain trying to mount the batteries inside the triangle, but i am ok with rack mount if i can not come up with a good way to mount them inside the triangle.

any input, or problems anyone might see, would be greatly appreciated!

thanks!

mikefish said:

..easy on the wallet

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^Start with a used bike. Heck used Ecomponents too if possible. Maybe check out the battery enclosure thread and see if you can manage a diy frame pack, then you could use a rear motor and still have decent weight balance. Free up the rack for cargo too.

vanilla ice said:

mikefish said:

..easy on the wallet

Click to expand...

^Start with a used bike. Heck used Ecomponents too if possible. Maybe check out the battery enclosure thread and see if you can manage a diy frame pack, then you could use a rear motor and still have decent weight balance. Free up the rack for cargo too.

Click to expand...

good points, but i do have some money i can spend, but not a lot. my reason for going with a new bike, is for the reliability of it, warranty, and to plain old get what i want. 700c wheels for less rolling resistance, front suspension, and a suspension seat post.
i know i can add a few of these things on, but for me to get a shop that will stand behind the bike, and have everything im looking for from a bike in one package is worth the extra scratch. plus i know that i will have a good platform to use for a long time.

thanks for the tip about battery enclosure thread, lots of good ideas in there, and i will do the best i can to see what i can come up with before i put the SLAs on the rear rack. i like "boxy but good" (great film by the way)

Your LBS may have a problem with a new bike warranty when they see an electric motor mounted to that new bike. Higher end LBS bikes tend to have aluminum or magnesium forks so bring a magnet with you to check for steel. Also, you will probably find some folks here who would not put a motor on a front suspension fork. I went with a cro-moly fork for that reason.

Ambrose

dude, $800!? just get ampedbikes.com rear kit for $300+. then get a ping 48v15ah $480. that leaves you w/ over $100 for a used bike and hardware. you are all set.. just go do it! we are talking constant smiles afterwards!!

$250 ??, down from $500 ? Thats a good price, and worth some compromises for a starter kit, however...

They also say "out of stock" which tells me that colder weather is coming, and they want to reduce their volume of stock-on-hand for the slow season. My guess is that you will quickly grow to dislike the heavy and high-center-of-gravity 3-SLA battery. And if you use its capacity anywhere near its limits, the whole pack will die a quick death. If you haven't bought this kit at this price already, they may be gone. If you can still get it...snag one immediately.

Check here too, these guys have beem having good deals on a regular basis

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12913

I like the ebikes.ca $240 NiCD triangle pack for a starter kit. You can use 95% of capacity without hurting lifecycle. Lithium is a better deal in the long run (slightly higher price, yet a much longer life) but if purchase price is an issue, you'll save a few bucks over Lithium, plus MUCH better than SLA.

For the bike? Don't cringe, but its a pretty good starter bike to get a Wal-Mart 7-speed beach cruiser. Most people find when they have E-power, they actually use very few gears, and they most want the tall gears to help pedalling at top speed. You may find that 7-gears in the rear ends up being plenty. The front forks are just about guaranteed to be steel (though, please use 2 torque arms for any front mount hub) .

Between the fat 26" tires and a sprung seat-post you shouild have a fairly comfortable ride compared to hitting potholes and curbs on a 700c (even with front suspension, thin tires are prone to rim damage), especially with the modest speeds you are content with. But, as always...life is short, so get what makes you happy. Keep everyone posted, your perspective on the newbie process will be helpful to many others...

wal mart ebikes suck. They are slow and get about 15k per charge. what if something goes wrong, i dont think wal mart services ebikes.

I don't think he meant WallMart "Ebike" Just a WM bike.

mikefish said:

good points, but i do have some money i can spend, but not a lot. my reason for going with a new bike, is for the reliability of it, warranty, and to plain old get what i want. 700c wheels for less rolling resistance, front suspension, and a suspension seat post.

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Couple possible problems here - a 26" wheel may or may not be able to be aligned properly with the brakes from a bike intended for a 700c wheel, definitely something to check. Also, front suspension with a front motor is not generally considered safe - steel (maybe chromoly, def not aluminum) seems to be the consensus on acceptable fork materials. Excuse me if I misread you on these points.

oh, one thing i forgot to mention, i know the website is out of 26" rims. but i want 700c, and those are still available.

i believe the front fork is Chromoly, but i will be confirming that with the LBS. if it is not, I dont think they would mind much to swap it for a heavy (less expensive) steel fork.

jetguy said:

dude, $800!? just get ampedbikes.com rear kit for $300+. then get a ping 48v15ah $480. that leaves you w/ over $100 for a used bike and hardware. you are all set.. just go do it! we are talking constant smiles afterwards!!

Click to expand...

the wheel for this would be near $400+ tax, the $480 for the battery you mentioned. So $880 plus I would still have to find a bike. So you option comes in around $1000 dollars. what i have selected is with shipping and tax, and actually comes to $727 dollars (bike and kit), and that is if i have to pay MSRP on the bike. If not, my total could be lower still! I just titled it 800 dollar e-bike because i figure there will be something i will need to buy before its all said and done that will bring it up to that..you know...the unforeseen :wink:

Cheap bikes, Police auctions

Get the motor kit from High tech bikes insteat of WE. Same motor, WAAAAAY better customer service. Mention that you are an ES member and you might get free shipping, which can be $100 from We r electrified.

Some of the low end, but quality brand bikes like giant, trek, GF, etc have a steel suspension fork that is better quality than those found on the wallbike. I'm doing fine with 4000 miles on my wallbike, but I did immediately replace the handlebars, seat, seatpost and cranks. In other words, for the wallbike opiton, all you need is the frame. :lol: But for me it was a cheap way to get full suspension to keep my destroyed back happy.

You might be able to get a good fs bike at a used bike shop. My town has one, but no yellow pages listing. Got a bike with 5 inch suspension for $300 there. It might involve waiting though.

There are a few people who have made front suspension motors work sucessfully. Those were either capable engineers with good metalworking skills and access to metal cutting and welding equipment, or people like Dogman who used Walmart mikes with theit less responsive but more suitable steel suspension forks.
Those people who don't make it work successfuly get hurt. the risk is losing your front wheel at speed, and that kind of wreck involves face plants into the street.

I would only recomend trying a front wheel motor with suspension if you have 100% confidence in your mechanical skills.

e-bikekit.com sells a great kit. $340 for the kit without the battery.

You might check craigslist . I've seen some high end mt. bikes for 3 to 400 bucks . These guys are right on about not needing so many gears once you electrify, Also putting the nicad pack in the triangle will be much better for handling.

mikefish said:

my reason for going with a new bike, is for the reliability of it, warranty, and to plain old get what i want.

Click to expand...

You asked for tips so you're gettin em! You are of course free to ignore them.. I admit shiny new things are neato sometimes. Keep in mind front suspension 700c hybrids don't seem to have as good resale value as sport roadie bikes, there is opportunity to take advantage of that fact. Anyway, once you go E the 700c thing may not be a significant advantage IMO, don't discount a good 26" tire bike should you come across a good deal on one.

oh, i am welcoming the feedback! thanks all!

im not too concerned about resale on these items, i dont live in an area that would give a damn about any of this stuff really.

so once i buy any of this stuff, im going to run it til it cant be fixed, or i at least get my money's worth from it.

wanted the nice bike due to the fact that i do have a Walmart bike now, and it is junk. Im sick of having to fix it all the time.

The kit I picked was due to price. Im not a 700c wheel snob, I really dont have anything against the 26" rim. I just wanted to try a wheel that was more suited to what i need it for, and see if it helps out with top speed, and perhaps even help with extending the life of the batteries. besides, the site is out of 26 inch wheels, so i cant get one of those!

as mentioned before, by ambroseliao, he went with a Chromoly front fork. I believe the bike i am looking at has this type of fork, and i will double check with my LBS before purchasing anything. if it does not have chromoly forks, i would be willing to bet the bike shop could help get me the steel fork no problem.

spinningmagnets...i also plan on putting 2 torque arms on the front as well! thanks!

Chromolly,,, and bolt on hub. Don't be doing the Quick release forks with a hub motor "Lunge of death".

Poor fit of the hubmotors washers = washers bend, nuts get loose, motor spins out, wires get cut, controller gets fried, and that's not even getting into your trip to the hospital. Sorry if this sounds strident and harsh, but this is no joke buddy.

Just to be clear...I do NOT recommend a front hub. I am of the school that rear hub or non-hub is best, however...

If someone wants one, I try to push double torque arms, steel fork, low power...When someone is talking about a budget, the question often comes up, "what do I get initially, even though I may likely want to upgrade something later"?

You can never get your money back on a new bike, you will take a price hit whether its a good bike or a cheap Wal-Mart bike. I recommend getting a used bike. Thrift store/police auction/Craigslist, and you only need to get something close to what you like. You will quickly develop an opinion about every aspect of the bike, and E-kit.

If you buy a bike from Craigslist for $50, there's a good chance you may be able to sell it later for near $50, once you know more about what you would like in a long-term bike.

SLA batteries are heavy, bulky, and will remain the cheapest starter kit battery. 36V will be heavy, and 48V will be worse. Almost everyone who upgrades to NiCD or lithium says "had I known how much better it was, I would've done this long ago". Lithium better in the long run, NiCD cheaper for a starter kit, but still a very good choice.

As far as an affordable kit, I've heard good things about http://ampedbikes.com/ (must use 48V to get 25-MPH) and also http://www.e-bikekit.com/ I wish you luck.

Well thanks all for the reply's. i have been thinking about it, and realized that perhaps i should save a bit more, and get something a bit safer. it also happens, that my already bad knee has gotten worse, and with more clicking from it, and a few pain twangs, i have to go to the Orhto surgeon today to see what is wrong with it.

so, the bright side is that it looks like i will have more time to think about what kit, and bike i want to put together!

but i have been scared away from front hub with suspension fork for now.

thanks again to all who had input, it looks like i was going to build a bike that was most likely going to put me on the ground some day in a painful way. once i get reconfigured and regroup, i will post with the next choice!

Take your chance on bidding on ebay, or better go to someone as ebike-kit.com, I have front hub and i fitted it with care.
500W, 36V with lifepro battery. No problems. 300 for hub at ebike, (discontinued hub) 325 battery win on ebay. again from ebike.

I hope you get good news from your surgeon. When I started bicycling again recently, I found that my right knee started hurting as it did when I quit 15 years ago. Backing off from taking off rapidly from stop lights and letting the motor do a bit more has eliminated the problem. I've also stepped up to 48V which minimizes how much I have to pedal.

Take care and get back in touch. We will be here!

Ambrose

Hope your knee heals ok, but it can take awhile. I did some minor damage to my knee last spring, pedaling too hard in too high a gear in the mountains. I kept riding the ebike though, and soon found the more I rode with the motor the better it felt. It was stuff like getting up out of a chair or car that was hard, and stoop labor at work really didn't help. But the spinning was great therapy for my injury, keeping moving while healing is what all the top athletes do.

Anyway, maybe an ebike could also become some of your rehab. The low impact and not having to push hard on the pedals really helped me keep from healing all full of adhesions. A rear crystalyte 408 is a good first motor, and not that costly. Ebikes.ca of course to get one.

Thanks for the well wishes all!

So far my Doctor tells me I have a torn meniscus, and fluid in my knee.

A have an MRI coming up to get all the details of the extent of the damage, and then we go from there!

I asked him about my biking, and if i will have to stop. He said biking and swimming are the top recommended exercises for bad knees, and recovery.

more to come after my MRI

Hey mikefish, sorry to hear about your knee.

One idea I've been considering, and which most folks I've talked to seem to think is safe, is to use a "springer" suspension fork, which appear to come in 2 flavors:

Triple Tree:


"Bent" (for lack of a better term):



The Bent variety are cheap and common, I think most of them are chromed steel, so strength shouldn't be an issue. I see 26" bikes equipped with these on Craigslist for $50 sometimes, the fork itself brand new might cost $60.

I haven't seen many of the Triple Tree springers (although non-suspension trip-trees are common and well-suited to a front hub, if they are well built), but I really like them, and am seriously considering replacing the fork on my bike (in my profile pic) with a set.

So if front suspension is something you really want, these might be options to consider. Good luck!

that second fork, the one you called the "bent" wouldn't work.
I have one. when you hit a bump the wheel moves forward and up, such is the nature of the type. It pivots around on the arms. If you grab the front wheel you can pull it forward. And if it had the drive motor pulling the bike forward from it...
Its why, for the most part, they don't put brakes on that style of springer fork. Apply the brakes, and the wheel would get shoved back and down.