Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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Re: Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Post by kdog » Dec 05 2015 10:26pm

I set my throttle to output 250w on my CA. Ground to a halt not 15 mts from my driveway. Ha ha 250w is a joke whatever bent you put on it. Yep sure 250w on the flat with a tail wind is capable of a decent speed... So is 50w, actually so is ZEROw! I could roll at 40pkh on the flat with a strong tail wind and some baggy clothes on my roadie with 120psi in the tyres. I can't remeber ever feeling 200w pull hard up a hill at 10kph ( who wants to go 10kph- it'd take ,like,an hour to do 10k :cry: ) my e bike is to pull a kid up hills (think 1500w) at around 30 so I can get home in a reasonable time. Or to blast 30-40ks to work and back. I've been a cyclist all my life but now with a family it's too slow to pedal carrying a load. I'm fit and strong, the general populace is nowhere near as active as myself. If we are ever to get these pooches out of their cars then I'd say 500w continuous would be appropriate. Then we can all run 500w motors and actually get somewhere.
Plus I'd be interested in an intermediate class say 500-3kw, maybe with some red tape ( but not too much 8) )
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Re: Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Post by cj7hawk » Dec 06 2015 1:26am

Or maybe they could just make all mopeds and 50cc motorcycles legal without a license, which is pretty much what you're asking. Personally, I think this is a good idea - as overpowered bicycles seem to be causing a problem on the footpaths. Though it would be nice if they could simply set a speed limit as opposed to a power limit for electric bicycles.

BTW, Both Mopeds and 50cc motorcycles are in the same class as a throttle-based 250w bicycle anyway - They are all illegal in Tasmania.

Only sub-200W throttle bicycles are legal in Tasmania.

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Re: Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Post by Sunder » Dec 06 2015 3:36am

Having been a motorcycle rider for several years, and seeing how lightly some of my erstwhile companions treated their residency on earth, the last thing we need is untrained riders on vehicles fsst eough to get them into trouble, but not fsst enough to get them out of it.
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Re: Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Post by cj7hawk » Dec 06 2015 3:46am

Sunder wrote:Having been a motorcycle rider for several years, and seeing how lightly some of my erstwhile companions treated their residency on earth, the last thing we need is untrained riders on vehicles fsst eough to get them into trouble, but not fsst enough to get them out of it.
I'm not sure if you mean mopeds are too slow, or are suggesting bicycles shouldn't be too fast? What kind of speed do you think would be suitable for a powered bike?

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Re: Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Post by zener » Dec 06 2015 3:54am

cj7hawk wrote:
Sunder wrote:Having been a motorcycle rider for several years, and seeing how lightly some of my erstwhile companions treated their residency on earth, the last thing we need is untrained riders on vehicles fsst eough to get them into trouble, but not fsst enough to get them out of it.
I'm not sure if you mean mopeds are too slow, or are suggesting bicycles shouldn't be too fast? What kind of speed do you think would be suitable for a powered bike?

If u ask me.

I would limit EVERY VEHICLE on public roads to 100km/h.
Fatalities would drop by 50% (wild guess...) :mrgreen:

If wanna have speed rush go to race track!!!

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Re: Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Post by kdog » Dec 06 2015 4:45am

Don't see too many high powered bikes here generally (there are a few),let alone on the footpath, but I agree the footpath is not the place... Who'd want to anyway. I'm not going to get into it too thoroughly, but the moped idea is attractive. Something like, need pedals, adult, have a license, be restricted to roads and road rules with a power limit say (wild guess3kw) and maybe a speed limit (another wild guess) say...60. Most people are sensible the ones who aren't get busted, just like a in a car. Fines get transferred to your car like in a boat.
Now this presents a realistic transport option to move people around outside of a car, in the time frames we are used to (or hope for) in a car, hills/load or not.
This will go the way of thewater tanks in cities situation a few years back (like 10)... it was against the law for ages then the drought hit and low and behold it was somehow OK again. 6mth wait on a flipping water tank! Laughable now, wait until petrol is $3/ltr not so funny then.
My motive is to get people out of ICE cars, into EVs of any sort, the easier, the better.

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Re: Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Post by Sunder » Dec 06 2015 5:52am

cj7hawk wrote: I'm not sure if you mean mopeds are too slow, or are suggesting bicycles shouldn't be too fast? What kind of speed do you think would be suitable for a powered bike?
If they're sharing space with a traditional cyclist ~30km/h.

If they're sharing space with a car, at least 110km/h with the ability to do 60-100km/h in say, sub 3 seconds? Enough to have the choice between braking and accelerating out of danger. Bikes have the disadvantage that they take longer to brake than a good car if you don't want to high side it. So they also need the option to cut into the next lane and accelerate hard enough to not get rear ended by whatever else was in that lane.
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Re: Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Post by Modbikemax » Dec 07 2015 6:20pm

Sunder wrote:
cj7hawk wrote:
If they're sharing space with a traditional cyclist ~30km/h.

If they're sharing space with a car, at least 110km/h with the ability to do 60-100km/h in say,
There are no enforced speed limits on bike tracks, at least around here, and at 30kph many of the boys in Lycra will be rounding you up.

Speed limits are just that, limits, not a minimum requirement. I think motorists often forget that. For example Licenced scooters are struggling to do 60kph and are part of the road scape too.

It seems to me the speed limits are too high in built up areas to comfortably accomodate all road users and need to be re evaluated. Probably not a vote winner though.

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Re: Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Post by Sunder » Dec 07 2015 8:10pm

Modbikemax wrote:There are no enforced speed limits on bike tracks, at least around here, and at 30kph many of the boys in Lycra will be rounding you up.

Speed limits are just that, limits, not a minimum requirement. I think motorists often forget that. For example Licenced scooters are struggling to do 60kph and are part of the road scape too.

It seems to me the speed limits are too high in built up areas to comfortably accomodate all road users and need to be re evaluated. Probably not a vote winner though.
I wasn't talking about speed limits. I was talking about what speed was appropriate for each environment. What started this conversation, indeed was that it was my opinion that Mopeds (Scooters) are too slow for the road. But I was also saying that they're too fast to allow people to ride them unlicensed (Implying untrained).

By the way, while there aren't any enforced speed limits, in NSW at least, you can be charged with reckless riding. It's also a strict liability offense, which essentially means the policeman doesn't need to prove negligence or intent to be reckless, only that in his opinion, you weren't exercising reck.
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Re: Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Post by Modbikemax » Dec 08 2015 6:58am

Sunder wrote:
I wasn't talking about speed limits. I was talking about what speed was appropriate for each environment. What started this conversation, indeed was that it was my opinion that Mopeds (Scooters) are too slow for the road.
I understand you are offering your opinion, I was offering mine.

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Re: Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Post by kdog » Dec 25 2015 6:33am

Has anyone heard about this new law nsw gov is trying to pass... That all adult cyclists must carry a gov issue ID whilst riding a bike. Can get fined without it etc.
WTF!!!
I mean have they gone nuts? This is munted in the head on sooo many levels. I sort of can't actually believe it has been proposed....God I hope it fails dismally.

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Re: Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Post by Cowardlyduck » Dec 25 2015 6:43am

What we all really need is the price of oil to skyrocket.
Then I imagine no more imposing law's will be proposed/passed on cyclists. Cycling infrastructure will dramatically be improved, and maintained.
And they might even get rid of the draconian E-Bike laws.

We can only dream.

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Re: Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Post by Eskimo » Dec 25 2015 7:23am

Here 1000W and throttle is legal now without any registration or license, and right to ride everywhere too, except off-road. To be honest nobody believed it would be passed but it did. It is a miracle.
I do feel bit sorry for all those guys here now that just bought shiny, expensive Bosch etc 250W mid-drive bike. Now we went to 1000W max and their bike looks not so shiny anymore.
They paid 4000 euros for it and now some 400 euro 1kw kitbike does figure eights around it. I guess sales of 250W bikes will pretty much die here now. Who is gonna buy a used 2015 Bosch KTM now? Maybe some people still do. If you go 1kw your choice is pretty much limited. It"s DD or the new Bafang 1kw.
Many negative mamils have gone so silent suddenly. A year ago it was 250W! it"s way more than i would need! What would happen if people would have more? It would be dangerous! blaa blaa blaa. Now it"s like You got 500W? I just bought 1kw motor for my kickbike.
I think law will get more liberal over there too soon.
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Re: Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Post by Sunder » Dec 25 2015 7:42pm

kdog wrote:Has anyone heard about this new law nsw gov is trying to pass... That all adult cyclists must carry a gov issue ID whilst riding a bike. Can get fined without it etc.
WTF!!!
I mean have they gone nuts? This is munted in the head on sooo many levels. I sort of can't actually believe it has been proposed....God I hope it fails dismally.
Funny thing is, I always carry ID with me when riding anyway. If I get hit, I want police to be able to identify me quickly, in case I can't identify myself. Not only will doctors be able to get my medical history immediately, but my wife can get notified quickly.

The penalty for running a red now has gone from token to ridiculous though.
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Re: Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Post by Modbikemax » Dec 30 2015 6:37am

Sunder wrote:
kdog wrote:Has anyone heard about this new law nsw gov is trying to pass... That all adult cyclists must carry a gov issue ID whilst riding a bike. Can get fined without it etc.
WTF!!!
I mean have they gone nuts? This is munted in the head on sooo many levels. I sort of can't actually believe it has been proposed....God I hope it fails dismally.
Funny thing is, I always carry ID with me when riding anyway. If I get hit, I want police to be able to identify me quickly, in case I can't identify myself. Not only will doctors be able to get my medical history immediately, but my wife can get notified quickly.

The penalty for running a red now has gone from token to ridiculous though.
You don't see "Munted" in a thread anymore! Could be the chorus in a song. :lol:
Seriously ID is not a bad idea but like helmet laws the cops really have got better things to do. Fining people never works, I see people running red lights and stop signs everyday and the threat of fines don't stop them. (My shop is opposite a busy intersection). What you need is to make wearing helmets, caring ID and stoping at red lights cool. Like piercings and tattoos now they are cool everyone wants one.

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Re: Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Post by Eskimo » Jan 06 2016 2:28am

Now we have a slightly confusing situation here, because the new law requires a some kind of 50 euro insurance if you want to use 1kw. No registration or licence is required, just insurance.
Law came to force a week ago but insurance companies do not yet have a slightest clue what it is. I have heard too that it does not come with insurance plate, which is partly disappointing.
There is also some hilarious details in that law that our press has made some fun of. Example insurance is not required if you remove the pedals. Which is why people already call the new law as a "pedal tax" :) Without pedals your bike goes under the "Segway" law. Law definitely does not encourage people to pedal. Which is funny because just a few weeks ago the old law made such a noise about the pedaling. So now all the Segways, hoverboards, unicycles, motorized kickbikes, and what have you are legal under 1kw, and only vehicle that requires a insurance is the electric bicycle with pedals if it has more than 250W.
Sorry this slight OT with my broken english but i thought some people out there might be interested how things are developing globally.
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Re: Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Post by whatever » Jan 12 2016 4:57am

Thanks for informing us of the new laws in europe ( ?), since Australian Govt has followed EU regulations, I think due to the power limits being quite low, I'm not sure if Australian Govt will follow suit, it took them literally decades to decide to copy the EU regulations ( its called plagarism at school). I would think unlikely they will quickly change to the new EU regulations, maybe in another couple of decades. Do you have any links for details of the new regulations, do they have a name/number to search for?

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Re: Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Post by Eskimo » Jan 12 2016 9:19am

whatever wrote:Thanks for informing us of the new laws in europe ( ?), since Australian Govt has followed EU regulations, I think due to the power limits being quite low, I'm not sure if Australian Govt will follow suit, it took them literally decades to decide to copy the EU regulations ( its called plagarism at school). I would think unlikely they will quickly change to the new EU regulations, maybe in another couple of decades. Do you have any links for details of the new regulations, do they have a name/number to search for?
There are some links but EU is not one country. Far from it. Like USA, there are differences between the states according to our laws. EU (our Fed) gives a guideline, and independent states then follow that throughoutly or make their own special laws. Here is one pic in Finnish, and one English link:

https://www.raivereniging.nl/ecm/?id=wo ... 670f4a0e43
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Re: Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Post by whatever » Jan 13 2016 7:17am

thanks very much for that info, the eu regulation was called EN 15194, I assume the new regulation has a similar code/number.

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Re: Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Post by Sunder » Jan 17 2016 4:00pm

kdog wrote:Has anyone heard about this new law nsw gov is trying to pass... That all adult cyclists must carry a gov issue ID whilst riding a bike. Can get fined without it etc.
WTF!!!
I mean have they gone nuts? This is munted in the head on sooo many levels. I sort of can't actually believe it has been proposed....God I hope it fails dismally.
This in the Sydney Morning Herald this morning:
The identity of a jogger remains a mystery after he was struck by a car and left in a critical condition on Sunday afternoon.
He remained in a coma with serious head injuries on Monday morning, after he was hit by a car while trying to cross a main road at Punchbowl.
Police say they believe the man was running at the time and have no idea who he is because he was not carrying any identification

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/mystery-jogge ... z3xXOJ1W3z
Anyone still think it's a good idea to not carry ID when exercising? What if he had allergies or reactions to any medication they needed to give him?
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Re: Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Post by Melbourne » Jan 18 2016 2:14am

hi guys

Please dont hoon around in public place like this... we all going to get into troubles with this behavior...vic bike cops going to crack down on all ebikes and start check 350w restriction...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjbLEGLjtWA
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Re: Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Post by TheBeastie » Jan 18 2016 5:16am

Melbourne wrote:hi guys

Please dont hoon around in public place like this... we all going to get into troubles with this behavior...vic bike cops going to crack down on all ebikes and start check 350w restriction...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjbLEGLjtWA
I saw a guy scream past on one of those monkey ICE bikes the other day, I guess because they know they are doing the wrong thing they feel they are better off going extra fast...

Yeah I ride through those areas all the time and a lot of the specific places that guy rode his stealth bike have "No Bicycles" signs at their entry let alone a high power stealth ebike..
Here is some footage of me riding on a much slower boring bike at a much slower speed on a much duller day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEquEK_amTY

Inner Melbourne can be a complicated place to ride a bike for example this spot here I had some one stand right in front of me and stretch their arms out and stop me riding there while virtually standing on top of the bicycle sign painted on the footpath and sign on the light post yelling and screaming at me to get off the foot path.. When I pointed to the sign he was standing on he yelled back that its just meant to be on the side of the road and he said it like he truly believed it...
https://youtu.be/IEquEK_amTY?t=789
About 100 meters up I had a guy grab my helmet and try and pull it off my head saying I am doing the wrong thing, I am never in a hurry all I think about is taking my time and trying to stay out of the way of everyone, you can't win..

Riding around inner Melbourne I have noticed a few cops look and kind of have this deeply frustrating seething hate looking stare at my frame battery bag area as I slowly go past, its just creepy.
One time I had my ebike locked up on the footpath sign post while I was just sitting inside a coffee shop window just meters away from the bike and these two cops who were just walking up the foot path stopped and then slowly circled my bike looking at my ebike carefully on foot like it was stashed full of 100kilos of heroin or something then walk off....
I don't know what other ebikers are doing to get cops attention but they most certainly don't seem to be impressed.
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Re: Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Post by Cephalotus » Jan 21 2016 4:21am

Eskimo wrote:Here 1000W and throttle is legal now without any registration or license, and right to ride everywhere too, except off-road.
Interesting. Is there a speed limit for motor assist?
I do feel bit sorry for all those guys here now that just bought shiny, expensive Bosch etc 250W mid-drive bike. Now we went to 1000W max and their bike looks not so shiny anymore.
They paid 4000 euros for it and now some 400 euro 1kw kitbike does figure eights around it...
If you have a battery with 500Wh of usable energy a motor with 1000W of consumption will run for 30 minutes. After that you have a heavy bike that is not fun to pedal home.

The BionX 48V system uses a 30A controller, so no matter the 250W sticker it's a 1300W system in the EU. Bosch forced them out of the market, there is not a single manufacturer left that uses the BionX system in Germany.

(And I', a big fanboy of BionX, I now own around 10 BionX motors (they are cheap as dirt over here in the used market), I have four bikes that are (at least temoparely) equipped with BionX motors, including one street legal 45km/h BionX bike)

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Re: Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Post by SaladFish » Feb 12 2016 12:43am

This is a big problem.

If you have a 36 volt motor and use the controller to limit it to 5 amp you have 180watt. Legal.

If you have a 36 volt battery with 5 amp. You have 180 watt for an hour capacity. Pretty low but legal.

If you use the controller to change the current draw from 5 to 50 amp you can have 1800 watt for 6 minutes (or until the battery, motor fails, you hit a wall).

This mean's that just about any "200w" ebike is illegal and will put your fate in the hands of a police man or judge.

It is not a good state of affairs but no one will fix it so ebikes will remain outlaw vehicles.

Edit: Just as I posted this a guy on a petrol powered mountain bike rode by my house.

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Re: Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

Post by AF7JA » Feb 12 2016 8:18am

Cowardlyduck wrote:What we all really need is the price of oil to skyrocket.
Then I imagine no more imposing law's will be proposed/passed on cyclists. Cycling infrastructure will dramatically be improved, and maintained.
And they might even get rid of the draconian E-Bike laws.

We can only dream.

Cheers
That is not what will happen if/when oil prices rise again. Instead the majority, autoists, will resent the cyclists for getting something for free, and will push for even more draconian laws in order to 'get even.'

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